Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

foobar · May 4, 2006, 08:59 PM

Hi all.. Just trying to figure out if there's any great reason to buy direct from Apple (store or online) vs. getting one from someplace like MacMall or equivalent (Amazon,etc).. I've read that some people that bought direct from Apple have been able to swap dead or dying ones if you visit your local Apple Store but that isn't the case for ones bought from other retailers.. Is this true and is there any great reason why I should fork up the extra $100-$150 or so to get it at my local Apple Store/online?

If I buy from a place such as MacMall, I gather if I had any problems it would need to be sent back to Apple via snailmail for repair? Just curious about all of this.. Thanks!

phantomo · May 4, 2006, 09:27 PM

Is this PowerBook & MacBook Pro related?

foobar · May 4, 2006, 09:34 PM

Yup-- MBP.. In light of some people having issues and needing to have them repaired/replaced, I thought I'd ping people on this issue.. If I was getting a Powerbook or ibook, I wouldn't bother asking this since they've been debugged already..

Zeeb · May 4, 2006, 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by osx-addict

Hi all.. Just trying to figure out if there's any great reason to buy direct from Apple (store or online) vs. getting one from someplace like MacMall or equivalent (Amazon,etc).. I've read that some people that bought direct from Apple have been able to swap dead or dying ones if you visit your local Apple Store but that isn't the case for ones bought from other retailers.. Is this true and is there any great reason why I should fork up the extra $100-$150 or so to get it at my local Apple Store/online?

If I buy from a place such as MacMall, I gather if I had any problems it would need to be sent back to Apple via snailmail for repair? Just curious about all of this.. Thanks!

I like to get mine from the Apple store(not online). I had an issue with a powerbook I got there and they simply exchanged it for a new one with no problem. I have a friend who bought an ipod from a reseller and although it was in warranty they refused to even look at it.

To be fair, some resellers will swap it out just as easily and may have more generous policies than apple. Wherever you get it, I feel a lot better getting it at a brick and mortar store because you have a place to take the computer back to and meet someone face to face. Is it worth $150? I would say if you are close to the place you're gonna get it from perhaps. If you're a 5 hour drive away from the nearest store get it for the discount online.

TheAlbinoBowler · May 4, 2006, 11:38 PM

yeah, i just bought an MBP from Amazon cause they didn't charge tax and have a $150 rebate...I had some problems with the keyboard backlight and they couldn't fix it at the apple store, so I just sent it back to Amazon today (they sent UPS and paid for the return) but now I probably won't receive the replacement till monday. The guy at the apple store said if I would have bought it there, they would have just given me a new one. So, I saved a few hundred bucks from Amazon, but I'll be without it for a few days now.

masugu · May 5, 2006, 12:37 AM

Yup....that is the trade off of buying online...save a few bucks on tax - but a pain in the booty if you need to return / repair. Nothing like standing in front of hte schmo who sold you the box!!

Macpilot · May 5, 2006, 02:05 AM

Don't forget that the Apple Store also offers free data transfer from your old PC or Mac to your new Mac.

GrimStranger · May 5, 2006, 02:17 AM

I got mine from Amazon. Like my 5G iPod, it acted up after a short while. But the beauty of buying from them is they overnight you a replacement if the unit has problems out of the box. Plus with no tax and the rebate, it's a no brainer.

pete · May 5, 2006, 10:18 AM

Amazon is the way to go in my opinion. They have excellent prices, charge no tax and have the best return policy of any online store. With the rebate, no taxes and low cost shipping, the savings are quit substantial. But that's not why I purchase expensive things from them. Buying a new apple product these days is a little bit of a gamble. It can be a small or big problem and it's nice to know that no matter what I can return it for a refund or replacement. Apple is much more restrictive with their return policies. Take the macbook as an example. Many of them have heat problems but because Apple doesn't acknowledge it as a problem they are unlikely to allow a return for a full refund. Even if they do, it will be on a case by case basis and not reliable. Amazon won't ask any questions if you tell them that it is defective and excessively hot.

