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Hollywood Studios, Movie Rentals, and Idiocy (Page 3)
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Uncle Skeleton
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Jan 31, 2012, 07:11 PM
 
It's the same as taping the movie from cable tv. You paid for the content, you just want to watch it a little bit later, maybe on another format, like a mobile device or on the plane, where you're not in a position to return the disc on time even though you're finished watching the content. The industry made a big stink about VCRs too because you could keep the recording and watch it again and again, but the fact is it was still fair use as long as you didn't pass it around to other people. I don't upload my rips, and I did pay Netflix for the right to watch them.

I would rip streaming titles for use on the plane, if there was a way to do it. And I wouldn't feel bad about it either. The MPAA shouldn't get more money for the same movie just because I want to watch it on the airplane (on my own hardware) instead of in a room that gets internet.
     
OAW  (op)
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Jan 31, 2012, 07:26 PM
 
^^^^^^^

QFT.

And some more musings on the idiocy of Hollywood studios ....

- Why can you rent a DISC for $1/day from Redbox ... $3-4/3-4 days from Blockbuster .... but if you rent it STREAMING from iTunes, Amazon, Blockbuster, or Vudu they charge $4+ for a 24 hour rental?

- Why are SUBTITLES a hit or miss proposition at best on streaming movies?

- Why are Hollywood studios STILL propping up bankrupt Blockbuster by giving them access to new releases the day they come out ... but strong arming growing operations like Redbox and Netflix to wait 2 months? Oh and did I mention that I no longer have any Blockbuster locations within 10 miles of my home? Just a few years ago there were 3. So these idiot studio execs cater to the retail distributor that consumers are abandoning in droves ... and give the retail distributors they are flocking to a hard time. Brilliant business strategy right there.

OAW
     
Athens
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Feb 1, 2012, 05:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
That isn't fair use. You're renting a movie then copying it to your computer. That's stealing.

If you were to buy the DVD and then copy it to your computer, that would be an example of fair use.
And if he wanted to watch the rental 2 weeks from now and not today, and only watched it once before deleting, is that stealing or fair sue.

What if the movie he downloaded instead that was on TV the night before and missed it and decided to download it watch it and delete it. Fair use or stealing.

I really like this take on it

Angry Birds boss: 'Piracy may not be a bad thing: it can get us more business' | Technology | guardian.co.uk

Angry Birds Boss Credits Piracy For Popularity Boost - Slashdot
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Athens
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Feb 1, 2012, 05:14 PM
 
As far as I am concerned the only real solution is a single purchase license to any and all content. Then a separate purchase or use of media that provides the content. How it would work. I pay the studio $10.00 for a license to iRobot. There im now legal to watch this content as often as I want. Now my choices for media can be through sharing systems like Torrents if I don't care about extra content, quality and bandwidth. I can buy a physical DVD disc from a seller who just verifies the license and that can be anywhere from $2.00 to higher (im sure the market would make it something really low through competition though so even $2.00 for a DVD might be high. I can pay a digital distributor for a full quality version of it like iTunes or any of the hundreds of sites that would pop up. Again the market would set the price through competition. I can freely rip that DVD to all my devices if I so choose. I could download the content free from a site that makes its money from advertising. It would all come down to plugging in the license key and getting the media how ever which way I wanted, free or to pay.

Under such a model if my DVD gets wreaked I do not have to pay full price to replace it. And tons of different ad based services could spring up to give me all kinds of options for watching the content, or even paid services. And because the viewing license is bought directly from the publisher, all these different content methods for delivery would not have to pay anything to them because the license of the viewer buying or using the provided media has already paid.

But this is a idealistic solution that would never fly. What sucks is for people who bought a album on record that had to then buy it on Tape that then had to buy it on CD just to keep up with format changes for the very same content.
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olePigeon
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Feb 1, 2012, 05:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
And it WAS fair use until the DCMA. Copying the movie is NOT illegal. Still isn't. It's "cracking" the f*cking encryption. That's all bullshit.
No, the law only applied to movies that you own. You're allowed to make backups of your DVDs, not someone else's.
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Spheric Harlot
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Feb 1, 2012, 06:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
And if he wanted to watch the rental 2 weeks from now and not today, and only watched it once before deleting, is that stealing or fair sue.
Technically, it's stealing, and thus a fair sue.

