[Scooterboy]

Don't take this wrong, I love my PowerBook. Its sleek, beautifully austere design is easy to look at and gets attention. It has great features like 17" widescreen and a great video card and DVI out and FW800 and Bluetooth and WiFi. But sometimes I feel like it's behind the curve somewhat in technology. When compared to the better Centrino laptops, the PowerBook's performance and battery life don't look stellar. The PowerBook needs to catch up with Centrino, especially considering the Yonah dual core processor with DPC.

Intel is aiming for 8 hours of battery life. 8 hours. From a dual core Pentium M.

Meanwhile, the PowerBooks G4 are looking more like feature laden iBooks. Is Apple resting on its laurels again, or is a seriously competitive PowerBook in the works?

[zzarg]

wow - you're just asking for some of the more touchy members to flame your arse !

I've got a Rev.A 12" PB and it actually compares quite well in terms of processing for day-to-day apps with some of the Centrino based machines around the office. They can't check email, read a word document or browse the web quicker than I can (after all, most of their extra CPU cycles are taken up running firewall, antivirus and anti-spyware !). Big photoshop files do show a difference though - but I wonder how much is down to software, and how much is down to hardware.

That aside, the PBs are falling behind on battery life and some would say screen resolution and (dare I mention) build quality and really could do with a shot in the arm more than the recent speed bump (although the improved trackpad and disk protection are welcome) - but I don't know what the answer is.

A dual-core low-power G4 with vastly improved power management giving us more power for less power... now I'd love that. Meantime... I'll probably get a new 15" over a Centrino because the PBs are so much easier to use

[Wiskedjak]

The PBs shouldn't be comparing with the Centrinos; that should be the job of the iBooks. The G3 iBook had the best battery life on the market before the Centrinos showed up.

The PBs should be comparing with the P4 workhorses. The irony is that just as Apple is beginning to catch up in clock speed, everyone is now becoming more concerned about battery life, an area where Apple is way behind. I think it comes from Apple's tendency to be more reactive than innovative in the realm of hardware. Apple uses existing hardware innovatively (read: iPod and iMac) but they don't really produce innovative hardware (read dual core Pentium M with 8 hour battery life).

Apple is incredibly innovative in software development, but they're still lagging behind in the hardware department.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by zzarg:
I'll probably get a new 15" over a Centrino because the PBs are so much easier to use

OSX is easier to use, not the PBs. If you could run OSX on a Centrino, which laptop would you get?

[cpac]

Originally posted by Scooterboy:
Is Apple resting on its laurels again, or is a seriously competitive PowerBook in the works?

Ummm duh?

Apple's not "resting on the laurels" any more than they have to. I guarantee you Steve has been screaming for a G5 PB (or one of the various super-G4 variants that are out there) for a while.

When they get a new chip, they can also invest the time/money into making a new form factor, with the potentially accompanying technology improvements in battery life etc. (My own personal hope would be a for a carbon-fiber case and a return to black)

[SEkker]

I agree that battery life is an area worth improving for the next generation apple laptops.

Unless I've missed it, the low power, dual core Intel CPUs are still yet to ship. Could I purchase today a dual core Intel CPU-equipped notebook with 6-8 hours of real-time use off the battery that does not seriously underclock to chip to keep the power usage and heat down? The Centrino is often more powerful than other mobile Intel chips because it efficiently runs at a lower clock speed, while the use of other mobile chips at their full processor speed is not very practical while running only on battery power.

I thought THAT chip was scheduled to be the first dual core processor to be shipped under the new Intel Roadmap -- and it's supposed to use a 65 nm fabrication process. I was seriously worried until the last statement; none of the chipmakers have managed to really solve 90 nm, let alone 65, but perhaps the solutions for 90 nm will also work for 65, I don't know. At the same time, a true G5 PB is probably also going to need to be made using 65nm fab factories, or it will also be very hot and power hungry.

The Intel world is different -- they preannounce some products 6-12 months in advance.

And the TiPB/AlPB form factors are old enough that even Dell is starting to ship models that are starting to be as light at the Apple products. The basic form factor is getting old. Apple has certainly got to know this, I've been wondering if they're planning a tablet-style notebook, etc., for the next generation PBs.

[Superchicken]

I think we'll be seeing dual core G4s relatively soon... and from what I heard those will actually perform very well. And once that happens you'll see a much better boost than on the Windows side for most day to day apps.
As well the PowerBooks haven't been overhauled really since the centrinos really started catching on. Expect to see Apple innovate a lot more in the coming future.

