[Zeeb]

Just in case any of you needed to be reminded of just how far the healthcare industry and social services have fallen--here's a story for you. They pushed him out of the hospital van and left him literally crawling on the street in a gown. Apparently, its not the first time this hospital has done this either but is an unspoken policy of sorts--though they deny it.

Cops: Homeless patient 'dumped' on Skid Row - CNN.com

[Dakar²]

He was old and homeless, so he doesn't deserve healthcare.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Zeeb 

Just in case any of you needed to be reminded of just how far the healthcare industry and social services have fallen--here's a story for you.

So now what happens in LA is representative of the whole system?

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

So now what happens in LA is representative of the whole system?

Exactly.

I'm not saying our current system isn't flawed, but it's far from the worst.

What system should the US use? I would love to see a healthcare system that's designed for 300,000,000 people. All of the EU [note, I'm not knocking universal healthcare, the UK version is very good IMHO] doesn't even make up 300,000,000 people.

For a country of our size, we do OK. Yes, we have a considerable amount of room for improvement, but it could be much worse.

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

So now what happens in LA is representative of the whole system?

Homeless dumping is not limited to LA hospitals--though it appears most common there. There's a lot of outrage to this story now, but I think people may become desensitized to the point where many believe people deserve to be treated this way.

Are you saying there's nothing wrong with the healthcare/social service system and that this is just a fluke?

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh 

Exactly.

I'm not saying our current system isn't flawed, but it's far from the worst.

What system should the US use? I would love to see a healthcare system that's designed for 300,000,000 people. All of the EU [note, I'm not knocking universal healthcare, the UK version is very good IMHO] doesn't even make up 300,000,000 people.

For a country of our size, we do OK. Yes, we have a considerable amount of room for improvement, but it could be much worse.

If you have health insurance there's not much wrong with the system. If you don't, in many cases you simply don't get healthcare at all. I would say there's something wrong with that.

Also, there are plenty of very hard working people out there who don't have healthcare.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Zeeb 

Homeless dumping is not limited to LA hospitals--though it appears most common there. There's a lot of outrage to this story now, but I think people may become desensitized to the point where many believe people deserve to be treated this way.

Are you saying there's nothing wrong with the healthcare/social service system and that this is just a fluke?

As someone who has used the healthcare system quite a bit, yeah it's better than many of you admit. The main problem is cost and much of that is the direct or indirect fault of the very people that many wish to turn the system over to, the Government.

To indict the whole system because some hospital do this is just asinine.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Zeeb 

Also, there are plenty of very hard working people out there who don't have healthcare.

They are doing crappy entry-level or under-the-table jobs.

If you are employed health insurance is pretty easy to come by.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh 

What system should the US use? I would love to see a healthcare system that's designed for 300,000,000 people. All of the EU doesn't even make up 300,000,000 people.

I think you'll find that there's a few more people than that in the EU.

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh 

[note, I'm not knocking universal healthcare, the UK version is very good IMHO]

Ahahahahahahahaahahahahahahaha.

Everyone I know who hasn't got health insurance dreads going into hospital. Probably because 5,000 odd people come out of them per year with skin-eating diseases picked up whilst there (because they're dirt holes).


OK, on a positive note, if you want universal healthcare the best way to do it is probably to have the money follow the patient. Exactly the same as you have now, but with vouchers that the patients can spend. This leaves the patient able to choose where to have treatment and still retains some level of competition between hospitals.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally Posted by Zeeb 

If you have health insurance there's not much wrong with the system. If you don't, in many cases you simply don't get healthcare at all. I would say there's something wrong with that.

Also, there are plenty of very hard working people out there who don't have healthcare.

If you walk into an emergency room, they can not turn you away.

I agree that there are plenty of people that deserve healthcare... I'm not denying that fact. I'm just saying that there are far too many people that think that universal health care wouldn't be extremely difficult to implement with 300+ million people.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

I think you'll find that there's a few more people than that in the EU.

Like 500,000,000

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

I think you'll find that there's a few more people than that in the EU.

I stand corrected:

2007 Estimates: 492,215,000

But still, not even the entire EU has universal healthcare. I think that's my point.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh 

If you walk into an emergency room, they can not turn you away.

I agree that there are plenty of people that deserve healthcare... I'm not denying that fact. I'm just saying that there are far too many people that think that universal health care wouldn't be extremely difficult to implement with 300+ million people.

