[Dakar²]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

Yes. It. Is.

You're just so much better than the rest of us that it's easy for you. Us normal people sometimes struggle with it.

No kidding. Unless you're isolated from all media the consumer culture is going to be shoved down your throat 24/7.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

Yes. It. Is.

You're just so much better than the rest of us that it's easy for you. Us normal people sometimes struggle with it.

You're saying I am better than you?!!? I'd have to seriously disagree with you. I assure you, I am extremely average.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Gossamer 

I put in 20 hours a week making $8.50 an hour. I've managed to save a good amount and I actually got an extra scholarship this year, but when I have to pay rent, car repairs, insurance, gas, food, etc all out of pocket, it doesn't go very far. Sure I could give up every spare moment and get a night job sometime but I know it would wear me out and my grades would plummet.

Bachelors in four years? Of course it's easy, if you're doing business, psychology, economics, design, etc. Not mechanical engineering. The vast majority stay at least one extra semester, if not two.

I am an industrial Technology Education student. That means I have to take all of the weed-out classes for most of the engineering fields. I also have a minor and education classes to take. As well as a full semester of intern teaching. Plus I have two children and a wife.

And I still think it's easy.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Uh…says the guy who's apparently rich enough to pay for school without taking out any loans or taking time out to work full-time.

Nope. I worked hard for what I have and didn't buy every little thing that popped up in front of my face growing up.

Rich. HA HA HA HA!!!!

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by moonmonkey 

Do you count a mortgage as debt?

Yes.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by torsoboy 

That's what I was thinking. If he can afford $50k in schooling (in less than four years apparently) without difficulty, he is not someone that most people can relate to.

Try saving a little bit of your money and not buying every little piece of hardware Apple introduces. It's really rather easy.

[Doofy]

RR speaketh the truth: He who buys every new gadget going will never be a wealthy man.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

Nope. I worked hard for what I have and didn't buy every little thing that popped up in front of my face growing up.

Rich. HA HA HA HA!!!!

Mathematically speaking, tens of thousands of dollars is tens of thousands of dollars no matter how much you work. Most students are so far from being able to afford it that it really doesn't matter if they buy "little things," because those things don't add up to the thousands upon thousands of extra dollars they need.

[andi*pandi]

another trick is to get a job where the company has an education benefit, then they will pay for your education. It does take longer working full-time however. My work is reimbursing me for the classes I take now that will be a certificate in a year. They want me to have these skills.

There is no way I could have saved up the money to pay for my undergrad ahead of time. Before college I was earning, like Gossamer, around $9/hr. That was a lot for the 80s. I had scholarships, my parents helped, and I worked summers and holidays and part time during school so my debt wasn't too bad, but still. I suppose I could have gone to a lesser school, but I think the quality of that school was worth it. The connections have also helped get my foot in the door for several jobs.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

(Last edited by andi*pandi : Today at 08:49 AM (Reason: 80s))

I blame the '80s when I mess up too.

[cSurfr]

It makes the world go round. . . just ask Jerry Maguire

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Mathematically speaking, tens of thousands of dollars is tens of thousands of dollars no matter how much you work. Most students are so far from being able to afford it that it really doesn't matter if they buy "little things," because those things don't add up to the thousands upon thousands of extra dollars they need.

Most students are convinced they need a college education too.

You want to know what I did that was so special?

I went to a community college and earned a 2 year drafting degree. Lived at home. Drove a crappy car. Owned a low-end computer.

I got a job as a draftsman, moved into a teeny apt., kept going to school full time and didn't buy anything I didn't NEED. Paid cash for everything. I did well in school so I had a few scholarships. Saved everything else. Drove a crappy car. Owned a low-end computer.

GM hired me because I test well, interview well, and had the experience they needed. Same old teeny apt. Saved even more cash. Drove a crappy car. Owned a low-end computer.

Got married, spent a fortune on a wedding. HUGE mistake. (Not the marriage, the expensive wedding.)

Paid cash for a house. No mortgage. Finally bought a average car. Bought a nicer computer.

Started furniture business.

