[wallinbl]

I just saw a bumper sticker that said:

"My child is a honor student at Woodbridge Elementary"

I'm completely speechless.

[Millennium]

My wife is a Latin teacher. Her earliest classes are full of eighth- and ninth-graders, and in the first few classes she has to go over things like what a noun is, because most of her students don't know such basic grammatical concepts as parts of speech anymore.

Given this, I'd argue that no, we're not teaching English anymore. We're giving students a bunch of reading to do, but not really bothering with the whole idea of teaching them how to write. How can you hope to use a language effectively if you don't know how the language even works?

[iMOTOR]

"Honk if your child are a honor student too"

[sek929]

More testing, less comprehension...thats the American school's way!

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by wallinbl

I just saw a bumper sticker that said:

"My child is a honor student at Woodbridge Elementary"

I'm completely speechless.

Nope. I don't get it. What's wrong with that? (aside from the wilful misspelling of "honour")

[Y3a]

So, Is it the "NCLB" strategy,
or the lack of decent teachers,
or the politization of the school administrations,
or teachers unions?

Maybe a combination??

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by sek929

More testing, less comprehension...thats the American school's way!

schools'

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Nope. I don't get it. What's wrong with that? (aside from the wilful misspelling of "honour")

Did you go to Woodbridge?

Should be "an" instead of "a".

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by wallinbl

Did you go to Woodbridge?

Should be "an" instead of "a".

"A" herb?
"An" herb?

[analogika]

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

schools'

How do YOU know he wasn't referring to one single school?

[Salty]

It should read my kid's an honour student. Not a honour student.

But yes, and for the record when you try and learn a new language it's harder if you don't know your own.

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by Doofy

"A" herb?
"An" herb?

Well, yes, in cases where a word starts with a vowel sound, you use "an", even if it actually begins with a consonant. At least, that's what I learned.

So, "My daughter is an honor student", and "Basil is an herb", but "Losman is a horrible quarterback."

[OldManMac]

One wouldn't know if we taught English currently, with some of the postings here, such as meh, and teh.

We probably don't teach English any more, but it would difficult to discern if we taught it any less, as well.

[saddino]

Originally Posted by Salty

But yes, and for the record when you try and learn a new language it's harder if you don't know your own.

By "don't know your own" do you mean like using "prolly" instead of "probably"?

[tracemhunter]

my teachers rarely taught us any of the parts of sentences. all we did was read and take tests. there were barely any grammar lessons in my classes. i would change that bumper sticker to, "my stupid son knocked up your honor student daughter" or "my child doesn't need a bumper sticker praising his/her minor academic achievements".

[SVass]

Originally Posted by Y3a

So, Is it the "NCLB" strategy,
or the lack of decent teachers,
or the politization of the school administrations,
or teachers unions?

Maybe a combination??

None of the above.

I saw a citation from Bill Bennett today, who said that he wanted the public schools to fail in order to enhance the switch to charter schools. Thus, the leaders of the RIGHT wants to "dumb down" our schools. It is true that many other supporters on both political sides are ignorant of science, mathematics beyond arithmetic, and economics which enables the power madto line their own pockets with money and achieve a life of luxury and non responsible power. sam

[TheMosco]

Originally Posted by Y3a

So, Is it the "NCLB" strategy,
or the lack of decent teachers,
or the politization of the school administrations,
or teachers unions?

Maybe a combination??

I have 2 family members in education. We discus education often. I blame the education problems on the lack of a stable ciriculum and the ever changing requirements. I am not sure what other states are like, but Massachusetts is a mess. School administrators are def part of the problem.

teachers unions? I would argue that without teachers unions, you would lose a large number of quality educators.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Dork.

Well, yes, in cases where a word starts with a vowel sound, you use "an", even if it actually begins with a consonant. At least, that's what I learned.

They never taught us that. Just the vowel/consonant thing.

Originally Posted by Dork.

So, "My daughter is an honor student", and "Basil is an herb", but "Losman is a horrible quarterback."

We pronounce "herb" with the "h" intact here.

Do we pronounce "honour" with the "h" intact? I can't remember the last time I heard anyone say it.

Hence

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by KarlG

One wouldn't know if we taught English currently, with some of the postings here, such as meh, and teh.

I always thought "meh" was supposed to be onomatopoeic, representing a sort of uninterested grunt. Example: "Meh; I don't really care one way or the other." I think it comes from Yiddish.

I'll give you "teh" though. I occasionally use it as an adverb meaning "extremely", but I suppose that's teh awful from a grammatical standpoint.