Spread over 50 states that cover 9,000,000 square miles all with different needs. Nah, that would be a cluster f*ck at all…

Gimme a state system and I MIGHT be able to get behind it. Federal level forget it. I really don't want those crooks in charge of my healthcare, let alone 1/7th of our economy.

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

They are doing crappy entry-level or under-the-table jobs.

If you are employed health insurance is pretty easy to come by.

So the type of job someone does--even though they are hard working--determines whether someone deserves healthcare? If they are working at a crappy job its their own fault if they get sick.

There are some parts of the country where most of the jobs availabe do not come with healthcare. You have to go to larger areas before you start to see an employer giving benefits to someone who works an entry level job.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Zeeb 

So the type of job someone does--even though they are hard working--determines whether someone deserves healthcare? If they are working at a crappy job its their own fault if they get sick.

There are some parts of the country where most of the jobs availabe do not come with healthcare. You have to go to larger areas before you start to see an employer giving benefits to someone who works an entry level job.

My point was that you are over blowing that number of working people that don't have health insurance, and that of those it's usually a temporary situation and they are very often single or underage and under their parents' policy.

"Deserves" got nuthin' to do with it.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

This seems to happen a lot.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally Posted by Zeeb 

So the type of job someone does--even though they are hard working--determines whether someone deserves healthcare? If they are working at a crappy job its their own fault if they get sick.

The job doesn't matter, but if you aren't paying taxes... IMHO, you aren't contributing to society... thus, shouldn't receive free healthcare.



I'm sorry, but yes. If you are avoiding contributing to society (paying taxes) why should you benefit from society?

Originally Posted by Zeeb 

There are some parts of the country where most of the jobs availabe do not come with healthcare. You have to go to larger areas before you start to see an employer giving benefits to someone who works an entry level job.

This is where I would like to see the federal government... pressure the states to start implementing incentive programs for businesses. Something (lower taxes if you give your people healthcare).

I agree. I think the state approach is the way to go.

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh 

The job doesn't matter, but if you aren't paying taxes... IMHO, you aren't contributing to society... thus, shouldn't receive free healthcare.

I'm sorry, but yes. If you are avoiding contributing to society (paying taxes) why should you benefit from society?

I've known several people who are employed and pay taxes but are not offered health care--so I'm not sure to whom you are referring. However, lets assume for a moment that you have a person who does not pay taxes. Does that justify throwing a paraplegic out of a van for him to crawl around in the dirt?

Also, if a person is ill enough they will not be working--therefore will not be paying taxes.

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

My point was that you are over blowing that number of working people that don't have health insurance, and that of those it's usually a temporary situation and they are very often single or underage and under their parents' policy.

"Deserves" got nuthin' to do with it.

I disagree. There are enough working people without health care in this country to have made this an important national issue that comes up in almost every election.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

Gimme a state system and I MIGHT be able to get behind it. Federal level forget it. I really don't want those crooks in charge of my healthcare, let alone 1/7th of our economy.

You think spending 500 Billion on fighting 2 wars is tax money well spent?

Just for kicks think of all the people who died in the last 100 years from "Terrorist attacks" in the US and then think of the 500 Billion spent on just the wars in the last 6 years.

Now think of how many people in the US die A DAY from being too poor to afford medical treatment and how much it would cost in tax dollars for nationwide health care.

Money well spent.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Zeeb 

Just in case any of you needed to be reminded of just how far the healthcare industry and social services have fallen--here's a story for you. They pushed him out of the hospital van and left him literally crawling on the street in a gown. Apparently, its not the first time this hospital has done this either but is an unspoken policy of sorts--though they deny it.

What's the big deal? He lives on the street, right? That's his home, right? Ergo, they drove him home - for free!

Last time I went to a hospital, they didn't drive me home for free.

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

What's the big deal? He lives on the street, right? That's his home, right? Ergo, they drove him home - for free!

Last time I went to a hospital, they didn't drive me home for free.

OMG, I totally missed that and I completely misunderstood! They were just doing the poor guy a favor.

[ghporter]

That's a pretty broad brush to paint the whole healthcare industry with. I read the report and there's not enough information to say what happened before the guy was dumped. It's a tragedy that he was just dumped, but we need to know how it happened and who did what in that process before anyone says "this reflects the whole..." anything.