Sold it at a profit because I bought a house no one else wanted and fixed it up.

Bought a better house with cash. No mortgage. Drove a crappy car. Owned a low-end computer.

Do you see a trend?

Quit job with nice severance package.

Started photo business. Bought a MacBook.

Paying cash for school, living off savings and wife's income. Driving a crappy car.

Also, I donated more than 10% of everything I owned.

You know what? It was easy. But I have a small amount of self control.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

You're saying I am better than you?!!? I'd have to seriously disagree with you. I assure you, I am extremely average.

I don't know whether to or

It was sarcasm. Believe me, I would never imply in earnest that you are better than anyone else.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

I don't know whether to or

It was sarcasm. Believe me, I would never imply in earnest that you are better than anyone else.

I don't know whether to or

It was sarcasm. Believe me, I would never really imply I was average.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

Believe me, I would never really imply I was average.

Now, THAT I can believe.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

Now, THAT I can believe.

I don't know whether to or

It was sarcasm. Believe me, I don't care.

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

Most students are convinced they need a college education too.

You want to know what I did that was so special?

I went to a community college and earned a 2 year drafting degree. Lived at home. Drove a crappy car. Owned a low-end computer.

I got a job as a draftsman, moved into a teeny apt., kept going to school full time and didn't buy anything I didn't NEED. Paid cash for everything. I did well in school so I had a few scholarships. Saved everything else. Drove a crappy car. Owned a low-end computer.

GM hired me because I test well, interview well, and had the experience they needed. Same old teeny apt. Saved even more cash. Drove a crappy car. Owned a low-end computer.

Got married, spent a fortune on a wedding. HUGE mistake. (Not the marriage, the expensive wedding.)

Paid cash for a house. No mortgage. Finally bought a average car. Bought a nicer computer.

Started furniture business.

Sold it at a profit because I bought a house no one else wanted and fixed it up.

Bought a better house with cash. No mortgage. Drove a crappy car. Owned a low-end computer.

Do you see a trend?

Quit job with nice severance package.

Started photo business. Bought a MacBook.

Paying cash for school, living off savings and wife's income. Driving a crappy car.

Also, I donated more than 10% of everything I owned.

You know what? It was easy. But I have a small amount of self control.

Wow, you definately made sacrifices. I think most find it hard to make any sacrifices and instead make up little excuses as to why they "need" this or that. Long after the lusted for item is worn out and forgotten--you're still paying for it. The fact that you didn't have a lot of possessions probably also meant you didn't have a lot of distractions while in school either.

I did notice however, two major money saving items in your strategy that are the result of circumstance and not self control. The first is the fact that you lived at home while at community college--not everyone is permitted to do that. The second is that you had a spouse that could partially support you while furthered your education--and not everyone has a spouse.

I don't point those things out to diminish the sacrifices you made but only to suggest there are sometimes legitimate, non-materialistic reasons for debt.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Zeeb 

Wow, you definately made sacrifices. I think most find it hard to make any sacrifices and instead make up little excuses as to why they "need" this or that. Long after the lusted for item is worn out and forgotten--you're still paying for it. The fact that you didn't have a lot of possessions probably also meant you didn't have a lot of distractions while in school either.

Indeed.

Originally Posted by Zeeb 

I did notice however, two major money saving items in your strategy that are the result of circumstance and not self control. The first is the fact that you lived at home while at community college--not everyone is permitted to do that.

I moved out of the house when I was 19. If a person can't live at home until they're 20 then there are greater issues than debt.

Originally Posted by Zeeb 

The second is that you had a spouse that could partially support you while furthered your education--and not everyone has a spouse.

If I wasn't married or had kids I'd have it even easier. My spouse is only working because she wants to. We don't need her income.

Originally Posted by Zeeb 

I don't point those things out to diminish the sacrifices you made but only to suggest there are sometimes legitimate, non-materialistic reasons for debt.

There are rare legitimate excuses for debt. I'll concede health care costs. But that's about it. Any other excuse for debt is simply "want".