[redheadfred]

I really hope superchicken is right, getting a dual-core G4 AND an overhaul of the powerbooks would be awesome. Now, I'm not extremely familiar with the dual-core G4s, how would the power usage compare? I'd think that with two cores it would go through battery life twice as fast...buuuut i don't know too much about this stuff. It probably wouldn't suck as much power or produce as much heat as a G5, but surely more than a current G4, right? Apple should put fuel cells into their powerbooks

[zzarg]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
OSX is easier to use, not the PBs. If you could run OSX on a Centrino, which laptop would you get?

now there's a thought ! If I could get OSX on a laptop it would probably be something like the M200 TablePC from Toshiba... great form factor and ever as a WinXP machine it's really slick.
I used to be a die-hard Vaio fan but the current models leave me pretty cold.
Because I do a lot of mark-up on Word docs (reviewing client briefs, proof-reading etc) the TabletPC and ink format is great. I keep meaning to get a tablet for my PB and seeing how good Inkwell is (if it's usable... I've not heard anything about it !)

[DylanG]

There are some exceptions but the majority of the currently available Centrino machines have battery life that is competitive with the PB line. I haven't kept up with newest Sonoma revisions but I believe it's rare to find an Intel based laptop that gets >4 hours real world usage from one battery.

Screen resolution is where Apple laptops disappoint me.

[analogika]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
OSX is easier to use, not the PBs.

Actually, that isn't entirely true.

-Instant sleep feature that actually *works* reliably.
-Wireless that actually *works* reliably and automatically.
-instant external monitor recognition without restart or even sleep that works reliably and automatically (this one is an absolute jaw-dropper for Windows users who come into the store).
-battery indicator button on the underside of the 'book.
-pulsing sleep light.
-automatic screen dimming/keyboard backlight in low-light situations that works reliably and automatically.


these are all features of the Powerbook that seem like gimmicks or luxury, but in day-to-day use actually make all the difference.

The only thing they're really behind the Centrinos in is battery life (and that's in theory, not necessarily real-time use), but I've yet to see a user who wouldn't gladly trade an hour or two of real-time use for above features, plus OS X.

-s*

[foo2]

Originally posted by DylanG:
There are some exceptions but the majority of the currently available Centrino machines have battery life that is competitive with the PB line. I haven't kept up with newest Sonoma revisions but I believe it's rare to find an Intel based laptop that gets >4 hours real world usage from one battery.

Screen resolution is where Apple laptops disappoint me.

I have a PB 12.1" 1.33. I'm lucky to get 2.5 hours (it's new) with it with airport extreme turned on (that's how I network). My Gateway M505 gets about 3 to 3.5 hours, it too with an Airport Extreme - compatible card. It's also faster - Pentium-M Centrino at 1.4Ghz, with a Radeon 9600 graphics card, so it can play Doom 3, for example, at passing speed, whereas my FX5200 simply can't do it.

It's disappointing that the PB is a bit on the slow side, but it's still a very nice and well put together product. I'm just happy I got mine for $1000, total, new; if it had been more (like list price) I'd have been pretty disappointed.

[foo2]

Originally posted by analogika:
Actually, that isn't entirely true.

-Instant sleep feature that actually *works* reliably.
-Wireless that actually *works* reliably and automatically.
-instant external monitor recognition without restart or even sleep that works reliably and automatically (this one is an absolute jaw-dropper for Windows users who come into the store).
-battery indicator button on the underside of the 'book.
-pulsing sleep light.
-automatic screen dimming/keyboard backlight in low-light situations that works reliably and automatically.


these are all features of the Powerbook that seem like gimmicks or luxury, but in day-to-day use actually make all the difference.

The only thing they're really behind the Centrinos in is battery life (and that's in theory, not necessarily real-time use), but I've yet to see a user who wouldn't gladly trade an hour or two of real-time use for above features, plus OS X.

-s*

All of those things you mention are also features of any Wintel book you could name. "External monitor recognition" usually means hitting a function key on the Wintel side so you can switch between monitor-only output, laptop-only output, or laptop+monitor output; of course, with modern Radeon hardware, the PC laptops also have 'output to both with different pictures' output, too.

I don't see much of a distinction anymore in what you meantion. OS X wakes fast, but so does my Gateway 505 - a second or two for OS X, perhaps add a second or so for the GW505....not significant either way.

[Garage81]

ive never seen a wintel laptop with a blacklit keyboard and an auto dimming screen. post a link please.

[hldan]

Quote from SEkker:

And the TiPB/AlPB form factors are old enough that even Dell is starting to ship models that are starting to be as light at the Apple products. The basic form factor is getting old. Apple has certainly got to know this, I've been wondering if they're planning a tablet-style notebook, etc., for the next generation PBs.


