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BRussell · Jun 20, 2002, 04:46 PM

You know, the "I'm number one!" chanting, flag-waving nonsense?

The rest of the world criticizes the US for that kind of attitude, but then the World Cup comes along, and behold! there are idiots on the entire planet, not just in the US.

RAzaRazor · Jun 20, 2002, 04:47 PM

They are just ****ed that we are way better them for the other 3 years and 11 months between World Cups.

Tigerabbit · Jun 20, 2002, 07:10 PM

More sour grapes from Italy:

<a href="http://worldcup.espnsoccernet.com/story?id=218124&lang=us" target="_blank">http://worldcup.espnsoccernet.com/story?id=218124&lang=us</a>

and

<a href="http://worldcup.espnsoccernet.com/story?id=218235&lang=us" target="_blank">http://worldcup.espnsoccernet.com/story?id=218235&lang=us</a>

Do they have to be invited next time?

[ 06-20-2002, 07:18 PM: Message edited by: Tigerabbit ]

Mediaman_12 · Jun 20, 2002, 08:17 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Tigerabbit:
More sour grapes from Italy:

<a href="http://worldcup.espnsoccernet.com/story?id=218124&lang=us" target="_blank">http://worldcup.espnsoccernet.com/story?id=218124&lang=us</a>

and

<a href="http://worldcup.espnsoccernet.com/story?id=218235&lang=us" target="_blank">http://worldcup.espnsoccernet.com/story?id=218235&lang=us</a>

Do they have to be invited next time?<hr /></blockquote>I couldn't really believe it when I read this sad state of affairs. It seams that somehow they want to employ the best players available to the team, but said players have got to play 'less good' against the Italians when they are in there home country's National team in order for them to keep there jobs. It stinks, and if they are allowed to get away with it it has the possibility to totally ruin International Football/Soccer.

Parvulesco · Jun 20, 2002, 08:19 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Tigerabbit:
More sour grapes from Italy:

<a href="http://worldcup.espnsoccernet.com/story?id=218124&lang=us" target="_blank">http://worldcup.espnsoccernet.com/story?id=218124&lang=us</a>

and

<a href="http://worldcup.espnsoccernet.com/story?id=218235&lang=us" target="_blank">http://worldcup.espnsoccernet.com/story?id=218235&lang=us</a>

Do they have to be invited next time?<hr /></blockquote>Oh sure, you'd never see something like this happen if the USA had been the victim of unbelievably bad officiating (to the tune of five goals called back on bad calls)...

As for Anh: he was seen as a major disappointment in Perugia even before the South Korea-Italy match, scoring five goals in 30 matches and never merited being a regular. Can you really blame the owner for finally deciding to cut an underachieving player loose, given how unpopular Anh will be in Italy now?

goatnet · Jun 20, 2002, 08:50 PM

"World Cup makes the rest of the world act like Americans "

You mean tune in to another channel and watch something interesting?

j/k!

theolein · Jun 20, 2002, 08:51 PM

It's ironic that I said to the guy at the corner shop that the Korean guy is going to be persona non grata in Italy. The next day I read that he has been dumped by his team in Perugia. Damn unfair, but sort of to be expected. In any case, here in Zurich, which has an Italian population percentage of about 20%, the Korean restaurant and the Hyundai car dealership on the way to work were both still standing this afternoon.

BRussel: When I read a flame like yours, I get kind of pi-ssed. Hasn't there been enough of this Euro-USA bullsh-it on these boards?

deeg · Jun 20, 2002, 09:06 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Parvulesco:

As for Anh: he was seen as a major disappointment in Perugia even before the South Korea-Italy match, scoring five goals in 30 matches and never merited being a regular. Can you really blame the owner for finally deciding to cut an underachieving player loose, given how unpopular Anh will be in Italy now?<hr /></blockquote>was not his contract also up at the end june anyway ?

Parvulesco · Jun 20, 2002, 09:11 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by deeg:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Parvulesco:

As for Anh: he was seen as a major disappointment in Perugia even before the South Korea-Italy match, scoring five goals in 30 matches and never merited being a regular. Can you really blame the owner for finally deciding to cut an underachieving player loose, given how unpopular Anh will be in Italy now?<hr /></blockquote>was not his contract also up at the end june anyway ?<hr /></blockquote>Yes, that's correct. Perugia would have had to have paid somewhere in the neighborhood of US$1.5 million to renew his contract.