[andi*pandi]

Railroader, I think you have to admit that your circumstances at present (making out well with a good retirement package) are not equal to most college students. It's like saying everyone should just drop out of college and become a millionaire because Bill Gates did it.

And you must have made out very very well! Good luck with the teaching, it's a good thing you have that basket of nest eggs. (husband is a teacher)

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

Railroader, I think you have to admit that your circumstances at present (making out well with a good retirement package) are not equal to most college students. It's like saying everyone should just drop out of college and become a millionaire because Bill Gates did it.

And you must have made out very very well! Good luck with the teaching, it's a good thing you have that basket of nest eggs. (husband is a teacher)

I was financially independent and would be doing far better had I kept my job and not quit.

I am far from a millionaire. Just not yoked with debt.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

I am an industrial Technology Education student.

Oh yeah, one of the ITE reps came and talked to one of my ME orientation courses my sophomore year. About 90% of their students are ME dropouts.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Gossamer 

Oh yeah, one of the ITE reps came and talked to one of my ME orientation courses my sophomore year. About 90% of their students are ME dropouts.

You have no idea what Industrial Technology Education is, do you?

I'll give you a hint, they are teaching your engineering courses.

[gururafiki]

While wealth is not that important to me (I'm a teacher) I would still be happy with more money if it ever came my way.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

You have no idea what Industrial Technology Education is, do you?

I'll give you a hint, they are teaching your engineering courses.

I'm pretty sure the 'Dr.' before their names, and the 'Mechanical Engineering' printed on their diplomas means they've done a bit more than ITE.

[andi*pandi]

are you sure you aren't mixing up ITT technical institute with the ITE degree?

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Gossamer 

I'm pretty sure the 'Dr.' before their names, and the 'Mechanical Engineering' printed on their diplomas means they've done a bit more than ITE.

Give it up. You're making yourself look like a fool.

BTW: read andi*pandi's post.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

are you sure you aren't mixing up ITT technical institute with the ITE degree?

Me? I'm sure. There's a separate program here at ISU for Industrial Tech/Education. A lot of MEs end up in that program. And all of the professors for my engineering courses have PhDs in ME.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Gossamer 

Me? I'm sure. There's a separate program here at ISU for Industrial Tech/Education. A lot of MEs end up in that program. And all of the professors for my engineering courses have PhDs in ME.

Sorry you have such a sorry Industrial Tech. program at your school. Most people at my university are too scared to take Industrial Tech. Ed at WMU. There are about 12 people in the program. ME candidates are a dime a dozen.

Just remember, you can't spell unemployment without ME.

[torsoboy]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

Most students are convinced they need a college education too.

You want to know what I did that was so special?

I went to a community college and earned a 2 year drafting degree. Lived at home. Drove a crappy car. Owned a low-end computer.

I got a job as a draftsman, moved into a teeny apt., kept going to school full time and didn't buy anything I didn't NEED. Paid cash for everything. I did well in school so I had a few scholarships. Saved everything else. Drove a crappy car. Owned a low-end computer.

GM hired me because I test well, interview well, and had the experience they needed. Same old teeny apt. Saved even more cash. Drove a crappy car. Owned a low-end computer.

Got married, spent a fortune on a wedding. HUGE mistake. (Not the marriage, the expensive wedding.)

Paid cash for a house. No mortgage. Finally bought a average car. Bought a nicer computer.

Started furniture business.

Sold it at a profit because I bought a house no one else wanted and fixed it up.

Bought a better house with cash. No mortgage. Drove a crappy car. Owned a low-end computer.

Do you see a trend?

Quit job with nice severance package.

Started photo business. Bought a MacBook.

Paying cash for school, living off savings and wife's income. Driving a crappy car.

Also, I donated more than 10% of everything I owned.

You know what? It was easy. But I have a small amount of self control.

So how long were you saving in your teeny apartment before you paid cash for your house, had a HUGE wedding, and bought a decent car?

