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Audio Receivers... opinions?
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goMac
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Jul 28, 2009, 02:53 AM
 
I've been looking at the Sony STR-DN1000... The extra price over the lower end models isn't really a problem for me, but I was wondering if anyone had any other suggestions...

In theory I would like:
• Something to do at least 5.1 with good sound quality. I live in an apartment right now, so I want something that will work with the speakers I have without blowing away the neighbors, with room to upgrade later after I move. If I do 5.1 here, I probably won't do a subwoofer right now, even though I'd love to... (I have neighbors below...)
• Something with HDMI inputs, preferably with 1080p upconversion. I have a Samsung LNS-4096 as my TV right now, with a TiVo and an XB360, so I'm all out of inputs, and I'd like to at least add maybe an AppleTV and maybe a Bluray player...
•*Upscaling over component would be nice, I have a Wii...
• XM compatibility. I know the Sony receiver doesn't have this, it has Sirius. In looking I haven't found many new receivers with XM, and I'm willing to hold out hope, however misguided, that I'll eventually be able to use my existing XM account with a Sirius radio. But if there is a better option out there with XM, I'm listening.
• HD radio isn't necessary, I'm not a fan of the radio here anyway.
• Something easy to configure. I have a Harmony, so I'm not as worried about input switching. But the STR-DN1000 has an XMB interface, which seems nice in theory, but I can't find any shots of it in action.

Link to the STR-DN1000:
http://b2b.sony.com/Solutions/produc...yf-dnser-11753

(Amazon has it for like $340)
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ghporter
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Jul 28, 2009, 08:15 AM
 
Have you looked at Sony's STR-DG models? I'm planning on getting an STR-DG720 in the near term future-it has three HDMI inputs, three component inputs, three composite inputs, lots of other non-video inputs, and an XM-in port. Yes, XM. The receiver doesn't have the XM receiver IN it, you need an external satellite receiver with a mini-USB out, but they're available. And configuring the STR-DG series through its built in menu system, while not "a snap," is pretty straightforward. The only thing I don't think it does is upconvert signals by itself... (Just checked-it doesn't upconvert.)
( Last edited by ghporter; Jul 28, 2009 at 08:16 AM. Reason: Update info.)

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Jul 28, 2009, 09:33 AM
 
(Onkyo)
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Jul 28, 2009, 10:13 AM
 
This may be sacrilege to some, but to preempt some of the golden ears here, IMO for general advice... You'll get far better bang for the buck by spending the money on features (like HDMI inputs and upconversion) and speakers than so-called perceived receiver amp quality, at least when you're dealing with non-uber-high-end speakers. Sony receivers often fit that bill, although IIRC the lower end ones don't upconvert or decode audio over HDMI.

That said, Sony's STR-DG models are notoriously underpowered. Their wattage ratings are in no way comparable to a more conservatively rated units like the aforementioned Onkyo. The STR-DG models are some of the few "name-brand" units above 100 Watts that I'd be wary of when using inefficient full tower speakers.

That said, I own three STR-DG models, because I bought all three for under $500 combined on closeout, and I don't max them out with my room sizes, speakers, and listening habits.
     
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Jul 28, 2009, 02:14 PM
 
I have the onkyo tx-sr605 and it works great for my needs. I got it for about $300 bucks 3 years ago or so, I'm sure there is a newer model by now... but at the time I did a lot of research and it seemed to me like everyone recommended Onkyos in the "lower" price ranges I was looking at.

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goMac  (op)
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Jul 28, 2009, 03:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by RAILhead View Post
(Onkyo)
How is Onkyo's upconversion and image processing?

Again, I'm not going to be insanely picky about sound quality, I think Eug is on target with features over sound quality...

That said, I don't want something that sounds like trash either.
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Jul 28, 2009, 03:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by RAILhead View Post
(Onkyo)
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ort888
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Jul 28, 2009, 03:15 PM
 
From what I understand you really don't want your receiver upscaling. Leave that to your TV.

My Onkyo doesn't do scaling at all. It will only pass a signal. If I have it coming in via Componant, it has to leave via component, if it comes in via HDMI, it needs to leave as HDMI. Newer models might have changed this though, I don't know. It wasn't a big deal for me.

