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3rd Party Software Update (Page 2)
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Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: North Bay (SF)
Status:
Offline
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Ambush: No threat, I was just putting my intentions at the time in the open.
I still haven't received an email from MacUpdate, although he has shown his unwillingness to negotiate by shutting down the XML feed. I will continue to develop Renew, but I have decided to discontinue use of MacUpdates services. I'm preparing my own solution, and I'll be implementing it shortly.
In the interim..
I still need localizations! Anyone who can localize Renew for me will be first in line for the preliminary beta test, when Renew is free of dependencies. After that test I will either re-open the public beta for a short time or go final. Thanks for your support, and I apologize for the downtime. Hopefully it will not be long.
Cheers,
Matt
(
Last edited by ohm^n; Apr 2, 2003 at 05:33 AM.
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 2001
Status:
Offline
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Originally posted by macupdate:
This product illegally uses data off of the MacUpdate website to keep track of the software updates. It taps into the XML pages designed for use by UpdateRadar (www.macupdate.com/updateradar), a supported product of MacUpdate.
If you respect and enjoy the services of MacUpdate, I ask you to please refrain from supporting this product.
-Joel Mueller
www.macupdate.com
I'm no lawyer, but I'm curious as to how Renew was doing anything illegal. If the information Renew was using was in a public directory, how was it doing anything wrong?
I'm not trying to take any side in this situation, I'm just curious about the whole legal aspect. As someone who is interested in developing Sherlock plugins, I am just wondering how and what legal wrongdoing you found in the situation of Renew.
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Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Retired.
Status:
Offline
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Originally posted by ohm^n:
... although he has shown his unwillingness to negotiate by shutting down the XML feed.
Huh, I don't think so...for one thing, UpdateRadar uses that and is working fine...as well as MUMenu from Unsanity is working fine using the XML feed....
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Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Cupertino, CA
Status:
Offline
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Originally posted by gorickey:
Huh, I don't think so...for one thing, UpdateRadar uses that and is working fine...as well as MUMenu from Unsanity is working fine using the XML feed....
Rest assured, the XML feed is still working for UpdateRadar and MUMenu. We have just blocked Renew's illegal access to it.
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Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Cupertino, CA
Status:
Offline
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Originally posted by nforcer:
I'm no lawyer, but I'm curious as to how Renew was doing anything illegal. If the information Renew was using was in a public directory, how was it doing anything wrong?
I'm not trying to take any side in this situation, I'm just curious about the whole legal aspect. As someone who is interested in developing Sherlock plugins, I am just wondering how and what legal wrongdoing you found in the situation of Renew.
The information Renew used was *not* in a public directory. The program was accessing private XML feeds designed for UpdateRadar and MUMenu.
To answer your question, you need to be extra careful when developing programs that take advantage of publicly available websites. Even though the information is publicly available using your web browser, there is an entire legal issue of taking away ad-revenue from the site, etc. Usually getting the permission of the site owner is the best idea.
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Mac Elite
Join Date: May 2001
Status:
Offline
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Out of interest, what about if Renew also loaded your banner ads?
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Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: North Bay (SF)
Status:
Offline
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Gorickey: Old versions of UpdateRadar (unregistered at least) show the 'broken' XML results. I can produce a screenshot if you'd like. UpdateRadar 4.0 uses a separate feed from 3.0 clients, and isn't affected. I wasn't using the MUMenu feed, because Renew has no need to know daily listings, so I doubt that changed..
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Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: North Bay (SF)
Status:
Offline
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There are two ways to restrict access to factual information. Laws regarding copyright, and laws regarding trespass.
QUOTING: http://www.iusmentis.com/databases/us/
In the US, databases can only be protected by copyright as compilations. 17 US Code 101 defines a compilation as "a collection and assembling of preexisting materials or of data that are selected in such a way that the resulting work as a whole constitutes an original work of authorship." It is required that the selection involves some creative expression.
If there is no original/creative selection involved, the database is not protected. A telephone directory ("white pages", i.e. subscriber information) is not protected by copyright, as it represents a collection of facts, compiled without any of the creativity required for copyright protection (Feist Publications, Inc. v. Rural Telephone Service Co., 499 U.S. 340, 1991).
Before this Supreme Court decision, sevearl US courts had granted copyright protection to a collection of facts, such as a database , if the creator of the database required a lot of effort to collect the facts ("sweat of the brow" protection ). Under such protection , it was not even allowed to extract individual facts from the collection. If for example someone had compiled a list of famous persons and gave their birthdate on the list, no one was permitted to copy a single birthdate from the list. This "sweat of the brow" protection under copyright law was explicitly set aside in the Feist decision.
END QUOTE
Because I did not break any protections of any kind in accessing the data (trespass), the only way my actions could be termed 'illegal' in any sense of the word, is though a copyright violation. As you can see from above, MacUpdates database does not qualify for this 'copyright protection' because there is no 'original/creative' selection involved. It is simply a collection of facts, much like a telephone database. Program titles, versions, descriptions etc, etc. I also stated quite clearly in the PreferencePane, that Renew was using MacUpdate for the information. In no way did I try to present the information as my own, or information from a database of my ownership. You cannot claim "sweat of the brow" because there is an oft used form for developers and users to submit their applications, and application updates for entry into the MacUpdate database.
There was no legal issue here Ricci/Joel, there was a moral issue. The issue has been resolved. I have stopped using the MacUpdate database, and disabled copies of the program which did.
I ask that you stop labeling my actions illegal, as you have produced no solid tangible proof of their illegality. In this country we are innocent until proven guilty. If your false statements persist, I will be forced to consider them slander, which actually *is* illegal.
Sources:
http://www.copyright.gov/reports/execsum2.pdf
http://www.iusmentis.com/databases/us/
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Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Retired.
Status:
Offline
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Originally posted by ohm^n:
Gorickey: Old versions of UpdateRadar (unregistered at least) show the 'broken' XML results. I can produce a screenshot if you'd like. UpdateRadar 4.0 uses a separate feed from 3.0 clients, and isn't affected. I wasn't using the MUMenu feed, because Renew has no need to know daily listings, so I doubt that changed..
Gotcha, thanks for the clarification...
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