[iREZ]

What is your question!!!!!!!

Why can't you post normal questions!!!!!!!!!!!!

You could upgrade optical drives and hard drives but for processor speed and GPU its pretty much a no from what I know.

[fizzlemynizzle]

i just nearly sprayed coke all over my monitor from laughing at this, and i'm in the middle of a class

[runejoha]

Originally posted by iREZ:
What is your question!!!!!!!

Why can't you post normal questions!!!!!!!!!!!!

You could upgrade optical drives and hard drives but for processor speed and GPU its pretty much a no from what I know.

"


The question is easy. Does apple support:

1.Take out the radeon 9600 card.
2.Replace it with a newer model.

3.Why this "silly" question. Because other companies support this
feature.

[fizzlemynizzle]

USE THE _)#@$*#_$(*_)# SEARCH!

And you didn't specify what component you wanted to upgrade, just "upgrade a Powerbook"

And the answer is no.

[typoon]

Originally posted by runejoha:
"


The question is easy. Does apple support:

1.Take out the radeon 9600 card.
2.Replace it with a newer model.

3.Why this "silly" question. Because other companies support this
feature.

The reason why this questions is silly is because you didn't post what you just did after your topic title. It would help people to understand what type of upgrade you mean.

Your Topic heading could mean anything from RAM, Hard Drive, Processor, Video Card upgrade. you Need to be more specific. You also NEED to post a more specific question once you start a thread with a question.

[runejoha]

Originally posted by fizzlemynizzle:
USE THE _)#@$*#_$(*_)# SEARCH!

And you didn't specify what component you wanted to upgrade, just "upgrade a Powerbook"

And the answer is no.

Sombody said yes in another forum. Of course I ment HW which is not replaceable for the end-user.

Hehe, I think you like to spend time to complain about the search thing. So after all it isn't a bad thing that people ask question even dough somebody where discussing this weeks ago!

runejoha

[typoon]

Originally posted by runejoha:
Sombody said yes in another forum. Of course I ment HW which is not replaceable for the end-user.

Hehe, I think you like to spend time to complain about the search thing. So after all it isn't a bad thing that people ask question even dough somebody where discussing this weeks ago!

runejoha

Well if you used it first he might not complain about it.

[iREZ]

JUST LEAVE YOU WEENIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[euphras]

RAM, HD, PCMCIA, OD: YES
GPU, VRAM, CPU: NO (they�re actually no "cards" by physical means, all chips are soldered onto the mainboard)

And plz, show me one modern PC notebook, where you can upgrade the graphics

[ibook_steve]

I just heard today that you can actually replace the graphics chips on those overpriced, extremely heavy (9 lbs.) Alienware gaming notebooks. They mentioned it on TechTV's Fresh Gear.

Steve

[bstone]

Originally posted by ibook_steve:
I just heard today that you can actually replace the graphics chips on those overpriced, extremely heavy (9 lbs.) Alienware gaming notebooks. They mentioned it on TechTV's Fresh Gear.

Steve

Mr Jobs,
This is true. They come with 128mb GPUs and are modular.

[buddhabelly]

Originally posted by euphras:
RAM, HD, PCMCIA, OD: YES
GPU, VRAM, CPU: NO (they�re actually no "cards" by physical means, all chips are soldered onto the mainboard)

And plz, show me one modern PC notebook, where you can upgrade the graphics

You can actually put a G4 into a G3 pismo. And this was supposedly impossible, right up til it was done. This is just for sake of argument.

[Pierre B.]

Originally posted by buddhabelly:
You can actually put a G4 into a G3 pismo. And this was supposedly impossible, right up til it was done.

This was not supposedly impossible, since the CPU in the G3 Powerbooks is on a daughtercard that can be removed. By doing this, you can change the CPU clock frequency (or even go from a G3 to a G4) but not the system bus. It was simply a matter of time a third party manufacturer comes out with a new daughtercard.

CPU upgrades are no more possible with the architecture of a G4 Powerbook.

GPU upgrades were never possible in the Powerbooks.

The hard drive was easily upgraded in the older G3 Powerbooks. In the newest G4 Powerbooks, such an upgrade is pretty complicated and not recommended for the average user.

Memory upgrades were always easy, I would say recently with the Aluminum Powerbooks became even easier.

[Lateralus]

I still can't understand why Apple has taken a step backwards when it comes to upgradability in the G4 PowerBooks. Guess thats why the Pismo is still my favorite PowerBook.

[Pierre B.]

Originally posted by PowerMacMan:
I still can't understand why Apple has taken a step backwards when it comes to upgradability in the G4 PowerBooks.

Hmm, sale more new machines instead of letting people with upgraded ones?

