[nforcer]

Well it seems all of our hopes and dreams about having "a Better PC Emulator" for the Mac have been crushed.

Related Press Release

"We have found that the development had not formally been started, and it appears not a single line of code has been written."

Looks like all of the talk about an emulator "with performance better than VPC" that would be "shipping soon" was all a lie.

Does this make any sense to anyone? I mean, I don't know the last time I even heard of, or needed to use an FWB disk utility product for anything. It seems building a good emulator might actually be a business opporunity they are missing - they might actually have a product worth selling again if it's done right. But from the indications of the release, I'm not getting my hopes up for anything soon.

[Chuckit]

Did you hear about the sky being blue too?

[Diggory Laycock]

VapourWare

[CharlesS]

Why did these guys buy Insignia in the first place anyway, just to shelve all their great apps?

[step]

can't open the page. do they have any news for people they suckered into buying the os9 version for the free upgrade?

[Horsepoo!!!]

Well **** you too, FWB.

This is the kind of damage a company just cannot walk away from. They might as well close their doors right now.

[OpenStep]

I wonder what happens to the people that bougtht RealPC a couple months ago promised a free upgrade to an OS X version?

[Sarc]

make promise to self, never buy a FWB Product.

[Developer]

" FWB has not to date even received the source code upon which any development would use as the foundation to build a new RealPC for OSX."

Oh man, that former management must have really sucked.

[Eug]

Hmmm... I hope they didn't buy it thinking they'd they'd get a beta RealPC, and didn't bother checking...

[Helvetica Neue]

'Honesty and openness with the user base is a cornerstone of the new management team. We are developing software to return FWB Software to it's historic position as a leader in disk utility software.'

Apart from the grammatical & spelling errors above, it is TOTALLY unbelievable that ANY company would take over a company without investigating and assessing its assets BEFORE takeover.

All this means that I will NEVER buy any FWB software. F U FWB - this is a con

[slider]

Is it possible they were waiting to get there hands on a G5? Note: I did not read any of the links.

[waffffffle]

I think it is clear that they made the announcement to sucker people into buying the OS9 version for the free upgrade. They hoped to sell copies of outdated software that way and they probably did sell a few.

[Axo1ot1]

Well when that news first broke the articles were talking about how they had a version of RealPC that runs on Solaris or something, and that the reason they were talking about it was that all they had to do was port a Unix app to Darwin. So if that's true, concieveably they could still start tomorrow and have a reasonably decent product ready in 6-8 months.

[veryniceguy2002]

Too make the matter worse, VirtualPC 6.1 (now owned my Microcrap) is not G5 compatible

I guess Microcrap might have make RealPC for Mac OS X never seen the light of day, by charge heaps of $$$$$ or even withdrawn the licence altogether, to provide its market share on VirtualPC... now can the US members tell me is that considered as anti-trust under US law???

[Arkham_c]

I suspect Microsoft will release a G5 VPC, if only to ensure that they can track the G5's popularity and gauge demand.

Whether they will release any new features or performance improvements remains to be seen. Does anyone know if Microsoft got the engineers from Connectix as well as the products?

[thefamousmred]

Originally posted by Arkham_c:
Does anyone know if Microsoft got the engineers from Connectix as well as the products?

Many Connectix engineers moved to MS, yup.

[NeXTLoop]

Although I'm as disappointed as the next guy, I can't really see blaming the current management. Evidently things got so bad with the former management team, that the California courts even got involved to help oust them.

Basically, the current management team inherited a ridiculously embarrassing situation from the former inept, and thoroughly dishonest, management team. As far as I'm concerned, it took a lot of guts for the new guys to say: 'We sincerely apologize, but our predecessors ripped you off.'

At this point, I just want to watch and see what happens from here. If they can turn things around, more power to em.

[RooneyX]

They were lying to get people to but the OS9 version with promised free upgrades. It was basically quick buck they were trying to make before they got the hell out of there. Very Enron. Take the money and run.

Those who bought it could easily get a refund because of the lies. But now the company will suffer, those who made the money are already cashed out and gone.