Hello?? Apple's form factor is getting old? I still have yet to see a 17" PC notebook as thin or as light as the Powerbook. The Dell looks nice but it's big and heavy.
Some of the posters here are on drugs if they think that Apple is only an innovator in software and not hardware. The first wireless notebook and desktop computers were from Apple. Wireless desktops are still scarce on PC. Fiber Optic light up keyboards are nowhere to be found on any of the Pentium laptops. Built-in bluetooth and now BT 2.0 and slot load drives are first on Apple notebooks more than 2 years ago. Few PC notebooks are just jumping on the BT bandwagon. Apple is always first and ahead on hardware.
Now if processor specs are the real concern here then that's only one aspect and people still can't say that Apple is behind on hardware based on processors only. Putting in the latest efficient processor doesn't make the Centrinos innovative.

The PC forums make the same complaints, they wish their computers were up to date on the hardware that Macs have. This is one of the reasons Apple only supplies a USB cable with the new iPods is because PC companies are too cheap and not innovative to include firewire in their notebooks.

[analogika]

Originally posted by foo2:
All of those things you mention are also features of any Wintel book you could name. "External monitor recognition" usually means hitting a function key on the Wintel side so you can switch between monitor-only output, laptop-only output, or laptop+monitor output; of course, with modern Radeon hardware, the PC laptops also have 'output to both with different pictures' output, too.

I wasn't talking about spanning/monitoring.

I was talking about hooking up a monitor to the laptop WHILE IT IS RUNNING and having this monitor instantly recognized by the hardware/software combination, without requiring a restart, or even a visit to the System Preferences.

If this is a standard feature on any Centrino laptops that ACTUALLY WORKS RELIABLY AND AUTOMATICALLY without a restart or any configuration whatsoever, then color me educated.

-s*

[analogika]

Originally posted by foo2:
I don't see much of a distinction anymore in what you meantion. OS X wakes fast, but so does my Gateway 505 - a second or two for OS X, perhaps add a second or so for the GW505....not significant either way.

Count yourself lucky.

By all accounts, sleep does not work reliably on many, many Windows laptops - Windows XP may support it, but the combination of cheap-ass shared-memory graphics card, interrupt settings, PC Card slot, optical drive, blahblahblahwhatever... in your standard XYZ laptop will quite possibly not.

Also, an awful lot of Centrino laptop users do NOT have WLAN access working reliably, what with auto-discovery and instant reconnect upon wake from sleep or changing location, despite ostensible support by OS and hardware.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by hldan:
Some of the posters here are on drugs if they think that Apple is only an innovator in software and not hardware. The first wireless notebook and desktop computers were from Apple. Wireless desktops are still scarce on PC. Fiber Optic light up keyboards are nowhere to be found on any of the Pentium laptops. Built-in bluetooth and now BT 2.0 and slot load drives are first on Apple notebooks more than 2 years ago. Few PC notebooks are just jumping on the BT bandwagon. Apple is always first and ahead on hardware.
Now if processor specs are the real concern here then that's only one aspect and people still can't say that Apple is behind on hardware based on processors only. Putting in the latest efficient processor doesn't make the Centrinos innovative.

I said that Apple is good at innovative use of existing hardware, but haven't been great, of late, at producing innovative hardware

[Michael1980]

Yeah G4 is behind Centrino, but it is not Apple's fault.
They would love to put a LV G5 in there if it was available.
I believe it will come soon enough...

[hldan]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
The PBs shouldn't be comparing with the Centrinos; that should be the job of the iBooks. The G3 iBook had the best battery life on the market before the Centrinos showed up.

The PBs should be comparing with the P4 workhorses. The irony is that just as Apple is beginning to catch up in clock speed, everyone is now becoming more concerned about battery life, an area where Apple is way behind. I think it comes from Apple's tendency to be more reactive than innovative in the realm of hardware. Apple uses existing hardware innovatively (read: iPod and iMac) but they don't really produce innovative hardware (read dual core Pentium M with 8 hour battery life).

Apple is incredibly innovative in software development, but they're still lagging behind in the hardware department.

I understand what you are trying to say but you are still using the wrong example when it comes to the processors since no current computer companies produce processor chips. Of course if Apple made their own processors they would be far ahead of what's available today.

[foo2]

Originally posted by hldan:
Some of the posters here are on drugs if they think that Apple is only an innovator in software and not hardware. The first wireless notebook and desktop computers were from Apple. Wireless desktops are still scarce on PC.
[/B]

Wireless desktops aren't scarce - it's just that most people don't need them. if they did, PC users buy $10 USB 802.11b/g adapters that put the machine on the network... problem solved.

