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Kenstee · 04:56 PM

"Merom," the successor to the "Yonah" Core Duo processor - now in the MBP - will provide about a 20 percent speed increase without drawing additional power... and will be here in the third quarter of this year!

http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1576

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060307/...tel_developers

rickey939 · Mar 7, 2006, 04:13 PM

Haha, nice!

Poogy · Mar 7, 2006, 04:14 PM

A speedup of 1.2 doesn't scare me. I already ordered an MBP to get the 4x speedup; there's no point crying that it could've been a 4.8x speedup.

cpac · Mar 7, 2006, 04:20 PM

excellent.

I can wait for a MWSF '07 Rev B. MBP (and I can hope that other innovations make that time frame - maybe even a new case design...)

PurpleRabbit73 · Mar 7, 2006, 05:01 PM

damn! so i should have waited?!?!?!

LagunaSol · Mar 7, 2006, 05:05 PM

Let's relax with all the buyer's remorse guys. We're in Intel land now. The days of insignificant speed bumps every 6 months that we experienced for years on the PPC platform are behind us now. Faster machines on a regular basis are going to be a given with Intel (and perhaps, someday, with AMD?). So buy what you need when you need it and enjoy, accepting the fact that something better and faster will always be right around the corner. Always.

harrisjamieh · Mar 7, 2006, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by PurpleRabbit73

damn! so i should have waited?!?!?!

Waited. what for!? The MBP JUST came out, its on the cutting edge of technology (~ish). You can wait your entire life to buy a computer, telling youself, 'i'll just wait for the next one because it will be better and faster'. Totally pointless. The MBP is the current model, and will be for the next 6 months or so. It is literally impossible to keep up with computer technology today. As they say, as soon as you take it out of its box, its obsolete.

Zyphere · Mar 7, 2006, 05:25 PM

So Merom is set to launch Q3.
All I can do is hope the Merom-based MBPs launch in Q3 also... You think that's a bit early or is it likely?

Scooterboy · Mar 7, 2006, 05:32 PM

Will it have FW800? Some Apple Store clerks assured me it won't. Ever. That FW800 is a "pro port" and will only be available on desktop Macs. They said that there's no room for FW800 on the MacBooks.

Merom looks promising, so an upgrade/switch might be in order around '07. That way I'll have time to build an Athlon64 desktop, and either buy a Merom powered Mac or PC laptop, depending on how the new OSes compare at the time.

analogika · Mar 7, 2006, 05:38 PM

There will always be a new model, and it will always be faster, smaller, cheaper, more efficient. cooler, better, or any of the above, than what you just bought, and it will ALWAYS come out immediately after you bought yours.

The interesting thing is that "immediately" is a relative term that can cover anything from 2 days to more than six months (which is almost a full computer generation).

For a normal consumer who buys a computer every three or four years, six months seems "immediately".

jamil5454 · Mar 7, 2006, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by analogika

There will always be a new model, and it will always be faster, smaller, cheaper, more efficient. cooler, better, or any of the above, than what you just bought, and it will ALWAYS come out immediately after you bought yours.

The interesting thing is that "immediately" is a relative term that can cover anything from 2 days to more than six months (which is almost a full computer generation).

For a normal consumer who buys a computer every three or four years, six months seems "immediately".

Well put.

Enjoy the machine. I was recently given an iBook G4, which is far slower than anything Intel. I could sell it for some pretty good cash and spend only a few hundred for a MacBook when it comes out, but am I going to? No.

For consumers and students, it's best to enjoy what you have now. In the long run, it'll work to your advantage to use what you have until it no longer works for you. Besides, by the time AppleCare expires on this machine (Oct. 07), I'll be ready for a new machine anyway.

As I always say, waiting is half the fun!

spacefreak · Mar 8, 2006, 08:44 AM

I was actually more bummed to hear about this new Intel feature: Intel to have Wi-Max cards this year

Wi-Max has a much longer range, varying from a couple of miles in an urban area to 10 miles or more in open country.

Intel, which had previously said it expected to have Wi-Max products in 2007, now plans to have Wi-Max cards for laptops in the second half of this year, Sean Maloney, vice president of Intel's mobility group, told a company conference.

ChrisF · Mar 8, 2006, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by Scooterboy

Will it have FW800? Some Apple Store clerks assured me it won't. Ever. That FW800 is a "pro port" and will only be available on desktop Macs. They said that there's no room for FW800 on the MacBooks.

