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mattstoton · Jun 8, 2002, 08:21 AM

So far it looks good... much faster than anything else.

undotwa · Jun 8, 2002, 08:23 AM

Wow, your fast... I don't seem to be able to connect to chimera.mozdev.org...

Any mirrors?

JLL · Jun 8, 2002, 08:24 AM

But there is something wrong with the text renderer:

Mozilla:

<img src="http://lunddal.dk/macnn/mozilla.jpg" alt=" - " />

Navigator:

<img src="http://lunddal.dk/macnn/navigator.jpg" alt=" - " />

EDIT: I have downloaded the latest Mozilla build which also supports Quartz antialiasing, and the same bug is in that too (not a surprise <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> )

[ 06-08-2002, 08:29 AM: Message edited by: JLL ]

Sven G · Jun 8, 2002, 08:27 AM

And, finally, with some more (working) options in the Preferences!

I only wish they could program the drawer to remain open (if you had it open previously, of course) after quitting and relaunching Chimera/Navigator - as in Mail.app, for example. It's quite tedious to have to manually open the (bookmarks) drawer each time you newly open the browser...

Jowy · Jun 8, 2002, 09:54 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Sven G:
And, finally, with some more (working) options in the Preferences!

I only wish they could program the drawer to remain open (if you had it open previously, of course) after quitting and relaunching Chimera/Navigator - as in Mail.app, for example. It's quite tedious to have to manually open the (bookmarks) drawer each time you newly open the browser...<hr /></blockquote>Email them or post to their features request board. The URL is:http://chimera.eternaltedium.com/.

wingdo · Jun 8, 2002, 10:12 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mattstoton:
So far it looks good... much faster than anything else.<hr /></blockquote>Finally a version which doesn't crawl on my G4. The menus operate smoothly, and typing in a URL isn't a test in patience. Very very nice.

Sven G · Jun 8, 2002, 10:17 AM

... Already did that on the old Chimera mailing list on mozdev.org - so "mozdave" (alias Hyatt) should have read it (about one month ago, or so)!

Of course, I realise that it cannot by any means be considered a high priority "bug": maybe it'll make it with Navigator 1.0/Apple iWeb (?)...

undotwa · Jun 8, 2002, 12:17 PM

I've got the latest stable build installed (finally).

I'm very much impressed with this build.

1. It's very stable for beta software. Hasn't crashed once and I've been using it for about an hour now.

2. Very, very, very fast

GUI is fast too. I think we can see Chimera Development team implementing features now that it's fairly stable..

3. Scrolling is acceptable but jerky. Not very smooth.

4. While I'm entering this text I've noticed an annoying bug which when I type in this field whenever I press space, it goes down a page, and when I type a normal letter, it goes back up.

5. Still can't hide the bookmarks toolbar

sandman · Jun 8, 2002, 12:29 PM

I've been wondering, why are Navigator's launch times so much longer than other browsers?

Northform · Jun 8, 2002, 12:45 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by sandman:
I've been wondering, why are Navigator's launch times so much longer than other browsers?<hr /></blockquote>It launches twice as fast as Mozilla does for me. I think it seems like it takes longer because it is bouncing the whole time. It only takes 9 bounces for me and then the first window is up and running. IE takes 4 bounces and then you get the splash screen. Mozilla takes 5 bounces, an incredibly long splash screen, and then the long pause between the splash screen going away and the first window comming up. I'm going to do some stopwatch tests because I think that most of it is a perception issue.

You should also keep in mind that this is an alpha release so it isn't finished yet and I've seen the launch get mugh faster since .12.

Jowy · Jun 8, 2002, 12:54 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Sven G:
... Already did that on the old Chimera mailing list on mozdev.org - so "mozdave" (alias Hyatt) should have read it (about one month ago, or so)!

Of course, I realise that it cannot by any means be considered a high priority "bug": maybe it'll make it with Navigator 1.0/Apple iWeb (?)...

<hr /></blockquote>Ok cool

. Yeah it probably doesn't have a very high priority but maybe it'll start getting implemented in the nightlies.

Northform · Jun 8, 2002, 01:12 PM

I restarted my computer to make sure that all the browsers were out of memory and made sure that I let my computer run for 5 minutes so to be sure that the OS wasn't still loading (wouldn't want to give an unfair advantage to any browser). I timed the time it took from when I clicked on the icon in the dock to when the first window was ready to use. In the case of OmniWeb I timed until the location was highlighted in the location bar rather than waiting for the default page to be loaded (which takes an extra second). The tests were conducted on a B&W G3/300 512k w/320MB of RAM.

Internet Explorer 5.14 - 5.7 sec.
Mozilla 1.0 - 17 sec.
OmniWeb 4.1b7 - 9.4 sec.
Chimera Navigator 0.3 - 9.5 sec.

