[TheIceMan]

I'd like some advice/tips regarding what I should do. I created a website using iWeb but I want more flexibility and options. Here's the thing, I want to create a website, similar to or very much like this template. It's a Joomla! template.

I do not know GoLive or Dreamweaver or PHP, MySQL or any of those things. Sad I know.

Question: How do I set a website up and easily maintain it without html/coding knowledge?

Would something like Joomla! be what I need or do I need something else like WordPress? I'd like to stay away from iWeb, Sandvox, and RapidWeaver.

How easy is it to create a website using Joomla?
Joomla is a powerful content management tool, but despite its numerous features and large scope, it is surprisingly easy to use. Once you get the hang of the basics, you will find it a breeze to keep your site content up-to-date. As a general guide, if you can use the basic features of a word processor, you should have no trouble using Joomla.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. (Sorry mods, wasn't sure where to put this so I figure the Lounge to get an overall consensus )

[wdlove]

I wish you all the best with your project. I think it is great idea. It seems that we have a similar knowldege base, In my case finding friends that you can trust to help is the key.

[turtle777]

Wordpress or Joomla.
Both gives you flexibility to customize to your own desires.

I've switched my website to Wordpress. Thought about Joomla, but found Wordpress good enough for my purpose.

-t

[typoon]

You could use RapidWeaver to do something similar. Does it work on Mac? RpaidWeaver is pretty customizable. Once you've exported the page you can do what you want with the HTML. You could also create the Template you need. The forums for RapidWeaver are great. I'm sure somone there could help you with what you need from it.

WordPress and Joomla work well too. Just use them all and see what would work best for you. You could also use NVU as well.

[TheIceMan]

Joomla seems very interesting - that is, once set up it's (suppose to be) easy to manage. An extra note is that I like the "template" design of Joomla to the others.

[TheIceMan]

typoon: Regarding RapidWeaver, I tried it but it just didn't seem to "look good." And since I don't have html knowledge, I couldn't tweak it. Not to get into a iWeb vs. RapidWeaver debate, but websites designed using iWeb look a LOT better (more polished) than those done using RapidWeaver. Just my opinion of course, but from using both, iWeb was better.

But now I'm looking to move ahead with some new, cooler things. Anyone else with Joomla experience? Please share. I would love to hear more about it.

[Super Mario]

I can make that Joomla template in 30 mins with Text Wrangler using plain CSS and XHTML and I have only been learning for two months now. I don't like those WYSIWYG apps like Rapid Weaver and iWeb. Dreamweaver I can't afford, Photoshop I have had for a long time and Text Wrangler and Textedit are free. It's really easy to make a website if you put your mind to it and costs very little.

Start with paper, sketching stuff out, make a comp in Photoshop, create the CSS rules and properties for the layout, create XHTML, insert images made in Photoshop ..... sweet. No bulky code from WYSIWYG apps. All clean and compliant.

I don't like CMS. I make a template file and fill it out when I have to make a new article. I save it to a new .html file, send it with any images to the Admin: bingo, he puts it online with a link and excerpt in the front page. We love manual work. Automation is for the lazy and sucks.

[gethigh]

If you want something quick and dirty then just use Mozilla's Composer. Easy to learn and use albeit a little slow, bloated and bulky as are any of Mozilla's components (hence the reason we have Firefox et. al).

I forgot, but I think it can do CSS now, but if not then u can just add it onto the HTML that composer generates if that's a big deal to you.

[davesimondotcom]

Self-serving comment to follow:

Hire a professional web designer!

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by davesimondotcom

Self-serving comment to follow:

Hire a professional web designer!

Or hire Dave

[TheIceMan]

After contacting a fellow MacNN member named reemas, I think I'm going to give Joomla a try. It seems to be just what I'm looking for. Anyone else here with a Joomla-created website? If so, can I see what it looks like? Thanks.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Super Mario

I can make that Joomla template in 30 mins with Text Wrangler using plain CSS and XHTML and I have only been learning for two months now. I don't like those WYSIWYG apps like Rapid Weaver and iWeb. Dreamweaver I can't afford, Photoshop I have had for a long time and Text Wrangler and Textedit are free. It's really easy to make a website if you put your mind to it and costs very little.

