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Big Mac · Dec 15, 2011, 06:13 AM

I just sold a small electronics item on eBay to a buyer with 0 feedback. Other than getting the payment from him ahead of shipping it, what can I do to protect myself from possible fraud? This guy had the nerve to ask me how he could be sure I wasn't selling a defective item given that I wasn't providing a return policy option. I don't want him claiming he never received it or saying it's defective when it's not.

Tips? It's not the $15 I really care about-rather it's the hassle of having to dispute any false claim made and keep my pristine 100% feedback.

Waragainstsleep · Dec 15, 2011, 06:29 AM

Make sure you can track it, require a signature on delivery, keep the receipt when you ship it. I doubt anyone would go to the trouble of committing fraud for $15 though. For larger purchases I used to transfer the funds out of Paypal before shipping items. Paypal are way too keen to give your money back for you without your permission.

Doofy · Dec 15, 2011, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

This guy had the nerve to ask me how he could be sure I wasn't selling a defective item given that I wasn't providing a return policy option.

That ain't "the nerve" - that's "the common sense".

Big Mac · Dec 15, 2011, 10:56 AM

Except I have 100% feedback with dozens of transactions, and he has 0 feedback. I shouldn't be the one treated with skepticism, especially not by an account with that status. Asking about whether the item is defective off the bat, coupled with 0 feedback, makes me think he's going to screw me over.

SpaceMonkey · Dec 15, 2011, 10:59 AM

It sounds like both sides are going a little overboard over $15.

ShortcutToMoncton · Dec 15, 2011, 10:59 AM

Take a dated picture/video of you putting working item in box. Takes an extra minute and can become very helpful if any problems.

I bought an electronics item online about a year ago and it arrived in damaged condition; seller claimed it was shipping and he might've been right, but the poor guy hadn't documented anything. I think he eventually got his claim but it's a lot of dicking around of course.

Big Mac · Dec 15, 2011, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey

It sounds like both sides are going a little overboard over $15.

As I said, it's not the money. I have a thing about guarding my 100% feedback rating.

Shortcut, I thought about doing just that. Thank you for the extra encouragement.

imitchellg5 · Dec 15, 2011, 11:21 AM

If he gives you bad feedback for no reason, you can always dispute it with eBay. They almost always will side with the seller, as long as the listing showed pictures of whatever the item is actually working, and you have decent feedback.

SpaceMonkey · Dec 15, 2011, 11:27 AM

This is probably why I don't use eBay.

Dec 15, 2011, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

As I said, it's not the money. I have a thing about guarding my 100% feedback rating.

Here's a novel thought - trust him. Collect payment, send package with tracking number as soon as possible.

Just dispute a bad rating if you get one. Obviously the guy is new to eBay - give him a chance.

andi*pandi · Dec 15, 2011, 12:51 PM

Wouldn't it not be worth returning the $15 item? He'd have to ship it back to you before you do a refund.

Athens · Dec 15, 2011, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

Except I have 100% feedback with dozens of transactions, and he has 0 feedback. I shouldn't be the one treated with skepticism, especially not by an account with that status. Asking about whether the item is defective off the bat, coupled with 0 feedback, makes me think he's going to screw me over.

Probably very new to ebay considering he has 0 feed back, takes a while for people to get comfortable. He might not fully understand or appreciate your 100% positive feed back. I myself have yet to ever use ebay out of concerns of scammers, defective items and so forth.

Big Mac · Dec 15, 2011, 01:20 PM

Yeah, I'm probably over thinking it. OTOH, he hasn't paid yet so maybe I won't even get to the point of shipping it to him.

I understand that this guy could be new to eBay, that's fine. 0 feedback makes me leery though, just as a fresh member to the forums who behaves like a spammer makes us leery.

ShortcutToMoncton · Dec 15, 2011, 02:11 PM

Ahhhhh yes....I remember the original Dakar, too

Mrjinglesusa · Dec 15, 2011, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by Athens

Probably very new to ebay considering he has 0 feed back, takes a while for people to get comfortable. He might not fully understand or appreciate your 100% positive feed back. I myself have yet to ever use ebay out of concerns of scammers, defective items and so forth.