These times greatly improve when run again since some of the program may be in memory. I think that the Chimera team might consider having the application stop bouncing after the splash screen came up since that seems to lead to a perception of a longer launch time. By the way, I ran the tests with the "Animate opening applications" option turned off in the system preferences. This could give an edge to Moz/Omni/IE since they stop the animation once the splash screen comes up, but I thought that not having the animations would be more fair.

JLL · Jun 8, 2002, 01:21 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Northform:
I restarted my computer to make sure that all the browsers were out of memory and made sure that I let my computer run for 5 minutes so to be sure that the OS wasn't still loading (wouldn't want to give an unfair advantage to any browser). I timed the time it took from when I clicked on the icon in the dock to when the first window was ready to use. In the case of OmniWeb I timed until the location was highlighted in the location bar rather than waiting for the default page to be loaded (which takes an extra second). The tests were conducted on a B&W G3/300 512k w/320MB of RAM.

Internet Explorer 5.14 - 5.7 sec.
Mozilla 1.0 - 17 sec.
OmniWeb 4.1b7 - 9.4 sec.
Chimera Navigator 0.3 - 9.5 sec.

These times greatly improve when run again since some of the program may be in memory. I think that the Chimera team might consider having the application stop bouncing after the splash screen came up since that seems to lead to a perception of a longer launch time. By the way, I ran the tests with the "Animate opening applications" option turned off in the system preferences. This could give an edge to Moz/Omni/IE since they stop the animation once the splash screen comes up, but I thought that not having the animations would be more fair.<hr /></blockquote>Why even test for app launching? You start an app once per session and isn't the rendering speed more important?

Northform · Jun 8, 2002, 02:50 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by JLL:
Why even test for app launching? You start an app once per session and isn't the rendering speed more important?[/QB]<hr /></blockquote>Because sandman said, "I've been wondering, why are Navigator's launch times so much longer than other browsers?"

I agree that the launch speed isn't that important, but it would be nice if it were as fast as IE in that respect. That's something that probably will be addressed at a later stage when Chimera is closer to completion.

dark3lf · Jun 8, 2002, 03:45 PM

It's fast as hell but still crashes if it hits a page with java embeded.

KidRed · Jun 8, 2002, 03:49 PM

You think Chimera is fast now, you should see it in 10.2. Man scrolling is soo fast on my dual gig kinda similar to IE. It does have some drawing issues, as some text won't display but the underline on the links will.

clebin · Jun 8, 2002, 03:55 PM

Another good release.

I notice that it's now using Mozilla buttons rather than native Aqua ones. I hope that the Mozilla project makes them look more Aqua-like. Attention to detail is something that the Mozilla UI doesn't have!

Definite performance improvements, though textareas and scrolling are probably the weakest links.

It's good to see the History and Prefs pane in there. I hope the Search sidebar will return when its done...

This is the only browser on my Dock right now, so I'm going to see how I get on..... There's something seriously wrong with this textarea though!

Chris

yellowdog · Jun 8, 2002, 04:08 PM

This (0.3) is a very fast and clear rendering browser. Zdnet.com displays correctly and the menus at fidelity.com display and work correctly as do the columns on my attbi.com home site. Best of all, compared with OW, I don't crash out cruising the cnn.com and espn sites. Next step is getting java script working and then it will be a mainstay browser. Preferences and menu buttons can easily be expanded and added later - but the speed and page rendering set it apart from OW at this stage of the browser game. Nothing like a little competition to benefit the users.

JLL · Jun 8, 2002, 05:08 PM

Am I the only one experiencing the bad text kerning? I see it in Chimera 0.3, Mozilla MachO and Mozilla CFM from yesterday.

sdagley · Jun 8, 2002, 09:49 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by dark3lf:
It's fast as hell but still crashes if it hits a page with java embeded.<hr /></blockquote>This is due to the current release of the MRJPluginCarbon being CFM only and Chimera, built as a mach-o app, not being smart enough to not try and load it. Until the mach-0/fat version of MRJPluginCarbon is released you'll need to remove it from the '/Library/Internet Plug-Ins' folder. You can install it in the Plug-ins folder inside the Mozilla/Netscape application package if you want Java to continue working for those apps.

KidRed · Jun 8, 2002, 11:47 PM

The 'displaying of wierd enlongated portional text' bug is back. When no font is specified (like viewing server files) the fonts is some funky wide font that is very hard to read. Oh well, back to OW until it crashes or I come to a site that doesn't like it and fire up IE.

macrophyllum · Jun 9, 2002, 01:32 AM

I like it a lot. I just wished it had some polished features. But it is fast! I have now dropped OW, switched to Mozilla and waiting for a improved Chimera!

Jeez, look at the competition!

Ricci Adams · Jun 9, 2002, 04:32 AM

Maybe this has been covered before, but will Chimera implement Tabbed browser and Group Bookmarks in the same way that Mozilla does?