[FlatLyna]

IMHO the weakest part of the current powerbooks design is the fact that the hardisk is not in a user removeable bay/caddy. That would make disk upgrades so easy rather than ripping the whole damn laptop apart.

I also suspect that non-upgradeable cpu's is because it doesn't add much value to the laptop. Relatively few pc laptops offer this cpu upgradeablility, and in todays cost driven market, component count is critical. Adding connectors etc. for daughteboards costs more money, adds an extra point of failure etc. Reliablilty is likely higher with the cpu soldered to the motherboard. There also isn't huge jumps in cpu performance in MHz terms that would make it worthwhile. That said it *would* be nice, but I would't pay a premium for the option.

just my 2 cents worth...

[runejoha]

Originally posted by FlatLyna:
IMHO the weakest part of the current powerbooks design is the fact that the hardisk is not in a user removeable bay/caddy. That would make disk upgrades so easy rather than ripping the whole damn laptop apart.

I also suspect that non-upgradeable cpu's is because it doesn't add much value to the laptop. Relatively few pc laptops offer this cpu upgradeablility, and in todays cost driven market, component count is critical. Adding connectors etc. for daughteboards costs more money, adds an extra point of failure etc. Reliablilty is likely higher with the cpu soldered to the motherboard. There also isn't huge jumps in cpu performance in MHz terms that would make it worthwhile. That said it *would* be nice, but I would't pay a premium for the option.

just my 2 cents worth...

Thanks for this information. It was information like this I searched for, but which I never found. I hope this proves that it is indeed usefull to ask questions here, and I hope that people like iRez & fizzlemynizzle can leave me alone even dough they feel they have something to prove. I a sure that you one day also can apply for a education, and then you don't need to be so bitter

I have decied to give Apple a chance, and not buy a x86 arch this time. I think the G5 PB is here before most of you people believe, but it might take some time before they are released as 15 inch. As well it will take even longer time for the 64 bit arch software to be optimalized, probably...

runejoha

[typoon]

Originally posted by runejoha:
Thanks for this information. It was information like this I searched for, but which I never found. I hope this proves that it is indeed usefull to ask questions here, and I hope that people like iRez & fizzlemynizzle can leave me alone even dough they feel they have something to prove. I a sure that you one day also can apply for a education, and then you don't need to be so bitter

I have decied to give Apple a chance, and not buy a x86 arch this time. I think the G5 PB is here before most of you people believe, but it might take some time before they are released as 15 inch. As well it will take even longer time for the 64 bit arch software to be optimalized, probably...

runejoha

Understanding how Apple upgrades Machines I don't think a G5 Powerbook will be hear any sooner than Next year the the earliest. My resoning behind this is that there are other things that are ahead of it in revisions.

In no particular order though this might be about right

1.iMac this computer is started to get a bit dated. Also It's not above 1-1.25GHz Still.

2.eMac this is also starting to get a bit Dated and is due for an upgrade soon as well. also Not above 1GHz.

3.iPod. they didn't really upgrade it, they just added the 15GB model, it is time for an upgrade because of the new scroll wheel in the Mini at the very least.

4. The G5, We are waiting on the 3GHz models and this machine hasn't been updated since Last summer when Jobs introduced the G5. It was just given some refreshes.

5. Powerbook G4, These were recently updated with the 15 and the 12" was upgraded to USB2.0 and 1GHz, And the 17 just went up to 1.33GHz So we might see one more refresh before an upgrade especially on the 15.

6.iBook G4, these will probably be upgraded last since they just got the upgrade to the G4 chip.

7. Xserve, This will probably get a refresh once the 3GHz chips are out but who knows. Since this was also just released in G5 it probably won't be updated for a while either.

So, runejoha from my knowledge of how Apple upgrades Machines and the way the current crop of Machines is setup this is my reasoning why I don't think we will see a Powerbook G5 until at least sometime next year or the year after.

[runejoha]

Well, I understand your arguments, but I think Apple will release a new PB G5 earlier because of the future competition in the 64 bit marked.AMD released a 64 bit arch. for the home marked even without a Windows release which supported 64 bit. It seems pretty important to be the pioneer in this marked. If the 64 bit laptopmarked, which nowdays is the most growing and important marked, takes off without Apple I think they will loose a good change to "steal" marked shares from the popular x86 developers.

But, I prioritate weight, reliability and quality before pure performance and I have relised it is foolish to waith for the 64 bit laptop, specially because of the fact that todays applications is not optiized for this. Another dilemma is the dicussions of the cache storage. The cache algorithms can be less effective with a 64 arch. than a 32 arch, which means that the advantages will pay off when applications need 4 GB ++ mem and the CPUs are faster (more than todays IBM chip).

