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some black NBA players dress like white, old women
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PacHead
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Jun 24, 2005, 05:07 PM
 
Ok, here's my little observation for today.

I'm watching the news, and there's this interview with some megarich NBA player, and they're talking about investments. The NBA player is pretty articulate and seems like a nice enough guy, but what's up with all of that "bling bling" crap though ?

He has two sparkling, diamond earings on, which wouldn't look out of place if they were hanging on the ears of some rich, wrinkly faced, old white woman, the socialite type that would also wear furs. There's this huge diamond bracelet on the NBA players wrist, which also looks like something some old woman would wear.

So basically, what's up with all of the bling, bling crap ? It is dumb, boastful and looks really ridiculous, unless your rolemodels happen to be rich, old, snobby, socialite types. Sure, i wish I made tens of millions a dollars a year also, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to look like a fool in the process.

Down with the "bling, bling" crap. Even worse is when you see the average, poor person, the 99% of people who are not NBA stars, or HipHop artists sport some cheap looking "ice".

My extremely mild rant for today is done.

     
Albert Pujols
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Jun 24, 2005, 05:10 PM
 
Maybe white old women dress like black NBA players. Ever think of that.

     
PacHead  (op)
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Jun 24, 2005, 05:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by Albert Pujols
Maybe white old women dress like black NBA players. Ever think of that.

I think that white, old women have been around for way longer than the NBA.

     
E's Lil Theorem
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Jun 24, 2005, 05:19 PM
 
"Money attracts money."

NBA players have a different way of showing that they're rich than your typical rich person, but in the end, that's all they're trying to do.
     
PacHead  (op)
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Jun 24, 2005, 05:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by E's Lil Theorem
"Money attracts money."

NBA players have a different way of showing that they're rich than your typical rich person, but in the end, that's all they're trying to do.
Yeah, I suppose you're right. I can agree with that, that makes sense. .
     
Captain Obvious
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Jun 24, 2005, 05:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by E's Lil Theorem
NBA players have a different way of showing that they're rich than your typical rich person, but in the end, that's all they're trying to do.
Yeah I hear custom made, jewel encrusted name plates and teeth appreciate in value much faster than bonds and real estate.

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ghporter
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Jun 24, 2005, 05:32 PM
 
The problem I see with sports figures in general and their manner of dress is that a lot of them appear to have spent their lives playing the game and never learning things like style-or that a certain level of restraint makes what they do wear look that much better.

I'm saying this from an "anti-thug" standpoint, not from anything else: I think too many sports people, and NBA and NFL players in particular, try to look too "gangsta." Instead of dressing and behaving like they have proven that hard work and talent can get you somewhere, they dress like they want to be pimps.

Now I happen to believe that a "pimp" is somebody that subjugates prostitutes and takes the money they get from lying on their backs-not the nicest kind of person. In my opinion there's not much difference between someone who controlls the lives of prostitutes and someone who controlls the lives of others through slavery. It's kind of ironic to me that so many young people see the "pimp lifestyle" as something cool without knowing any of the reality of what real pimps do.

So I'm off my soapbox now. A lot of old white women dress the way they do because they just don't care if other people think their clothes and jewelry are over the top; they figure they've earned it. I don't see a problem with someone wearing thousands of dollars of jewelry if they want to, but their role and style models should, in my opinion, be people who at least have class and are not truly bad people.

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Jun 24, 2005, 05:48 PM
 
posturing by the "bling" and hip-hoppers is a sign of immaturity.

black people IMO need to ditch this 'hood stuff and try to get respected by society. they speak of equality and all that but their most famous examples of their culture and race is built of "showing off" and "ghettoness".

i think Jay-Z and Usher are acceptable as the fine line between living the hip-hop lifestyle and looking like a respectable man. others with the oversized everything and as much "ice" as possible make themselves look bad as well as their entire community.

white people who immitate them are equally ridiculous. i made those comments about blacks because it's black people who are the most vocal about their rights. so i think their community should put up or shut up. (i think creativity and fashion are great but in NYC, i have seen a hip hop fashion line named after a jail in subway ads. sorry, stuff like that make the general population think hip-hop culture is negative and set back race relations)
     