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Jul 28, 2009, 03:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by RAILhead View Post
(Onkyo)
I agree. Also, there's Yamaha, HK, and Denon, three other high quality "value" brands.

I'm just not impressed with Sony's build quality on the low end. Their non-ES units are just sad, pitiful little creatures compared to models from other manufacturers in this range. If they claim 100W you can be sure that the reality is closer to 50. But, If you're going to use high efficiency monitors, such as Klipsch, it will make little difference. (Personally, I can't stand horns, but to each their own.)

Now, the Sony ES series is another story, but you'll pay a premium for them.
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Shaddim
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Jul 28, 2009, 03:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by goMac View Post
How is Onkyo's upconversion and image processing?
No consumer receiver does proper upconversion in this price range.
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goMac  (op)
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Jul 28, 2009, 03:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
No consumer receiver does proper upconversion in this price range.
What sort of price range would I have to get into to do good upconversion?

NM: It looks like about $700...
( Last edited by goMac; Jul 28, 2009 at 04:11 PM. )
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ort888
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Jul 28, 2009, 04:15 PM
 
What exactly are you trying to upconvert? DVDs? Standard Def TV?

I think upconversion is overrated. But that's just me. I'm not a videophile or anything, but I can never tell the difference.

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iM@k
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Jul 28, 2009, 04:21 PM
 
I also say Onkyo! I have the Sr-TX606 (since updated to the 607.

What I love about mine is from the receiver to the TV, I only have to have one HDMI cable going to it. The reiver takes all incoming connection, both digital and analog and sends it through the HDMI. You have the option having the reciever going to upconvert but in my case I find my Sony Bravia does it better, so the reciever is just for audio and source selection convenience.
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Jul 28, 2009, 04:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
What exactly are you trying to upconvert? DVDs? Standard Def TV?

I think upconversion is overrated. But that's just me. I'm not a videophile or anything, but I can never tell the difference.
Good upconversion is helpful. Mind you I have a video projector (90" image), and I don't actually use my receiver to do it.

My upconversion is just good, not great, but it was gonna cost hundreds of dollars more to get better upconversion, so I thought I'd just wait for the Blu-ray player prices to drop.
     
goMac  (op)
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Jul 28, 2009, 05:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
What exactly are you trying to upconvert? DVDs? Standard Def TV?

I think upconversion is overrated. But that's just me. I'm not a videophile or anything, but I can never tell the difference.
Anything not being output at 1080p. So stuff like my TiVo when it shifts to native output...

Funny thing is though, I get enough HD stations now that my TiVo hardly ever records anything in SD now, so I dunno... (My TiVo does native resolution output).

Money isn't a huge issue, and any sort of component upscaling would definitely be nice.
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SSharon
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Jul 28, 2009, 07:11 PM
 
I was thinking about starting a thread similar to this the other week. I had wanted to ask if anyone knew anything about this receiver Home Theater & Sound Equipment Review -- Cambridge Audio Azur 640R Audio/Video Receiver (6/2007) and whether there are better options. My dad is looking at this model and I don't know enough to tell him whether it is a good unit.
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Jul 28, 2009, 07:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by SSharon View Post
I was thinking about starting a thread similar to this the other week. I had wanted to ask if anyone knew anything about this receiver Home Theater & Sound Equipment Review -- Cambridge Audio Azur 640R Audio/Video Receiver (6/2007) and whether there are better options. My dad is looking at this model and I don't know enough to tell him whether it is a good unit.
Maybe it's a good quality unit, but I wouldn't pay US$1400 for a unit that didn't decode audio over HDMI.
     
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Jul 28, 2009, 07:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Maybe it's a good quality unit, but I wouldn't pay US$1400 for a unit that didn't decode audio over HDMI.
Well ignore that price it was just the first site I googled. I've seen it elsewhere for half the price.
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Jul 28, 2009, 10:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
That said, Sony's STR-DG models are notoriously underpowered. Their wattage ratings are in no way comparable to a more conservatively rated units like the aforementioned Onkyo. The STR-DG models are some of the few "name-brand" units above 100 Watts that I'd be wary of when using inefficient full tower speakers.