Fiber Optic light up keyboards are nowhere to be found on any of the Pentium laptops. Built-in bluetooth and now BT 2.0 and slot load drives are first on Apple notebooks more than 2 years ago. Few PC notebooks are just jumping on the BT bandwagon. Apple is always first and ahead on hardware.
Now if processor specs are the real concern here then that's only one aspect and people still can't say that Apple is behind on hardware based on processors only. Putting in the latest efficient processor doesn't make the Centrinos innovative. [/B]

I'd have to say that it does. No matter how much stuff you have in there, if you have no power going from the battery to the CPU, it won't work. The Centrino architecture has been very successful - lower CPU cycles with the same amount of overall work, with lower battery usage.

The PC forums make the same complaints, they wish their computers were up to date on the hardware that Macs have. This is one of the reasons Apple only supplies a USB cable with the new iPods is because PC companies are too cheap and not innovative to include firewire in their notebooks. [/B]

Lots of notebooks have firewire nowadays. Not FW800, but *plenty* have FW400. All the Sony's, most of the Gateways, and plenty of other brands.

[RonnieoftheRose]

Not one of you has ever said anything about how a Mac's GPU is doing a lot of graphics processing just to render the GUI in real time. Have Windows run the equivalent of Quartz and any Centrino based machine will have its battery life cut down to the same level as a PowerBook. Longhorn no doubt will. Battery life is not only about CPUs but also GPUs and other components.

In comparison PowerBooks are equally efficient but when you're running the latest technologies there will always be a penalty. It's a very worthwhile penalty in OSX's case.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by hldan:
Of course if Apple made their own processors they would be far ahead of what's available today.

Of course

[msuper69]

This is a tad off-topic but it kills me the way Intel acts like they invented wireless networking. Those stupid ads with the Blue Man Group (a bunch of dumbaxxes if I ever saw any) are absurd. Apple had wireless back in 1999 - in the previous century for crying out loud!

The G5 PowerBook w/Tiger (when it (the G5 PB) finally gets here - and it will) will kick some serious Wintel butt.

[hldan]

Originally posted by foo2:
Wireless desktops aren't scarce - it's just that most people don't need them. if they did, PC users buy $10 USB 802.11b/g adapters that put the machine on the network... problem solved.


I'd have to say that it does. No matter how much stuff you have in there, if you have no power going from the battery to the CPU, it won't work. The Centrino architecture has been very successful - lower CPU cycles with the same amount of overall work, with lower battery usage.





Lots of notebooks have firewire nowadays. Not FW800, but *plenty* have FW400. All the Sony's, most of the Gateways, and plenty of other brands.

A wireless card for $10.00 or an adaptor? Show me a $10.00 complete wireless solution for a current desktop PC. And people do need wireless for desktops as their internet connection is not always where the computer is sitting.

I never said the Centrino's weren't successful and designed well, I said they are not innovative? What's innovative about them? Built-in wireless? Lower processing power to conserve battery? Lightweight? Everything that Mac notebooks have been for years.

Most PC notebooks do not have true firewire. That's a 4 pin IEEE 1394 connector that has no power to operate and charge peripherals. This is why Apple now allows charging via USB 2 for iPods because PC notebooks cannot charge through their IEEE 1394 port. The firewire name is synonymous with the power it provides, it's not just what it connects to.

[wuzup101]

Apple notebooks are beautiful, stylish, and feature ritch. That being said they have a lot of bells and whistles but lack in some major areas. With this new update of OSX I can't even say that they wake reliably anymore. My powerbook has had problems waking from sleep and automatically spanning my dual monitor setup since 10.3.8 came out. Not to mention that I still can't use my external DVD drive without a hack. And even that doesn't work all the time... Little things like battery life and LCD resolution also need to be addressed. Don't get me wrong, I think my powerbook is a great machine. But I'd definitely trade my 6 pin FW 400 port for 3 more hours of battery life.

[automaguy]

I have come to expect much more from you people. Most the time you are relatively fare when it comes to computers, whether you are discussing pc's or mac's.

I would like to clarify some things though, coming from the PC side...

Centrino is not just some pathetic technology that lowers the CPU's clock cycle as has been suggested earlier. It actually (like a g4) has combined several of instructions so that more information can pass through per clock cycle. (Hence why the Pentium M 1.6 GHz easily beats a Pentium 4 HT 2.6 GHz.) Look up Micro-Ops Fusion!

About this whole connecting monitors... well then just try some laptop that actually is built decently (like an Asus). It isn't Centrino, Pentium M, Intel, or Windows fault if you can't actively connect/switch/alter displays on the fly it is all the motherboard and bios installed on the particular laptop. (AND sadly most PC manufactures are all about the money --> cheap parts for maximum profit) What I'm saying is pick some company that cares about their product and you will see that it works just as splendidly as a mac's!