I've been using eBay (Buying and Selling) for almost 10 years. I've purchased everything from T-shirts to electronic devices and sold tons of cell phones and other electronics (even Mac computers).

I use common sense: I don't sell to users with 0 or negative feedback (this is stated in my listings) and I only buy from established users (99% or higher feedback with more than 10 seller transactions). I have the Paypal keyfob required for logging in to prevent my account getting hacked.

I've NEVER been scammed, received a defective product, or had a user complain about something I sold them. IMO, people who get scammed on eBay get scammed because they don't use common sense, i.e., buying a $1,000 item from someone with 0 feedback who joined the day the listing was made, selling to someone who joined the day they made their bid, etc.

Overall, if you consider the sheer volume of things sold on eBay on a daily basis the number of scams taking place is minuscule.

andi*pandi · Dec 15, 2011, 02:56 PM

If everyone never did business with someone with 0 feedback, no one would ever get feedback... or something.

Except the scammers who create 10 accounts for themselves to bump up their feedback ratings, raise bids on their items...

Mrjinglesusa · Dec 15, 2011, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

If everyone never did business with someone with 0 feedback, no one would ever get feedback... or something.

Except the scammers who create 10 accounts for themselves to bump up their feedback ratings, raise bids on their items...

Yeah, I should have qualified that. If I'm selling something for less than $50 or so, I don't care if the buyer has 0 feedback. However, if I'm selling an iMac for $1,000, you can be sure that I'm not selling to a new member with 0 feedback.

I think it's more important to not BUY expensive items from someone with 0 feedback. They get your money FIRST and then ship. Too easy to get scammed that way.

Big Mac · Dec 15, 2011, 04:16 PM

A person with 0 feedback can buy things, pay for them quickly and get positive feedback. This guy hasn't even paid quickly.

Doofy · Dec 15, 2011, 04:30 PM

Annnnd that's why your economy's knackered. Everything must be now now now. F me Biggie, the dude might actually have a job or something and thus be unable to comply within the 15 nanoseconds you think is "quick payment".

Waragainstsleep · Dec 15, 2011, 06:07 PM

I've been using eBay for about 12 years now. Its gone downhill in many ways since then but it still has its uses. Finding used bargains is much harder than it was back then, especially Apple ones. Its very good for finding new items if you don't want to pay high street overheads.

"Weird Al" Yankovic "Ebay - YouTube

Face Ache · Dec 15, 2011, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep

Finding used bargains is much harder than it was back then...

So many idiots bidding early and often.

jmiddel · Dec 15, 2011, 09:21 PM

I only use PayPal for selling and buying on eBay. They have a dispute resolution process if the need arises.

Big Mac · 05:15 AM

Update: The buyer did pay, and he was sent his item hours later. I just left positive feedback. Hopefully the transaction continues to go smoothly. I took a video showing the item functioning and took a picture of the package before mailing it, just as a precaution. Shipping cost twice as much as I charged, but that's okay. I would have donated it otherwise. Thanks for all the responses guys.

Originally Posted by Doofy

Annnnd that's why your economy's knackered. Everything must be now now now. F me Biggie, the dude might actually have a job or something and thus be unable to comply within the 15 nanoseconds you think is "quick payment".

It's just my view, but a $15 item should be paid for very soon after the auction has closed. That's how I do things, at least, I promptly pay others and expect prompt payment. I don't think that expectation is why the economy is knackered though. It's not the foreclosure or jobs crisis we're talking about here, it's a cheap used gaming controller.

Waragainstsleep · Dec 19, 2011, 06:33 AM

eBay never used to be so much about getting things fast. It used to be perfectly acceptable to take a few days to ship something when you had the time, nowadays people expect you to go out of your way to ship them even the most inconsequential objects. I once had someone launch a dispute because an item hadn't arrived within 2 days or so. I hadn't even posted it, some of us have better things to do than take time off work to stand in line at the Post Office.

Paypal and its dispute resolution process is whats wrong with eBay nowadays. They are way way too protective of buyers and sellers have become 5th class citizens by comparison. This is fine for people selling on a scale, for a living, but for the individuals its unfair and foolish because it jeopardises what eBay was originally about which is what made it good. Its become a lot like Amazon with all its professional sellers. These days its a good way to find certain things at the best prices you can get them for because there are so many people selling stuff with 2% mark ups, but you just can't find the little gems that used to be common place as easily as you could a few years ago.