[videian28]

this sucks in MANY ways, but on the other side, this is a HUGE opprotunity for some other company to come up with a microsoft alternative to virtual pc, that in itself would be enough for them to make a killing

[osiris]

I wonder if Microsoft had anything to do with this... as in maybe MS quadrupled licensing fees or something. Very strange.

I guess there won't be a peecee emulator on the G5 for a little while.

no skin off my back, but this whole thing smells funny.

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by osiris:
I wonder if Microsoft had anything to do with this... as in maybe MS quadrupled licensing fees or something. Very strange.

I guess there won't be a peecee emulator on the G5 for a little while.

no skin off my back, but this whole thing smells funny.

I doubt it's Microsoft. This has looked for some time like a dishonest bunch of people trying to talk themselves up without doing anything significant.

But does Virtual PC not work on the G5?

[voodoo]

Originally posted by Chuckit:

But does Virtual PC not work on the G5?

nope

[Karim]

The thing that makes me wonder about the MS tie in is the product timeline:

1. FWB announces REALPC is going to blow away Virtual PC. yada yada yada.

2. FWB announces delay for REALPC while they negotiate with Microsoft over licensing.

3. FWB announces REALPC for OSX never existed.

Now, I can understand 1&3, but why did #2 occur. And what really happened between #2 and #3.

Why negotiate over licensing when the product doesn't even exist. That doesn't make sense.

[opsotta]

Maybe it's there but not with FWB! One or two of the old team have the source code and didn't publish it to the company. So the new owner doesn't have it. Now they start up their new company and name it "Mac86" or "TruePC".

[dreilly1]

Originally posted by Karim:
Why negotiate over licensing when the product doesn't even exist. That doesn't make sense.

<tinfoilhat>
Here is the "evidence" as we know it today:
- FWB's former management were slimeballs who took files and computers before getting ousted.
- FWB's current management doesn't know if Real PC for OS X ever even existed -- they can't find evidence.
- Microsoft hates competition, and would do anything to get rid of it.
- Microsoft bought Connectix for their PC virtualization software,
but still planned to sell VPC for the Mac.

Here is the conspiracy theory:
1) FWB announces that Real PC will kick arse
2) Microsoft gives FWB some major licensing trouble
3) Microsoft implies that they would really, really rather prefer to not have Real PC around competing with Virtual PC.
4) Microsoft "motivates" the former FWB management to "forget" that Real PC for OS X ever existed, just before the shareholder takeover
5) New FWB management can't find any evidence of Real PC for OS X (because the former management team got rid of it).
6) Old FWB Management has a healthy retirement due Microsoft's "Motivation", Microsoft eliminates a competitor, and FWB shareholders are left holding the bag.

</tinfoilhat>

Yeah, that's pretty implausible. I'll give you $.02 to forget I even said it...

[RooneyX]

Originally posted by dreilly1:
<tinfoilhat>

Here is the conspiracy theory:
1) FWB announces that Real PC will kick arse
2) Microsoft gives FWB some major licensing trouble
3) Microsoft implies that they would really, really rather prefer to not have Real PC around competing with Virtual PC.
4) Microsoft "motivates" the former FWB management to "forget" that Real PC for OS X ever existed, just before the shareholder takeover
5) New FWB management can't find any evidence of Real PC for OS X (because the former management team got rid of it).
6) Old FWB Management has a healthy retirement due Microsoft's "Motivation", Microsoft eliminates a competitor, and FWB shareholders are left holding the bag.

</tinfoilhat>

Yeah, that's pretty implausible. I'll give you $.02 to forget I even said it...

I say that's pretty plausible. Dirty money under the table. I bet M$ is also responsible for getting banking and music sites to stop working with Macs even when they ran fine before. A little water under the bridge here, money under the table.

[JLL]

1: FWB announces RealPC for Mac OS X and promise to release it this summer

2: FWB doesn't have one line of code to show and decides to announce a delay for RealPC - blames it on Microsoft

3: FWB announces that RealPC for Mac OS X never existed

[voodoo]

Originally posted by JLL:
1: FWB announces RealPC for Mac OS X and promise to release it this summer

2: FWB doesn't have one line of code to show and decides to announce a delay for RealPC - blames it on Microsoft

3: FWB announces that RealPC for Mac OS X never existed

they never blamed it on microsoft.