I've bough numerous apple products from amazon and many of them have had issues out of the box - an ipod nano with audio crackling, a cinema display that I noticed had a pink hue two months after I bought it (amazon exchanged it because there was a xmas extended 3-month return policy in effect), two powerbooks last year with various issues and finally a macbook pro last week. I don't want to send in a brand new product for repair - it's like buying a used product and then I might as well do just that and save myself some money and hassle.

Since they overnight your replacement, it's actually very fast. You'll be without your computer for max one day and they pay for shipping if it was defective. You send them the return tracking number and they immediately send out the replacement.

amazing · May 5, 2006, 11:49 AM

Strategies for getting the "best total price" change when you're talking about buying a first generation Apple product. Anyone who buys a first gen Apple is, in essence, a beta tester--so you want to get the best return and refund policy that you can, regardless of price, because you're quite likely to need it.

That said, early adopters are generally risk takers--so their strategies are different.

MovieCutter · May 5, 2006, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by amazing

Strategies for getting the "best total price" change when you're talking about buying a first generation Apple product. Anyone who buys a first gen Apple is, in essence, a beta tester--so you want to get the best return and refund policy that you can, regardless of price, because you're quite likely to need it.

That said, early adopters are generally risk takers--so their strategies are different.

mduell · May 5, 2006, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by amazing

Anyone who buys a first gen Apple is, in essence, a beta tester--so you want to get the best return and refund policy that you can, regardless of price, because you're quite likely to need it.

The first gen Apple products don't have any more problems than the later revisions.

dialo · May 5, 2006, 12:44 PM

obviously they do and have, although that's certainly not to say that later revisions are problem free.

maxhedrum · May 5, 2006, 04:14 PM

Here's my saga with the Apple Store and a two week old MBP.

As I was purchasing it through a lease, it seemed the AS was best option. I also got Apple Care and Pro Care, as well as a bunch of accessories, while I was at it. At the begining of the process I was informed that the final checkout would take 20 minutes "max". Having to be at my job site at 11:00, I showed up at the store when they opened at 10:00 to pick up the unit, figuring I could have one of the so-called geniuses check out the thing with me before leaving. At 11:30, the sale was completed and the bags were shoved at me and off I went, a half hour late. Durring the hour and a half wait, I tried several time to have the unit inspected, only to be told that the box could not be cracked open 'till after payment.

It wasn't untill later that evening that I could finally check it out. The first thing I noticed was the warped lid. You can see-saw the thing with a finger at each corner. Then I noticed that the bottom cover and the top cover were malformed enough that there were metal edges sticking out past the plastic frame in places and pushed in in others. Overall, the assembly is just plain sloppy. There was also a blob of something on the lid with indications of an attempt to clean it off. This was probably from when they installed the other RAM. As a repair tech, this all left me fairly disgusted. And I have never made a purchase where I could not inspect what I was buying beforehand.

So back to the store the next morning, where I was told that it was "only cosmetic" and "within spec", so it would cost me an additional 10%($300) to try a new one. Only24 hours, and I hadn't even fired it up yet! There was also an insinuation that this was my doing and I should have inspected it before leaving with it. Even then, the 10% restocking would apply. Screw that.

In the first week of just installing some apps and downloading new versions of others and the latest drivers for my peripherals, as well a general web use, it ran very hot. Not warm, hot, as in frying eggs hot. Don't know how many here are familliar with the phenolic odor of cooking circuit boards is like, but got a few whiffs after an hour or so of use. I also never heard the fans.

Back to the store... where I was informed it was "within spec". A phone call to apple is in order to find out if that's engineering, manufacturing, or repair "spec". If they are applying repair specs to a new product, that's BS. It's like buying a new $50k car and when you pick it up the doors don't fit right, the hood is sprung, and it overheats. Then being told it's "just cosmetic and within spec". Sure, it's a nice car, but WTF?

In retrospect, next ime I'll use an outside leasing agency and buy from Amazon so I can just bounce the damn things 'till one sticks. Dealing with the 'Clerks' attitude of the spotty dweebs in the black t-shirts hasn't helped things either. Most of them seem to only have a rudimentary knowledge of the product and basically just parrot the party line. Unfortunately(or fortunately) I'm old enough to remember when manufacturers produced the highest quality product possible and customer satisfaction was more than just a marketing slogan. Of course that was when the customer was king, and not the stockholder.