Right now a cheap house can't be found for less than $130k where I am at (2 bedroom, 1 bath, manufactured home), a huge wedding would cost $15k-$20k, and a decent car would cost $15k-$20k. So all in all to pay cash for everything would require a college student to have $160k-$170k to do what you did. Say a person was making $30k a year (very improbable for most college students), and after taxes he brings home $24k. In the scenario that he didn't have to spend ANYTHING on food, gas, rent, dates, etc. it would take this person seven full years to save that up. If he did have to pay bills and it left him with an extra $600 a month (which is sometimes hard for a college student to have remaining) it would take him 283 years to save that much money. Now tell us again how this is possible? Seems to me like there is something you aren't telling us.

Since you are retired at this point I can understand that a new house might have only cost $15-25k when you were a young buck, and a new car might have only cost $7k, and rent was probably only a couple hundred bucks. The times have changed, and that situation is no longer possible.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by torsoboy 

a decent car would cost $15k-$20k.

Eh, I got a Maxima for $5k. It's not too shabby.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by torsoboy 

So how long were you saving in your teeny apartment before you paid cash for your house, had a HUGE wedding, and bought a decent car?

From when I was 19 to 27 years old I lived in tiny apts.

Originally Posted by torsoboy 

Right now a cheap house can't be found for less than $130k where I am at (2 bedroom, 1 bath, manufactured home)

My house is worth about $120k. there are a few around here to be had for ~$100k that are worth fixing up.

My first house was $60k in 1998. I sold it in 2002 for $90k. I bought a house that only need a little cosmetic work, I did a lot of work myself.

Originally Posted by torsoboy 

a huge wedding would cost $15k-$20k,

My wedding and honeymoon cost $12k. I didn't say it was huge. I said expensive.

Originally Posted by torsoboy 

and a decent car would cost $15k-$20k.

You can get a decent car for about $3k

Originally Posted by torsoboy 

So all in all to pay cash for everything would require a college student to have $160k-$170k to do what you did.

Nope. You just have bad math and bad expectations of what people "need".

Originally Posted by torsoboy 

Say a person was making $30k a year (very improbable for most college students), and after taxes he brings home $24k. In the scenario that he didn't have to spend ANYTHING on food, gas, rent, dates, etc. it would take this person seven full years to save that up. If he did have to pay bills and it left him with an extra $600 a month (which is sometimes hard for a college student to have remaining) it would take him 283 years to save that much money. Now tell us again how this is possible? Seems to me like there is something you aren't telling us.

Ever heard of investing.

And $30k is easy to make these days. You'll have to work more than 40 hours a week, and taht scares a lot of lazy people off.

Originally Posted by torsoboy 

Since you are retired at this point I can understand that a new house might have only cost $15-25k when you were a young buck,

I am retired at 35 years old. I was 34 when I officially retired. I am still a "young buck".

Originally Posted by torsoboy 

and a new car might have only cost $7k, and rent was probably only a couple hundred bucks. The times have changed, and that situation is no longer possible.

HA HA!!

It's entirely possible. You may be blind to it or too lazy to achieve it, but I assure you, it's easy.

My cousin just finished his Bachelor's from Michigan State University debt free, has a job with the campus police dept., and is getting ready to close on a house he is paying cash for. And he still will have $10K in his Roth IRA.

Take of the blinders and stop listening to society.

[wolfen]

If you have a job, a computer, etc. in the western world, you are already wealthy by nearly any statistic - current and historic.

Congrats. You've arrived.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by wolfen 

If you have a job, a computer, etc. in the western world, you are already wealthy by nearly any statistic - current and historic.

Congrats. You've arrived.

I don't know how true it is, but it's kidna appropriate:

I'll just warn you once, turn your speakers off. If the World were 100 people

If the world were 100 people

There would be:

57 Asians
21 Europeans
14 from North and South America
8 Africans
52 would be female
48 would be male
70 would be nonwhite, 30 white
59% of the entire world's wealth would belong to only 6 people
and all 6 would be citizens of the United States
80 would live in substandard housing
70 would be unable to read
50 would suffer from malnutrition
1 would be near death
1 would be near birth
Only 1 would have a college education
99 of them will not see this message,
because only 1 would have a computer.