[NeXTLoop]

Yes they did. They had news on their site saying that the delay was because of negotiations with M$.

[exca1ibur]

Conspiracy Theory - Part 2

Microsoft says only the new version on VPC they are working on will work on a G5, forcing G5 owners to pay for an update that probably would have been a free patch.

hmmm...

[sushiism]

bah dont you realise that the G5 is a totally different beast to the G4 of coruse vpc wouldnt work on it, its gonna need a bloody good rewrite in places to do so and well worthy of a upgrade fee judging from the fact most of the pentium emulator needs to be rewritten. Why does everyone make it sound so underhanda bout micrsoft like they're gonna take your precious VPC away, THINK about it people, ms selling you vpc = 1 more licence to windows = 1 sale they never would have had if vpc didnt exist. Plus they basically control the hardware that the windows is running on because they can write the emulator thus it may become more reliable. Microsoft wouldnt have much to loose if realpc was amazing because its still more sales of windows for them, microsoft dont make money off computers like apple do you know

[voodoo]

Originally posted by NeXTLoop:
Yes they did. They had news on their site saying that the delay was because of negotiations with M$.

No - They blamed *a delay* on M$ negotiations, but not that they didn't have any code or that the app wasn't ready. That was the insinuation of the nerdboy.

[JLL]

Originally posted by voodoo:
No - They blamed *a delay* on M$ negotiations, but not that they didn't have any code or that the app wasn't ready. That was the insinuation of the nerdboy.

Try to read AND understand!

I never said that the blamed the lack of code on MS: blames it=the delay on MS.



Explained one more time for voodoo and other five year olds:

1. FWB doesn't have any code but have promised a release

2. Oooh, what to do - what to do?

3. Tell people that they are having naming issues to discuss with MS, thus blaming the delay on MS

[step]

Originally posted by sushiism:
Microsoft wouldnt have much to loose if realpc was amazing because its still more sales of windows for them, microsoft dont make money off computers like apple do you know

Well the problem is Microsoft doesn't really think like that.
They see their future in having total control of the PC platform, encrypting the whole shebang from the processor to the monitor, water tight , digital rights managed and hollywood friendly.
Virtual machines are inherently hackable, any version of windows on a 'virtual' PC can have it's windows copy protection, sound output, video output, all hijacked without ever having to crack any Microsoft code
Even the PC users would use it

I'm not saying that's what's happening, I'm just saying that if you're set on seeing a conspiracy, then you could make a convincing case

[sushiism]

why would they want to see whats on your virtual pc?
I mean christ we just use it to do a quick test of pages in IE6 or open the odd .ace file

[voodoo]

Originally posted by JLL:
Try to read AND understand!

I never said that the blamed the lack of code on MS: blames it=the delay on MS.



Explained one more time for voodoo and other five year olds:

1. FWB doesn't have any code but have promised a release

2. Oooh, what to do - what to do?

3. Tell people that they are having naming issues to discuss with MS, thus blaming the delay on MS

And that's a theory only a five year old could come up with. They would have nothing to gain by lying in the first place - selling a couple of OS 9 RealPCs is the lamest reasoning. We're not talking about *that* kind of money. A marginal market of a marginal market would aptly describe those interested in the RealPC product. Or VPC.

Your theory is the lamest one in this thread - and that's a fact. Chalk this one up to constructive criticism.

[goMac]

You forget, now they care because they are interested in selling copies of VIRTUAL PC now, not just Windows. They want the premium from Virtual PC.

[JLL]

Originally posted by voodoo:
And that's a theory only a five year old could come up with. They would have nothing to gain by lying in the first place

Yet they did.

They have numerous times stated that they were almost finished and ready to release RealPC. Here on June 10:

FWB Inc. continues on towards its development of a Mac OS X-native version of RealPC, its PC emulation software, despite some recent legal setbacks from Microsoft Corp. To find out more, MacCentral spoke with FWB vice president of sales and marketing Mark Prewitt.

In mid-May, FWB briefly stopped development (what development?)of its forthcoming Mac OS X-native version of RealPC following the arrival of a cease and desist letter from Microsoft. "It was a trademark dispute," explained Prewitt.