But really, nobody would care to enforce that.
     
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Feb 21, 2012, 04:13 PM
 
     
sek929
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Feb 21, 2012, 04:32 PM
 
The obvious (and entirely ridiculous) solution to that problem is spending hundreds of dollars a month on a dozen entertainment providers to get that one show you would like to watch once and a while.

An easier (and cheaper) endeavor for a studio like HBO (or anyone else) to embark on would be allowing people to subscribe directly to HBO for their content, instead of lobbying congress, suing people, and generally whining about not being paid for their intellectual property. Put the entirety of GoT (or anything else for that matter) up for download/streaming for a reasonable fee and BAM! you've got my money.

What I will not do is pay 60 bucks a month for regular cable (with about 99% crap I don't watch) and upgrade my cable package for another 30 bucks a month to watch one show on one premium channel. That is akin to paying for dinner for 100 girls when only one is attractive enough to sleep with.
     
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Feb 21, 2012, 04:34 PM
 
I guarantee you if HBO tried to offer a direct online streaming option cable companies would revolt.
     
sek929
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Feb 21, 2012, 04:45 PM
 
True that. How else would they shovel 1000 channels of garbage down your gullet if you were able to pay for what you want?

Alls I know is this.

Nearly everyone in my age group, that I know of, does not have a cable subscription. Almost all of them have Netflix and Hulu, and also almost all of them pirate whatever else isn't offered via a reasonable price.
     
ort888
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Feb 21, 2012, 04:46 PM
 
While I agree with the overall message of that Oatmeal cartoon, I do think it's being a little unfair. Game of Thrones doesn't officially come out for home release until March 6th. On that date, you will be able to get it from iTunes and other places, as well as buy or rent the DVD from any traditional place.

I get that the show is like a year old, and that it's absolutely ridiculous that the studios make us jump through hoops to get content... but at the same time... are we so spoiled that we simply expect everything instantaneously and super cheap? It's not like having to wait for content is some sort of new phenomenon. HBO waited to release it for a reason. It's their show and they can do what they want. The world does not owe you Game of Thrones right now.

... all that said, these guys do need to pull their heads out of their ass and realize that they are competing with something ad-free, instantaneous and free... and something that's not going away. Adapt or die.
( Last edited by ort888; Feb 21, 2012 at 05:16 PM. )

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OAW  (op)
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Feb 21, 2012, 05:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
While I agree with the overall message of that Oatmeal cartoon, I do think it's being a little unfair. Game of Thrones doesn't officially come out for home release until March 6th. On that date, you will be able to get it from iTunes and other places, as well as buy or rent the DVD from any traditional place.
Unless of course you try to rent from Netflix or RedBox ... and then you have to wait until 56 days after March 6th.

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sek929
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Feb 21, 2012, 05:06 PM
 
All very good points. I think that technology in general has made our entire culture incredibly impatient, but that's something created by the very companies that now want us to jump through hoops, or wait. Cable providers got us used to high-speed internet, and now want us to pay for things we don't intend to watch. They have to understand that the habits of media consumers in this country are changed forever, there is no going back to the 80s.

Those among us who are tech-savvy enough are baffled that a company like HBO remains shackled to delivering its content in archaic ways, when there is plenty of money to be made, most likely MORE money to be made adopting the "I want it NOW!" nature of our instant-gratification culture.

Look at iTunes, and Pandora, and Spotify (Love spotify). I haven't pirated music in god knows how long because the industry finally got its head out of its ass (or was forced to remove head from ass) and gave people what they wanted. As far as I can tell the music industry hasn't died off yet.

With the current model HBO uses, and the current way I consume media there is either piracy or never watching the show. They will never add anything to HULU or Netflix, they will never offer direct downloads/streaming of their show, and I do not buy things on disc anymore. So it's tough titties, I will never get to enjoy a fine HBO series for a reasonable price because I am a consumer in the new age. I guess you could say that I'm in the minority, and I probably am, but that minority is growing rapidly I think.
     
ort888
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Feb 21, 2012, 05:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
Unless of course you try to rent from Netflix or RedBox ... and then you have to wait until 56 days after March 6th.