For wireless as long as it is actually a Centrino and you use the supplied software (aka Intel's instead of Windows) the networking always works, without a hitch.

Battery life is one area where the Centrino does blow the g4 laptops away. My laptop (with standard battery) can play 5.25 hours of DVD's before dying. And with DVD's do realize that the GPU and CPU are both working to render the image and keep things progressing. (I don't really appreciate that comment that if the CPU/GPU actually were running then the Centrino battery life would be cut down to the g4's... it still surpasses it).

Oh and just so you know... they do make laptops that you fiber optic cables to light up the keyboards... and they do automatically turn on (while simultaneously dimming the screen). Say hello to the over a year old Asus W1N!!!!!!!!!!

Asus W1N



And don't think that Asus is just stealing things from apple when you notice the design of the W1.... Asus designs and builds much of the PowerBook for Apple .

[analogika]

Originally posted by automaguy:
About this whole connecting monitors... well then just try some laptop that actually is built decently (like an Asus). It isn't Centrino, Pentium M, Intel, or Windows fault if you can't actively connect/switch/alter displays on the fly it is all the motherboard and bios installed on the particular laptop.

Well, that sort of makes my point, except blaming a different aspect of hardware (though I nowhere blamed lack of active monitor-sensing on the Centrino, Pentium M, or Intel.

Point is:

Buy a Windows laptop, but don't expect stuff like this, because *something* is most probably going to throw a brick in your path.

Buy a Powerbook, and this sh�t just works.

[Pierre B.]

Originally posted by automaguy:

For wireless as long as it is actually a Centrino and you use the supplied software (aka Intel's instead of Windows) the networking always works, without a hitch.

That's just not true generally. My wife has a Dell Centrino D800 that has too much trouble to connect to our home wireless network. It seems it gets confused by the other 2 or 3 wireless networks of the neighbors in our range. You select in the list the network to connect to, and it just picks up whatever it likes, and it may give you internet access or may not. In other cases, it just switch or interrupts network connections, without being asked to do so. At the same time, our Powerbook has zero trouble to connect to whatever of the networks in our range. And it doesn't switch between them randomly.

Battery life is one area where the Centrino does blow the g4 laptops away. My laptop (with standard battery) can play 5.25 hours of DVD's before dying.

Again not true generally. And I have as example my wife's Dell once more. Although its battery life is really good (I have not exact numbers), when playing DVDs we never go past 2 hours. In such case we have it always plugged in. And yes, I always make sure I kill this virus scan software that sucks too much of CPU power, before opening a DVD, otherwise playback will start stuttering. Something that even the modest 867 MHz Powerbook does not suffer from, even when the CPU is much taxed by other processes during DVD playback.

[hldan]

Originally posted by automaguy:
I have come to expect much more from you people. Most the time you are relatively fare when it comes to computers, whether you are discussing pc's or mac's.

I would like to clarify some things though, coming from the PC side...

Centrino is not just some pathetic technology that lowers the CPU's clock cycle as has been suggested earlier. It actually (like a g4) has combined several of instructions so that more information can pass through per clock cycle. (Hence why the Pentium M 1.6 GHz easily beats a Pentium 4 HT 2.6 GHz.) Look up Micro-Ops Fusion!

About this whole connecting monitors... well then just try some laptop that actually is built decently (like an Asus). It isn't Centrino, Pentium M, Intel, or Windows fault if you can't actively connect/switch/alter displays on the fly it is all the motherboard and bios installed on the particular laptop. (AND sadly most PC manufactures are all about the money --> cheap parts for maximum profit) What I'm saying is pick some company that cares about their product and you will see that it works just as splendidly as a mac's!

For wireless as long as it is actually a Centrino and you use the supplied software (aka Intel's instead of Windows) the networking always works, without a hitch.

Battery life is one area where the Centrino does blow the g4 laptops away. My laptop (with standard battery) can play 5.25 hours of DVD's before dying. And with DVD's do realize that the GPU and CPU are both working to render the image and keep things progressing. (I don't really appreciate that comment that if the CPU/GPU actually were running then the Centrino battery life would be cut down to the g4's... it still surpasses it).

Oh and just so you know... they do make laptops that you fiber optic cables to light up the keyboards... and they do automatically turn on (while simultaneously dimming the screen). Say hello to the over a year old Asus W1N!!!!!!!!!!

Asus W1N



And don't think that Asus is just stealing things from apple when you notice the design of the W1.... Asus designs and builds much of the PowerBook for Apple .