Prewitt told MacCentral that following Microsoft's acquisition of the SoftWindows trademark, a brand name previously associated with the product, Microsoft requested that FWB remove any references to SoftWindows from its own RealPC product line. That briefly caused FWB to stop developing RealPC as references to SoftWindows had to be pulled from the actual code.

"Unfortunately, the same guys that do the development (again, what development?) had to do the rebranding," said Prewitt. "We're all wearing different hats. We ended up ceasing development on it for about a week," he said.

Things are back on track, although FWB's timetable for RealPC's relaunch has changed. The company had hoped to release RealPC for OS X this month, but they now plan to launch a beta test program starting in July. Should everything go well, RealPC will be on retail store shelves later this summer, perhaps by August.

Pretty bold (no pun intended) statement since they didn't have a single line of code ready.

They are telling the press and customers that they needed to stop their non existent development for a week because of licensing issues with MS.

[voodoo]

They lied or somehow screwed up - yes we know that for it is obvious - but they had *nothing* to gain by it, knowing that they wouldn't deliver on time. If ever.

M$ on the other hand bought VPC *last february* and they have had their sweet time to test it on the G5. If anyone outside Apple had a prototype G5, Microsoft did.

And now they are stalling VPC for G5. They have no excuse.

[JLL]

Originally posted by voodoo:
They lied or somehow screwed up - yes we know that for it is obvious - but they had *nothing* to gain by it, knowing that they wouldn't deliver on time. If ever.

Did I say that? No!

[voodoo]

Originally posted by JLL:
Did I say that? No!

Wow - I guess it's time to point out to you that denial isn't a river in Egypt...

Originally posted by JLL:
1: FWB announces RealPC for Mac OS X and promise to release it this summer

2: FWB doesn't have one line of code to show and decides to announce a delay for RealPC - blames it on Microsoft

3: FWB announces that RealPC for Mac OS X never existed

So you are *not* saying FWB just used M$ as a made up excuse for covering up the lack of RealPC?? I think you are.

Are we misunderstanding eachother here?

[JLL]

Originally posted by voodoo:
So you are *not* saying FWB just used M$ as a made up excuse for covering up the lack of RealPC?? I think you are.

Your comprehension skills have had better days.

Yes I said that, but why on earth does that mean that I said that FWB gained anything by doing that?

The former managers of FWB were certifiable:

...the previous management then took to locking the office doors so we were unable to access company records, and began contacting suppliers and partners to tell them that we were not the management and not to talk to us. We finally were able to get the San Mateo Sheriff to assist in unlocking the doors only to find that all computers and company records had been removed from the office and were nowhere to be found. Consequently we are still fighting an uphill battle to get a full picture of the situation.

No one knows what their reasons for lying were.

[Karim]

I wonder how MS knew their were softwindows references inside the OSX version of RealPC that was never released.

Since they had no way of knowing, how did they know to send a cease and desist letter to make FWB cease and desist from something that they didn't know about.

Things that make you go hmmmm.

[JLL]

Originally posted by Karim:
Since they had no way of knowing, how did they know to send a cease and desist letter to make FWB cease and desist from something that they didn't know about.

FWB used the SoftWindows name on their site - that could be enough for MS to send a C&D letter.

[clebin]

As JLL said, the former managers of FWB were certifiable. Here's some more info from the new managers who turned up on MacCentral to respond:

New FWB management
It took us from July 7th to August the 27th to "do our homework". Further to your question here are the reasons for the hold up.

January 24th two shareholders (the new management team) agreed to allow one of the other shareholders to purchase their shares, payment was agreed to take place 8 to 12 weeks from that date. Those 2 shareholders no longer worked for FWB awaiting completion of that agreement. Payment was never made many discussions took place as to why and when payment would be made. During that time (the previous management with respect to recent events) made a series of poor judgments.

July 8th a shareholder meeting was held to remove the previous management out of direct concern for the future of FWB software, a majority of shareholders agreed to remove the previous management. Previous management were not present at the shareholder meeting, then subsequently locked the office and refused the authority of the shareholders to remove them.

July 17th Honorable Thomas McGinn Smith of the San Mateo Supreme court judges that the shareholder vote was valid, that the previous management is to be removed, and that the new management was entitled to hold office.

