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Why more expensive food will be good for some
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Zeeb
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May 26, 2008, 01:25 PM
 
A lot of the people doing the complaining about expensive food are middle class. Since the U.S. leads the world in overweight and obese adults, is more expensive food so bad really? Do we really need two cheeseburgers for lunch? Even the homeless people I see on the streets are generally overweight. If the price of food tripled it might actually turn out to be a *healthy* development since presumably people will eat less.

Of course, I recognize there are many poor families that would be devastated with higher food prices and for their sakes I hope food remains cheap. However, considering everyone else. . .
     
Eug
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May 26, 2008, 01:36 PM
 
Since when are cheeseburgers expensive in the US?

ie. It could have the opposite effect. With rising food prices, some people might be more inclined to go for cheaper fat-laden fast food instead of more healthy eats.
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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May 26, 2008, 01:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Since when are cheeseburgers expensive in the US?

ie. It could have the opposite effect. With rising food prices, some people might be more inclined to go for cheaper fat-laden fast food instead of more healthy eats.
Ya you're right. Right now most fast food places offer "value meals" that are cheaper than anything else out there.

Organic and healthy foods are always more.
     
Zeeb  (op)
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May 26, 2008, 01:41 PM
 
Good point. I suppose people might cut out the salmon fillet in favor of french fries.
     
paul w
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May 26, 2008, 01:43 PM
 
^ Exactly. If you've ever lived in poor areas the selection is either cheap, fried and unhealthy or more of the same.

Rising food costs won't help break that cycle.
     
k squared
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May 26, 2008, 01:44 PM
 
Optimistically, I hope locally grown / non-petroleum fertilizer-based crops become more affordable, but I doubt it. Also, with the price of corn rising, the switch back to real sweeteners, rather than HFCS, would be a boon to help reduce the obesity and diabetic rates in the U.S. But again, I doubt any of this will happen.
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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May 26, 2008, 01:48 PM
 
If you are stupid enough to think that a "Diet coke" is watching your weight when ordering a burger or deep fried chicken bucket then the cost of food isn't going to make you any smarter or slimmer.

If you are fat, sit down (which I am sure you already are) and think about why you are this way other than your "big bones".
     
turtle777
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May 26, 2008, 02:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by k squared View Post
Optimistically, I hope locally grown / non-petroleum fertilizer-based crops become more affordable, but I doubt it.
I'm hoping that one day, we can genetically engineer human beings so we can run on Ethanol as well.

-t
     
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May 26, 2008, 03:27 PM
 
bolloxs, wrong thread. delete me please.
     
Mastrap
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May 26, 2008, 04:07 PM
 
The poorer people are, the poorer their diet. Rising food prices will mean more of the same.
     
ghporter
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May 26, 2008, 04:15 PM
 
Unfortunately, this is the first generation where the cheapest food is the most calorie-heavy, and the first in which a lower income has a strong connection with obesity instead of being underweight. It's a combination of a number of things, including cultural food customs, mass-produced foods that were once an occasional thing but are now a staple, and families with both parents working and thus not spending time planning and preparing healthy meals. It's sad.

On the other hand, I feel that I'm solidly middle class, and while food is more expensive than it was this time last year, I don't see it as a major issue. I still buy the brands I prefer even though they're more expensive (the competition is also more expensive), and grumble about how milk is expensive (though it's no longer much more expensive than gasoline). It's not really the "middle class" as I understand it that are having problems putting food on the table. It's the people who are scraping by that are having to make big adjustments.

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May 26, 2008, 09:06 PM
 
We need to remove the government subsidy for unhealthy food that we have right now.
     
Zeeb  (op)
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May 26, 2008, 09:32 PM
 
Strangely though, while the price of my bagel went up from $1.25 to $1.90 the price of proteins at the local grocery store have remained mostly the same. Maybe it will just take a while longer for higher feed prices to trickle down--or perhaps my grocery store was always overpriced.
     
Captain Obvious
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May 26, 2008, 09:46 PM
 
Get rid of the required use of ethanol in our gas and limiting the uses of high-fructose corn syrup will get farmers growing crops that are more beneficial to our food supply.