Group bookmarks are the only thing keeping me from using Chimera as my primary browser right now. I love the feature in Mozilla.

Northform · Jun 9, 2002, 04:56 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by clebin:
Another good release.

I notice that it's now using Mozilla buttons rather than native Aqua ones. I hope that the Mozilla project makes them look more Aqua-like. Attention to detail is something that the Mozilla UI doesn't have!

Definite performance improvements, though textareas and scrolling are probably the weakest links.

It's good to see the History and Prefs pane in there. I hope the Search sidebar will return when its done...

This is the only browser on my Dock right now, so I'm going to see how I get on..... There's something seriously wrong with this textarea though!

Chris<hr /></blockquote>I still see Aqua buttons.

iNub · Jun 9, 2002, 08:33 AM

Oh my Ed, this is a fast renderer. Something is keeping the text I'm typing right now about a word or 2 behind me though. Still, it whips IE's ass at rendering speed (It even passes that silly test on icab.de), is much prettier than Mozilla or IE, and works with most of what I need. Truly impressive. If Apple were to adopt a standard web browser, this should be it.

iNub · Jun 9, 2002, 08:36 AM

Oh yeah, and it scrolls like it's on speed. The text looks fine to me.

rm -r /Applications/Internet\ Explorer.app

clebin · Jun 9, 2002, 11:08 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Northform:
I still see Aqua buttons.<hr /></blockquote>Look more closely. Different font, the text 'depresses' when you click... They're almost right.

Chris

nonhuman · Jun 9, 2002, 11:43 AM

I'm highly impressed with this new version. It's already replaced OmniWeb as my primary browser, and it's only on 0.3! The only thing it's lacking is download suppoer (kinda a big deal), and support for links in other programs (if I click a link in Adium it switches to Navigator, but nothing happens). Once those two things are fixed I'll have no reason to launch OmniWeb at all, which was pretty much the last bit of commercial software that I was using (not counting the OS of course <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> ).

undotwa · Jun 9, 2002, 12:23 PM

After using it for well over a day now, I've now removed IE from my dock. Yep, you heard me.

The little annoyances of lack of preferences for configuring the browser are really the only thing that gets me. Services support would be handy.

List of desired features from IE/OmniWeb:

Text Zoom
Set Character Set
Show/Hide Bookmarks Toolbar
Customize Toolbar (but implemented like in OmniWeb)
Click to download unrecognized file types
File Helpers
Protocol Helpers
Services
OmniWeb style download manager
OmniWeb style Network Activity window
OmniWeb style Source editing window
OmniWeb style bookmarks toolbar

That is all

And of course the ability to fully configure the damn thing

Northform · Jun 10, 2002, 09:07 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by clebin:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Northform:
I still see Aqua buttons.<hr /></blockquote>Look more closely. Different font, the text 'depresses' when you click... They're almost right.

Chris<hr /></blockquote>I know it's the wrong font, but that's because of how they're implimented. I thought you were getting the square windows-esque buttons from Moz in it. They're pretty close, but personally I would rather have the Moz style buttons until they can get it right. Aqua looks terrable if not implimented properly.

digimage · Jun 14, 2002, 12:32 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mattstoton:
So far it looks good... much faster than anything else.<hr /></blockquote>I installed it, customized the bookmarks, now it quits every time I launch; even if I downlaod and reinstall.

Damn. I liked it too.

Jowy · Jun 14, 2002, 06:41 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by digimage:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mattstoton:
So far it looks good... much faster than anything else.<hr /></blockquote>I installed it, customized the bookmarks, now it quits every time I launch; even if I downlaod and reinstall.

Damn. I liked it too.<hr /></blockquote>Digimage, did you try to delete its invisible prefs folder? I've done that everytime I install a new version of Chimera on my comp and I've yet to encounter any startup crashes from it anymore. To quickly remove it from the Terminal type "rm -rf .mozilla" minus the quotes. Then try it again, and hopefully it'll launch fine.

Adam Betts · Jun 15, 2002, 01:31 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by undotwa:
OmniWeb style download manager
OmniWeb style Network Activity window
OmniWeb style Source editing window
OmniWeb style bookmarks toolbar<hr /></blockquote>You want Chimera to be like OmniWeb? Why do we need two same browsers if you only need one?

I'd rather Chimera to use their own designs than borrowing from OmniGroup because they've spent lot of time developing perfect GUI.

undotwa · Jun 15, 2002, 02:45 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Adam Betts:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by undotwa:
OmniWeb style download manager
OmniWeb style Network Activity window
OmniWeb style Source editing window
OmniWeb style bookmarks toolbar<hr /></blockquote>You want Chimera to be like OmniWeb? Why do we need two same browsers if you only need one?

I'd rather Chimera to use their own designs than borrowing from OmniGroup because they've spent lot of time developing perfect GUI.<hr /></blockquote>They haven't developed a perfect GUI. These are just a few features I think Chimera should incorporate.