It makes me sick to my stomach to think that this could happen, but it makes me mad at who did it too. And I'm mad at the folks here who might think "that's what health professionals do," because it's not. It's certainly not what I'm being taught, not what my wife learned or does, nor what any professional that I know in the healthcare industry does.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

They are doing crappy entry-level or under-the-table jobs.

If you are employed health insurance is pretty easy to come by.

http://www.cbpp.org/8-30-05health.htm

The number of people without health insurance was 45.8 million in 2004, compared to 45.0 million in 2003 and 39.8 million in 2000 (see table below).

The increase in the number of those without insurance was focused among working age adults. The percentage of working adults (18 to 64) who were uninsured climbed from 18.6 percent in 2003 to 19.0 percent in 2004 (an increase of over 750,000 people in 2004).

_________________

If you are working, health insurance is not necessarily easy to come by, and more employers are cutting back on benefits, including insurance!

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

That's a pretty broad brush to paint the whole healthcare industry with. I read the report and there's not enough information to say what happened before the guy was dumped. It's a tragedy that he was just dumped, but we need to know how it happened and who did what in that process before anyone says "this reflects the whole..." anything.

It makes me sick to my stomach to think that this could happen, but it makes me mad at who did it too. And I'm mad at the folks here who might think "that's what health professionals do," because it's not. It's certainly not what I'm being taught, not what my wife learned or does, nor what any professional that I know in the healthcare industry does.

I can't imagine a physician or nurse condoning something like this at all. I imagine the decision to do this was made by the administration at the hospital--and I do believe it was a conscious decision. Someone at the hospital realized that there is no money to have kept that guy in the hospital and probably thought they could get away with dumping him. Administrators are making these decisions and they didn't have to take a hypocratic oath.

{edit} I don't mean to suggest that all hospital administrators are evil, heartless people--far from it. However, whereas a doctor's concern is with treatment they are often under pressure to cut costs-enormous pressure in some cases. Yet, an administrator has just as much or even more control over the treatment of an individual.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Zeeb 

If you have health insurance there's not much wrong with the system. If you don't, in many cases you simply don't get healthcare at all. I would say there's something wrong with that.

Also, there are plenty of very hard working people out there who don't have healthcare.

Not true. You can get health care without health insuarnce. You actually less than the insurance company would. I know people who don't have health insurance and doctor's office charges them about 25% less because they pay with cash.

Originally Posted by smacintush 

They are doing crappy entry-level or under-the-table jobs.

If you are employed health insurance is pretty easy to come by.

No, it's not. The couple I talked of above both work full-time. She's a journalist and he teaches a a private college.

Less and less companies are offering health care or lowering their coverage.

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker 

This seems to happen a lot.

Wow, I'd hate to live in Canada! It is so rare here that it makes all of the major news outlets and then get discussed on the 'NN

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker 

Now think of how many people in the US die A DAY from being too poor to afford medical treatment and how much it would cost in tax dollars for nationwide health care.

None. If they died it is their own fault because there a a LOT of free or charity health care outlets such as clinics and hospitals

Originally Posted by KarlG 

http://www.cbpp.org/8-30-05health.htm

The number of people without health insurance was 45.8 million in 2004, compared to 45.0 million in 2003 and 39.8 million in 2000 (see table below).

The increase in the number of those without insurance was focused among working age adults. The percentage of working adults (18 to 64) who were uninsured climbed from 18.6 percent in 2003 to 19.0 percent in 2004 (an increase of over 750,000 people in 2004).

_________________

If you are working, health insurance is not necessarily easy to come by, and more employers are cutting back on benefits, including insurance!

Very true. But most on here are confusing health care and health insurance.

[Miniryu]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

They are doing crappy entry-level or under-the-table jobs.

If you are employed health insurance is pretty easy to come by.

Bull$#!+
I have three jobs- I don't get health insurance from any of them because I don't work enough hours. I can't work full time at any of them because I am a grad student and my research hours interfere with a regular work schedule.

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

Not true. You can get health care without health insurance. You actually less than the insurance company would. I know people who don't have health insurance and doctor's office charges them about 25% less because they pay with cash.

This is true as long as you have a relatively generic health problem that doesn't require a specialist or an expensive treatment. Get rushed to the hospital after a car crash and see how those discounts hold up.

Originally Posted by Railroader 

Less and less companies are offering health care or lowering their coverage.

Can't disagree with that.