[ 06-20-2002, 09:12 PM: Message edited by: Parvulesco ]

scottiB · Jun 20, 2002, 10:30 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Oh sure, you'd never see something like this happen if the USA had been the victim of unbelievably bad officiating (to the tune of five goals called back on bad calls)...

<hr /></blockquote>No, I don't believe I ever would, but with American professional sports there isn't a clear comparison. None of the four major sports (basketball, baseball, North American football, hockey) is as nationalistic as football, and none of those sports' international events is as big as the World Cup, not even the Olympics, to Americans at large. If a minor (or starting), European basketball player for the L.A. Lakers were to beat the U.S. World Championship basketball team (or even Olympic team) with an at-the-buzzer jump shot, he wouldn't be summarily dropped for doing so.

The U.S. has been "vicitmized" in international competition. In the 1972 Munich Olympic Games, the U.S. Men's Basketball team lost a controversially officiated gold medal game to the Soviet Union (. <a href="http://www.gazetteonline.com/special/olympics/summer96/olym046.htm" target="_blank">linky</a> <a href="http://www.infoplease.com/spot/mm-1972bball.html" target="_blank">linky</a> ). Again, not a clean comparison because none of the Soviet athletes played for American teams.

There's nothing ugly about nationalism in international sporting events--it relieves tension. Better strikers upfield than airstrikes overhead.

theolein · Jun 20, 2002, 11:11 PM

I remember back in the '98 WC, my own national team, South Africa, were about as useless as you can get. They were in the same group as France and one of SA's best players Pierre Issa, who normally played for Olympique Marseille, scored a goal against his own side. If SA had beaten France back then would Marseille have dumped him? There were some rumours that he'd been paid to lose. In any case he wasn't on the SA team this time around and they didn't do badly.

Tigerabbit · Jun 21, 2002, 05:41 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Parvulesco:
Yes, that's correct. Perugia would have had to have paid somewhere in the neighborhood of US$1.5 million to renew his contract.<hr /></blockquote>I foresee this "underachiever" getting more money elsewhere.

Any more whining and crying out of Italy and their standing in the world football community will dive faster than one of their footballers.

Maybe that's why they're called "divas".

simonjames · Jun 21, 2002, 07:21 AM

Oh please - so typically head up the anus American

Who the hell do you think gave you your flag waving ideas?

Go have a look at the Scandanavians - they've been doing it before you were born.

Ju-hee-zus christ - "lets make them look like us to make us feel supreme"

SOD OFF

maxelson · Jun 21, 2002, 07:44 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Parvulesco:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Tigerabbit:
More sour grapes from Italy:

<a href="http://worldcup.espnsoccernet.com/story?id=218124&lang=us" target="_blank">http://worldcup.espnsoccernet.com/story?id=218124&lang=us</a>

and

<a href="http://worldcup.espnsoccernet.com/story?id=218235&lang=us" target="_blank">http://worldcup.espnsoccernet.com/story?id=218235&lang=us</a>

Do they have to be invited next time?<hr /></blockquote>Oh sure, you'd never see something like this happen if the USA had been the victim of unbelievably bad officiating (to the tune of five goals called back on bad calls)...

As for Anh: he was seen as a major disappointment in Perugia even before the South Korea-Italy match, scoring five goals in 30 matches and never merited being a regular. Can you really blame the owner for finally deciding to cut an underachieving player loose, given how unpopular Anh will be in Italy now?<hr /></blockquote><img border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" title="" src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" />
Hmmm. Could you be... no wait, lemme guess... YOU'RE ITALIAN! Aren't YOU!
Wow. Actually, we don't see that many lawsuits over lost games in professional sports here. Hell, I'm no sports almanac, but... nope, can't think of a one (and the league playoffs betwixt the NYY and Bos in '99 would have been a PRIME case- I mean, Knobloch never TOUCHED Offerman) I think perhaps you should do some RESEARCH before making a call like that.
Get the vinegar out of your mouth and be real. Justifying the ouster of Ahn in the way you do is positively insulting. What part of, ""Enough! That guy will never again set foot in Perugia. I am not going to pay the salary of a guy who has been the ruin of Italian soccer." was ambiguous?
Please. Get over it. It's only a game. And yes, it was only a game in '86, too. Even game 7 was just. a. game. No! Really!

maxelson · Jun 21, 2002, 07:53 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by simonjames:
Oh please - so typically head up the anus American

Who the hell do you think gave you your flag waving ideas?