OAW
I don't think HBO has a waiting period on Netflix... I think they instead choose to make Netflix pay full retail price for their discs. (I could be wrong.)

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Uncle Skeleton
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Feb 21, 2012, 06:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
While I agree with the overall message of that Oatmeal cartoon, I do think it's being a little unfair. Game of Thrones doesn't officially come out for home release until March 6th.
I beg to differ, the H in HBO tells me that it came out for home release last year, and in fact that's exactly how the pirates got ahold of it

My criticism of the cartoon is that I suspect you could upgrade to HBO for 1 month for about $20 and then once you're a subscriber (even if you don't even own a TV) you could watch the whole GoT series on HBO's website (or comcast's), then cancel HBO mid-month and probably get half your upgrade cost back. But I haven't tried this, so who knows what unexpected errors there would be.
     
ort888
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Feb 21, 2012, 06:42 PM
 
You can't upgrade to HBO for a month if you don't have cable.

HBO should let people subscribe to watch online, cutting out the cable companies... but I'm sure they are not allowed to to do that.

The bottom line is that all of these entertainment providers have business models that have made them a lot of money for a long time, and they are desperately clinging to them, even though the world and customer expectations are changing around them.

That doesn't really excuse stealing, but damn if they don't make it tempting. It's almost like they are daring you to steal.

I get annoyed when I buy a Blu-ray for $25 bucks and it has 10 mother****ing trailers in the front of it.

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sek929
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Feb 21, 2012, 07:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
I get annoyed when I buy a Blu-ray for $25 bucks and it has 10 mother****ing trailers in the front of it.
That's just about the biggest dick move I can imagine.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Feb 21, 2012, 07:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
That's just about the biggest dick move I can imagine.
No, the biggest dick move is when you pay two euro extra for the ******* CINEMAXX, which isn't any better than the other theaters, just bigger, and then they have the gall to throw a full THIRTY MINUTES of commercials at you, rather than the fifteen minutes you usually get at other (cheaper) cinemas.

I did that once, and will never do it again.
     
OAW  (op)
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Feb 21, 2012, 07:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
Those among us who are tech-savvy enough are baffled that a company like HBO remains shackled to delivering its content in archaic ways, when there is plenty of money to be made, most likely MORE money to be made adopting the "I want it NOW!" nature of our instant-gratification culture.
Actually I'm not "baffled" by it. I just think it's "short-sighted". HBO's current business model is to charge $15/month per subscriber. This money is paid to them by the cable companies. Who knows how much of that is split between the companies involved ... but that's a side issue. My point here is that the consumer is not HBO's customer ... the cable companies are the customer. And therein lies the rub! HBO knows what side their bread is buttered on and who is doing the spreading. The market for people who are looking to download movies and shows over the internet is incredibly small compared to the not-so-tech-savvy masses who are quite content to just plop on the couch and fork over money for an HBO subscription. So in the meantime HBO doesn't want to alienate their customers ... that is, the cable companies ... but encouraging an a la carte distribution model that they do not favor and are fighting tooth and nail against. And it's not all on the cable companies. There's more money in a subscription model than a la carte model for HBO too. This is why in order to use HBO Go you still have to have an HBO subscription!

But I say this is "shortsighted" because they are hanging on to a business model that more and more consumers are rejecting. And one of two things will happen eventually. 1) They will lose the consumer market to a competitor that provides people the entertainment they want, when they want it, at an affordable price ... or 2) More and more people will resort to piracy and nobody makes any money. The choice is theirs ...

OAW
     
olePigeon
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Feb 21, 2012, 07:24 PM
 
I go out of my way to support the smaller theatres. The size of the screen is relative to the distance and seating of the theatre, so you aren't losing anything in terms of field of view. I don't have to worry about a movie being 3D only, so I can actually go see it (they usually don't have the expensive 3D cameras) The best part is that all the yapping asshats that think the movie deserves their commentary, or, that their text messages or Facebook are too important so they have to check their phone every 5 minutes during the entire movie; well, they all go to the fancy theatre and yack it up with all the other social retards. Meanwhile in the relatively small three screen cinedome, I actually get to enjoy the movie.