I shipped an item a couple of years ago and the recipient claimed it was damaged when it arrived but still working (it was a turntable), just got a dent in transit. Since I had insured it, I told him to provide me pictures so I could claim the insurance and that if he did so he could have a refund and more than likely keep the item too. He agreed to do this but despite numerous attempts to chase him for the pictures, he sent the item back without telling me, his courier made no attempt to actually deliver it (no card left at my door) and eventually they returned it to him. He gave Paypal the courier receipt and they refunded him the money and put my balance to -£80. Luckily I had suffered at their hands before so I cleared my paypal account out before posting the item so they couldn't just help themselves to my cash (it wasn't even mine, I sold the item for a friend) hence the negative balance. It took me literally a year or so to convince them to wipe that debt out. I just had to keep plugging away at them until they got bored of chasing such a small amount of cash and conceded defeat. I'm sure most people don't bother.
I don't give a flying f**k what their terms say, they don't get to decide what I will and will not refund. Not under those circumstances.

hyteckit · Dec 30, 2011, 10:01 PM

Someone is way too worry and paranoid about $15.

Seriously. Everyone starts off with 0 feedback on ebay. Does that make everyone a fraudster.

Waragainstsleep · Dec 31, 2011, 08:39 AM

Americans have always been a bit weird about eBay. Its amazing the number of them who won't ship internationally. I'm offering to pay the full actual shipping amount in advance, how can I rip you off?

Doofy · Dec 31, 2011, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep

Americans have always been a bit weird about eBay. Its amazing the number of them who won't ship internationally.

It's not just eBay either. Try buying a guitar from a US outlet with a credit card if you're not in the US! All outlets I've dealt with would take a deposit via credit card, but wouldn't finish the deal that way and insisted on bank transfer for most of payment.

I figure it's down to culture. There's a huge number of people in the US out to rip everyone else off, and there's very few protections in place to prevent this happening. This makes everyone more cautious in their trading habits than (say) us.

I gave up bothering. Currently I'll only do business with the US if there's absolutely nowhere else I can acquire the goodies.

subego · Dec 31, 2011, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

It's not just eBay either. Try buying a guitar from a US outlet with a credit card if you're not in the US! All outlets I've dealt with would take a deposit via credit card, but wouldn't finish the deal that way and insisted on bank transfer for most of payment.

I figure it's down to culture. There's a huge number of people in the US out to rip everyone else off, and there's very few protections in place to prevent this happening. This makes everyone more cautious in their trading habits than (say) us.

I gave up bothering. Currently I'll only do business with the US if there's absolutely nowhere else I can acquire the goodies.

This goes both ways. I tried to order something from Australia and kept getting "no", until someone saw the "Sent from my iPhone" signature in an email and said "I'll help out a fellow Mac user".

Admittedly, I was buying an American product, so they initially thought it was weird, but as it happens, it was a discontinued item, and for whatever reason, they still had it at a dozen places in Australia.

Nice guy though. I even insisted he should add $50 and buy some rounds, but he refused.

Athens · Jan 1, 2012, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep

Americans have always been a bit weird about eBay. Its amazing the number of them who won't ship internationally. I'm offering to pay the full actual shipping amount in advance, how can I rip you off?

Oh that annoys me to no end. I even offer a US address in Blaine which I can drive across to pick up the item and they still refuse to deal with International. I've thought about opening up a US Bank Account just to deal with retards like that.

Thorzdad · Jan 1, 2012, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep

Americans have always been a bit weird about eBay. Its amazing the number of them who won't ship internationally. I'm offering to pay the full actual shipping amount in advance, how can I rip you off?

Blame the scary Nigerian scammers.

Athens · Jan 1, 2012, 06:05 PM

Rofl!!!

Waragainstsleep · Jan 1, 2012, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by Thorzdad

Blame the scary Nigerian scammers.

Its been going on longer than that.

andi*pandi · Jan 1, 2012, 07:02 PM

Isn't there more paperwork involved in shipping internationally? I'm not as familiar with shipping rates either. It isn't worth it for me to figure it out for the little ebay selling I do.