But the theory that the increase in food costs will make people here healthier is retarded. The cheapest foods are the worst for you.

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peeb
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May 26, 2008, 09:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by Captain Obvious View Post
But the theory that the increase in food costs will make people here healthier is retarded. The cheapest foods are the worst for you.
That has a lot to do with the fact that they are the most subsidized.
( Last edited by peeb; May 26, 2008 at 09:56 PM. )
     
turtle777
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May 26, 2008, 11:20 PM
 
That's a very good point, peeb. Never seen these side by side.

-t
     
MacosNerd
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May 27, 2008, 08:12 AM
 
In my estimation there's not one single cause for obesity in the US. You can point to quite a number of factors, none of which will be impacted by rising food prices.

For instance, you can track the increase weight to Americans with the increased use of high fructose corn syrup. The more I read about this the more I am convinced that this ingredient is unhealthy and hinders the body in losing weight. Yet 70 to 80 percent of the food lists that as an ingredient. Additionally so called low fat foods have this in higher quantities (to offset the absence of fat).

Then there's the fast food places, when I was growing up, I got to go to McDonnell's once in a blue moon as a treat. Now its a weekly or even a daily place for many people. Just see the movie super-size me to see the impact.

our increasingly sedentary lifestyle has a huge effect on our weight. We're in watching tv, playing video games, sitting around. I also remember when I was a kid that I was outside more then inside during the summer. It seems for many kids this is now the opposite. Adults are even less active and their (our) metabolism is slower so we're more apt to put on those few extra pounds.
     
Eug
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May 27, 2008, 08:43 AM
 
There is one single cause for obesity in the US of A. People eat too many calories and don't burn those calories off.



This picture is a bit old, but it does illustrate what I'm getting at. I've seen other lists that have put the US at the top of the list though.


Originally Posted by MacosNerd View Post
For instance, you can track the increase weight to Americans with the increased use of high fructose corn syrup. The more I read about this the more I am convinced that this ingredient is unhealthy and hinders the body in losing weight.
Then you're reading the wrong material, because simple sugars like that are very easy for the body to burn off... Just be aware of your caloric intake, to which fructose and glucose contribute of course.
( Last edited by Eug; May 27, 2008 at 08:49 AM. )
     
ghporter
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May 27, 2008, 11:34 AM
 
High fructose corn syrup seems to interfere with the signals that represent satiety. This results in eating more to be "full," and thus consuming more calories. This is because fructose doesn't stimulate insulin production the way sucrose does, and insulin is one step in the chain of turning off the "hunger" signal. Fructose also stimulates the liver to release lipids into the bloodstream, which can aggravate atherosclerosis and elevate cholesterol levels.

The Mayo Clinic sides with MacosNerd on this, at least to some degree. And take a look at the references listed in the Wiki article on HFCS; it's pretty strong stuff. Whether it's "to blame" for obesity or not, it's not a "nice" product. It is associated with higher levels of carbonyl compounds in sodas, the enzymes used to break down the glucose in corn starch in order to make HFCS are genetically modified (a problem for some people), and the reliance on this sweetener has altered the agricultural production balance in odd ways. Plus Cargill foods, the major supplier of HFCS to the beverage industry, is not what you would call a "good corporate neighbor" in a lot of ways (much like all agribusinesses—check out ADM as well). And the biggest reason it's used so widely is that it is CHEAP. Not that it's good, nor that it tastes good, but that it's easier to produce this sweetener in a factory than it is to harvest cane or other sources and produce plain old sucrose from it.

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May 27, 2008, 11:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
High fructose corn syrup seems to interfere with the signals that represent satiety. This results in eating more to be "full," and thus consuming more calories.
Yet another reason why I avoid the stuff like the plague.
     
Eug
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May 27, 2008, 11:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
High fructose corn syrup seems to interfere with the signals that represent satiety. This results in eating more to be "full," and thus consuming more calories. This is because fructose doesn't stimulate insulin production the way sucrose does, and insulin is one step in the chain of turning off the "hunger" signal. Fructose also stimulates the liver to release lipids into the bloodstream, which can aggravate atherosclerosis and elevate cholesterol levels.