My favorite cinema is the Del Oro in Grass Valley, California. It's a converted 1940s opera house. The screen is across the old stage, and it has a huge domed ceiling with spectacular paintings, wonderful wood molding, and a chandelier. It also has awesome popcorn, popped in sunflower seed oil instead of coconut oil. Mmmm.
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OAW  (op)
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Feb 21, 2012, 07:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
I don't think HBO has a waiting period on Netflix... I think they instead choose to make Netflix pay full retail price for their discs. (I could be wrong.)
Not sure what they do when it comes to disc rentals. But when it comes to streaming rentals on Netflix ... they are simply non-existent. HBO refuses to license their content. At least any of the recent stuff.

OAW
     
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Feb 21, 2012, 07:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
My criticism of the cartoon is that I suspect you could upgrade to HBO for 1 month for about $20 and then once you're a subscriber (even if you don't even own a TV) you could watch the whole GoT series on HBO's website (or comcast's), then cancel HBO mid-month and probably get half your upgrade cost back. But I haven't tried this, so who knows what unexpected errors there would be.
Actually I've done this myself. I only watch the premium channels for the original content. I don't care about the re-runs of movies because by the time it gets on HBO I've already rented it on Netflix or iTunes if I was interested. So for HBO ... I'm doing Game of Thrones, Boardwalk Empire, etc. Showtime I'm doing Dexter, The Borgias, etc.. Starz I'm doing Spartacus. So I would subscribe to these channels when the shows I cared about were in season ... and then cancel when they weren't. Trying to save a buck or two. But here recently after running into way to many hassles trying to get Starz (and missing the season premiere of Spartacus on the night it aired as a result) .... the customer service agent showed me how I was actually paying more trying to do all that than if I just bought a package that had all the movie channels included. So I just went with the latter. The thing is I only care about a dozen or so channels. And certain shows on the premium channels. I wish I could just pay for that. But naturally, they cable companies structure their packages so that in order to get everything you want you have to go for the larger packages ... even though 90% of the stuff in them is of no interest to you.

OAW
     
Uncle Skeleton
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Feb 21, 2012, 09:39 PM
 
The point was that watching shows on live tv is unnecessarily restrictive, because the stations usually stream their content to subscribed customers. So just wait until the entire season has already aired, then stream them all in one day (since these types of shows only have 10-12 eps per season anyway), and pro-rate your subscription for just that day.

Even if you have to sign up for cable AND premium channels for this, the pro-rated subscription fee can be pretty minimal depending on how long it takes you to watch what you want to watch. It's a-la-carte through the back door (assuming they aren't playing bait and switch with the online availability of their content)
     
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Feb 24, 2012, 12:48 AM
 
And speaking of Blockbuster ... their online streaming service is actually pretty good. Good movie selection and the picture quality was nice. The brick-and-mortar stores are going the way of the dodo as I mentioned before. So I found it quite uh "interesting" to get this in an email from them a few days back:

We have some good news and some bad news. The bad news is that, as of 3/31/12, the Blockbuster app will no longer be available on your Samsung Home Theater. We are updating our technology platform and will not be able to continue supporting your device.

The good news is that you can still stream your movies on your PC or MAC and other supported devices.

We offer many other ways to watch the movies you've already rented or purchased:

Purchases: Your purchased movies will still be in your Blockbuster On Demand Library. You can watch them on any of our other devices, or stream them via PC or Mac. See a list of supported devices.

Rentals: Please watch your rentals by 11:59 PM ET on 3/29/12. If you don't watch by then, you can watch on another supported device or stream via your PC or Mac. See a list of supported devices.

We are hard at work improving our service and plan to add new features and devices throughout the year. Thank you for being a Blockbuster customer and we apologize for any inconvenience this transition may cause.

Your friends at Blockbuster


OAW
     
 
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