Apple Store clerks are retail employees. They have no knowledge of any upcoming products nor Apple's future product directions. To say that FW800 is a "pro" port which will never appear on the MacBook PRO is absurd.
This does not mean that Apple will include FW800 on the new desktop machines; it may indeed be necessary to buy a 3rd party card for those too, but my overriding point is that the Apple store employees have no idea.

gperks · Mar 8, 2006, 11:58 AM

Yonah is a huge jump over the G4. Merom is a smaller bump over Yonah. Sure it'll be great when Merom is out, but the really significant jump is available now. I'll take that. You can get a 10% jump by buying a 2.0 over a 1.83 today, and another 8% by ponying up for a 2.16 over a 2.0.

Also, available in 3rd quarter might be the same as Yonah's launch on Jan 6th - MacBooks not shipping until a month later, and still with a 2-3 week wait for orders.

I wouldn't sweat it. Dual-core Yonah is a really nice chip, and a big improvement over the G4s. Merom isn't *that* much faster. Now Intel's desktop line-up is going to see a very very welcome improvement later this year - that will be worth waiting for. Their mobile chips are already extremely good.

F*ckDell · Mar 8, 2006, 12:38 PM

gperks
Now Intel's desktop line-up is going to see a very very welcome improvement later this year - that will be worth waiting for. Their mobile chips are already extremely good.

Are the new Intel Power Towers going to be better then the current Quad?

mintcake · Mar 8, 2006, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by spacefreak

I was actually more bummed to hear about this new Intel feature: Intel to have Wi-Max cards this year

Well yeah but Wimax is going to take a while to come onstream and when it does, well, that's what that Expresscard slot in your Macbook Pro is for, right?

TheBum · Mar 8, 2006, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by Poogy

A speedup of 1.2 doesn't scare me. I already ordered an MBP to get the 4x speedup; there's no point crying that it could've been a 4.8x speedup.

My thoughts exactly. I'm moving up from an 867 MHz 12" PowerBook G4 to a 2.0 GHz MBP, so a 20% speed-up is trivial compared to the move I'm making.

mduell · Mar 8, 2006, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by spacefreak

I was actually more bummed to hear about this new Intel feature: Intel to have Wi-Max cards this year

I doubt it will be built-in. Santa Rosa will have 802.11n built in, but not WiMAX.
WiMAX will be available as PC Cards and ExpressCards.

golfer099 · Mar 8, 2006, 04:55 PM

Dude I went from a 333mhz G3 to a Dual 2Ghz MPB - I don't care about another 20% - my macs last me 6+ years! So for the $2500 it cost (my last G3 cost hte same), I only pay $416 a year - which is less over time than people pay who upgrade every 2 years

Kenstee · Mar 8, 2006, 06:40 PM

Well, the first batch of Meroms are already yesterday's news....

http://www.macnn.com/articles/06/03/...ino.computing/

Barefoot Matt · Mar 8, 2006, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by Kenstee

Well, the first batch of Meroms are already yesterday's news....

http://www.macnn.com/articles/06/03/...ino.computing/

Now I see why MBP processors are soldered instead of socketed. Merom will be socket-compatible with the Core Duo, which means that if MBP Core Duos were socketed Apple would sell a lot fewer Rev B laptops because most people would just upgrade the processor.

mduell · Mar 8, 2006, 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by Barefoot Matt

Now I see why MBP processors are soldered instead of socketed. Merom will be socket-compatible with the Core Duo, which means that if MBP Core Duos were socketed Apple would sell a lot fewer Rev B laptops because most people would just upgrade the processor.

The laptops are soldered for size/space reasons.
If Apple was using that logic, why are the Mac mini and iMac socketed?

TheBum · Mar 8, 2006, 11:57 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

The laptops are soldered for size/space reasons.
If Apple was using that logic, why are the Mac mini and iMac socketed?

There's also the issue of sudden movement, impact, and vibration inherent in the environments where laptops are used, which could cause a socketed chip to pop out.

Barefoot Matt · Mar 9, 2006, 08:40 AM

Okay, fine, so I'm just being paranoid.

jamil5454 · Mar 9, 2006, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by TheBum

There's also the issue of sudden movement, impact, and vibration inherent in the environments where laptops are used, which could cause a socketed chip to pop out.

Not to sound critical, but have you ever put a CPU in a socket? Once you push that lever down the CPU isn't going anywhere. You'd have to rip all the pins out of the thing to get it out.

Morn · Mar 9, 2006, 09:09 AM

Probably to help keep the laptop thin, a socket would add quite a bit of height to the processor.

john h · Mar 9, 2006, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by jamil5454

Well put.