Amazing how you have to defend your precious laptop as you know that it has stolen much of the Powerbooks "innovative" design. I'm not saying that it's not true but there's nowhere even on Asus' web sight that it states a backlit fiber optic keyboard like Apple's nor does it mention about an automatic light adjusting screen. I'm lovin that $2200 price that lacks a DVD burner.

My statement still remains that Apple is still the innovator when it comes to computer hardware. Most things coming to the PC world now were in Apple years ago.
Yesterdays Mac Notebooks:
Say Hello to wireless (B) 5 years ago and (G) 3 years ago and supurb battery life since the first iBook.
Say Hello to gigabit ethernet several years ago.
Say Hello to bluetooth 3 years ago.

Todays Powerbooks:
Say Hello to unmatched size and weight for a 17" screen.
Slot loading drives, still small on the PC side.
Bluetooth 2.0. nowhere on the Centrino.
Sudden motion sensor for HD stability. I'm sure this will be in the Centrinos next year maybe.
Still more up to date ports for connectivity on more devices. Even the
Centrinos still use the ever so aging grandfather parallel port.

Say Hello to Apple never copying the PC notebook designs as this is the case with the newer Centrinos trying to look like Powerbooks.
Innovation means taking the chance and making something long before it gets popular.

These are just hardware innovations alone that have nothing to do with Mac OSX vs. Windows XP. So to the orignal poster Apple is not behind on innovation. Don't let Centrino processor designs overshadow the fact that PC notebooks still lack innovation.
Don't misunderstand, I like some of the newer PC's (minus terrible Windows) but they just aren't ahead of the game.

[Garage81]

through work, ive used ~10 different laptops, even the latest tablet PCs from toshiba.

nothing has even just simply worked, like a powerbook.

[SEkker]

I just spent the morning on a dual G5 -- will be nice when this level of speed lands in a desktop.

The reality is that we are experiencing a convergence of form factors for laptops, with the Apple machines representing what many consider to be the best combination of features and weight.

I am looking forward to the next generation of machines, whether they are dual core cpus, useful tablets -- I think the current machines are just the beginning, and they represent an area where the PC world is innovating without Apple's lead -- or something else entirely. Everyone wins when Apple succeeds.

[Michael1980]

Originally posted by hldan:
Amazing how you have to defend your precious laptop as you know that it has stolen much of the Powerbooks "innovative" design. I'm not saying that it's not true but there's nowhere even on Asus' web sight that it states a backlit fiber optic keyboard like Apple's nor does it mention about an automatic light adjusting screen. I'm lovin that $2200 price that lacks a DVD burner.

My statement still remains that Apple is still the innovator when it comes to computer hardware. Most things coming to the PC world now were in Apple years ago.
Yesterdays Mac Notebooks:
Say Hello to wireless (B) 5 years ago and (G) 3 years ago and supurb battery life since the first iBook.
Say Hello to gigabit ethernet several years ago.
Say Hello to bluetooth 3 years ago.

Todays Powerbooks:
Say Hello to unmatched size and weight for a 17" screen.
Slot loading drives, still small on the PC side.
Bluetooth 2.0. nowhere on the Centrino.
Sudden motion sensor for HD stability. I'm sure this will be in the Centrinos next year maybe.
Still more up to date ports for connectivity on more devices. Even the
Centrinos still use the ever so aging grandfather parallel port.

Some facts:
Asus makes the Powerbooks.
Samsung makes a 17" of similar size.
HD sensor was on IBM before Powerbooks.
There is no paralles on my 3 year old windoze laptop.


-----
I think that one company doing software and hardware is a great idea, one of the best advantages of Apple over others.
Amazing design, amazing software, but average G4, Motorola's fault I guess. But still, even with that, the Powerbooks are still the best laptops out there IMO.

[hldan]

Originally posted by Michael1980:
Some facts:
Asus makes the Powerbooks.
Samsung makes a 17" of similar size.
HD sensor was on IBM before Powerbooks.
There is no paralles on my 3 year old windoze laptop.


-----
I think that one company doing software and hardware is a great idea, one of the best advantages of Apple over others.
Amazing design, amazing software, but average G4, Motorola's fault I guess. But still, even with that, the Powerbooks are still the best laptops out there IMO.

Okay, I'm not disputing the fact about Asus making the Powerbooks but I couldn't find anywhere on a google search that backs up that statement. Could you please show some info about this?

Also it's not even a comparison saying that Samsung makes a similar size 17" when they are not even available in the U.S.