BTW. I did order a 15'' PB today. Looking forwar to check out the RISC world. But of course if will install a Debian distrib. until I might discover that the Darwin core is good enough for my tasks.

runejoha

Originally posted by typoon:
Understanding how Apple upgrades Machines I don't think a G5 Powerbook will be hear any sooner than Next year the the earliest. My resoning behind this is that there are other things that are ahead of it in revisions.

In no particular order though this might be about right

1.iMac this computer is started to get a bit dated. Also It's not above 1-1.25GHz Still.

2.eMac this is also starting to get a bit Dated and is due for an upgrade soon as well. also Not above 1GHz.

3.iPod. they didn't really upgrade it, they just added the 15GB model, it is time for an upgrade because of the new scroll wheel in the Mini at the very least.

4. The G5, We are waiting on the 3GHz models and this machine hasn't been updated since Last summer when Jobs introduced the G5. It was just given some refreshes.

5. Powerbook G4, These were recently updated with the 15 and the 12" was upgraded to USB2.0 and 1GHz, And the 17 just went up to 1.33GHz So we might see one more refresh before an upgrade especially on the 15.

6.iBook G4, these will probably be upgraded last since they just got the upgrade to the G4 chip.

7. Xserve, This will probably get a refresh once the 3GHz chips are out but who knows. Since this was also just released in G5 it probably won't be updated for a while either.

So, runejoha from my knowledge of how Apple upgrades Machines and the way the current crop of Machines is setup this is my reasoning why I don't think we will see a Powerbook G5 until at least sometime next year or the year after.

[typoon]

Originally posted by runejoha:
Well, I understand your arguments, but I think Apple will release a new PB G5 earlier because of the future competition in the 64 bit marked.AMD released a 64 bit arch. for the home marked even without a Windows release which supported 64 bit. It seems pretty important to be the pioneer in this marked. If the 64 bit laptopmarked, which nowdays is the most growing and important marked, takes off without Apple I think they will loose a good change to "steal" marked shares from the popular x86 developers.

But, I prioritate weight, reliability and quality before pure performance and I have relised it is foolish to waith for the 64 bit laptop, specially because of the fact that todays applications is not optiized for this. Another dilemma is the dicussions of the cache storage. The cache algorithms can be less effective with a 64 arch. than a 32 arch, which means that the advantages will pay off when applications need 4 GB ++ mem and the CPUs are faster (more than todays IBM chip).

BTW. I did order a 15'' PB today. Looking forwar to check out the RISC world. But of course if will install a Debian distrib. until I might discover that the Darwin core is good enough for my tasks.

runejoha

Congrats on your purchase. While I understand the arguement you pose it is just the way Apple Upgrades work. They aren't going to abandon other upgrades to the other machines, just to be in front of the pack for the first 64 bit laptop. I still don't think we will see a 64 bit chip out for the PC anytime soon. Either way I still think Apple will be the first.

[fizzlemynizzle]

if all you're going to run is debian why not buy a laptop with an Athlon64? yellow dog doesn't yet even support the graphics chipset in the newest powerbooks

[Pierre B.]

Originally posted by typoon:
I still don't think we will see a 64 bit chip out for the PC anytime soon. Either way I still think Apple will be the first.

I would like to clarify some points about the first 64-bit notebook.

First of all, right now, there are PC vendors that sell 64-bit laptops: eMachines and VoodooPC. Perhaps there are others too.

Second, the first 64-bit notebook, made his appearance many years before, with processors from Sun I think. Today, you can find UltraSPARC notebooks (64-bit) with up to 4 GB ECC RAM and 160 GB hard drive (2 drives). These notebooks run Solaris 9. In this page, you will find some history about unix notebooks. It is remarkable that on 1994, there has been a notebook with an Alpha DEC processor in it.

I don't think Apple has some interest to be the first 64-bit notebook manufacturer, since simply they can't be. Too late. Even in the personal computer domain.

[typoon]

Originally posted by Pierre B.:
I would like to clarify some points about the first 64-bit notebook.

First of all, right now, there are PC vendors that sell 64-bit laptops: eMachines and VoodooPC. Perhaps there are others too.

Second, the first 64-bit notebook, made his appearance many years before, with processors from Sun I think. Today, you can find UltraSPARC notebooks (64-bit) with up to 4 GB ECC RAM and 160 GB hard drive (2 drives). These notebooks run Solaris 9. In this page, you will find some history about unix notebooks. It is remarkable that on 1994, there has been a notebook with an Alpha DEC processor in it .

thanks for the clarification.

[Pierre B.]

Originally posted by typoon:
thanks for the clarification.

You're welcome .

[runejoha]

Originally posted by fizzlemynizzle:
if all you're going to run is debian why not buy a laptop with an Athlon64? yellow dog doesn't yet even support the graphics chipset in the newest powerbooks

Ah, because I use some applications which works good in debian. At the same time I need a good laptop, and this time I will try PB.

runejoha

[runejoha]

Originally posted by Pierre B.:
I would like to clarify some points about the first 64-bit notebook.