That said, I own three STR-DG models, because I bought all three for under $500 combined on closeout, and I don't max them out with my room sizes, speakers, and listening habits.
I'm the kind of person who likes to have 1000W available and only uses 200. By not getting anywhere near the extreme end of the amp's capability, I can get (generally) cleaner sound that's more than ample to fill my house with music or movie sound. So far, my current amp, a STR-DG600 has never been turned up past 40 (I don't know this for a fact, but I think it goes to 99) and depending on the source that will either be quite loud or deafening. Through two two-way speakers... My biggest problem with choosing a receiver for my upcoming entry into the home theater realm of the very late 20th century is choosing additional speakers for either 5.1 or 7.1/7.2...

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Jul 29, 2009, 07:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
That said, I own three STR-DG models, because I bought all three for under $500 combined on closeout, and I don't max them out with my room sizes, speakers, and listening habits.
Actually, around $400 combined now that I think of it. All floor models, after they were discontinued.

I have the STR-DG500, STR-DG520, and STR-DG800. The 800 and 520 both have two non-upconverting HDMI inputs, which fortunately is all I need at the moment. The 800 system is my main projector system though, and I'll probably need some more inputs later. I'm waiting for a good quality unit for a 3-digit $ price with 4 HDMI inputs and audio decoding over HDMI.


Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
I'm the kind of person who likes to have 1000W available and only uses 200. By not getting anywhere near the extreme end of the amp's capability, I can get (generally) cleaner sound that's more than ample to fill my house with music or movie sound. So far, my current amp, a STR-DG600 has never been turned up past 40 (I don't know this for a fact, but I think it goes to 99) and depending on the source that will either be quite loud or deafening. Through two two-way speakers... My biggest problem with choosing a receiver for my upcoming entry into the home theater realm of the very late 20th century is choosing additional speakers for either 5.1 or 7.1/7.2...
All three of mine (including the STR-DG800) go up to 74, although I probably wouldn't use anything above 60 regularly.

I regularly use my receiver in the high 40s to the low to mid 50s. If I had less efficient speakers and a bigger room, I'd easily hit the 60s. That's why I find it hard to recommend the Sonys in this class as a general recommendation. They value features over performance. What I mean by "performance" is volume, not quality. I think the sound quality is just fine at mid power, but they don't have the strength to power more difficult systems. I just happened to know my setups didn't require so much power, so they were fine for me.

It seems some of the lower end Sony STR-DG systems no longer exist, as they have been replaced by the Sony STR-DH. Until someone tells me otherwise I would assume they are just rehashes, and the amplifiers are similarly weak.
     
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Jul 29, 2009, 07:34 AM
 
i'm moving from a two channel setup to a 5.1 home theater setup. so i think my best option is to find a decent av receiver with preamp outputs for the main channels, and drive my mains from my existing amp. i'm hoping that maintains good music reproduction while adding a home theater movie experience. the onkyo tx-sr706 is on the list.
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Jul 29, 2009, 08:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by dav View Post
i'm moving from a two channel setup to a 5.1 home theater setup. so i think my best option is to find a decent av receiver with preamp outputs for the main channels, and drive my mains from my existing amp. i'm hoping that maintains good music reproduction while adding a home theater movie experience. the onkyo tx-sr706 is on the list.
In this sort of setup, one thing you will really want to do to maintain sound quality is use VERY good cabling to connect any preamp outputs to your power amp. Sure, you might see spools of "stereo cable" that are rated on the label as "up to 800w," but at such power levels most cabling I've seen would likely get quite warm...

Use wire rated at much higher than what you'll be pushing and you'll get better sound quality. I'm a "14 gauge and bigger" kind of person myself-any new connections between components and between amps and speakers will be at least 14 ga wire, even if it's "just" between a preamp and a power amp."

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Jul 29, 2009, 08:31 AM
 
Originally Posted by dav View Post
i'm moving from a two channel setup to a 5.1 home theater setup. so i think my best option is to find a decent av receiver with preamp outputs for the main channels, and drive my mains from my existing amp. i'm hoping that maintains good music reproduction while adding a home theater movie experience. the onkyo tx-sr706 is on the list.
Lots of receivers have that option.