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Jun 24, 2005, 10:28 PM
 
deleted
( Last edited by nredman; Jun 26, 2005 at 10:47 AM. )

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toneloco28
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Jun 24, 2005, 10:49 PM
 
I was debating whether or not i was going to respond to this thread, seeing as how so many people like to make things so "black and white", pardon the pun. Alot of black people do not come from money and have never experienced what it is to have real money. Person's wish to assume that once one begins to make alot of cash, naturally they would beget qualities of a person having money all their life. Im sure few here have experienced having to literally wonder where your next meal is coming from, so it's all perspective. I'm a black man and honestly speaking am sometimes upset and embarrassed by "some" in my cultures overt show of excess. I also am smart enough to realize that has more to do with feelings of inferiority, rather than just blind ignorance. They want to show that they-we can also attain certain levels of "financial" success, and feel the need to display it because they have been deprived of it for so long. Actions are preceded by experiences and more often than not, this is our first taste of real money. Yes it may appear foolish, and totally unnecessary to many of you, yet i can assure you it is not as cut and dry as your making it.......

Fyi...I attended a predominantly Black University, and the majority of person's there shared similar views. I am the norm...not the exception!

Just imho
     
Mithras
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Jun 25, 2005, 08:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by PacHead
Ok, here's my little observation for today.

I'm watching the news, and there's this interview with some megarich NBA player, and they're talking about investments. The NBA player is pretty articulate
What is it with calling black people "articulate"? I think that's the #1 word used to say, "...and he wasn't nearly as stupid or ill-educated as you might think, what with him being black."

funny, eh?
     
Randman
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Jun 25, 2005, 08:42 AM
 
Better than some suburban rich kid trying to dress like a homey?

This is a computer-generated message and needs no signature.
     
ghporter
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Jun 25, 2005, 08:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by Mithras
What is it with calling black people "articulate"? I think that's the #1 word used to say, "...and he wasn't nearly as stupid or ill-educated as you might think, what with him being black."

funny, eh?
This was pretty much appropriate for the context of his post. If you see someone wearing "hood" and "gangsta" styles, do you EXPECT him to be articulate and well spoken, or do you expect him to communicate in a manner consistent with his dress? The contrast between style of dress and manner of communication is something I can completely relate to. At my school, I see lots of young people who dress in styles that say one thing about them, while they express themselves in completely different styles. I'll admit that the connection with articulation and fashion is not a social norm, but it is a powerful indicator.

In society, we all wear costumes to help identify ourselves to the world. When we speak from a script that does not mesh with our costume (as in doing sci-fi dialog in Shakespearean costume) there is a disconnect that is at least noticable, if not jarring. It is part of the way we're socialized, and we can't help but notice the disconnect, if not necessarily on a concious level.

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Jun 25, 2005, 08:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by Mithras
What is it with calling black people "articulate"? I think that's the #1 word used to say, "...and he wasn't nearly as stupid or ill-educated as you might think, what with him being black."

funny, eh?
The question of whether African-American Vernacular English is a legitimate dialect is still debated. Personally I don't think it's any more of a legitimate dialect than your typical redneck-speak or Valley-ese (which some would describe as dialects spoken in Appalachia and Southern California); it deserves exactly as much respect as these others get. I'm still torn on the issue myself, but it does have some fascinating constructs. I'm fond, for example, of the habitual be; I think it is one of the neatest grammatical constructs to come along in quite some time. This is all for another topic, but I'm trying to provide a little background.

There seems to be a phenomenon among famous Americans which, while not quite unique to African-Americans, is disproportionately pervasive among them. Specifically, almost all celebrities from other backgrounds and cultures adopt (or at least approach, with varying degrees of proficiency) formal English when speaking in public (the major exception being comedians doing a routine, who often caricature their own dialect). However, most black celebrities don't do this. Furthermore -and this part is almost entirely unique to African-American celebrities- those who do adopt formal English in public are ridiculed by other blacks for doing so, often under the accusation that it's somehow 'selling out'.