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by Doofy

We pronounce "herb" with the "h" intact here.

Well, we don't. Although, I'm not sure who you mean by "We", though. I grew up in Brooklyn. Maybe that's the one thing I learned correctly

I do pronounce the H in the short form of the name "Herbert", though.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Dork.

Although, I'm not sure who you mean by "We", though.

The English.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Doofy

They never taught us that. Just the vowel/consonant thing.

You are kidding, right? Please, tell me you're kidding!

You wouldn't say 'a hour', would you? Or 'an union'?

[Chuckit]

Don't worry. Our children is learning.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Oisín

You are kidding, right? Please, tell me you're kidding!

Nope, not kidding.

Originally Posted by Oisín

You wouldn't say 'a hour', would you? Or 'an union'?

"Union" is obvious. I'm more interested in the pronunciation of words beginning with "H". For example, we say "a herb" but the Americans say "an herb". Yet we both say "an hour". I'm trying to suss whether it's completely random or not.

[tooki]

The thing is, the a/an rule is, at its core, entirely sound-based. It's based on whether the following word begins with a consonant sound or a vowel sound, regardless of how it's spelled.

That's why it's "an hour" but "a home". "Herb" has two accepted pronunciations, so in written form, a and an are both correct. Some dialects/speakers use "an" before the "h" sound (as in "an historic moment").

tooki

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by tooki

Some dialects/speakers use "an" before the "h" sound (as in "an historic moment").

This is not so much a dialect difference as it is an intentional change before certain words. Speakers who would say "an historic moment" would still not say "I stood on top of an hill" (assuming they pronounce the "h" in both words). It's kind of a codified misuse that's generally taught rather than acquired naturally.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Doofy

"Union" is obvious. I'm more interested in the pronunciation of words beginning with "H". For example, we say "a herb" but the Americans say "an herb". Yet we both say "an hour". I'm trying to suss whether it's completely random or not.

That's because you say "herb" while Americans say "erb." There is no H-sound in the American pronunciation, thus we use "an."

[malvolio]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Do we pronounce "honour" with the "h" intact? I can't remember the last time I heard anyone say it.

Hence

No, you drop the "h". At least, you did in the Victorian (or was it Edwardian?) Era.
As evidence, here is a catchy little poem from The Pearl:

She offered her honour,
And he honoured her offer.
So all night long
It was honour and offer.

[JoshuaZ]

I teach English every day. Sadly my kids usually have probablems with their Ls and Rs, but go figure.

PS:　Upper midwest US has the best non-accent.

[malvolio]

Originally Posted by JoshuaZ

PS:　Upper midwest US has the best non-accent.

Not if you go too far up. I'm originally from the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, and up there we sound like Canadians, eh.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Dork.

Well, yes, in cases where a word starts with a vowel sound, you use "an", even if it actually begins with a consonant. At least, that's what I learned.

It's the difference between an aspirate "h" as in horrible or an un-aspirate "h" as in honor. If the leading "h" is silent (un-aspirated) you precede it with the article "an".

[FulcrumPilot]

Americans should take up Russian.

http://learnrussian.hut1.ru/

[Nodnarb]

Originally Posted by tracemhunter

my teachers rarely taught us any of the parts of sentences. all we did was read and take tests. there were barely any grammar lessons in my classes. i would change that bumper sticker to, "my stupid son knocked up your honor student daughter" or "my child doesn't need a bumper sticker praising his/her minor academic achievements".

Listen to George Carlin lately?

[meelk]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,171070,00.html

NEW YORK — "American Idol" winner Fantasia Barrino (search) reveals in her memoirs that she is functionally illiterate and had to fake her way through some scripted portions the televised talent show, which she won in 2004.

[lavar78]

Losman isn't a horrible quarterback; he's just inexperienced. He'll get better.

[GenoG]

I learned more about English grammar while learning spanish, than I did in any English class. In order to learn verbs, nouns etc. in Spanish, I had to teach myself what they were in english.

[lavar78]

I learned all of the parts of speech in elementary school back in the '80s.

[JoshuaZ]

Originally Posted by malvolio

Not if you go too far up. I'm originally from the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, and up there we sound like Canadians, eh.

Good gravy no! Upper Minnesota really is bad. Theres like this weird circle of goodness that includes most of iowa, southern Minnesota, eastern Wisconsin, and bits of South Dakota and Nebraska. Its odd, but yet cool.

At least we can all agree to dislike deep southern drawl. Nothing made my campus work study more annoying then having to call the deep south where an entire sentences were packed into one word.