Originally Posted by Railroader 

None. If they died it is their own fault because there a a LOT of free or charity health care outlets such as clinics and hospitals

Not necessarily. There are a lot of free charity clinics and hospitals out there but they are overwhelmed and those who need them often can't always get to them. Many of these free agencies provide preventative or basic care and so wouldn't be able to assist someone who had to have say, a transplant or chemo. There are many people who go bankrupt even with insurance.

Originally Posted by Railroader 

Very true. But most on here are confusing health care and health insurance.

Correct, I for one have been using the terms interchangeably. I thought about why, and realized in my mind the only way to get serious health care is to have health insurance. They are one and the same in a way.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

Wow, I'd hate to live in Canada! It is so rare here that it makes all of the major news outlets and then get discussed on the 'NN

Funny I never said canada.

And yes it is so rare I watched an hour long show about it on an American station.

If you ask me once is too much.

[shifuimam]

Interesting responses.

What happened to the guy was terrible, but a lot of what I'm seeing here is typical pro-Socialist crap about how the government is responsible to take care of people who don't, can't, or won't take care of themselves.

In the state of Indiana, government-supplied healthcare provides better benefits than even people like I (with a salaried, full-time job with benefits) get by paying for insurance. The healthcare industry is a shambles, and it's not because the government isn't providing enough free handouts to citizens who aren't qualified to get a job with real healthcare. Doctors and hospitals and immediate care centers cost more and more every year, and the health insurance industry is falling to pieces because of it. We have to pay more every year for steadily decreasing benefits, because the insurance companies can't afford to continue to pay the ridiculously overinflated rates quoted to them by healthcare providers.

The government cannot be made responsible for the lives of the population that can't get jobs that provide the benefits and salary they want. Miniryu, does your school have a health insurance plan? I remember that every year, IU advertised its health insurance options available to students. While I'm sure the benefits aren't as good as what you might get at a salaried position, it's better than no benefits at all.

Continually raising taxes is not the answer to the nation's economic problems. How about this bright idea? Reduce spending. Find an initiative that will get the healthcare providers to drop their rates so that health insurance companies can afford to provide decent insurance without sending customer rates through the roof. Healthcare is a commodity like oil - we can't really get along without it, so we're at the mercy of those who decide how much they feel like charging us.

Too many people abuse free handouts from the government. Too many people are lazy bums who refuse to get jobs because they'd rather sit on their ass and live off food stamps. Too many people get pregnant so that they can qualify for more state and federal "aid". It's been the downfall of the welfare system, and unless we can filter out the lazy bums to provide benefits and help to those who deserve it and really need it, the system is never going to really work.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Funny I never said canada.

And yes it is so rare I watched an hour long show about it on an American station.

If you ask me once is too much.

I assumed Canada because you are talking about something that has happened once in the USA and you say it happens a lot. So I assumed you meant Canada because that's where you're from and I assumed you would be more familiar with Canada than the USA.

I guess I assumed to much. Kind of like I assumed you had me on ignore from you having told me that in the past.

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Interesting responses.

What happened to the guy was terrible, but a lot of what I'm seeing here is typical pro-Socialist crap about how the government is responsible to take care of people who don't, can't, or won't take care of themselves.

Actually, there has been very little pro-socialist sentiment. Many are just discussing the state of health care and this particular situation over this paraplegic guy.

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

In the state of Indiana, government-supplied healthcare provides better benefits than even people like I (with a salaried, full-time job with benefits) get by paying for insurance. The healthcare industry is a shambles, and it's not because the government isn't providing enough free handouts to citizens who aren't qualified to get a job with real healthcare. Doctors and hospitals and immediate care centers cost more and more every year, and the health insurance industry is falling to pieces because of it. We have to pay more every year for steadily decreasing benefits, because the insurance companies can't afford to continue to pay the ridiculously overinflated rates quoted to them by healthcare providers.

I agree.

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

The government cannot be made responsible for the lives of the population that can't get jobs that provide the benefits and salary they want.

Every time health care issues come up, people say its too expensive for the government to fix. Yet when there is a military campaign on the horizon, suddenly hundreds of billions of dollars appear like magic. We can fix it and we can afford it--we just haven't decided its a priority. It's like deciding we would rather buy the new Mac Pro at the Apple store instead of paying rent.

