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monhall · Dec 5, 2002, 12:20 PM

I have always loved the TiBooks. I started with a 400MHz....went to a 667 MHz with CD/DVD ROM...now have a 667MHZ with combo drive (CD-R/DVD-ROM).

NOW, after buying 3 powerbooks over the last 2 years, I consider myself a good Apple customer. No doubt, they made a few bucks off of me.

SO, am I wrong to now feel like Apple is out of line when they demand that 3rd party Firewire DVD-Burners NOT WORK with iDVD? I understand that iDVD is free...and I would certainly be willing to pay a fair price for iDVD specifically. I don't think I need the full function of DVD Studio. But, if I much prefer Apple applications to the other 3rd party applications that ship with the drives, I DO NOT think that I should have to buy a new 1GHz TiBook to get iDVD.

In short, Apple is wrong to take the position they are taking with external DVD-Burners. I should be able to pick up a drive from LaCie or OWC and pay Apple, say $125 for a license to use iDVD.

The approach Apple is taking is enough to make me consider no longer buying Apple products. They don't think of the customer. I don't mean to whine, but most of the companies we often complain about would never do something like this. Why Apple?

[email protected]

icruise · Dec 5, 2002, 04:49 PM

I agree, it sucks. Apple apparently believes that it is more profitable to force a small number of people to buy superdrive-equipped systems than to allow a larger number to use iDVD with external drives.

CRASH HARDDRIVE · Dec 5, 2002, 04:54 PM

Sucks... but what's also needed is better and more 3rd party software.

Apple is really under no obligation to suppport 3rd party external peripherals.

A mid range DVD app from Apple that's payware might be a good idea, but I guess Apple's argument would be it might take sales away from DVD Studio Pro, or keep people from buying new systems.

Just seems to me a better 3rd party application is the best route, rather than Apple doing what may be detrimental to their own business.

icruise · Dec 5, 2002, 05:05 PM

While I mostly love the iApps, one unfortunate side-effect has been that they tend to shut down competition from similar products (if Microsoft did these we'd be up in arms). Relatively few people will pay for an MP3 player when iTunes is out there for free (yes I know about Audion and so forth). So I'm not sure that a third party is going to be spending a lot of time and money developing something that does exactly what iDVD does. Unfortunately while there are quite a few people who would like to use an external burner with iDVD, I'm not sure if it is a viable market.

littlegreenspud · Dec 6, 2002, 01:02 PM

I thought Apple had to pay royalties for every iDVD copy, this would deter them from giving it away for people to use on external drives.

icruise · Dec 6, 2002, 02:00 PM

Who would they pay royalties to?

By the way, I was just reading one of the local (ie Japanese) Mac magazines and they had an article about a Japanese application called Capty DVD/VCD which sounds like it might actually be a decent substitute for iDVD. It has pretty much all of the features of iDVD (and in fact the interface resembles iDVD a lot) but it also has chapter marks, can make VCDs, and has several other features that iDVD lacks as well. It will even work on a G3 (but very slowly).

It runs about $150, or $75 if you own one of the manufacturer's pieces of hardware (like the Capty MPEG capture device, etc). Unfortunately I think it is only available in Japan at the moment, but from what I hear they have completely localized it for English so it might very well be sold in the US in the near future.

I am going to try and see if I can't get my hands on a copy.

Parvulesco · Dec 6, 2002, 02:10 PM

Originally posted by Icruise:
Who would they pay royalties to?

The MPEG LA, and selling a stand-alone version of iDVD would in fact require Apple to pay an additional license fee for each copy sold. Not saying that this cost couldn't be incorporated into the price of the stand-alone software, but there ya go.

joe · Dec 6, 2002, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by Icruise:
...it also has chapter marks, can make VCDs, and has several other features that iDVD lacks as well.

Sounds excellent - especially the chapter marks!

It runs about $150, or $75 if you own one of the manufacturer's pieces of hardware (like the Capty MPEG capture device, etc). Unfortunately I think it is only available in Japan at the moment, but from what I hear they have completely localized it for English so it might very well be sold in the US in the near future.

I hope so. $150 seems very reasonable considering. And for the $75 price, I'd be very interested in their hardware devices too!

I am going to try and see if I can't get my hands on a copy.

If you do, please post your impressions of the features - especially chapter support

thanx......joe

muzakdoc · Dec 7, 2002, 05:42 PM

Originally posted by monhall:
I have always loved the TiBooks. I started with a 400MHz....went to a 667 MHz with CD/DVD ROM...now have a 667MHZ with combo drive (CD-R/DVD-ROM).

NOW, after buying 3 powerbooks over the last 2 years, I consider myself a good Apple customer. No doubt, they made a few bucks off of me.

SO, am I wrong to now feel like Apple is out of line when they demand that 3rd party Firewire DVD-Burners NOT WORK with iDVD? I understand that iDVD is free...and I would certainly be willing to pay a fair price for iDVD specifically. I don't think I need the full function of DVD Studio. But, if I much prefer Apple applications to the other 3rd party applications that ship with the drives, I DO NOT think that I should have to buy a new 1GHz TiBook to get iDVD.

In short, Apple is wrong to take the position they are taking with external DVD-Burners. I should be able to pick up a drive from LaCie or OWC and pay Apple, say $125 for a license to use iDVD.

The approach Apple is taking is enough to make me consider no longer buying Apple products. They don't think of the customer. I don't mean to whine, but most of the companies we often complain about would never do something like this. Why Apple?

[email protected]

restbeckett · Dec 10, 2002, 06:43 AM

"Apple forcing our hand?"

*yawn*

What else is new?

tr · Dec 10, 2002, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by joe:
Originally posted by Icruise:
...it also has chapter marks, can make VCDs, and has several other features that iDVD lacks as well.