The Mayo Clinic sides with MacosNerd on this, at least to some degree. And take a look at the references listed in the Wiki article on HFCS; it's pretty strong stuff. Whether it's "to blame" for obesity or not, it's not a "nice" product. It is associated with higher levels of carbonyl compounds in sodas, the enzymes used to break down the glucose in corn starch in order to make HFCS are genetically modified (a problem for some people), and the reliance on this sweetener has altered the agricultural production balance in odd ways. Plus Cargill foods, the major supplier of HFCS to the beverage industry, is not what you would call a "good corporate neighbor" in a lot of ways (much like all agribusinesses—check out ADM as well). And the biggest reason it's used so widely is that it is CHEAP. Not that it's good, nor that it tastes good, but that it's easier to produce this sweetener in a factory than it is to harvest cane or other sources and produce plain old sucrose from it.
You guys are misinterpreting the basics. The basics are that simple sugars very quickly absorbed, and do not promote satiety as quickly as protein and fat. Thus, if you eat lots of it, you may not feel full, but have taken in higher calories.

However, the bottom line is the extra calories.

For example, it's quite possible to lose weight on a high carbohydrate diet, as long as you watch the caloric intake vs. caloric expenditure. People don't like high carbohydrate diets because it's harder to feel full on them, but OTOH, the preferred dietary content suggested by most physicians is actually 60% carbs (30% fat, 10% protein)... although those carbs should generally be in the form of real food (such as from grains, vegetables, and fruit).

To put it another way, sugar is not inherently bad. What's bad is overconsumption of calories. Do you really need to drink a coke, when you can just as easily drink a glass of water?

And no, it's not as if substituting sucrose instead of glucose would solve any problems. Remember, sucrose has a HIGHER caloric content on a per sweetness basis than glucose.
     
ghporter
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May 27, 2008, 03:42 PM
 
I think we're on the same page, Eug. But there are things about HFCS that are just creepy, including who makes it and how they do it. I'm staying away from it and have rediscovered things like honey and lightly sweetened foods. I occasionally have a Coke, but that's pretty rare anymore. And much of this is simple awareness of HFCS and how ubiquitous it is.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
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May 27, 2008, 04:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by MacosNerd View Post
Yet 70 to 80 percent of the food lists that as an ingredient.
Of processed foods. As long as you avoid those you're ok.
     
MacosNerd
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May 27, 2008, 04:09 PM
 
I don't think we're missing the point here. We eat until we're full, with HFCS, we're not feeling full and thus we eat more. As a nation, we're also eating way too much fatty fast food type foods. And finally as a nation we are heck of lot more sedentary then we were 20 or 30 years ago.

Also I believe HFCS is inherently bad as it brings virtually nothing to the party and causes us to over eat.

Regular sugar would be far better. HFCS isn't the sole cause, there are many factors, but I am trying to manage those factors in my life by limiting the types of food that have tons of artificial ingredients. I also work out regularly. I run 6 days a week between 3 and 10 miles. I also avoid the fast food restaurants like the plague.
     
Eug
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May 27, 2008, 04:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
I think we're on the same page, Eug. But there are things about HFCS that are just creepy, including who makes it and how they do it. I'm staying away from it and have rediscovered things like honey and lightly sweetened foods. I occasionally have a Coke, but that's pretty rare anymore. And much of this is simple awareness of HFCS and how ubiquitous it is.
Originally Posted by MacosNerd View Post
I don't think we're missing the point here. We eat until we're full, with HFCS, we're not feeling full and thus we eat more. As a nation, we're also eating way too much fatty fast food type foods. And finally as a nation we are heck of lot more sedentary then we were 20 or 30 years ago.

Also I believe HFCS is inherently bad as it brings virtually nothing to the party and causes us to over eat.
HFCS doesn't "cause" people to overeat. People cause people to overeat.

Seriously though, this is simply another excuse for people not taking responsibility for their own actions. People would rather blame some mysterious evil company or some evil bad foods rather than just watch their caloric intake and get off their assets for some exercise.