Don't get me wrong, I've been using macs since '92 and my first new one was a leased Yosemite 300, followed by a G4/400 gigether. They have consistantly released some of the most beautifully designed hardware in the marketplace coupled with cutting edge engineering. However... this is moot when you throw third world manufacturing at it. With the move to China, QC needs to be even more dilligent.

In the meantime, I hope they can resolve these issues so that I can realize the full potential of this machine. I will be hammering on apple some more regarding all this. It floors me as to how many people just roll over and accept it. The only way apple will change things is if their feet are held to the fire.

jhonizzle · May 5, 2006, 04:46 PM

maxhemdrum, thats an awful experience at an Apple retail store, i bought from them on-line, and had no problems, the first MBP i had was sent back due to the warped lid, and a few more minor things. i sent a letter one night to Apple.com and the next morning i had a pre-payed Fed-Ex stamp in my e-mail. (a lot of dashes) anyway i had no restocking fee, and get my new MBP back in 4 days, i had a great experience with apple.com. as for the retail store, i don't have much experience with returning things with them but as far as buying from them, i got my sister an iBook, and had no problems with the sale's people other than the guy trying to make me "wait a month for the new intel iBooks" to come out. after him telling me that 3 times i told him the powerPC version would be fine thank you, and we were out the door. so i have to say they haven't done me any wront other than trying to be helpful.

Yakov · May 5, 2006, 06:32 PM

back to the OP --
i saw a web site that allows you to buy intel macs with boot camp and Win XP preinstalled, i think for something resembling the regular price... this is a service worth paying for.

as for me, outside of horror stories, most online and personal acquaintances recommend the mac store... i really hate shipping stuff around, it's a real hassle for me, and i can go in and show my student ID and get my stu discount very easily (which probably obliterates the Amazon no tax / rebate thing). plus i hate rebates I HATE THEM! i've sent in maybe three rebates in my life and never got the $$$ ever! bleah.

foobar · May 5, 2006, 08:24 PM

Thanks all for the great replies!! After considering the options, I'll skip the local Apple Store (in Manhattan Beach) and opt for either MacMall if they've got a good return policy (I'll probably drop by their retail store in Torrance (CA) over the weekend and pick their brains) or if that doesn't pan out I'll got for Amazon.. Too bad Costco doesn't sell them as their return policies are top-notch for most products..

Thanks again!

pete · May 5, 2006, 09:00 PM

Macmall does NOT have a great, no-hassle return policy and they have restocking fees, 15% if I remember correctly.

amazing · May 5, 2006, 09:12 PM

osx-addict: before you buy from MacMall, I suggest you go to macintouch.com and do a search on MacMall. Read the comments before you buy...

maxhedrum: you seem to have known about all the issues with the MBP before you went to the Apple store--so I'm surprised that you're surprised at what you got. The issues plaguing a significant number of the MBP don't magically go away simply because a few weeks have passed since people began talking about them. Early adopters have to reconcile themselves to dealing with the issues, no way around that. Yes, there're happy MBP owners out there, but from your expectations on fit and finish, along with the usual 1st gen issues, there was a very slim possibility that you'd be one of the happy customers. That's what I mean about having a buying strategy, based on a personal knowledge of expectations and early-model-risk comfort level. Meantime, you'll have a better chance of returning the MBP if you call the 800# and calmly and cooly keep talking to them, and insisting on talking to someone in the next tier of support. Perhaps you'll get a return for a another new MBP, but as to whether that one would be any better, it's early days yet.

maxhedrum · May 5, 2006, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by amazing

osx-addict: before you buy from MacMall, I suggest you go to macintouch.com and do a search on MacMall. Read the comments before you buy...