Subsequently the previous management continued to lock the doors and contacted suppliers to claim the new management had no authority and was not to be contacted.

Late July the new management with the help of a San Mateo Sheriff and a locksmith gain access to the office to find all pertinent company records, files, and computers had been removed.

August was spent attempting to define what had been done on RealPC from contacts made from reconstructing the company email records, and having meetings with relevant suppliers to find out what had been committed to and what had been completed.

August 26 the decision was made that it was potentially fatal to FWB to continue development and it was clear untruths have been told. In accordance with our policy on honesty and openness we immediately prepared the appropriate press release and published it.

Marko Kostyrko
CEO - FWB Software Inc
[email protected]

New FWB management
We are well aware of what our responsibilities are, and are acting on those. Customers who have purchased from the start of the false promises of the previous management til our takeover and our full disclosure are welcome to contact us for a refund.

One step at a time, all appropriate steps will be taken.

I wonder how receptive they would be to releasing the source-code - if the bits under license don't screw that idea up too much. If nothing else, Bochs could really benefit from some of that knowledge...

Chris

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by clebin:
If nothing else, Bochs could really benefit from some of that knowledge...

Bochs is a lost cause.

[wede1]

The way I see this is that Microsoft *does* want to continue development of VPC.
They have already announced discontinuing further development for IE for Mac. Since they will fold all future versions in with their OS.

I feel they will also cease development of future versions of any Mac applications in the future. Why not just sell you a copy of VPC with the application that you want to use. MacBU can be dissolved. Cost effective.

Of course that does not mean they will make VPC run as well as it could with proper coding. Hey, if you don't like the way it runs on your Mac, just dump it and buy a *real* PC, with Windows.

I hope I am wrong about this. But I am a skeptic.

Time will tell.

[Loopydude]

This whole story is just too bizarre. The idea that the prior management made completely false statements for months and months about RealPC for OSX just doesn't wash with me. I don't doubt, given their behavior, that they may have overstated their progress, but to suggest that the product was never more than vaporware smacks of a coverup, IMO.

I mean, come on, the old managers just walked off with some of FWB's assets, leaving no trace of RealPC whatsoever? Why the hell would anyone lie for for so long about the existence of a product to sell maybe a few hundred copies of the legacy version, and then top it off by stealing a bunch of files and computers? Really now, this is highly actionable conduct we are talking about here, and those guys would have little hope of getting away with their misdeeds.

The code, in some form or another, exists. That's the only plausible conclusion. I have a feeling FWB's current management knows more than they are letting on. It would not surprise me in the slightest if Microsoft were somehow involved in this debacle, even in an ancillary matter. I have a feeling development of RealPC is "fatal" because Microsoft has made it so. The vaporware soap opera is Twilight-Zonish by comparison to a scenereo that involves Microsoft dealing the killing blow.

Where is the code? Who has it? Where did these erstwhile managers go with it? Redmond, I wonder?

[Art Vandelay]

Originally posted by Loopydude:
This whole story is just too bizarre. The idea that the prior management made completely false statements for months and months about RealPC for OSX just doesn't wash with me. I don't doubt, given their behavior, that they may have overstated their progress, but to suggest that the product was never more than vaporware smacks of a coverup, IMO.

I mean, come on, the old managers just walked off with some of FWB's assets, leaving no trace of RealPC whatsoever? Why the hell would anyone lie for for so long about the existence of a product to sell maybe a few hundred copies of the legacy version, and then top it off by stealing a bunch of files and computers? Really now, this is highly actionable conduct we are talking about here, and those guys would have little hope of getting away with their misdeeds.

The code, in some form or another, exists. That's the only plausible conclusion. I have a feeling FWB's current management knows more than they are letting on. It would not surprise me in the slightest if Microsoft were somehow involved in this debacle, even in an ancillary matter. I have a feeling development of RealPC is "fatal" because Microsoft has made it so. The vaporware soap opera is Twilight-Zonish by comparison to a scenereo that involves Microsoft dealing the killing blow.

Where is the code? Who has it? Where did these erstwhile managers go with it? Redmond, I wonder?

Considering that the previous management illegally sold other companies' products as their own, I don't find this implausible at all.