First of all, right now, there are PC vendors that sell 64-bit laptops: eMachines and VoodooPC. Perhaps there are others too.

Second, the first 64-bit notebook, made his appearance many years before, with processors from Sun I think. Today, you can find UltraSPARC notebooks (64-bit) with up to 4 GB ECC RAM and 160 GB hard drive (2 drives). These notebooks run Solaris 9. In this page, you will find some history about unix notebooks. It is remarkable that on 1994, there has been a notebook with an Alpha DEC processor in it.

I don't think Apple has some interest to be the first 64-bit notebook manufacturer, since simply they can't be. Too late. Even in the personal computer domain.

Yes, I know, but I ment in a more comercial marked which reach a bigger marked. (easier OS, whith more functions)


runejoha

[chabig]

I still can't understand why Apple has taken a step backwards when it comes to upgradability in the G4 PowerBook.

Size and weight both suffer when you build upgradability into a portable.

[romeosc]

Originally posted by chabig:
Size and weight both suffer when you build upgradability into a portable.

Apple makes money on new computer sales. People upgrade for better stats.... they buy new computers for style & wow factor


We know a large portion of Apples sales are for "keeping ahead of the Jones!" Most replaced computers can still do 80% of the tasks desired. Gaming/Graphics are big draw for speed. If you add up all the time computer is waiting for user vs. time user waiting for computer, I bet we all would be suprised!

I often use multiprocessors to get more done! (1 G4 for burning DVDs.... 1 for rendering.... 1 for daily business tasks...... that way I never have to stop a task ... just switch computers. (All of the legacy computers are cheaper than 1 G5!)

[Pierre B.]

Originally posted by runejoha:
Yes, I know, but I ment in a more comercial marked which reach a bigger marked. (easier OS, whith more functions)


runejoha

I am afraid that I don't understand your statement.

By the way, congratulations on your purchase. The Powerbooks are awesome machines, unless you get hardware problems from the production line (rather unlikely at this point).

[runejoha]

Originally posted by Pierre B.:
I am afraid that I don't understand your statement.

By the way, congratulations on your purchase. The Powerbooks are awesome machines, unless you get hardware problems from the production line (rather unlikely at this point).

sorry, it was a "late night statement", and as somebody allready have pointet out before, english is not my mother language

I ment that Apple, Dell, Comaq etc have other customers than laptops installed with Unix, Solaris etc. I think that machines with Mac OS & Windows reaches the home marked, while SOlaris and HP Unix etc. are more for the buisness/delevoper marked. So, if apple for example release a G5 tomorrow they will be the first out on the "commercial home marked"

runejoha

[Pierre B.]

Originally posted by runejoha:
...english is not my mother language

This is not something unusual here. English is not my native language either, and this is very evident, I think.

I ment that Apple, Dell, Comaq etc have other customers than laptops installed with Unix, Solaris etc.

Correct. The UltraSPARC notebooks are designed to work in specific enterprise/research environments.

So, if apple for example release a G5 tomorrow they will be the first out on the "commercial home marked"

Two things: (1) you were wise to not wait for a Powerbook G5, since it wouldn't happen tomorrow; in the meantime, there will be, at most, an incremental update, and many people here will start whining about pathetic updates etc. (2) The eMachines and VoodooPC 64-bit notebooks come with Windows XP. These are "home machines".

[runejoha]

Originally posted by Pierre B.:
This is not something unusual here. English is not my native language either, and this is very clear, I think.



Correct. The UltraSPARC notebooks are designed to work in specific enterprise/research environments.



Two things: (1) you were wise to not wait for a Powerbook G5, since it wouldn't happen tomorrow; in the meantime, there will be, at most, an incremental update, and many people here will start whining about pathetic updates etc. (2) The eMachines and VoodooPC 64-bit notebooks come with Windows XP. These are "home machines".

Maybe they don't care to update anything before September -December (G5). The PBs today are good enough, or even better than their HP Compaq rivals (I have been comparing them a lot!), exception from a better power usage on the Pentium M.

runejoha

[ibook_steve]

This is an interesting thread but the following just truly bothers me:

It's a "computer market" with a "t," not a "computer marked" with a "d."

Thank you. I feel better now. No offense to your language skills, but this has been driving me nuts.

Steve

[runejoha]

Originally posted by ibook_steve:
This is an interesting thread but the following just truly bothers me:

It's a "computer market" with a "t," not a "computer marked" with a "d."

Thank you. I feel better now. No offense to your language skills, but this has been driving me nuts.

Steve

Hehe MARKET! I am much better speaking..