I don't claim to know why this phenomenon exists. I think it's a real problem, because these are supposed to be role models for young people. Of course, it could be said to be a problem that most of today's role models are actors or athletes: people in positions which will be inaccessible to all but a very few no matter their birth, and therefore not entirely realistic. But I really do believe that the decline in English-speaking skills among our young people (and this is true to varying degrees, none of them good, among all races) is directly attributable to our role models not speaking it. When the role models don't deem it necessary, is it any wonder that the youth who look up to them wouldn't either?
You are in Soviet Russia. It is dark. Grue is likely to be eaten by YOU!
     
Mithras
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Jun 25, 2005, 10:10 AM
 
References in popular culture:

Chris Rock routine: (can't find a transcript)
White people say they are voting for Colin Powell, but they AINT. All I ever hear from white people is "he speaks so well, hes so well spoken" Hes a ****ing human being how do you expect him to speak. He speaks so well is something you say about retarded people that can talk! What do you expect him to speak like? Something like some day I'm going to be PRES..O..DENT.
http://www.rent-a-negro.com/negroabout.html (A satirical site created by an artist)
rent-a-negro.com is a state-of-the-arts service that allows you the chance to promote your connection with a creative, articulate, friendly, attractive, and pleasing African American person.
http://www.blackpeopleloveus.com/ (another satirical site)
Johnny is generous enough to remark upon how "articulate" I am! That makes me feel good!
ABC News transcript
TONY PERKINS, ABC NEWS

How recently do you want to talk about? Sure, absolutely. I mean, since I was a little kid. When you go to high school and, and the more people you meet, you hear, I've heard all those things. "Oh, you're so articulate," like people are surprised. Or I've had people, when I was in college I had a guy that I met for the first time, I had talked to on the phone. And I guess I didn't sound Black enough, in his, the way he thought Black people should sound, and when he met me, he was literally. You know, like, oh, I didn't know. I didn't expect. So, it happens all the time.
Random book by some woman in Philadelphia:
You're So Articulate! (And Other Things White People Should Never Say to Black People)
( Last edited by Mithras; Jun 25, 2005 at 10:42 AM. )
     
lavar78
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Jun 25, 2005, 10:40 AM
 
Ah, www.blackpeopleloveus.com: good times, good times...

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MallyMal
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Jun 25, 2005, 12:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter
I think too many sports people, and NBA and NFL players in particular, try to look too "gangsta."
So, umm, what is looking "gangsta?" Would you know a "gangsta" if you saw one? Matter fact, define gangsta for me.
     
MallyMal
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Jun 25, 2005, 01:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by Apple Pro Underwear
black people IMO need to ditch this 'hood stuff and try to get respected by society.
How many black do you know? No really, how many do you actually know? Not some cat you saw in the subway. For some reason I don't think you know many because you wouldn't say what you said because you would know many examples that do not fit your generalization. Also, are you admitting that black people aren't respected by society?

Originally Posted by Apple Pro Underwear
they speak of equality and all that but their most famous examples of their culture and race is built of "showing off" and "ghettoness".
So, black people as a race are defined by the people you have seen to be show offs and ghetto? From your statement, black culture is defined by these folks too. You are star struck. Imagine that.

Originally Posted by Apple Pro Underwear
i think Jay-Z and Usher are acceptable as the fine line between living the hip-hop lifestyle and looking like a respectable man.
You're a trip. Respectable men, what makes them respectable? You only point to their clothes. So, clothes make them respectable men? Clothes come off and be can changed.

Originally Posted by Apple Pro Underwear
white people who immitate them are equally ridiculous. i made those comments about blacks because it's black people who are the most vocal about their rights.
Rights? You are talking about how people dress. What does this have to do with black people being vocal about their Civil Rights?

Originally Posted by Apple Pro Underwear
sorry, stuff like that make the general population think hip-hop culture is negative and set back race relations)
So, baggy jeans and Timberlands set back race relations? You are completely off your rocker. You act as if you want black people to dress a certain way just to please the people who may stereotype. This isn't the problem of the person wearing baggy jeans, it's the problem of the person making the judgement. THAT is what f*cks up race relations.
( Last edited by MallyMal; Jun 25, 2005 at 01:54 PM. )
     
Kevin
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Jun 25, 2005, 02:19 PM
 
It's ok to make fun of a southerner talking the way they do. Esp with the saying of nuclear.

But once you start making fun of the way someone from the city talks, BOY OH BOY, now that is racism!