Enjoy the machine. I was recently given an iBook G4, which is far slower than anything Intel. I could sell it for some pretty good cash and spend only a few hundred for a MacBook when it comes out, but am I going to? No.

For consumers and students, it's best to enjoy what you have now. In the long run, it'll work to your advantage to use what you have until it no longer works for you. Besides, by the time AppleCare expires on this machine (Oct. 07), I'll be ready for a new machine anyway.

As I always say, waiting is half the fun!

Perhaps you saved me some money. I have a mint Ti PB 867 that i ordered a couple of years ago. Just like I wanted from Apple. I am one who always wants the latest and the best whether I need it or not. I may just put that new computer aside that I was going to buy and enjoy what works very well for me and has never had a problem or panic. This is today who knows what I will think tomorrow.

mduell · Mar 9, 2006, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by jamil5454

Not to sound critical, but have you ever put a CPU in a socket? Once you push that lever down the CPU isn't going anywhere. You'd have to rip all the pins out of the thing to get it out.

Actually, S478 isn't that hard to pull a processor out of, with pins intact.

/Been there
//Done that

Morn · Mar 10, 2006, 03:54 AM

20% is minor. Nothing near the 400% speed up of G4 to core duo.

riotge@r · Mar 10, 2006, 04:13 AM

Waiting on computers is pointless. A computer is a tool. Get what you need now and upgrade when your needs surpass the performance you're getting.

Tomchu · Mar 10, 2006, 04:50 AM

Originally Posted by mduell

Actually, S478 isn't that hard to pull a processor out of, with pins intact.

/Been there
//Done that

Hah. I've been there and done that with a S939 CPU. The silly stock thermal interface material becomes almost glue-like after a few hours of use, and I tried taking off the heatsink only to pull the entire CPU out of its socket.

In any case, neither S478 or S939 CPUs will be going anywhere when bumped around in a laptop.

Eriamjh · Mar 10, 2006, 08:04 AM

Pfft. Merom is 4 to 7 months away. There better be 20% faster MBPs by then!
I'm more interested in dropping a Merom into the iMac!

Tuoder · Mar 10, 2006, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by F*ckDell

Are the new Intel Power Towers going to be better then the current Quad?

I'd bet some serious cash that they will be. I don't think that Apple would replace the Quad with a slower Intel. Not that it would be easy to top the Quad. I am thinking they will use 2 dual-core Xeons, maybe the next revision, whatever that is. I also think they will be able to ditch watercooling, but at the heat that those would put out, I think they will stay with water for volume.

But then, there I go, speculating off-topic.

Morn · Mar 10, 2006, 08:33 AM

The powermacs would use Intel's woodcrest which is essentially a server version of the merom. Dual woodcrest at around 3ghz probably, which would certainly be quite a lot faster than the quad g5. Apple wouldn't have switched to intel had their roadmap not been so good for 2006.

CaptainHaddock · Mar 10, 2006, 12:54 PM

Hm … the Quad is a multimedia machine, though. I'd bet money that four Woodcrests or Xeons will not be faster with media than four high-speed Altivec cores.

mduell · Mar 10, 2006, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by Morn

The powermacs would use Intel's woodcrest which is essentially a server version of the merom. Dual woodcrest at around 3ghz probably, which would certainly be quite a lot faster than the quad g5. Apple wouldn't have switched to intel had their roadmap not been so good for 2006.

I think they may go with Conroe and Kentsfield, so they only need a single socket on the logic board.

sc_markt · Mar 10, 2006, 11:31 PM

Originally Posted by Kenstee

"Merom," the successor to the "Yonah" Core Duo processor - now in the MBP - will provide about a 20 percent speed increase without drawing additional power... and will be here in the third quarter of this year!

http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1576

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060307/...tel_developers

You know, we have to admit that its NICE being flooded every month with new processor news.

I hope that Intel is working on designing in an on-board (integrated) memory controller in their future chips.

- Mark

spacefreak · Mar 11, 2006, 02:34 AM

Originally Posted by mintcake

Well yeah but Wimax is going to take a while to come onstream and when it does, well, that's what that Expresscard slot in your Macbook Pro is for, right?

Right. But won't I have a FireWire800 card in there?

Tuoder · Mar 11, 2006, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by spacefreak

Right. But won't I have a FireWire800 card in there?

I wonder if you can put two Expresscards into one slot, like you could with Type III PCMCIA slots. Those would take two type I or II cards. Hmmm.