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Continually raising taxes is not the answer to the nation's economic problems. How about this bright idea? Reduce spending. Find an initiative that will get the healthcare providers to drop their rates so that health insurance companies can afford to provide decent insurance without sending customer rates through the roof. Healthcare is a commodity like oil - we can't really get along without it, so we're at the mercy of those who decide how much they feel like charging us.

Getting health care providers to reduce their rates is a great idea--how?

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Too many people abuse free handouts from the government. Too many people are lazy bums who refuse to get jobs because they'd rather sit on their ass and live off food stamps. Too many people get pregnant so that they can qualify for more state and federal "aid". It's been the downfall of the welfare system, and unless we can filter out the lazy bums to provide benefits and help to those who deserve it and really need it, the system is never going to really work.

Ok, so you seem to be assuming that everyone who doesn't have insurance or can't afford to go to the doctor is a lazy bum on welfare. YOU could easily go bankrupt from health care costs even with your insurance. If you get a serious, chronic condition (I hope you don't) your insurance company won't cover everything and will top out. By the way, you could also lose your job from your illness and end up on welfare.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Zeeb 

This is true as long as you have a relatively generic health problem that doesn't require a specialist or an expensive treatment. Get rushed to the hospital after a car crash and see how those discounts hold up.

You'll stil get health care. You'll just have a lot of debt as well. What's worth more, your health or being debt free? As much as I am the banner carrier for debt free living, I'd still go deep in debt to save my life or a member of my family's life.

Originally Posted by Zeeb 

Can't disagree with that.

Some people do.

Originally Posted by Zeeb 

Not necessarily. There are a lot of free charity clinics and hospitals out there but they are overwhelmed and those who need them often can't always get to them. Many of these free agencies provide preventative or basic care and so wouldn't be able to assist someone who had to have say, a transplant or chemo. There are many people who go bankrupt even with insurance.

Again, see my response a few lines up.

Originally Posted by Zeeb 

Correct, I for one have been using the terms interchangeably. I thought about why, and realized in my mind the only way to get serious health care is to have health insurance. They are one and the same in a way.

It's far from true. They are not interchangeable. You can often get better health care if you pay cash. The best doctors and hospitals are getting tired of the paperwork and hassle of modern health insurance agencies. If you and I walked into a hospital with the exact same emergency and I had a history of paying cash on the spot and you had a history of using an insurance company that ties up payments with paperwork then I assure you I'd get better and faster help.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Interesting responses.

What happened to the guy was terrible, but a lot of what I'm seeing here is typical pro-Socialist crap about how the government ***SNIP***

The current health insurance industry is essentially exactly like a socialist health system. What you see with the health insurance industry is mild compared to what would happen if the gov't. took over.

The health care industry has become lazy and inefficient because of the health insurance industry.

I think the health care industry would be more efficient and probably cost a lot less if less people had health insurance. Along with the litigation situation in our country. They'd learn to cut corners and not order redundant tests simply to cover their liability. You wouldn't have people clogging up the offices every time the had a tiny cough or mild sprain. Or taking prescription medicine that they probably don't need.

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

... help to those who deserve it and really need it, the system is never going to really work.

"We hold these truths to be..."

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

You'll stil get health care. You'll just have a lot of debt as well. What's worth more, your health or being debt free? As much as I am the banner carrier for debt free living, I'd still go deep in debt to save my life or a member of my family's life.

Certainly I would go into debt to save my life or the life of someone I loved. It's just alarming that there seems to be a spike in how many people are forced to make that choice.

Originally Posted by Railroader 

It's far from true. They are not interchangeable. You can often get better health care if you pay cash. The best doctors and hospitals are getting tired of the paperwork and hassle of modern health insurance agencies. If you and I walked into a hospital with the exact same emergency and I had a history of paying cash on the spot and you had a history of using an insurance company that ties up payments with paperwork then I assure you I'd get better and faster help.

I think in that situation you'd be right. However, if you and I entered a different hospital where they were unaware that you were able to pay cash and I had an insurance card in my pocket who would get the better care then? Doctors shouldn't work harder to save one person's life over another but that's not the way things seem to be headed.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Zeeb 

I think in that situation you'd be right. However, if you and I entered a different hospital where they were unaware that you were able to pay cash and I had an insurance card in my pocket who would get the better care then? Doctors shouldn't work harder to save one person's life over another but that's not the way things seem to be headed.