It kinda reminds me of people who stop drinking coke only to have 3 glasses of wine with their meal, not considering the fact that there are in fact more calories in wine than there is in coke (and no evil glucose-fructose syrup in wine).


Regular sugar would be far better.
Nope it wouldn't. To achieve the same sweetness, you'd actually have to have at least as many calories with regular sugar.

P.S. Guess what honey is? It's "natural", but it's - you guessed it - mainly fructose and glucose... in a syrup. Honey isn't inherently "good" just because it's natural, just as HFCS isn't inherently "bad" because it's manufactured. Both need to be ingested in moderation, and neither make you feel "full" quickly.
( Last edited by Eug; May 27, 2008 at 05:20 PM. )
     
k squared
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May 27, 2008, 09:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by Mastrap View Post
Of processed foods. As long as you avoid those you're ok.
Amen. When I stopped eating processed foods and started cooking, I lost 10-15 pounds. Without exercise. This also includes trying to avoid HFCS as much as possible...but it's tough as it's in everything. I must look like a freak reading all the labels in the bread aisle.
     
MacosNerd
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May 27, 2008, 09:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by k squared View Post
I must look like a freak reading all the labels in the bread aisle.
Same here, I am so shocked that HFCS made its way in some of the whole wheat breads I used to buy.

Takes me a lot longer to shop, but at least I'm getting food that's better for me and my family
     
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May 28, 2008, 12:04 AM
 
Hopefully that barbarian hoard known as the third world will feel the crunch worst of all, and they will stop reproducing like rabbits.
     
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May 28, 2008, 12:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by Kerrigan View Post
Hopefully that barbarian hoard known as the third world will feel the crunch worst of all, and they will stop reproducing like rabbits.
WTF? Is that supposed to be a joke?
     
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May 28, 2008, 12:40 AM
 
Their birthrates are too high. Perhaps this food price rise will entice them to eat their children.
     
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May 28, 2008, 12:45 AM
 
WTF! Why should it be?

Over population is a bigger problem than AIDS, heart disease, and (if you believe in that sort of thing) global warming combined.

In less than five decades the global population went from 2.5 billion to 6 billion in the mid 1990s. That is a huge issue in the real world where there are limited resources to compete for. With life expectancy going up everywhere except here the planet will not be able to sustain the 10 billion predicted to be around by 2050.

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HackManDan
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May 28, 2008, 12:54 AM
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All of this has happened before and all of it will happen again.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
Captain Obvious
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May 28, 2008, 12:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by MacosNerd View Post

Then there's the fast food places, when I was growing up, I got to go to McDonnell's once in a blue moon as a treat. Now its a weekly or even a daily place for many people. Just see the movie super-size me to see the impact.
No one believes fast food is good for you and eating it regularly will lead to dietary issues but that movie is garbage. It is a Michael moore-style propaganda flick. If I ate $200 per plate five star french cuisine made of only the best ingredients for every meal as he did with McD I would have had the same results.
You simply can't eat any type of high calorie rich meal all the time. It is all bad for you at that level of excess. That stupid movie was grossly misleading.

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elyzabennet
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May 28, 2008, 01:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by Captain Obvious View Post
No one believes fast food is good for you and eating it regularly will lead to dietary issues but that movie is garbage. It is a Michael moore-style propaganda flick. If I ate $200 per plate five star french cuisine made of only the best ingredients for every meal as he did with McD I would have had the same results.
You simply can't eat any type of high calorie rich meal all the time. It is all bad for you at that level of excess. That stupid movie was grossly misleading.
Supersize Me was basing itself off of a judge who said that there was no proof that eating Mcdonalds everyday for a month was harmful. Morgan Spurlock says that in the first few minutes of the movie.

Oh, and by the way, many french people eat french cuisine made with good ingredients everyday, and they don't get fat the way Morgan Spurlock did in Supersize Me.
     
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May 28, 2008, 01:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by elyzabennet View Post
Oh, and by the way, many french people eat french cuisine made with good ingredients everyday, and they don't get fat the way Morgan Spurlock did in Supersize Me.
Clearly you've never had a 12 course classical haute French meal. That type of cuisine is not what any contemporary frenchman eats on a regular basis. Find a four or five star establishment that serves one of these meals, save up your pennies, and then come back and run your mouth.