Start with paper, sketching stuff out, make a comp in Photoshop, create the CSS rules and properties for the layout, create XHTML, insert images made in Photoshop ..... sweet. No bulky code from WYSIWYG apps. All clean and compliant.

I don't like CMS. I make a template file and fill it out when I have to make a new article. I save it to a new .html file, send it with any images to the Admin: bingo, he puts it online with a link and excerpt in the front page. We love manual work. Automation is for the lazy and sucks.

So use something like WordPress which also has a code view. It's MUCH faster to log into a site and work there than it is to teach somebody how to connect via SFTP, how to upload files, deal with the difference in Windows/Mac/Unix line feeds, blah blah blah.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by TheIceMan

Joomla seems very interesting - that is, once set up it's (suppose to be) easy to manage. An extra note is that I like the "template" design of Joomla to the others.

WordPress is extremely template-oriented too. You can create as many templates as you like to drive WordPress authored pages.

[Super Mario]

Originally Posted by besson3c

So use something like WordPress which also has a code view. It's MUCH faster to log into a site and work there than it is to teach somebody how to connect via SFTP, how to upload files, deal with the difference in Windows/Mac/Unix line feeds, blah blah blah.

I do like Wordpress but it is geared almost totally for blogging which I have no plans for. I'm not a great fan of comments left by readers at the end of articles because we have forums for that where we cover everything about everything.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Super Mario

I do like Wordpress but it is geared almost totally for blogging which I have no plans for. I'm not a great fan of comments left by readers at the end of articles because we have forums for that where we cover everything about everything.

Have you used 2.x? 2.x allows you to design static pages. It's very slick. It includes the easiest-to-use and best designed web-based WYSIWYG set of tools I've seen for both blog posts and static pages. It also has the ability to turn off the visual editor so that you can use code view.

Plus, there are a ton of plug-ins available to change how WP works.

[wataru]

Originally Posted by gethigh

If you want something quick and dirty then just use Mozilla's Composer. Easy to learn and use albeit a little slow, bloated and bulky as are any of Mozilla's components (hence the reason we have Firefox et. al).

I forgot, but I think it can do CSS now, but if not then u can just add it onto the HTML that composer generates if that's a big deal to you.

Nvu is the standalone breakoff of Mozilla Composer. I'd prefer this to wrangling with the whole Seamonkey suite.

If you want to learn how to properly make websites, learn XHTML and CSS. Then move on to PHP and whatnot. WYSIWYG editors will never give you the flexibility and clean code that writing by hand will.

[Spliffdaddy]

FrontPage.

At least 95% of internet users will be able to view it properly.

Else code it yourself and scatch your head wondering why it doesn't work in IE.

All the other suggestions seem to require him to code in HTML - and that isn't what he asked.

[villalobos]

[Have you looked into spip. Uses CSS and makes compliant code. Supposedly fairly easy to use, and very flexible.

[Super Mario]

Originally Posted by besson3c

Have you used 2.x? 2.x allows you to design static pages. It's very slick. It includes the easiest-to-use and best designed web-based WYSIWYG set of tools I've seen for both blog posts and static pages. It also has the ability to turn off the visual editor so that you can use code view.

Plus, there are a ton of plug-ins available to change how WP works.

I have to stick to mine and Wataru's position of hand written xhtml and css. I tried Jamba, Moomla, phpcms, Xooms, iWeb, Rapidweaver, that other one by Karelia, Wordpress, Movable Type.....none of them were as fun or clean as learning and writing clean code in Text Wrangler. The reward of seeing xhtml validator site say there are no errors in the code gives me a rush because I did it all myself and it is so damn easy if you plan first on paper and make a comp

[Spliffdaddy]

He said he doesn't want to manually code his website. I don't blame him.

[besson3c]

I agree that hand-coding is the way to go if you want to do a good job. I don't know any serious web developer that uses a WYSIWYG tool, for good reason. There are a number of advantages to standards compliant "semantic web" code, one reason being that your efforts will be rewarded in Google search results.

I like TextWrangler/BBEdit, and NVU looks pretty good too.