You'd be surprised. I bet we'd get similar treatment. Now if I had unpaid bills with that hospital and hadn't tried to set up payments I think you'd get better service.

Hospitals and doctors awouldn't exist if it weren't for money. The level of care for the poorer people is actually increased by serving first a person who they know will pay the bills. If the bills aren't paid then even the poor won't get help.

[Atomic Rooster]

It's all about freakin' money and that just sucks.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

Kind of like I assumed you had me on ignore from you having told me that in the past.

Oops you're right, sometimes my ignore lists across user names isn't consistent. I'll have that fixed in a sec, thanks for the reminder

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Oops you're right, sometimes my ignore lists across user names isn't consistent. I'll have that fixed in a sec, thanks for the reminder

You crack me up.

[driven]

I'd like to see them deregulate healthcare a lot more and open it up to some real competition. If people didn't automatically take the insurance that their employer gave them, and instead could shop around for the best rates and the best service then I believe our system would improve. This would be similar to car insurance and homeowners insurance. Why is medical insurance different?

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Zeeb 

I disagree. There are enough working people without health care in this country to have made this an important national issue that comes up in almost every election.

Gee, let's see: They are offering a MAJOR, across the board entitlement that they say would mostly be paid for by those eeeevil rich people…yeah, I can't imagine why it would be an issue.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker 

You think spending 500 Billion on fighting 2 wars is tax money well spent?

No, and that $500B would last about 3 months.

[smacintush]

I'll say what I've said before: 11 years ago my son got cancer and racked up about $500,000 in bill over 9 months.

My cost? $0. The health care IS THERE for people. There ARE ways to get help with payment. Yes, the system SUCKS, it's inefficient and inelegant. I have dealt with 7 hospitals in two states since then and I it amazes me how STUPID the billings departments are. It's like they have trained monkeys working for them.

This doesn't mean that we should turn it all over to the Federal Government. Have ANY of you paid attention to how the US government WORKS? THEY **** EVERYTHING UP! If there is another way to make things WORSE it's to turn this over to the US government.

[driven]

Well ... I was hospitalized for a brain virus for 10 days. My portion of the expenses were $10k+. Sucks, but I'm alive ... so who can complain. If I had a choice in insurance companies I might have chosen a better plan. None the less I can't complain.

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

I'll say what I've said before: 11 years ago my son got cancer and racked up about $500,000 in bill over 9 months.

My cost? $0. The health care IS THERE for people. There ARE ways to get help with payment. Yes, the system SUCKS, it's inefficient and inelegant. I have dealt with 7 hospitals in two states since then and I it amazes me how STUPID the billings departments are. It's like they have trained monkeys working for them.

This doesn't mean that we should turn it all over to the Federal Government. Have ANY of you paid attention to how the US government WORKS? THEY **** EVERYTHING UP! If there is another way to make things WORSE it's to turn this over to the US government.

I'm glad your son is better and I'm also glad you weren't on the hook for that bill. Your son is very lucky to have had someone like you to advocate for him and see to it that things ran the way they should have. What do you think would have happened if you weren't there? As you have discovered, when there is a serious illness its a huge job to make sure the system works for you--it certainly doesn't happen automatically and not everyone has an intelligent and capable person to take care of those details for them. A seriously ill person can't walk into a billing department and argue. Did insurance pay for part of your son's treatment? Because what we're talking about here is an extreme example of how someone was treated without insurance.

You seem to be expressing yourself in binary terms. Either the system stays the way it is or has to be completely taken over by the Federal government. Since no one would mistake you for a socialist, that must mean that things need to stay the way they are--but the system is collapsing. I'm dreading the effect that retiring and ill prepared boomers are going to have on this issue.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh 

The job doesn't matter, but if you aren't paying taxes... IMHO, you aren't contributing to society... thus, shouldn't receive free healthcare.

I'm sorry, but yes. If you are avoiding contributing to society (paying taxes) why should you benefit from society?

This is where I would like to see the federal government... pressure the states to start implementing incentive programs for businesses. Something (lower taxes if you give your people healthcare).

I agree. I think the state approach is the way to go.

Just a note:

The US health care system is the most expensive in the world on a per capita basis, despite the fact that not everyone has coverage. Also, several measures of overall health care effectiveness for the general population is lower in the US than many other western countries.

I think that should be a serious concern for any US citizen. It's also of note that much of the higher cost is due to administrative costs, since the US system is so complex.