[torsoboy]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

From when I was 19 to 27 years old I lived in tiny apts.

My house is worth about $120k. there are a few around here to be had for ~$100k that are worth fixing up.

My first house was $60k in 1998. I sold it in 2002 for $90k. I bought a house that only need a little cosmetic work, I did a lot of work myself.

My wedding and honeymoon cost $12k. I didn't say it was huge. I said expensive.

You can get a decent car for about $3k

Okay, so using your numbers that means you saved $75k in eight years. That's pretty impressive... now try doing it while going to school full time and making $8.50 an hour at your job.

Originally Posted by Railroader 

Nope. You just have bad math and bad expectations of what people "need".

Ever heard of investing.

And $30k is easy to make these days. You'll have to work more than 40 hours a week, and taht scares a lot of lazy people off.

I am retired at 35 years old. I was 34 when I officially retired. I am still a "young buck".

Bad math? Let's see... $130k+20k+20k = $170k, yep I think that's right. Maybe you could check it though. And I wasn't talking about what people "need", I was giving numbers for what you said you bought with cash.

Yeah, $30k a year isn't too hard to do when your out of school, but I think this whole thing started by someone asking something about paying taking out loans for school.

Originally Posted by Railroader

It's entirely possible. You may be blind to it or too lazy to achieve it, but I assure you, it's easy.

My cousin just finished his Bachelor's from Michigan State University debt free, has a job with the campus police dept., and is getting ready to close on a house he is paying cash for. And he still will have $10K in his Roth IRA.

Take of the blinders and stop listening to society.

Hahaha... yeah, I'm sure he made enough working for the campus police to pay off an entire house in four years, plus have $10k in Roth IRA, plus pay for all his living expenses. I think you forgot to mention that you both just inherited a large sum of money.

I have never said anything about what I make, so don't worry too much about my blinders or what I listen to. I'm doing just fine.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

And $30k is easy to make these days. You'll have to work more than 40 hours a week, and taht scares a lot of lazy people off.

Pish, those lazy students who don't want to work 100+ hours a week.

[wolfen]

The only matter I would like to raise in the distasteful debate taking place is that life is not as simple for everyone.

As an example, I work with foster kids. Due to abuse, neglect, a horrifying inner city school system, and repeated foster home hopping, they are some extremely challenged people. They are typically 1-3 years behind their peers developmentally -- and by their peers I mean inner city youth in underperforming schools. It's bad.

Now toss in the fact that at 18 the state kicks them out on their own, whether or not they have savings, a job, mental health problems, etc. Remember, they are typically functioning at a 15-17 year old level at this point. Last, just for kicks, recognize that racism is alive and well in the US, and that their prospects are diminished despite dreams to the contrary.

We are not talking about a small group of people. My state has thousands of them. California emancipates 4000+ each year. And remember -- foster kids are the ones who were actually saved from bad situations. They have access to money and support that aren't given to the ones who never got rescued. The truth is that millions remain wallowing in dire circumstances, and will be spit out onto the street in a sink or swim situation with weights pre-installed to their limbs.

I'm not disputing that intelligent people can do well with little. True enough. I was fortunate enough to be in that boat, as well. But we must never discount that there are real struggles faced by people that are not overcome with simple demonstrations of self discipline.

Anyone (such as Railroader and myself) should be grateful for what we have and not pretend that we did it all ourselves. There was a helluva lot of luck (or God) involved.

That is all.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Pish, those lazy students who don't want to work 100+ hours a week.

wimps.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by torsoboy 

Okay, so using your numbers that means you saved $75k in eight years. That's pretty impressive...

No it's not. It should be standard. It's sad that you think it's impressive.

Originally Posted by torsoboy 

now try doing it while going to school full time and making $8.50 an hour at your job.

I took 18 credit hours sometimes while working 50+ hours per week, You're just lazy and expect other people to be as well.

And why the hell would anyone work for $8.50/hr. McDonalds pays more than that.