My second choice would be to work with a template that somebody else coded - be it through iWeb, Rapidweaver, whatever...

Do NOT use a crappy tool like Frontpage.

[Super Mario]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

He said he doesn't want to manually code his website. I don't blame him.

By the time he learns how to use a CMS someone else in the same position could learn enough xhtml and css to be already running a site with a header, footer, two or three columns and all easy to update. Those CMS sites like Joomla make it sound much easier than it is.

[Spliffdaddy]

You may have a point.

There is a learning curve associated with WYSIWYG, as well. I haven't dealt with web creation in several years. Perhaps there are applications that allow for simple 'real' web design without using a WYSIWYG format.

[TheIceMan]

Super Mario and Spliffdaddy: You both bring up good points. But like Spliff said, I'm not interested in manually coding (at this time) my website. I'm not knowledgeable in coding and am not interested in learning it at this time. That is why Joomla sounded so interesting. I'll report back on how everything went after I finish transitioning my iWeb site to the new Joomla-made site.

While it's true that learning coding would be great, I'm opting to use something already made (that I like) which hopefully would simplify things for me. Hopefully. We'll see.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

FrontPage.

You're such a tool !

-t

[TheIceMan]

[Update:] Well, 5 days after first posting a question asking for feedback, I jumped right into Joomla and completely transformed my old website (which was "brand new" a month ago). I am so excited and proud to share my new site with the MacNN community.

Despite some fumbling around trying to figure this module and that content out (the CMS way of life), I think I've managed to put together something rather nice.

I still need to add the photo gallery and find some way to redo or create a nicer "stevenguyenonline" banner. Problem is I don't know how and the one I made was from using OmniGraffle!

[Super Mario]

Originally Posted by TheIceMan

[Update:] Well, 5 days after first posting a question asking for feedback, I jumped right into Joomla and completely transformed my old website (which was "brand new" a month ago). I am so excited and proud to share my new site with the MacNN community.

Looks clean, very impersonal and corporate though which is what you get with most CMS tools. Doesn't validate either (the validator does say stupid things sometimes)

http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=ht...nonline.com%2F

[besson3c]

Nice start Steve!

You might want to look at using Apache's mod_rewrite to automatically rewrite your URLs into something more human friendly. For instance:

http://www.stevenguyenonline.com/site_information

rather than:

http://www.stevenguyenonline.com/ind...d=15&Itemid=31

The former will produce far more success with Google indexing your site.

[Obi Wan's Ghost]

Unfortunately he is using a Content Management System that does that. I hear there are options for search engine friendly URLs.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Obi Wan's Ghost

Unfortunately he is using a Content Management System that does that. I hear there are options for search engine friendly URLs.

Yes, I know. That's what mod_rewrite is for

[Sarc]

Some time ago I tried several CMS made in PHP/MySQL.
Finally I chose Drupal, once I understood it, I made full production level site in a few days,

[TheIceMan]

Thanks for the feedback guys. The "mod_rewrite" thing looks very complicated (for me). Is there an easier way to do this? For example this tutorial here.

[TheIceMan]

Obi Wan and besson3c: Can you guys direct me to an easier to redo my URLs to make it more search engine friendly, please? I'm not making excuses, but the reason I chose Joomla was because I didn't know how to code. The "mod rewrite" seems very complicated for me coming from a background of no coding experience.

Overall, I'm very happy with the result of the layout and content, but the long URLs are insane.

[production_coordinator]

I chose wordpress... I had it up in going in about 15 minutes. I would say the user base is fantastic.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by TheIceMan

Obi Wan and besson3c: Can you guys direct me to an easier to redo my URLs to make it more search engine friendly, please? I'm not making excuses, but the reason I chose Joomla was because I didn't know how to code. The "mod rewrite" seems very complicated for me coming from a background of no coding experience.

Overall, I'm very happy with the result of the layout and content, but the long URLs are insane.

mod_rewrite is intimidating because it is so powerful. However, it isn't that complicated for simple usage.