[ddma]

At work I have one P4 2.4GHz desktop and one IBM ThinkPad Centrino 1.5GHz laptop, but I never use them. I just feel faster when I work on the Mac because of the stability of the OS and great multi-tasking. The PC honestly is 10% faster when running a 1 min filter but in this one min + extra 20 sec on the Mac, I can check e-mail, browse the Internet. Would you just sit down and finish that work 10% faster but in the end you lose the time for doing other things at the same time?

D.

[Link]

Asus assembles the powerbooks under a contract with apple, but apple still designs them.

[olePigeon]

I like my backlit keyboard.

[Michael1980]

Originally posted by Link:
Asus assembles the powerbooks under a contract with apple, but apple still designs them.

And Asus copies them for their own laptops. Asus and AsusAlpha are going to split from what I hear into different locations for that not to happen again. Apparently Apple was not happy about the clones (no wonder).

[Michael1980]

Originally posted by hldan:
Okay, I'm not disputing the fact about Asus making the Powerbooks but I couldn't find anywhere on a google search that backs up that statement. Could you please show some info about this?

Also it's not even a comparison saying that Samsung makes a similar size 17" when they are not even available in the U.S.

You will have to trust us on this. Apple would like not to advertise this fact too much.

[betasp]

I am having a hard time with the premise. The poster is discussing what is going to happen with intel in the future.

More to the point though, my 12" PB is giving me over 3 hours of use on battery, which is right in line with my wife's dell laptop. The cases of laptops getting 7-9 hours of battery life are for units specifically designed for battery life like the Panasonics with really large capacity batteries.

[Garage81]

it would be just as easy for apple to say that they are aiming for 8hrs of battery life on the next whatever.

[mbryda]

Originally posted by automaguy:

Centrino is not just some pathetic technology that lowers the CPU's clock cycle as has been suggested earlier. It actually (like a g4) has combined several of instructions so that more information can pass through per clock cycle. (Hence why the Pentium M 1.6 GHz easily beats a Pentium 4 HT 2.6 GHz.) Look up Micro-Ops Fusion!

And also like the G's and AMD's they used large caches and an efficient CPU design to lower clockspeed and increasing performance. It's what InHell should have done for the Peee4.

Now that the P4 is at the ends of its ramp up, the "clockspeed is king" crapola from Intel is biting them in the A$$.

What I'm saying is pick some company that cares about their product and you will see that it works just as splendidly as a mac's!

I use a Thinkpad and the switching works OK, but nowhere as easy or as seemless as the wife's iBook.

Sleep mode kills the battery in 1-2 days. After about 3-4 days weirdness sets in (networking usually) and things stop working. At no time have I gone a month without a reboot like my wife's iBook does.

For wireless as long as it is actually a Centrino and you use the supplied software (aka Intel's instead of Windows) the networking always works, without a hitch.

I've seen numerous Shitrinos and the wireless software is horrible. Networking bridges, various little applets and a whole lot of BS to make it work. No thanks. This has been on Dell, Toshiba, and IBM. I could only imagine the mess from a teir 2-3 vendor.

Shitrino was/is just marketing drivel from Intel.

5.25 hours of DVD's before dying. And with DVD's do realize that the GPU and CPU are both working to render the image and keep things progressing.

Not any more. They used to when CPU's couldn't keep up. Now it's all done in software as the CPU has plenty of speed and clockcycles to do it all.

[hldan]

The original poster did make one good point. I just saw on the web today that Intel is introducing new P4's with 2MB L2 cache and 64 bit processing. I have never understood what difference does it make what processor goes into a computer. Why wouldn't Apple just use Intel's chips in all their computers. I know Apple is using Intel for the Xserve so why won't Apple jump ship and leave Motorola if they can't produce processors with great specs like Intel epecially since IBM doesn't seem to have a mobile G5 chip.
Does Apple have to tolerate it or will the Mac OS only work with these processors?

[betasp]

"Does Apple have to tolerate it or will the Mac OS only work with these processors?"


Yes, Apple does have to tolerate it. It is debateable to what extent OSX can run on the PC but you have to remember Apple is a hardware company and not a software company. If they used intel processors they would lose the proprietary nature of the Mac line and would be forced to compete on price. Apple must live with the negatives of Motorolla and IBM in order to keep their margins high for their shareholders. Apple profits almost double per PC what venders like Dell do.

[DylanG]

Originally posted by automaguy:
For wireless as long as it is actually a Centrino and you use the supplied software (aka Intel's instead of Windows) the networking always works, without a hitch.

That's not my experience. Most of the time my Centrino will switch to the desired configured network or pick up an unsecured network if available.... but maybe 10 percent of the time when I switch WiFi locations I have to manually help it.