Originally Posted by torsoboy 

Bad math? Let's see... $130k+20k+20k = $170k, yep I think that's right. Maybe you could check it though. And I wasn't talking about what people "need", I was giving numbers for what you said you bought with cash.

You made up numbers to suit your intentions. The truth hurts you too much.

Originally Posted by torsoboy 

Yeah, $30k a year isn't too hard to do when your out of school, but I think this whole thing started by someone asking something about paying taking out loans for school.

$30k is easy while in school too. Just because you are afraid of work doesn't mean others are.

Originally Posted by torsoboy 

Hahaha... yeah, I'm sure he made enough working for the campus police to pay off an entire house in four years, plus have $10k in Roth IRA, plus pay for all his living expenses.

His house is no mansion, but it's paid for. All he has to do is pay the utilities and property taxes.

Originally Posted by torsoboy 

I think you forgot to mention that you both just inherited a large sum of money.

Sorry to burst your fantasy. Reality is, I worked hard to be where I am today.

Originally Posted by torsoboy 

I have never said anything about what I make, so don't worry too much about my blinders or what I listen to. I'm doing just fine.

I just hope you aren't an example of the youth of today.

[gargamel123]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

And why the hell would anyone work for $8.50/hr. McDonalds pays more than that.

Must be nice to live in an area where Mcdonalds pays more than that. Where I'm at $6.50 is the standard rate and that is only because min. wage went up here. Before the normal rate everywhere was 5.15. Where I work I get paid 7.20/hr and that is one of the higher wages in the store. I'm glad you can work so many hours through school but it all depends on majors if one can do it. If I wasn't in a science related major with labs all day long I would be able to work more hours. If you are in a major where you have no labs I don't want to hear that everyone is capable of this. I have classes where I have to spend an extra 10-20 hours per week in the lab just to get all the work done. Since buildings are only open during the week and until around 10pm then it really reduces hours I can work. Everything where I'm at closes around 8 or 9 as it is.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

And why the hell would anyone work for $8.50/hr. McDonalds pays more than that....You made up numbers to suit your intentions. The truth hurts you too much.

Oh, the irony.
Yahoo! Answers - starting wages working at mcdonald's in michigan?

Starting wages working at mcdonald's in michigan?
In the state of Michigan the minimum wage is $6.95 per hour; however it will increase to $7.15 per hour starting on July 1, 2007. These are the minimums required by the state but you could make more depending on the company worked for....when you apply try asking for $7.30 so that you remain a bit above the minimum.

and where I'm at:
COMMENTARY: CLASS CLASH - Hot Topics

A representative of the McDonald's Restaurants Business Office in Ames told me the starting wage for a counter worker in an Ames McDonald's is $6.50 an hour.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Gossamer 

Oh, the irony.
Yahoo! Answers - starting wages working at mcdonald's in michigan?

How is that ironic?

Originally Posted by Gossamer 

and where I'm at:
COMMENTARY: CLASS CLASH - Hot Topics

Whatevar![/CARTMAN]

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by gargamel123 

Must be nice to live in an area where Mcdonalds pays more than that. Where I'm at $6.50 is the standard rate and that is only because min. wage went up here. Before the normal rate everywhere was 5.15. Where I work I get paid 7.20/hr and that is one of the higher wages in the store. I'm glad you can work so many hours through school but it all depends on majors if one can do it. If I wasn't in a science related major with labs all day long I would be able to work more hours. If you are in a major where you have no labs I don't want to hear that everyone is capable of this. I have classes where I have to spend an extra 10-20 hours per week in the lab just to get all the work done. Since buildings are only open during the week and until around 10pm then it really reduces hours I can work. Everything where I'm at closes around 8 or 9 as it is.

Actually, in a few cities around here they pay $9+/hr.

Keep making excuses. Just like everyone else who is lazy.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

How is that ironic? You need a better education.



Sucks to be you.

Just keep being lazy and spending your time on a forum, instead of working, like I would have done at your age.

Just keep owing. It actually makes me more money.

This is like arguing with Rob minus most of the profanity.