Really, all you need to do is write these rewrite rules in your Apache configuration file on the server, or in an .htaccess file located in your website "document root" (I prefer the latter, as this doesn't require restarting the webserver everytime I make a change). If you do the latter, you'll need to make sure that Apache is configured properly to recognize these .htaccess files (and to have rewriting enabled). See me if you have any questions about this.

Once you have everything configured properly, the rewrite rule can be as simple as this:

<IfModule mod_rewrite.c>
RewriteEngine On
RewriteRule ^path/relative/to/home$ /target/path
</IfModule>


If you have the rewrite engine set to be on in your Apache configuration file, the RewriteEngine On command will be ignored, in this case this would be redundant. The meat of this syntax is the RewriteRule command...

the ^ means "start pattern match", the $ is the end. The first path is the path that you'd like to use. It doesn't even have to exist, you can make something up. The second path is the actual path where this page actually exists in reality. This should be the URLs you are currently using.

The first path needs to be relative to your DocumentRoot, so no leading slash. The second path needs to be the absolute path relative to the DocumentRoot, or everything following the domain name in your URL. You'll need to enter several of these commands, one per line, to accommodate all of the URL rewriting necessary for your site.

Does this help?

[wataru]

See? Your simple solution has gotten difficult already. You can't escape learning about these things; you might as well bite the bullet and properly learn XHTML and CSS.

[TheIceMan]

wataru: I know. That's always the case. I try to take a shortcut and end up lost and taking a lot longer than if I had just taken the long way at the beginning. That said, I am happy with Joomla, even with some of its quirks. There was no way I would have been able to set up a website in 5 days (with my no coding knowledge) that looks like what I have now without the aid of something like Joomla.

besson3c: Thanks for the explanation. Forgive me, but I don't understand anything you suggested. I think it's like trying to explain calculus to a 6 year old (I'm that kid). Heck, even in college, calculus was too hard. So I'll just stick with what I have now, long URLs and all.

* For anyone else who can help, can someone please help me design a new logo to replace this? You can see the "akompany" logo here.




I'm trying to design another logo with "stevenguyenonline" to replace the word "akompany". I think that background is nice and would like to keep it and replace it instead with "stevenguyenonline." You can see that I did a really poor job creating my own.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by wataru

See? Your simple solution has gotten difficult already. You can't escape learning about these things; you might as well bite the bullet and properly learn XHTML and CSS.

Or do exactly what he did using WordPress, which includes the ability to automatically format URLs via mod_rewrite.

[Super Mario]

Originally Posted by TheIceMan

I'm trying to design another logo with "stevenguyenonline" to replace the word "akompany". I think that background is nice and would like to keep it and replace it instead with "stevenguyenonline." You can see that I did a really poor job creating my own.

Just the background or you want to use the same font as them for your logo? Don't know what font they used. Anyway

Background:



You can superimpose your old logo on it, example:

[TheIceMan]

I was thinking of keeping the same background and the same or similar font as them.
I don't like my logo design (which I made in OmniGraffle).

[TheIceMan]

Can someone help me design a logo, 250 x 70, using the background posted by Super Mario. Or if you're creative and generous, please feel free to design something different that would match the look of my site with stevenguyenonline on it. Thanks.

[maxhedrum]

Originally Posted by TheIceMan

[Update:] Well, 5 days after first posting a question asking for feedback, I jumped right into Joomla and completely transformed my old website (which was "brand new" a month ago). I am so excited and proud to share my new site with the MacNN community.

Despite some fumbling around trying to figure this module and that content out (the CMS way of life), I think I've managed to put together something rather nice.

I still need to add the photo gallery and find some way to redo or create a nicer "stevenguyenonline" banner. Problem is I don't know how and the one I made was from using OmniGraffle!

Steve -

Just thought you'd like a heads-up.

I just checked out your site and experienced what may be a major problem. After the page finished loading I emmediately got the spinning beach ball and everything locked up. Nothing functioned but disconnect for the modem. However, when I clicked anywhere on the page, the cursor returned and the video of the raindrops on the window started playing. Going off the page returned it to the previous behavior. Couldn't even get escape to work. It almost looked like a hard restart would be necessary.

I finally disconnected the modem and hit the close button a bunch of times, when I could get the cursor back, 'till the page finally went away. All seems fine now.