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May 28, 2008, 02:17 AM
 
Originally Posted by Captain Obvious View Post
Over population is a bigger problem than AIDS, heart disease, and global warming combined.
...the planet will not be able to sustain the 10 billion predicted to be around by 2050.
What makes you think population is the problem? Consumption is the issue here. The world could sustain a high level of population if they behaved responsibly. If they behave like Americans, then you have a point - but it is the behavior, not the population per se that is the issue.
     
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May 28, 2008, 09:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by Captain Obvious View Post
Clearly you've never had a 12 course classical haute French meal. That type of cuisine is not what any contemporary frenchman eats on a regular basis. Find a four or five star establishment that serves one of these meals, save up your pennies, and then come back and run your mouth.
I don't disagree with you that Supersize Me was a propagandist, Moore-esque documentary. That being said, in the past (and in the case of your french 12-course meal), these kind of gluttonous, high calorie meals were expensive, and rare (as you said- a typical frenchman does not eat like this every day). Part of the problem with people's addiction to fast food/laziness to not cook their own, is that it is dirt cheap. The kind of caloric intake that was once reserved for an occasional "fancy meal" for most, is now available for $5.00 at your corner fast food joint.
     
Eug
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May 28, 2008, 10:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by Captain Obvious View Post
Clearly you've never had a 12 course classical haute French meal. That type of cuisine is not what any contemporary frenchman eats on a regular basis. Find a four or five star establishment that serves one of these meals, save up your pennies, and then come back and run your mouth.
A properly served multi-course meal doesn't have to stuff you silly. And it certainly doesn't have to be so heavily laden with fat and processed sugar. It's all about taking charge of your own diet, even when going to a restaurant. I've been to plenty of high-$ restaurants BTW, and have also been to many 10+ course banquets.

Now, it's quite possible that most people WILL overstuff themselves on such a meal (myself included), but really, just how much of the population does so on a regular basis? $150-200 a meal adds up pretty quickly. Most of the time I'd rather just go to the local Vietnamese restaurant or whatever and spend $8 on pho and soy milk.





OTOH, a large chunk of the population will instead go to McDonald's for a Big Mac, large fries, apple pie, and milk shake.



EDIT:

I was kinda curious what the caloric comparison would be.

Vietnamese fast food calories:
Large bowel of pho - 655 calories (with 11 grams of fat)
Soy milk (2 glasses) - 210 calories (with 8 grams of fat)
Total - 865 calories (with 19 grams of fat)

However, if I'm particularly hungry I might throw in two fresh rolls, at 82 calories and 0.7 g of fat each, so the total becomes 1029 calories, and 20 grams of fat. Add in some peanut sauce and we'll round things up to 1100 calories (and less than 25 grams of fat).


McDonald's calories:
Big Mac - 570 calories (with 32 grams of fat)
Large fries - 540 calories (with 26 grams of fat)
Apple pie - 260 calories (with 13 grams of fat)
Milk shake - 360 calories (with 9 grams of fat)
Total - 1730 calories (with 80 grams of fat)
( Last edited by Eug; May 28, 2008 at 11:18 AM. )
     
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May 28, 2008, 11:36 AM
 
I love the Pho. Thankfully we've got a decent Vietnamese place just around the corner.
     
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May 28, 2008, 03:23 PM
 
Tell me about pho. There are a number of Vietnamese restaurants in the area, and this looks appetizing. One Vietnamese restaurant is called "French Sandwiches" and they make great sandwiches and French Onion Soup. But I've never tried their Vietnamese items...

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Eug
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May 28, 2008, 03:27 PM
 
Vietnamese subs are damn good. Unfortunately, some of them have a fair amount of fat. Several types include fatty cold cuts and/or sausage, as well pate. That's OK though. They're not like those 1-inch thick roast beef sandwiches dripping with oily melted cheese you find at non-Vietnamese sub shops, so the Vietnamese ones still end up being much less calorie rich.

Dammit people. Now I'm hungry.
     
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May 28, 2008, 03:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
Tell me about pho.