Sounds excellent - especially the chapter marks!

It runs about $150, or $75 if you own one of the manufacturer's pieces of hardware (like the Capty MPEG capture device, etc). Unfortunately I think it is only available in Japan at the moment, but from what I hear they have completely localized it for English so it might very well be sold in the US in the near future.

I hope so. $150 seems very reasonable considering. And for the $75 price, I'd be very interested in their hardware devices too!

I am going to try and see if I can't get my hands on a copy.

If you do, please post your impressions of the features - especially chapter support thanx......joe

check out this page on xlr8yourmac.com

http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/feedback/..._CaptyDVD.html

my ADS USB Instant DVD for Mac box is coming in today, so i'll have to try out the software...i'll see if i can report back when i've played with it.

tr

PCTek · Dec 10, 2002, 02:39 PM

Remember iTunes? Remember when iTunes was first released, it only supported the CD burners that came with the machine. After a while, it slowly started accepting other, third party drives.

Give iDVD some time.

icruise · Dec 10, 2002, 03:29 PM

Originally posted by PCTek:
Remember iTunes? Remember when iTunes was first released, it only supported the CD burners that came with the machine. After a while, it slowly started accepting other, third party drives.

Give iDVD some time.

Yes, but Apple never sued companies for trying to get their drives to work with iTunes, as is the case with iDVD. And from what I have been able to tell it is most definitely not a case of Apple eventually working out the bugs involved in supporting third party drives -- they could make it work tomorrow if they wanted, but they have decided that they will make more money forcing people to buy superdrive-equipped macs.

I am very interested in the other report on xlr8yourmac (the middle one being mine). I don't have Replay TV, but it you could use the files created by it (as the report claims) it would be amazingly useful.

baglunch · Dec 13, 2002, 01:51 AM

i've heard reports that the new pioneer A05 4x dvd-r drive, when mounted into an external firewire enclosure, works with macs.. this is no surprise since the "superdrive" is an oem pioneer a04 2x dvd-r drive.

The new sony 4x dvd-rw/dvd+rw does not work with macs (of course).

tr · Dec 15, 2002, 02:57 AM

Originally posted by baglunch:
i've heard reports that the new pioneer A05 4x dvd-r drive, when mounted into an external firewire enclosure, works with macs.. this is no surprise since the "superdrive" is an oem pioneer a04 2x dvd-r drive.

The new sony 4x dvd-rw/dvd+rw does not work with macs (of course).

although A05's will be compatible with iTunes, discburner, toast, etc., it will not be recognized by iDVD (requires drive on IDE).

tr

TheMosco · Dec 15, 2002, 12:57 PM

Originally posted by baglunch:
i've heard reports that the new pioneer A05 4x dvd-r drive, when mounted into an external firewire enclosure, works with macs.. this is no surprise since the "superdrive" is an oem pioneer a04 2x dvd-r drive.

The new sony 4x dvd-rw/dvd+rw does not work with macs (of course).

the sony drive should work with toast.

Eug · Dec 15, 2002, 06:23 PM

Originally posted by baglunch:
i've heard reports that the new pioneer A05 4x dvd-r drive, when mounted into an external firewire enclosure, works with macs.. this is no surprise since the "superdrive" is an oem pioneer a04 2x dvd-r drive.

The new sony 4x dvd-rw/dvd+rw does not work with macs (of course).

The PowerMac SuperDrives include the Pioneer A03, Pioneer A04, and LG 4020 I believe. The TiBook SuperDrive is a Panasonic UJ-815.

bradoesch · Dec 16, 2002, 12:27 AM

I've wanted to get a FireWire DVD burner, but not without iDVD. And I definitely don't have the money for a new Mac, that's for sure. But I don't expect or think Apple should give iDVD away for free and support external DVD writers. I want them to though.

Brad

k_munic · Dec 16, 2002, 04:54 AM

If�

� you do use MacOSX.1 or lower (NOT X.2)
� find a copy of DVD ENABLER of OtherWorldComputing (NO, not a versiontracker, Apple pulled that patch)

� you can use ANY firewire connected dvd writer.-

For "burning" dvds toast is fine - but you need an authering tool; and dvd menus, chaptering and so on seems to be another story, the guys who did SIZZLE (try it, early beta, but fine!) told me, there are no docs available, they do all the stuff by "re-engineering"�whopee!!!

funny: for PeeCee you can get dozends of .exe (for free or at least a few bucks) to author and burn dvds.... so, license fees can't be the real argument......

anyone a superdrive? ;-)

schalliol · Dec 16, 2002, 06:35 AM

Apple makes profit on the SuperDrives and it costs money to produce iDVD. Additionally, Apple hopes that iDVD is compelling enough for some users to purchase a new computer with it and a SuperDrive. This last reason may be why the software is not for sale on its own.

Eug · Dec 16, 2002, 11:59 AM

Originally posted by schalliol:
Apple makes profit on the SuperDrives and it costs money to produce iDVD. Additionally, Apple hopes that iDVD is compelling enough for some users to purchase a new computer with it and a SuperDrive. This last reason may be why the software is not for sale on its own.

iDVD is $19.99, available directly from Apple.

icruise · Dec 16, 2002, 12:11 PM

True, although it is ostenstively an upgrade, and not a piece of software for sale. This means that technically you don't have the right to use the software unless you bought a computer with iDVD already installed (and in any case it doesn't work without an internal drive). I don't care one way or another, but the point is that from Apple's point of view the software isn't, in fact, for sale.

Anyway (legal rights to the software aside) the only people who can really benefit from buying it from Apple are people who are people adding an aftermarket superdrive to a desktop machine like a tower, or people who want to upgrade from a previous version of iDVD.