[gargamel123]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

Actually, in a few cities around here they pay $9+/hr.

must be nice to live in a bubble

[Gamoe]

Railroader, though I commend you on your financial determination and self-control, I don't think anyone here appreciates your arrogance. You shouldn't be as quick to judge others when you really have no idea of their situations.

Where I live, minimum wage is $6.67 and property in particular is more expensive than in most of the country. A small one-person efficiency costs the same to rent as a family-sized apartment in many parts of the country.

Insurance costs are much higher also, due to hurricanes and floods. There are many immigrants here, both legal and illegal (my parents are luckily the former) and it's not the same thing to start out new in this country, or to be a first (or even second generation in some cases) than to have been established here for many generations.

That said, there are many successful immigrants here, particularly Cubans (such as my parents), but it's not easy and you can't pretend that your situation is akin to every person's, or that the only reason people end up owing large amounts of money is laziness or lack of self-control. That's just a very limited and self-centered view on your part.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by gargamel123 

must be nice to live in a bubble

I have no idea what you mean.

Originally Posted by Gamoe 

Railroader, though I commend you on your financial determination and self-control, I don't think anyone here appreciates your arrogance. You shouldn't be as quick to judge others when you really have no idea of their situations.

I only "judge" when presented with stupid comments. When someone complains about being in debt and having to take loans from school and then I see them spend an hour or more on here a day I tend to reserve my sympathy.

Now if someone were to tell me they have to work 60 hours a week and still have to take a loan out for school, then I am a little more understanding.

Originally Posted by Gossamer 

This is like arguing with Rob minus most of the profanity.

I hear ya.

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

I only "judge" when presented with stupid comments. When someone complains about being in debt and having to take loans from school and then I see them spend an hour or more on here a day I tend to reserve my sympathy.

...And that is called judging. If you think you can judge an individual's financial responsibility and working etiquette based on him being an hour or more on a forum, then your problem is clear.

[Gossamer]

FYI the vast majority of my 3500+ posts are made AT work. I have a job on campus that I can walk to between classes. Find me a McDonald's that can do that for me, while providing me with work that I enjoy, and not making me smell like crap afterwards. Because of this I'm on campus in class/work from 8 to 4 or 5 every day. Then at least three nights a week I have church stuff. If I resigned myself to 6 hours of sleep per night (my body likes more) and one meal per day, I could probably free up an extra 20 or 25 hours each week to work. But that would mean I wouldn't have a moment to myself, I'd be ragged because of lack of sleep, and my schoolwork would most likely take a hit.

Don't get me wrong, I am in no way trying to belittle you or what you've done. I'm not glad that I'm in debt, and what you did is impressive. All I'm saying is that due to my life situation, my location, my body, and my career goals, this is the situation that works for me. I just wish that you could recognize that.

[gargamel123]

You are in an economic bubble because not everywhere is like where you live. In many areas of the country wages are much lower. Like I said where I'm at (Missouri) wages were started, just about everywhere, at 5.15/hr. Recently the min. wage went to $6.50 and now that is what most places pay except the university they still pay the fed. min. wage.

I work around 30-35 hours per week and still take out loans. That is close to full time which is about the max I can work at that place. By the time I get off the only place open in Mc. Donalds and I really don't want to work there around all the grease. I have had enough problems with my skin and don't need to be exposed to pore clogging grease.

I do find it hard to work so many hours with the type of classes I'm taking. I would like to see someone else take Mineralogy, Petrology, Chemistry II and Physics I while working 30+ hours. I don't think you could do it railroader. What is your major area of study? I get the feeling you are in a major that requires minimal work.

I don't complain about taking out loans about half of my schooling is paid for through grants and scholarships. The main reason for this is I'm a science major and money is floating around for any science major. I still have a substantial amount in loans since it costs me about 10k per semester. It also didn't help that I changed my major in my senior year of school from graphic design to geology. I went from something that I prefer to stay a hobby to something I would love to do as a job.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by gargamel123 

What is your major area of study? I get the feeling you are in a major that requires minimal work.

He's already mentioned it in this thread, and it sounds as if it's a good deal of work.