One of the best things you can possibly eat. Pho is rich yet light at the same time. Spicy, deep, warm, a hint of sweetness.

From Wikipedia:

Phở (pronounced IPA: [fɤ̌˧˩˧] listen (help·info) in Vietnamese, written pho and typically pronounced United Kingdom: IPA: /fəː/, United States: IPA: /fə/[1]) is a traditional Vietnamese rice-noodle soup dish.

Ingredients and preparation

Phở is served as a bowl of white rice noodles in clear beef broth, with thin cuts of beef (steak, fatty flank, lean flank, brisket). Variations featuring tendon, tripe, meatballs, chicken leg, chicken breast, or other chicken organs (heart, liver, etc.) are also available.

[edit] Broth

The broth is generally made by simmering beef (and sometimes chicken) bones, oxtails, flank steak, charred onion, and spices, taking several hours to prepare. Seasonings include Saigon cinnamon, star anise, charred ginger, cloves, and sometimes black cardamom pods[2] .

[edit] Noodles

The noodles, called bánh phở in Vietnamese, are traditionally cut from wide sheets of fresh rice noodles similar to Chinese Shahe fen, although dried noodles (also called "rice sticks") may also be used.

[edit] Garnishes

The dish is garnished with ingredients such as green onions, white onions, coriander leaves (cilantro), ngò gai (culantro, or long coriander), Thai basil, lemon or lime wedges, and bean sprouts. The last five items are usually provided on a separate plate, which allows customers to adjust the soup's flavor as they like. Some sauces such as hoisin sauce, fish sauce, and the Thai hot sauce Sriracha, are popular additions as well. The herb ngò ôm (Limnophila aromatica) is sometimes added as well.

For the phở connoisseur, other garnishes which may be ordered on the side include hành trần (the white "bulb" portion of scallions, blanched in boiling broth) and hành giấm (sliced white onions with a dash of vinegar). These are only brought to the table when specifically requested, as opposed to the general platter of greens and lime wedges. The diner typically squeezes a few drops of lime juice onto the vinegared onion slices before eating them. The hành trần and hành giấm, when eaten with the beef slices, are believed to cut the fattiness and balance the strong beef aroma that some find overpowering.

[edit] Pronunciation

The Vietnamese word "phở" is properly pronounced with a falling-rising tone, as if asking a question. Its final vowel is not a long "o," but instead rhymes, at least to Anglophone ears, with the "u" in the English word "but". A more accurate way to produce this sound is to make an English /o/ sound but not round the lips. The "ph" is pronounced as an "f." The resulting pronunciation sounds like 'fuh?'.

[edit] Origins and regional differences

Phở originated in northern Vietnam and spread to southern and central Vietnam in the mid-1950s, after the defeat of the French and the eventual partitioning of the country. It is likely that phở came into being around 1910-1912, early enough in the new century. The communist government of North Vietnam forcibly closed many private phở businesses in the 1950s, opening government-run eateries in their place. Northern Vietnamese fleeing communist rule for South Vietnam introduced phở to their southern counterparts. Unlike in Hanoi in North Vietnam, the phở business flourished in South Vietnam, especially Saigon.[citation needed]

There are conflicting beliefs as to how phở came to be. Some believe it originated from French methods used in bouillon or consommé cooking. Oxen were valued work animals and were rarely eaten, but the arrival of the French had probably prompted servants to prepare a dish that suited the French palate. It is even said that phở came from the French beef stew dish pot-au-feu, with phở being a Vietnamization of the word feu. The broth for pot-au-feu, as it is for phở, is prepared with a bouquet garni containing spices such as cloves and black pepper. Another word for phở, used in Vietnam while Chinese was still the national written language, is hà phấn (河粉; Cantonese: ho4 fan2);[citation needed] the Chinese characters are the equivalent of the Chinese he fen, which comes from Shahe fen (沙河粉), the original name for the rice noodles originating in the town of Shahe, Guangdong.

Others believe that phở possible origins more likely lie in China. China had ruled over Vietnam for over a millennium and greatly influenced Vietnamese culture, including cuisine. Cooking ingredients used in phở, such as spices also seen in Chinese cooking (see five-spice powder and red cooking), as well as the use of rice noodles, are all Chinese influences.