maxhedrum: you seem to have known about all the issues with the MBP before you went to the Apple store--so I'm surprised that you're surprised at what you got. The issues plaguing a significant number of the MBP don't magically go away simply because a few weeks have passed since people began talking about them. Early adopters have to reconcile themselves to dealing with the issues, no way around that. Yes, there're happy MBP owners out there, but from your expectations on fit and finish, along with the usual 1st gen issues, there was a very slim possibility that you'd be one of the happy customers. That's what I mean about having a buying strategy, based on a personal knowledge of expectations and early-model-risk comfort level. Meantime, you'll have a better chance of returning the MBP if you call the 800# and calmly and cooly keep talking to them, and insisting on talking to someone in the next tier of support. Perhaps you'll get a return for a another new MBP, but as to whether that one would be any better, it's early days yet.

amazing - Actually, that's precisely why I bought it at the store. I wanted to check it out before leaving with it. But due to either a false statement about the time involved, or the general incompetance of the people involved, I did not have the time to inspect the merchandise before walking out. As it's considered yours after purchase anyway and subject to a restocking fee if you reject it for mere "cosmetic" reasons, it actually makes no difference if purchased at their store. It never occured to me that this would be a policy concerning a $3000 item. I can go into a photo store and actually take images with $10000 worth of camera gear and reject the purchase if unsatisfied with the results.

As to the general crappyness of the way it was assembled, I see no relevance as to what generation it is. They've been cranking this design out for several years now. If anything, it should be the most refined version yet. Obviously the heat problem is not something that you would see at first blush. I'm curious as to whether the rest of the industry follows the "you paid for it it's yours" model in regards to a product that you can't inspect before purchase.

As an aside, I thought I'd run a bunch of stuff that brought the CPU usage up to an averaqe of about 90% and walked away for three hours. I checked on it after the first hour and it had gotten even hotter. Much to my surprise though, when I went back to it later the bloody thing was actually just warm, and the fans were spinning like crazy. It's been running cooler ever since. As I had changed nothing, I have no idea what happened. To give you an idea how hot it got, I had it sitting on a '30s steel top kitchen table and it was at about 4" away from the MBP before the surface was ambient temperature.

Now if the case could just heal itself.

amazing · May 6, 2006, 10:30 AM

I can't think of any major retailer that will let you cherry-pick laptops before you buy. The camera world may be different, in that opening boxes and breaking seals are normal, but you can't startup a laptop without extablishing a user account and password, at which point the laptop becomes a "used" laptop and can no longer be sold as new. The only safeguard is finding a store with a good return policy, and buying with a credit card that will back you up if you need to file a merchant complaint and force a refund.

The MBP design is new, in that it is thinner and slightly wider. New designs bring new fit and finish problems.

A newly activated Apple laptop gets hot at first partly because spotlight is indexing the HD. After that's done, things quiet down and it cools off.

The MBP models that were shown at MacWorld San Fran were prototypes, beta-models. No battery-life estimates, for heaven's sake! How else to explain that within a month, a new chip speed is announced? Does anyone believe that Jobs didn't know in January that Apple was negotiating with Intel for a new chip-speed and stable chip supply for the estimated sales demand? That's pretty cheeky, presenting a prototype with full knowledge that it isn't the finished product. Personally, I think it accounts for the somewhat lower key new laptop presentation during the keynote.

I also think it's pretty weird that we have MBP refurbs showing up so soon after shipping the first models. It's certainly a prime indication of having rushed a new model to market without ironing out all the bugs.

maxhedrum · May 6, 2006, 01:05 PM

All very valid points, however..

If I had been able to visually inspect it in the begining, it never would have reached the startup stage. Unfortunatly your excellent advice on place of purchase rules out the Apple Store.

And the difference in design is just a matter of scale, not construction techniques. The stamping dies just need to be retooled for the new aluminum housing pieces, no sweat with modern CNC milling equipment capable of tollerances down to thousanths of an inch. Same goes for the injection molded plastic frame bits. The problem is not due to engineering deficiencies, but sloppy assembly and QC.

Thanks for the insight on the Spotlight thing. Wonder why it took it a week and a half to figure things out, but that's another topic. Hope it continues.

Still doesn't excuse the condescending attitude at the store. Guess they've had to deal with so many unhappy customers that they've developed a bunker mentality with the MBP. No doubt about it, this machine was a bit rushed. Probably due somewhat to the screaming from the Mac community that they needed to do something about th PB line ASAP.

Cheers