[Cubeoid]

I used to be a great English teacher until it made me sick to my stomach.

[isao bered]

Originally Posted by JoshuaZ

At least we can all agree to dislike deep southern drawl.

?! uhm. no "we" can't. some of "us" find a deep southern drawl spoken by a lady quite enticing. :-)

be well.

laeth

[ajblackx]

The Use and Non-Use of Articles

Brought to you by the Purdue University Online Writing Lab.
Grahpics for this handout were produced by Michelle Hansard.
Definition of articles

English has two types of articles: definite (the) and indefinite (a, an.) The use of these articles depends mainly on whether you are referring to any member of a group, or to a specific member of a group:


1. Indefinite Articles: a and an

A and an signal that the noun modified is indefinite, referring to any member of a group. These indefinite articles are used with singular nouns when the noun is general; the corresponding indefinite quantity word some is used for plural general nouns. The rule is:

* a + singular noun beginning with a consonant: a boy
* an + singular noun beginning with a vowel: an elephant
* a + singular noun beginning with a consonant sound: a user (sounds like 'yoo-zer,' i.e. begins with a consonant 'y' sound, so 'a' is used)
* some + plural noun: some girls

If the noun is modified by an adjective, the choice between a and an depends on the initial sound of the adjective that immedately follows the article:

* a broken egg
* an unusual problem
* a European country (sounds like 'yer-o-pi-an,' i.e. begins with consonant 'y' sound)

Note also that in English, the indefinite articles are used to indicate membership in a profession, nation, or religion.

* I am a teacher.
* Brian is an Irishman.
* Seiko is a practicing Buddhist.

[JoshuaZ]

Originally Posted by isao bered

?! uhm. no "we" can't. some of "us" find a deep southern drawl spoken by a lady quite enticing. :-)

be well.

laeth

Southern? Lady? Hmm.... I'll let you know when I find one.

According to my English friend none of us darned Americans speak proper English. Then again, my New Zealander co-worker keeps breaking out sentences that no one can understand. Where the heck do they get away with calling things 'jandles.' (AKA Flip flops in the USA)

[Xserve@home]

Originally Posted by TheMosco

... I am not sure what other states are like, but Massachusetts is a mess. School administrators are def part of the problem. ...

I went through the Brookline school system and I thought it was okay. Boston public schools have always been a mess.

When I was in high school, 1990~1994, the teachers went on strike. I remember it had something to do with their contracts.

[Maflynn]

Me speak goodly inglish, because mine skool t3acher speak to me and said so.

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by JoshuaZ

Southern? Lady? Hmm.... I'll let you know when I find one.

Where are you? They're everywhere, and they're lovely.

[tooki]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

It's the difference between an aspirate "h" as in horrible or an un-aspirate "h" as in honor. If the leading "h" is silent (un-aspirated) you precede it with the article "an".

No, it's not aspiration, it's plain and simply the presence or absence of the [h] sound. Don't confound spelling and pronunciation: it's English, and the presence of a letter in the spelling is no guarantee that any sound has to be in that position in the pronunciation.

tooki

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by tooki

No, it's not aspiration, it's plain and simply the presence or absence of the [h] sound. Don't confound spelling and pronunciation: it's English, and the presence of a letter in the spelling is no guarantee that any sound has to be in that position in the pronunciation.

Well, since the [h] is not much other than pure aspiration, an unaspirated h leaves more or less nothing behind. Though of course you're right in saying that it's complete absence of an h sound, rather than just an unaspiration of it that happens in English.

Quite the opposite of French, one might say, where they have (what they call) aspirated and unaspirated h's, neither of which is pronounced at all

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by tooki

No, it's not aspiration, it's plain and simply the presence or absence of the [h] sound. Don't confound spelling and pronunciation: it's English, and the presence of a letter in the spelling is no guarantee that any sound has to be in that position in the pronunciation.

tooki

True. It is not phologically determined that "h" will always be pronounced in a specific way. But in English a word-initial "h" is pronounced in only one of two ways, either aspirate or un-aspirate. There is no other way to pronounce it. Show me a word with an initial "h" that doesn't have one of these two pronunciations.

[ReggieX]

I would also blame the moronic parents who can't stand to see their "perfect" sons and daughers put even the slightest effort into their school work, lest they fail miserably.

Originally Posted by Millennium

I'll give you "teh" though. I occasionally use it as an adverb meaning "extremely", but I suppose that's teh awful from a grammatical standpoint.

Every time I see "teh" I want to pummel the writer. Hard.