But the most annoying thing is that it takes 10-20 seconds to reconnect after sleep. I'd love to know of a Windows laptop that is ready to go (including network connectivity) a couple of seconds after waking up from sleep.

[hldan]

Originally posted by DylanG:
That's not my experience. Most of the time my Centrino will switch to the desired configured network or pick up an unsecured network if available.... but maybe 10 percent of the time when I switch WiFi locations I have to manually help it.

But the most annoying thing is that it takes 10-20 seconds to reconnect after sleep. I'd love to know of a Windows laptop that is ready to go (including network connectivity) a couple of seconds after waking up from sleep.

This is another area where it's true that Apple has been more innovative. Wireless works everytime on Apple computers. Myself and all of friends that have Powerbooks have easily connected to a wireless Windows world without a hitch.
A friend of mine came to my home with his new Sony Vaio notebook with built-in wireless and the Sony immediately picked up signal and recognized the name on my connection. The problem was getting it to connect. The Sony wouldn't ever accept my password. Finally I had to shut off my encryption for it to work. I was afraid to leave my connection unprotected plus I was concerned my friends Windows notebook would contract a virus on an open network from nearby hackers so I had to re-encrypt my network but he couldn't use his Sony. Apple needs help with long range reception issues on the Powerbooks but they are far more innovative with wireless than Centrinos.

[phataccord04]

You cant compare a RICS to a CISC processor. With a Pentium chip and windows they need Gigahertz to mathmatically get through what it needs to do. But the faster they make those chips eventually they will run into errors, unless they windows has a very good checker. By that i mean Windows XP and Windows 98, Windows XP's handling feature of memory is very good over Win98. They had to change this or update it when people were running 2GB of memory and still running low.

With Apple processors its way diffrent how algoryths get solved mathmatically, which i rather not get into. some people say the G3 800mhz was as fast as the PIII 800mhz but there is NO simple conversion.

As far as battery what screen are they running. The Dell D800 battery life sucks. Also if they want to compare battery life look at the weight and heigh of a power book. If our power book battery was bigger we would get a ton of life outta it to

[analogika]

Originally posted by hldan:
The original poster did make one good point. I just saw on the web today that Intel is introducing new P4's with 2MB L2 cache and 64 bit processing. I have never understood what difference does it make what processor goes into a computer. Why wouldn't Apple just use Intel's chips in all their computers. I know Apple is using Intel for the Xserve so why won't Apple jump ship and leave Motorola if they can't produce processors with great specs like Intel epecially since IBM doesn't seem to have a mobile G5 chip.
Does Apple have to tolerate it or will the Mac OS only work with these processors?

Apple's XServe does NOT run on Intel CPUs.

IIRC, there are one or two Intel chips in there related to the networking subsystem, but that is it.

Apple's Mac OS X runs natively on Motorola/IBM/Freescale PowerPC CPU chips, and that's it.

[hldan]

Originally posted by analogika:
Apple's XServe does NOT run on Intel CPUs.

IIRC, there are one or two Intel chips in there related to the networking subsystem, but that is it.

Apple's Mac OS X runs natively on Motorola/IBM/Freescale PowerPC CPU chips, and that's it.

Maybe we are not exactly on the same page about the Xserve Raid running on Intel chips but here's a link to the Cnet article that shows the machine.

http://news.com.com/Photo+Intel-powe...3-5598799.html

This second link is the actual article. It mentions nothing about networking. Apple has stated that they are not going to implement Intel processors in the consumer Mac computers but this new Xserve is using them for processing power.

http://news.com.com/Apple+has+Intel+...83.html?tag=nl

[Kurt23]

I don't really know how much faster a centrino is than a powerbook...can't be enough time to make me worried. I have a IBM t41 P-M 1.6 Ghz and a powerbook 15" 1.5 Ghz. Both of them get the job done for the most part.

But no doubt the Powerbook feels a lot easier to use. Whether it is adding hardware, downloading from the web, waking from sleep, the backlit keyboard, easily accessible USB AND Firewire ports, the ability to minimize all your windows at once to get to the desktop, no viruses, no pop-ups, and much less freezes and crashes (virtually none). I think the person who mentioned that it might take 10 more seconds to render something in photoshop, but in that time you can do something else without experiencing a slow down.

And don't give me that "well my dell can do that too" because its all seamless and just happens without us even thinking or having to do anything. Yeah maybe you can find some Window machines that have some of these features, maybe you add a firewire card, maybe you buy a pop-up blocker...get my point.

I don't have a bias towards either...really. I can get my job done in my T41, but anyone who uses both on a dailt basis knows the difference. I mean you can't even do a hard shut down without XP asking you numerous times if you really want to end now...YES already....ok enough with the rant