However, most people never bother to use it. For music reproduction usually you just run in stereo anyway, so you may as well just use the Onkyo in stereo mode for your mains. The music reproduction will likely be just fine.


Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
In this sort of setup, one thing you will really want to do to maintain sound quality is use VERY good cabling to connect any preamp outputs to your power amp. Sure, you might see spools of "stereo cable" that are rated on the label as "up to 800w," but at such power levels most cabling I've seen would likely get quite warm...

Use wire rated at much higher than what you'll be pushing and you'll get better sound quality. I'm a "14 gauge and bigger" kind of person myself-any new connections between components and between amps and speakers will be at least 14 ga wire, even if it's "just" between a preamp and a power amp."
Not really. Preamp connections are very, very short, and the power running through them are low voltage.
     
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Jul 29, 2009, 08:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
I regularly use my receiver in the high 40s to the low to mid 50s. If I had less efficient speakers and a bigger room, I'd easily hit the 60s. That's why I find it hard to recommend the Sonys in this class as a general recommendation. They value features over performance. What I mean by "performance" is volume, not quality. I think the sound quality is just fine at mid power, but they don't have the strength to power more difficult systems. I just happened to know my setups didn't require so much power, so they were fine for me.

It seems some of the lower end Sony STR-DG systems no longer exist, as they have been replaced by the Sony STR-DH. Until someone tells me otherwise I would assume they are just rehashes, and the amplifiers are similarly weak.
Considering the size of my room and the materials in the walls, I think I'll still be running at about 40-45 at most no matter what my source is. I only need to go to 40 or so with my optical-connected DVD player (for some reason this input acts like it is lower at the input port than simple RCA inputs from other components are), and I'm expecting that a player with HDMI outputs would provide at least this level of input.

You're right about the lower-end STR-DG systems being replaced by what I consider "lesser" STR-DH products. The DH line seems to have fewer inputs and less flexibility for configuring those inputs.

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Jul 29, 2009, 09:19 AM
 
Sony STR-6800SD! Dolby FM FTW baby! Woohoo!

No?
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dav
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Jul 29, 2009, 09:30 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
For music reproduction usually you just run in stereo anyway, so you may as well just use the Onkyo in stereo mode for your mains. The music reproduction will likely be just fine.
the mains are 4ohm though, and i'm happy how they pair with the amp.
i'm a little tentative about dropping the existing preamp, but i'm sure the difference between preamp's is negligible.

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Jul 29, 2009, 09:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by dav View Post
the mains are 4ohm though, and i'm happy how they pair with the amp.
Fair enough. It couldn't hurt to try the Onkyo though.

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Jul 29, 2009, 02:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Not really. Preamp connections are very, very short, and the power running through them are low voltage.
It really isn't the cabling, it's the connectors. In an analog interconnect, just about any copper will do*, but a high-quality, locking connector is a must.


* That said, I prefer silver. It's very subtle, but on some material I can tell a difference.
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Jul 29, 2009, 04:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Not really. Preamp connections are very, very short, and the power running through them are low voltage.
I'd still use heavier gauge wire than is "absolutely necessary." Larger wire means thicker insulation, which separates the pairs more, reducing capacitive and inductive issues between the conductors. While a 20ga pair may work fine for a preamp-to-power amp connection, a 14ga or 12ga connection would be a better bet for the potential to maintain fidelity. The problem is finding the right cables, because a lot of amps built for such connections need specialized connectors.

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Jul 29, 2009, 04:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
I'd still use heavier gauge wire than is "absolutely necessary." Larger wire means thicker insulation, which separates the pairs more
Ironically sometimes the opposite is true. Many cheap noname cables have thicker insulation to fool the purchasers into thinking they're getting more copper.

While a 20ga pair may work fine for a preamp-to-power amp connection, a 14ga or 12ga connection would be a better bet for the potential to maintain fidelity.
It doesn't hurt to overspec, except when it does. 12 gauge is very thick and is very expensive.
     
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Jul 29, 2009, 05:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
It doesn't hurt to overspec, except when it does. 12 gauge is very thick and is very expensive.
The whole issue comes down to what kind of connectors you need and whether you can find "more than adequate" cables with those connectors. Given the option, I'd spend more money and get thicker cables, but that option isn't always there...

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