It's just not black people talking this way. It's just not white people wanting to be black talking this way.

In certain parts of bigger cities, you get this from everyone.
     
Apple Pro Underwear
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Jun 25, 2005, 02:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by MallyMal
How many black do you know? No really, how many do you actually know? Not some cat you saw in the subway. For some reason I don't think you know many because you wouldn't say what you said because you would know many examples that do not fit your generalization. Also, are you admitting that black people aren't respected by society?
I would say I am currently friends with about 5 black people. I was invited to a predominantly black birthday party for my co-worker, Katrina, yesterday but did not go because of a doctor's appointment.

So, black people as a race are defined the people you have seen to be show offs and ghetto? From your statement, black culture is defined by these folks too. You are star struck. Imagine that.
You're asking me if the black sterotype is real. IT IS REAL and blacks feed into it.

I can personally attest that Chow Yun Fat, William Hung and Jet Li set a bad tone for asians because of their mangled english. this feeds into the "ching-chong" asian stereo type. I don't like it, so i make sure to speak my english as clear as possible. I do my part to fight this.

You're a trip. Respectable men, what make them respectable? You only point to their clothes. So, clothes make them respectable men. Clothes come off and be can changed.
A person goes to a job interview properly dressed because they wanted to be viewed as professional. I believe that in society, a person dress as they want to be perceived. I think of myself as "normal" so I wear clothes that fit.

The "Hip Hop style" can be interpreted in many ways. I stated that Jay-Z and Usher show a balance of Hip Hop with a little bit of restraint, achieving creative fashion without going too far.

Some Hip Hop is associated with violence. Especially during when Hip Hop first became super popular in the late 80s (NWA, Ice T, and etc). So some people associate Hip Hop fashion with violence. So is this how any body in society would want to appear? A style of clothing that is loosely related to violence? (once again, i will state... big shirt and large jeans is not that bad. big shirt, large jeans, du-rag, 3 live strong bracelets as well as the black ones that say true playa on it, large watch that hangs off their wrists like a bracelet, and a towel is what I think is over the top)


Rights? You are talking about how people dress. What does this have to do will black people being vocal about their civil rights?
It has everything to do with it! I'm a minority too. We are trying to fight stereotypes together. When a person adds fire to the fuel... How does that help fight stereotyping?

So, baggy jeans and Timberlands set back race relations? You are completely off your rocker. You act as if you want black people to dress a certain way just to please the people who may stereotype. This isn't the problem of the person wearing baggy jeans, it's the problem of the person making the judgement. THAT is what f*cks up race relations.
The history of black people in america has not always been great. Your people have done a lot to reverse the situation and I think racism, stereotyping and prejudice get better every year. If you wanted to speed up this process by decades... IMO, you should conform your outward appearance to more acceptable standards. It's one of the easiest things to do to appear more friendly that doesn't involve much but it's absolutely ignored.

(Just so you all understand, baggy jeans and large t-shirt is not terrible. if you go significantly more "accessorized" after that then the appearance starts to take on meaning.)
     
PacHead  (op)
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Jun 25, 2005, 02:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by KevinK
It's ok to make fun of a southerner talking the way they do. Esp with the saying of nuclear.

But once you start making fun of the way someone from the city talks, BOY OH BOY, now that is racism!

It's just not black people talking this way. It's just not white people wanting to be black talking this way.

In certain parts of bigger cities, you get this from everyone.
I'm from New York City. I'm actually a real New Yorker (born & bred), as opposed to the many "fake" people (out of towners) who are transplanted here from god knows where. I probably have a slight "New Yawk" accent, but the whole "ghetto" talk scene is horrible, and I'm not just lashing out against blacks. There's plenty of whites and every other color inbetween which uses this disgusting language, that is basically made for thugs.

I mean seriously, who talks like this ? When I see morons speak like this outside, I figure they are either some Hip Hop star keeping it "real", or they are some wanna be thug working at the local McDonalds. Usually, it's the latter, I would assume.


I can't take anybody seriously that uses the limited vocabulary of a sexist, high school drop out, prison inmate or something similiar along those lines.



Yo, my nigga, you know what I'm sayin' ?

And a big Holla to all my bitches !
     