Morn · Mar 11, 2006, 07:34 AM

I think they may go with Conroe and Kentsfield, so they only need a single socket on the logic board.

Not if they want a quad machine, conroe is dual core.

I hope that Intel is working on designing in an on-board (integrated) memory controller in their future chips.

Intel has said to the media that they aren't going to do this, they say it drives up production costs and wastes die space. They also said that increasing cache size is better use of die space.

CaptainHaddock · Mar 11, 2006, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by Tuoder

I wonder if you can put two Expresscards into one slot, like you could with Type III PCMCIA slots. Those would take two type I or II cards. Hmmm.

From looking at photos of the slot and cards, I think they take the whole slot. Those Type III PCMCIA slots actually had two slots stacked, and a Type III card was simply too fat to fit more than one at a time in the space.

With only one ExpressCard slot, there's no way Apple should be telling people to depend on add-on cards for basic functionality like Firewire. Pro notebooks should have built-in FW800 and e.SATA, I think.

romeosc · Mar 11, 2006, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by CaptainHaddock

From looking at photos of the slot and cards, I think they take the whole slot. Those Type III PCMCIA slots actually had two slots stacked, and a Type III card was simply too fat to fit more than one at a time in the space.

With only one ExpressCard slot, there's no way Apple should be telling people to depend on add-on cards for basic functionality like Firewire. Pro notebooks should have built-in FW800 and e.SATA, I think.

Someone will come out with an extension box that plugs into ExpressCard slot and allow multiple cards... but who will buy it!

Toyin · Mar 11, 2006, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by Eriamjh

Pfft. Merom is 4 to 7 months away. There better be 20% faster MBPs by then!
I'm more interested in dropping a Merom into the iMac!

I thought the 20% faster is per clock cycle. Cycle speeds are up to 2.33ghz now. So expect to see more than a 20% boost with no appreciable loss in battery life.

Several other factors will make Merom chips a nice upgrade from Yonah. They will have up to 4MB of L2 cache and be 64 bit. It would be nice to see another one or two RAM slots added to the Powerbook. Imagine 4gb on a PB (at least Rosetta will run smoother)

If you can wait, wait. My 1.5ghz PB is serving me very well. I definitely can wait a several months for Merom.

mduell · Mar 11, 2006, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by Morn

Not if they want a quad machine, conroe is dual core.

Which is why I said Conroe and Kentsfield, not just Conroe.

aristotles · Mar 11, 2006, 07:55 PM

People who say they will wait for rev b. are the same people who complain that Apple no longer support their G3 laptop officially.

Get whatever machine you want/need and be happy with it. If you feel you can wait a bit longer to get the next model, good on you.

Elixir · Mar 12, 2006, 12:04 AM

the speed increase with merom isn't the real significance of this new arch, its the power consumption. right now our macbooks barely get 4 hours, with merom this should easily be achieved.

we'll be seeing stuff like 6 hour solid battery life

rm199 · Mar 12, 2006, 01:08 AM

I'm not interested in Merom's speed increases, its the 64bit and virtualisation features that I can't wait for!

mduell · Mar 12, 2006, 01:15 AM

Originally Posted by Elixir

the speed increase with merom isn't the real significance of this new arch, its the power consumption. right now our macbooks barely get 4 hours, with merom this should easily be achieved.

we'll be seeing stuff like 6 hour solid battery life

I guess you missed the IDF keynote.
The Yonah->Merom upgrade pushes performance up >20%, but battery life is unchanged.

Elixir · Mar 12, 2006, 01:50 AM

the whole freaking buzz about this thing was it would run cooler, allowing faster speeds, same temp or less.

if a new merom chip is release dat 2.5ghz then it shold have battery better than or the same as the 2.1's.

even if its as good its still good, but i def was expecting better.

the new wireless technology is nice though.

i'll agree with most in the forum stating that the jump isn't as big as g4-yonah.

SEkker · Mar 13, 2006, 11:03 AM

I'm amazed this thread is still alive.

Moore's law (in any form you like) predicts a doubling of performance every 18 months.

Let's do the math -- in 9 months, we should be seeing ~40% speed jumps.

Sounds like Intel's roadmap is right on schedule. We'll be seeing revised MBPs, with some maybe even double the current speed, in the next 2 years.

Personally, I'm happy I ordered a revA MBP -- it's quite a speed jump over this three year old 1GHz revA PB17. Even in Rosetta, photoshop will be faster.

I am also glad that the iMac I just bought will likely be able to get a processor upgrade in a year or two -- just to keep it fresh.