Big Mac · Jan 1, 2012, 10:14 PM

It seems like the transaction went smoothly. I did get notified by PayPal that they would now be holding my incoming payments for days because of a high possibility of disputes. Others have gotten the same message.

turtle777 · Jan 1, 2012, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

It seems like the transaction went smoothly. I did get notified by PayPal that they would now be holding my incoming payments for days because of a high possibility of disputes. Others have gotten the same message.

How would that protect YOU ?

The other party is the n00b, right ?

-t

Big Mac · Jan 1, 2012, 10:51 PM

Correct. And I'm not happy about it, but I suspect that it's standard PayPal policy whenever you've sold to a person with zero eBay feedback.

turtle777 · Jan 1, 2012, 11:04 PM

Doesn't make any darn sense. Sounds like typical eBay crap.

-t

Waragainstsleep · Jan 1, 2012, 11:14 PM

Paypal are getting worse and worse. Serious abuse of their monopoly. You guys heard about the time they froze a quarter million dollars of Minecraft revenue? Or the time just a few weeks back when they were cracking down on charities using donate buttons?

They just seem to think they can issue fines and refunds on behalf of others too. If they want to offer payment protection, fine but they can be the ones paying for it, not me.

turtle777 · Jan 2, 2012, 12:10 AM

That's why I only use Amex with Paypal. If Paypal pulls any crap, Amex will fix it.

-t

Athens · Jan 2, 2012, 12:57 AM

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

Isn't there more paperwork involved in shipping internationally? I'm not as familiar with shipping rates either. It isn't worth it for me to figure it out for the little ebay selling I do.

Depends where, like to Canada its not bad, just a different fedex form that is almost the same as the normal one. Ignorance is the largest factor I believe because I get refused even when I am given a US address to ship it to.

ghporter · Jan 2, 2012, 07:53 AM

Shipping internationally from the US involves one or two forms that are simple and quick to fill out. No sweat or fuss, but it's not like mailing a letter and so many people never even really look at what's needed before they give up. Being stationed overseas a few times got me a crash course in international mail, even when ALL of my mail while overseas went through US entities (USPS and the APO system).

Athens, sorry to hear about your grandmother...

Doofy · Jan 2, 2012, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep

Paypal are getting worse and worse. Serious abuse of their monopoly.

It's definitely time for a couple of competitors.

Big Mac · Jan 2, 2012, 08:39 AM

Hey Doofy, you and Shaddim should start one, what do you think? There are some PayPal competitors, of course, but based on what I've seen none are as convenient or as available to all countries like PayPal is.

turtle777 · 03:11 PM

With all the financial regulation in he US (incl. all the anti terrorism funding regulations), one would be insane to start something new. It's a complete nightmare, and the regulatory burn makes it almost impossible for new startups (and competition, btw.). It's another thing the many don't get: regulation kills competition.

-t

Big Mac · Jan 2, 2012, 01:02 PM

PayPal does escape a lot of that regulatory scrutiny because it's not technically a bank. I think a competitor could be started without too much difficulty on the regulation side. Whether rich entrepreneurs are sufficiently interested in competing against eBay/PayPal is a different matter.

You know, Google Checkout should have been the PayPal competitor, but it's just too limited and too locked to Google.

Thorzdad · Jan 2, 2012, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

With all the financial regulation in he US...

Take the axe-grinding to the PWL, please. There's no need to drop it into this discussion.

Doofy · Jan 2, 2012, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

Hey Doofy, you and Shaddim should start one, what do you think?

Waaaaay too much of a nightmare!

turtle777 · Jan 2, 2012, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by Thorzdad

Take the axe-grinding to the PWL, please. There's no need to drop it into this discussion.

WTF?

It was a direct response to Big Macs question / suggestion.

-t

Big Mac · Jan 2, 2012, 01:44 PM

Thorzdad was just being a little proactive to ensure things stay non-political.

Thorzdad · Jan 2, 2012, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

WTF?

It was a direct response to Big Macs question / suggestion.

-t

Which you could have done far more effectively had you simply resisted the temptation to add the inflammatory dig at the end, which was uncalled-for here.