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Jun 25, 2005, 02:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by PacHead
I'm from New York City. I'm actually a real New Yorker (born & bred), as opposed to the many "fake" people (out of towners) who are transplanted here from god knows where. I probably have a slight "New Yawk" accent, but the whole "ghetto" talk scene is horrible, and I'm not just lashing out against blacks. There's plenty of whites and every other color inbetween which uses this disgusting language, that is basically made for thugs.

I mean seriously, who talks like this ? When I see morons speak like this outside, I figure they are either some Hip Hop star keeping it "real", or they are some wanna be thug working at the local McDonalds. Usually, it's the latter, I would assume.


I can't take anybody seriously that uses the limited vocabulary of a sexist, high school drop out, prison inmate or something similiar along those lines.



Yo, my nigga, you know what I'm sayin' ?
Hey Mally Mal,

Read the above post.

You think people don't make basic judgements? Borderline stereotyping on appearance and first impressions? Think again because some of us are thinking that is the acceptable thing to do.
     
Kevin
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Jun 25, 2005, 02:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by PacHead
There's plenty of whites and every other color inbetween which uses this disgusting language, that is basically made for thugs.
BING, anytime I hear anyone talk like that, I can't help to think "What a punk"
Esp when doing so on purpose.

But that may be because I live in WV, and the people that DO talk like that ARE punks.

Yo, my nigga, you know what I'm sayin' ?

And a big Holla to all my bitches !
It's TAH DOPEST!11

YO!



BTW nothing RACIST about it.

We made fun of the Valley Girls for talking like idiots too.
     
exca1ibur
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Jun 25, 2005, 03:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by Apple Pro Underwear
Hey Mally Mal,

Read the above post.

You think people don't make basic judgements? Borderline stereotyping on appearance and first impressions? Think again because some of us are thinking that is the acceptable thing to do.
So that makes it okay to put all blacks in this category based on how they dress huh? As a black male myself I think that is a bunch of bullsh*t. You want to know about me have the balls to find out and not judge me based on how I look or dress. Assumptions are the mother of all f*ck ups. Just because someone might dress a certain way doesn't mean they ALL fit one category. I'm not for the baggy jean look either but I see a lot of people doign it black, white, asian, hipanic. Its a style like when people wore acid wash, and jeans with the knees out. I hated them all to be honest but I'm not gonna be as closed minded as most and judge someone based on what they look like. If I talk to the person and they talk like an idiot hey thats at least knowing the person, at least you attempted to know THAT person. You have your issues with THAT person, not try to bring down an entire race because you had an issue with one person. That is why this world is going to hell in a handbasket now.

My 2 cents...
     
ghporter
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Jun 25, 2005, 03:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by MallyMal
So, umm, what is looking "gangsta?" Would you know a "gangsta" if you saw one? Matter fact, define gangsta for me.
From Wikipedia:
Gangsta rap, also known as hardcore hip-hop refers to a subgenre of hip hop (rap music) which involves a lyrical focus on African American inner-city (ghetto) problems, and the violent lives and lifestyles of street-thugs and gangsters.
What I call "gangsta" is dress and behavior that emulates or personifies the street-thug, violent, drug-oriented subculture portrayed in "gangsta rap."

It seems that every such record is a litany of anti-female, anti-order, pro-drug addiction, pro-murder as a means to settle any arguement, "more bling!" more "I'm oppressed, so I'm going to go kill somebody and then get high" laced with profanity and often so based on local jargon-often local to as small an area as a few blocks in a neighborhood-that nobody from outside that area can understand anything but the profanity.

I'm not at all against rap-any well thought out and creatively written poetry is worth listening to. I'm against the use of profanity for its own sake, and the focus on self-destructive, family-destructive, culture-destructive nhilistic sentiment that so many young people have apparently embraced as an ideal. Work hard and learn a lot to succeed? Why, when you can murder someone, steal his drug distribution territory, and make lots of money? Until someone kills you and takes over himself.

A street thug is just that, too much muscle without enough brain to be productive, and kept that way by older thugs who have managed to survive by killing someone else first.

Yes, I have opinions on this. I've seen how African American communities can tear themselves apart, and I've seen how they can build themselves out of poverty and the grip of crime. I don't see any dishonor in using the system to beat the system.