With the arrival of anti-communist Vietnamese exiles and refugees (that is, hailing from South Vietnam) in the post-Vietnam War period, phở was also gradually introduced to Western countries, especially to France and the United States.There are also many phở restaurants in Australia and Canada, as these countries also received many Vietnamese refugees and immigrants. Vietnamese immigrants also brought phở noodles to the former Soviet bloc countries, including Russia, Poland and the Czech Republic.

There are several regional variants of phở in Vietnam, particularly divided between northern (Hanoi, called phở bắc or "northern phở"; or phở Hà Nội), central (Huế)[citation needed], and southern (Ho Chi Minh City/Saigon). One regional phở may be sweeter, and another variation may emphasize a bolder and spicier flavor[citation needed]. "Northern phở" tends to use somewhat wider noodles and green onions.photo 1photo 2 On the other hand, southern Vietnamese generally use thinner noodles[citation needed] (approximately the width of pad Thai or linguine noodles), and add bean sprouts and a greater variety of fresh herbs to their phở instead.
     
ghporter
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May 28, 2008, 03:38 PM
 
It sounds like a nice, hearty soup. By "spicy" are we talking about "lots of flavor" or "blow the back of your head off it's so hot"? I'm a more "flavor" kind of person and tend to be kind to my tastebuds...

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
Eug
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May 28, 2008, 03:41 PM
 
Crib notes:

Pho is a noodle soup, with a very light consomme-like beef broth, and usually containing very thinly sliced cuts of meat, and garnished with green onions and various herbs and spices, and usually fresh herbs, bean sprouts, and chilies on the side to add to taste.

Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
It sounds like a nice, hearty soup. By "spicy" are we talking about "lots of flavor" or "blow the back of your head off it's so hot"? I'm a more "flavor" kind of person and tend to be kind to my tastebuds...
Usually the soup itself is not spicy hot (although sometimes it is, depending on the kind). The restaurants always have various chili oils or chili sauces available for you to add though, and like I said, they may also provide fresh chilies too.

BTW, it's not particularly "hearty" as in stew type hearty. The broth is quite thin, and usually the meat in it (if you get a meat one that is) isn't a big volume. It's just healthy, with relatively high carbs (noodles), a small to moderate amount of protein, and not much fat.
     
paul w
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May 28, 2008, 03:42 PM
 
I love Pho. Love love love. Pity there aren't more Vietnamese in New York.

Also on the list is the nice big Ramen and Udon soups - I often have those for lunch. Yummy though a bit heartier. Then you got Congee.
     
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May 28, 2008, 05:17 PM
 
Now I am jonesing for a good pho. Some lime juice, some chillies, oh man. Instead I have to go for dinner with clients.
     
peeb
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May 28, 2008, 05:26 PM
 
Can't you take the clients to a Thai place?
     
ghporter
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May 28, 2008, 05:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
BTW, it's not particularly "hearty" as in stew type hearty. The broth is quite thin, and usually the meat in it (if you get a meat one that is) isn't a big volume. It's just healthy, with relatively high carbs (noodles), a small to moderate amount of protein, and not much fat.
It's the noodles and veggies in it (in the picture) that made me think "hearty," and I'm still thinking that. I like beef soups that are veggies and light stock (too heavy and it's too salty), especially if there's plenty of barley in it. Funny how two of my favorite things have lots of barley in 'em. I'll have to check it out. Soon.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
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May 28, 2008, 06:06 PM
 
The meat is quite thin. In fact it's often just sliced raw and thrown in the soup where it cooks instantly. The noodles are as light as noodles come and the vegetables are of the leafy kind. It's filling, as it's a big bowl, but not in a lasting kind of way.

The other viet fave was the bo bun, as it's known in Paris. Oooh man.
     
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May 28, 2008, 09:22 PM
 
Wanted to go for some pho today, but the GF wasn't interested. So I had black bean soup, parsnip-potato mash, veggies and ribs instead. Not a huge amount mind you, but I'm guessing my caloric intake for dinner with the beer thrown in was probably north of 1300 calories.
     
   
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