Go have a look at the Scandanavians - they've been doing it before you were born.

Ju-hee-zus christ - "lets make them look like us to make us feel supreme"

SOD OFF<hr /></blockquote>My. We respond to the bashing of a group of people by... yep! BASHING ANOTHER GROUP OF PEOPLE! NO! TWO! Unless you want to break down Scandinavians into 4, 5, or 6 different groups in which case you've just gattling-ed 5, 6 or 7 groups. How... how... HYpoCRIticAL of you! (yeah, well he pushed me first! )
Jeez. Dammit. No wonder I believe the human race does not deserve to continue. And remarks like that further reinforce it. Yes, let's create an even BROADER imaginary dividing line, cause, you know, that'sa JUST WHAT WE NEED!
MY GOD! LIGHTEN UP!

simonjames · Jun 21, 2002, 08:04 AM

I'd love to lighten up - starting with a big torch below you know where

Maxelson - you have *so* missed the point I am beginning to wonder if English is your first language

maxelson · Jun 21, 2002, 08:11 AM

OK. Explain it to me.

simonjames · Jun 21, 2002, 08:21 AM

To start with - I wasn't bashing Scandanavians. My family is from Denmark. We wave the Danish flag when we get out of bed until we go to bed at night- well, sort of. But you Americans think you invented flag waving - well sorry sunshine - we Danes have been doing it before the USA even started.

And where do you think most of the people from the northern middle states of America come from? Blonde hair and blue eyes are a good hint though not all of us look as arian as the news would lead you to believe.

Mu initial post/point was to bash Americans - you guys think you invented everything - including patriotism and flag waving -well, guess what? You didn't. The cultures that brought you these attributes have been around long before the USA was born.

amsalpemkcus · Jun 21, 2002, 08:24 AM

maxelson · Jun 21, 2002, 08:29 AM

OK. So, we remove my critique of your Scadinavian comment and we are still left with... the same point.
And I'm a Swedish American, thanks.
Your assumption that Americans think we invented everything is rash generalizing (which we did NOT invent) and patently absurd. Also seems like a silly reason to bash America.
"We're number one!"
"Maybe, but we were number one FIRST!"
SIlly?

simonjames · Jun 21, 2002, 08:39 AM

Exactly - "we're number one"

FIRST - in what queue? First to receive the next allocation of brains? Of humility? Of rational thinking? Pity more Scandanavians didn't emmigrate to Northern America.

I think when you look at quality of life for the WHOLE population of a country then you'll find the Scandanavian countries leading the world.

Mind you Australia doesn't do too bad

maxelson · Jun 21, 2002, 09:05 AM

RIght. You win.
You and I are engaging in a silly contentious debate in which there seems to be no meaningful or useful point.
Sorry.
I was just criticizing the generalization.

Troll · Jun 21, 2002, 11:34 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by theolein:
I remember back in the '98 WC, my own national team, South Africa, were about as useless as you can get. They were in the same group as France and one of SA's best players Pierre Issa, who normally played for Olympique Marseille, scored a goal against his own side. If SA had beaten France back then would Marseille have dumped him? There were some rumours that he'd been paid to lose. In any case he wasn't on the SA team this time around and they didn't do badly.<hr /></blockquote>Didn't do badly?? Bafana bafana rule! They played with more guts and more determination than any other team at the tournament ... okay, on a par perhaps with the USA (oh how it smarts to praise them <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> ) and the Koreans.

SA have only been allowed to qualify for the World Cup twice ... and we have a 100% qualification record! Last time round, no points! This time round - scored more goals and more points than the World Champions, lost out on a second round place not on number of points, not on goal difference, but on number of goals scored (by 1). And the whole team earns less combined than Fabien Barthez! Actually, the budget of the SA Professional Soccer League is probably less than Zidane's annual salary.

Theolein, what do you think of Jomo Sono? I was sceptical, but it looks like getting rid of that Portugese guy was the best thing they could have done!

I watched the games in France and no matter how animated the commentators got about SA, I still missed the long cry of Laaaaaddddddddduuuuuuuummmmmmmaaaaaaaa!

Tomorrow I will be in front of the TV screaming for Senegal!