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Jun 25, 2005, 03:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by exca1ibur
So that makes it okay to put all blacks in this category based on how they dress huh? As a black male myself I think that is a bunch of bullsh*t. You want to know about me have the balls to find out and not judge me based on how I look or dress. Assumptions are the mother of all f*ck ups. Just because someone might dress a certain way doesn't mean they ALL fit one category. I'm not for the baggy jean look either but I see a lot of people doign it black, white, asian, hipanic. Its a style like when people wore acid wash, and jeans with the knees out. I hated them all to be honest but I'm not gonna be as closed minded as most and judge someone based on what they look like. If I talk to the person and they talk like an idiot hey thats at least knowing the person, at least you attempted to know THAT person. You have your issues with THAT person, not try to bring down an entire race because you had an issue with one person. That is why this world is going to hell in a handbasket now.

My 2 cents...
I never put put all blacks in one category. I am fully aware the black population are diverse. I'll respond to your comment about "closed minded as most and judge someone based on what they look like".

We make basic judgements all the time. Nothing rascist about it. In NYC, it's a way of self preservation and it's necessary. Nobody gets to know random people on the street or subway well enough to base their judgments on anything else except for their outward appearance.

• I see 2 old ladies yakking away... I dont sit next to them on the subway because I know they are annoying to listen to on my way home.
• I see a old jewish guy, that looks smelly... i avoid him because... HE's Smelly!
• I see some hardcore gansta youth... i avoid them because it's dangerous.

is the preppy dude or old italian guy intimidating? Nope. Is the long island girl or the 40 yr old black woman reading the book intimidating? Nope. Is the guy dressed like a inner city hoodlum intimidating? YES. It's a look they purposefully wanted to achieve and they got it. I won't be sitting next to them because even if it's a 1% chance of something happening, it's worth it because i can avoid it if I sit next to the preppy dude or long island girl.
     
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Jun 25, 2005, 06:57 PM
 
As far as I've seen, none of the 2005 World Champion San Antonio Spurs are into that whole ghetto/gangsta/urban/hip-hop bling thing. They come off as a very diverse, intelligent, and humble group. Their words and deeds on and off the court as well as their wardrobe seem pretty real. Not like the aformentioned put-on act. Not like most of the marquee fat ad contract NBA playas at all. Win or lose that makes me a fan. Of course, I'll take the win. Excuse me now, I've got a victory parade to watch.
     
Cipher13
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Jun 25, 2005, 07:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by Mithras
What is it with calling black people "articulate"? I think that's the #1 word used to say, "...and he wasn't nearly as stupid or ill-educated as you might think, what with him being black."

funny, eh?
When I talk about football players down here, that's be one of my first observations. Whether they're white, or Maori, or whatever. I don't care what their race is; I think they're very likely to be stupid because they, for a living, bash into each other. Not because of their race.

Now substitute "black" in your comment with "footballer", as appropriate.
     
ghporter
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Jun 25, 2005, 07:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by quesera
As far as I've seen, none of the 2005 World Champion San Antonio Spurs are into that whole ghetto/gangsta/urban/hip-hop bling thing. They come off as a very diverse, intelligent, and humble group. Their words and deeds on and off the court as well as their wardrobe seem pretty real. Not like the aformentioned put-on act. Not like most of the marquee fat ad contract NBA playas at all. Win or lose that makes me a fan. Of course, I'll take the win. Excuse me now, I've got a victory parade to watch.
Well said. The Spurs have always been more subdued and less flashy than most NBA teams. Their style has been "we try hard on the court" rather than "we are the baddest." Apparently Tim Duncan really is a Nice Guy, and so is Manu. And Tony. And so on...

What I think is really interesting is that the Pistons have gotten a lot more like the Spurs than when I lived in the Detroit area. Instead of being "we bad" and overly aggressive, they've taken up the major defense-oh, and their players have been a lot less flamboyant with their money, too. Kind of like the Spurs. Nice guys that a lot of people look up to-in more ways than one.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
MallyMal
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Jun 25, 2005, 08:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by Apple Pro Underwear
I would say I am currently friends with about 5 black people. I was invited to a predominantly black birthday party for my co-worker, Katrina, yesterday but did not go because of a doctor's appointment.
Lets assume that these black people aren't what you consider show offs and ghetto. Then how in same the breath can you say that blacks need to try to be repectable? Aren't they living examples of those qualities?