I'd like to thank everyone here for a very informative and civil thread. It's given me much food for thought, as I'm in the same boat as well.

Cheers

David

G4/Dual 500, 1.3gigRAM, OS10.4.3, Mozilla 1.7.12, slugline

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by maxhedrum

Steve -

Just thought you'd like a heads-up.

I just checked out your site and experienced what may be a major problem. After the page finished loading I emmediately got the spinning beach ball and everything locked up. Nothing functioned but disconnect for the modem. However, when I clicked anywhere on the page, the cursor returned and the video of the raindrops on the window started playing. Going off the page returned it to the previous behavior. Couldn't even get escape to work. It almost looked like a hard restart would be necessary.

I finally disconnected the modem and hit the close button a bunch of times, when I could get the cursor back, 'till the page finally went away. All seems fine now.

I'd like to thank everyone here for a very informative and civil thread. It's given me much food for thought, as I'm in the same boat as well.

Cheers

David

G4/Dual 500, 1.3gigRAM, OS10.4.3, Mozilla 1.7.12, slugline

Hi David,

While a webpage can cause a web browser to lock up, it shouldn't disrupt your internet service at all. Unless the lockup can be reproduced in the web browser reliably, I'd assume that this was a one-time random web browser crap out, and the fact that it happened with his site purely coincidental.

[maxhedrum]

Originally Posted by besson3c

Hi David,

While a webpage can cause a web browser to lock up, it shouldn't disrupt your internet service at all. Unless the lockup can be reproduced in the web browser reliably, I'd assume that this was a one-time random web browser crap out, and the fact that it happened with his site purely coincidental.

Actually, it didn't disconnect the modem. The modem access tool was the only thing that was working on the desktop. The browser was completely locked up, as well as everything else other than the modem tool.

I'm getting ready to shut down for awhile, so will see if it happens again.

[maxhedrum]

It gets even wierder.

I just tried it again with the same result, except this time I thought I'd let the ball spin awhile to see if it was just loading something and would settle down.

I left the room for a few minutes and when I came back, the page was gone! Gotta run some errands, but will try again later, and this time I'll sit and watch to see if it disapears in a puff of smoke.

[Super Mario]

Originally Posted by TheIceMan

Can someone help me design a logo, 250 x 70, using the background posted by Super Mario. Or if you're creative and generous, please feel free to design something different that would match the look of my site with stevenguyenonline on it. Thanks.

I'll send you the email address of the guy who is doing the graphics for a site I am writing articles at. He's a super professional. Will do any graphics you want in exchange for a credit and link to his site.

[typoon]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

FrontPage.

At least 95% of internet users will be able to view it properly.

Else code it yourself and scatch your head wondering why it doesn't work in IE.

All the other suggestions seem to require him to code in HTML - and that isn't what he asked.

God no. Any self respecting Web designer would avoid Front page like the plague. Many of the other webdesign apps create pages that work fine in IE. Front Page on the other hand doesn't always play nice with other browsers and last time I checked they stopped developing IE for Mac. If you want to be fully compatible stay away from Frontpage. They also Don't make it for the Mac.

[maxhedrum]

Fitst off, I want to appologize for over-reacting. Will try to control that.

I did try it again with the same result. Afterwards I did my periodic browser clean out and also permissions repair, and now everything seems to be fine.

Any ideas as to what may have caused this behavior? (The browser, not mine) Just a one time hiccup?

Thanks

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by typoon

God no. Any self respecting Web designer would avoid Front page like the plague. Many of the other webdesign apps create pages that work fine in IE. Front Page on the other hand doesn't always play nice with other browsers and last time I checked they stopped developing IE for Mac. If you want to be fully compatible stay away from Frontpage. They also Don't make it for the Mac.

Anyone that endorses Frontpage as a web design tool loses all credibility, as far as I'm concerned. The only thing that is worse is Word's HTML export option

[Obi Wan's Ghost]

Originally Posted by besson3c

Anyone that endorses Frontpage as a web design tool loses all credibility, as far as I'm concerned. The only thing that is worse is Word's HTML export option

Pages has the worst html export