Originally Posted by Apple Pro Underwear
You're asking me if the black sterotype is real. IT IS REAL and blacks feed into it.

I can personally attest that Chow Yun Fat, William Hung and Jet Li set a bad tone for asians because of their mangled english. this feeds into the "ching-chong" asian stereo type. I don't like it, so i make sure to speak my english as clear as possible. I do my part to fight this.
No, some blacks feed into it. I wasn't asking if the stereotypes were real. I know they are real. I asked why are you defining a whole race by the show offs and the ones that you find to be ghetto. You implied in your original post that these folks somehow represent black people simply because they are famous. This is why I said you are star struck. The black community did not appoint these folks to represent them. You and others make that association simply because the show offs are black and so are the people in the black community.

Originally Posted by Apple Pro Underwear
A person goes to a job interview properly dressed because they wanted to be viewed as professional. I believe that in society, a person dress as they want to be perceived. I think of myself as "normal" so I wear clothes that fit.

The "Hip Hop style" can be interpreted in many ways. I stated that Jay-Z and Usher show a balance of Hip Hop with a little bit of restraint, achieving creative fashion without going too far.

Some Hip Hop is associated with violence. Especially during when Hip Hop first became super popular in the late 80s (NWA, Ice T, and etc). So some people associate Hip Hop fashion with violence. So is this how any body in society would want to appear? A style of clothing that is loosely related to violence? (once again, i will state... big shirt and large jeans is not that bad. big shirt, large jeans, du-rag, 3 live strong bracelets as well as the black ones that say true playa on it, large watch that hangs off their wrists like a bracelet, and a towel is what I think is over the top)
What's normal? Normal is subjective. And once again I ask why are Jay-z and Usher respectable? Respectabilty comes from the way a person behaves not from their clothes. I believe Gotti wore a lot suits. So, by your logic Gotti is respectable.


Originally Posted by Apple Pro Underwear
It has everything to do with it! I'm a minority too. We are trying to fight stereotypes together. When a person adds fire to the fuel... How does that help fight stereotyping?
No, we not fighting stereotypes together because you still stereotyping. You can help fight stereotyping by not stereotyping like you are doing now.


Originally Posted by Apple Pro Underwear
The history of black people in america has not always been great. Your people have done a lot to reverse the situation and I think racism, stereotyping and prejudice get better every year. If you wanted to speed up this process by decades... IMO, you should conform your outward appearance to more acceptable standards. It's one of the easiest things to do to appear more friendly that doesn't involve much but it's absolutely ignored.
No, me and a lot of other black people aren't going comform simply to make others happy. I'm not going to bow down and kiss ass simply because some people can't see passed my baggy pants and my afro. That is their issue. They made that judgement by association.
( Last edited by MallyMal; Jun 25, 2005 at 08:15 PM. )
     
MallyMal
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Jun 25, 2005, 08:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by Apple Pro Underwear
Hey Mally Mal,

Read the above post.

You think people don't make basic judgements? Borderline stereotyping on appearance and first impressions? Think again because some of us are thinking that is the acceptable thing to do.
I never said that people don't make basic judgements. I said that the people mention don't define a race and that clothes do not define who a person is. Just because someone makes a judgement doesn't make them correct. And just because someone makes a judgement doesn't mean that others are going to bow to them to make them feel comfortable.
     
MallyMal
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Jun 25, 2005, 08:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter
From Wikipedia:What I call "gangsta" is dress and behavior that emulates or personifies the street-thug, violent, drug-oriented subculture portrayed in "gangsta rap."

It seems that every such record is a litany of anti-female, anti-order, pro-drug addiction, pro-murder as a means to settle any arguement, "more bling!" more "I'm oppressed, so I'm going to go kill somebody and then get high" laced with profanity and often so based on local jargon-often local to as small an area as a few blocks in a neighborhood-that nobody from outside that area can understand anything but the profanity.

I'm not at all against rap-any well thought out and creatively written poetry is worth listening to. I'm against the use of profanity for its own sake, and the focus on self-destructive, family-destructive, culture-destructive nhilistic sentiment that so many young people have apparently embraced as an ideal. Work hard and learn a lot to succeed? Why, when you can murder someone, steal his drug distribution territory, and make lots of money? Until someone kills you and takes over himself.

A street thug is just that, too much muscle without enough brain to be productive, and kept that way by older thugs who have managed to survive by killing someone else first.

Yes, I have opinions on this. I've seen how African American communities can tear themselves apart, and I've seen how they can build themselves out of poverty and the grip of crime. I don't see any dishonor in using the system to beat the system.
What I was getting at is that there really isn't a set gangsta fashion. It changes from region to region. You said that too many sports people try to look too gangsta. What's too gangsta? Are braids gangsta? Well, that can't be because blacks have braided their hair for ages. Are afros gangsta? No that's how a black person's hair grows if they do not cut it. Are baggy jeans? No, because that was fashion statement unassociated with gangs. Now, if they were throwing gang signs and flagging I'd agree with you.
     
ghporter
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Jun 25, 2005, 09:33 PM
 
Mal, I consider a combination of a number of the styles you mentioned, particularly when done to extreme, and the wear of excessive jewelry (often WAY over the top), combined by a set of behaviors that mimic those described in "gangsta rap" (including the whole gang sign issue) to be "too gangsta." I've worn baggy pants in my time. And an afro for a while. A few of my friends are hip enough to wear hip hop styles that are not thug oriented. It's not about style, it's about mimicing a tremendously destructive attitude and lifestyle.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
Apple Pro Underwear
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Jun 26, 2005, 12:01 AM
 
Mally Mal,

We agree to disagree. No matter which way you put it, the more "gansta" you look. the more I am afraid of you (and most of the NYC population). That's setting a bad example for your entire community.

Also, don't put words into my posts that aren't true. If you read my posts, it's clear that i am not generalizing all black people. I am speaking specifically about black people who dress over the top.

IMO, black people are making gains each year in terms of race relations but that could be multiplied if you all ditched the "hardcore gansta" life. But you won't because it's important to you all. Why is that? I don't know.
     
Apple Pro Underwear
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Jun 26, 2005, 12:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by toneloco28
I was debating whether or not i was going to respond to this thread, seeing as how so many people like to make things so "black and white", pardon the pun. Alot of black people do not come from money and have never experienced what it is to have real money. Person's wish to assume that once one begins to make alot of cash, naturally they would beget qualities of a person having money all their life. Im sure few here have experienced having to literally wonder where your next meal is coming from, so it's all perspective. I'm a black man and honestly speaking am sometimes upset and embarrassed by "some" in my cultures overt show of excess. I also am smart enough to realize that has more to do with feelings of inferiority, rather than just blind ignorance. They want to show that they-we can also attain certain levels of "financial" success, and feel the need to display it because they have been deprived of it for so long. Actions are preceded by experiences and more often than not, this is our first taste of real money. Yes it may appear foolish, and totally unnecessary to many of you, yet i can assure you it is not as cut and dry as your making it.......

Fyi...I attended a predominantly Black University, and the majority of person's there shared similar views. I am the norm...not the exception!

Just imho
just so you all know. i read this man's post. and i learned from it.

i am a minority too and i sympathize to a degree.
     
Kevin
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Jun 26, 2005, 10:33 AM
 
Yes toneloco28 seems to be on the mark here.

Why? Because it makes sense.
     
nredman
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Jun 26, 2005, 10:47 AM
 
right on

"I'm for anything that gets you through the night, be it prayer, tranquilizers, or a bottle of Jack Daniel's."
     
Eug Wanker
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Jun 26, 2005, 12:00 PM
 
I saw several of these in Bloomingdale's in NY:



I must admit, the three groups that popped into my mind as possible purchasers were rich middle-aged women, spoiled teen Hiltonesque types, and NBA player/Gangsta-rap wannabes.

I also am smart enough to realize that has more to do with feelings of inferiority, rather than just blind ignorance.
Well, in nouveau riche Asian culture, such showy excess is both, often more the latter than the former. Plus sometimes a healthy dose of obnoxiousness, too.
( Last edited by Eug Wanker; Jun 26, 2005 at 12:15 PM. )
     
   
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