[besson3c]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

Oh, I think we agree on more than you think…

Ahhh, you like to play devil's advocate more than you let on?

[TheWOAT]

The Comeback Id: Politics & Power: vanityfair.com
Article basically slams Bill Clinton.

Over the last few years, aides have winced at repeated tabloid reports about Clinton’s episodic friendship and occasional dinners out with Belinda Stronach, a twice-divorced billionaire auto-parts heiress and member of the Canadian Parliament 20 years his junior, or at more recent high-end Hollywood dinner-party gossip that Clinton has been seen visiting with the actress Gina Gershon in California. There has been talk of a female friend in Chappaqua, a woman in a bar at a meeting of the Aspen Institute, and a public sighting of Clinton, Bing, and a ravishing entourage in a New York elevator that, a former Clinton aide told me, led a business leader who saw them to say: I don’t know what the guy was doing, but it was so clear that it was just no good.

None of these wisps of smoke have produced a public fire. But four former Clinton aides told me that, about 18 months ago, one of the president’s former assistants, who still advises him on political matters, had heard so many complaints about such reports from Clinton supporters around the country that he felt compelled to try to conduct what one of these aides called an “intervention,” because, the aide believed, “Clinton was apparently seeing a lot of women on the road.”

lol. Now I really want Hillary to get elected. Just to see the circus that ensues when Bill is caught with another chic or two and Hillary tries to act surprised and disappointed in a news conference.

[Eug]

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I'm not sure how this is in response to my post about teachers, but I do agree with this...

Sorry, thought this thread was about Clinton.

WRT education, many of the problems have to do with budgets and the way administrators handle them. Here's a true example: My mother was a teacher in this county for 10 years after earning a BA and MA in Special Education (she works with severely emotionally handicapped kids). My dad's job moved them away for a few years and then he quit and they moved back. She went to apply to the school system here, but they wouldn't hire her because it would be too expensive (she now had a Master's and 15 years of teaching experience) compared to someone with just a BA and no experience. Which teacher do you think the parents would choose (ignoring the fact that these kids are emotionally handicapped because they have lousy parents)? I've talked to some other people in the school system here, and that type of thing is common - choosing cheap over education and experience.

(She now drives to another county that hired her because they had a teacher shortage and didn't have a cheaper person to use. However, she's not using any of her education or experience, as she's teaching "normal" kids, so her specific talents are largely being wasted.)

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Wow, I just now noticed that ol' Bill has bitch-tits.

[peeb]

Originally Posted by wallinbl 

Which teacher do you think the parents would choose (ignoring the fact that these kids are emotionally handicapped because they have lousy parents)? I've talked to some other people in the school system here, and that type of thing is common - choosing cheap over education and experience.

If that's a serious question, it depends. Many places voters keep striking down education funding - I doubt the school board would have done this were they not under severe funding restrictions.

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by peeb 

Many places voters keep striking down education funding

A problem that democracies face - selfish and shortsighted populations. My neighbor is against increasing school funding, but he didn't used to be. Know what changed? His kids are all out of high school now.

[peeb]

A good reason to give kids the vote. They are the last major group to remain disenfranchised.

[TheWOAT]

Until inanimate objects get their rights.

Hillary wont quit until she gets her money back.

[subego]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

Wow, I just now noticed that ol' Bill has bitch-tits.

You're supposed to cock-block before the other guy scores.

[Chongo]

Clinton set to concede delegate race to Obama - Yahoo! News

By BETH FOUHY, Associated Press Writer 15 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Hillary Rodham Clinton will concede Tuesday night that Barack Obama has the delegates to secure the Democratic nomination, campaign officials said, effectively ending her bid to be the nation's first female president.

Superdelegates surge to Obama - Mike Allen - Politico.com

By MIKE ALLEN | 6/3/08 11:04 AM EST Updated: 6/3/08 12:25 PM EST
Text Size:

A tsunami of superdelegates is poised to rush to Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) over the next 12 hours, giving him a mathematical lock on his party’s presidential nomination.

The superdelegate surge is likely to swamp a few holdouts within the camp of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) who have been resisting a prompt concession.

Aides say Clinton does not plan to concede or bid supporters farewell when she speaks in New York tonight, but instead will salute her supporters and argue for the strength of her candidacy.

[Dakar the Fourth]

I also read the campaign denied that she would concede.

[Chongo]

AP TALLY: OBAMA CLINCHES
To paraphrase Howard Cosell

Down goes Clinton, Down goes Clinton

AP tally: Obama clinches Democratic nomination

WASHINGTON (AP) - Barack Obama effectively clinched the Democratic presidential nomination Tuesday, based on an Associated Press tally of convention delegates, becoming the first black candidate ever to lead his party into a fall campaign for the White House.

[paul w]

She's going to concede

Aaaand that's a wrap. See y'all over at the Hussein and McCain threads. It's been fun!

edit: didn't notice Homer had called it already. Ah well, on to the big show!

[wallinbl]

Clinton not ready to concede race, her campaign chair says - CNN.com

She's not going to concede.

[besson3c]

wallinbi: he said that she won't concede until Obama is declared mathematical victor, which hasn't officially happened yet, but will later tonight or tomorrow.

[Zeeb]

If she can't make her case to the superdelegates and still believes she has the popular vote--does anyone think there is a chance she could break with the Democratic party and run independently?

[Chuckit]

Joining all the reports together: It sounds like Hillary is going to concede, but she isn't going to call it "conceding" because she's hypercompetitive to the point of obsession.

[paul w]

Maybe the leak was folks on the campaign tired of working themselves into the ground for a meaningless fight.

Maybe Bill just wants his wife back.

I dunno, we'll just have to wait and see....

[tie]

Originally Posted by Zeeb 

If she can't make her case to the superdelegates and still believes she has the popular vote--does anyone think there is a chance she could break with the Democratic party and run independently?

No. She's wealthy, but not that wealthy. Running as an independent costs much more, hundreds of millions, and without the Democratic fundraising apparatus she couldn't raise it. A failed run would kill her political future, too, whereas conceding now and supporting Obama lets her try again another day.

[TheWOAT]

Originally Posted by paul w 

Maybe the leak was folks on the campaign tired of working themselves into the ground for a meaningless fight.

Maybe Bill just wants his wife back.

I dunno, we'll just have to wait and see....

Yeah, I bet.

[besson3c]

There are reports that she would be open to a VP spot. I'm starting to think that that's exactly what will happen...

[olePigeon]

I was hoping for General Clark as VP.

[Shaddim]

Obama doesn't want Bill as a VP, end of story.

[TheWOAT]

Senate majority leader Harry Reid said that Obama should NOT choose another Senator as a running mate... I agree. Im guessing it will be a Southerner, with military experience.

[peeb]

I think the days of old school ticket balancing are pretty much over.

[smacintush]

Obama HAS mentioned Tom Daschle in a conversation about VP's. I hope he picks him. Nothing says "change" like a tired old douche-bag of a nearly 30 year politician.

[Mithras]

Wow, I really thought that Clinton would concede last night. Even less classy than I had suspected.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Mithras 

Wow, I really thought that Clinton would concede last night. Even less classy than I had suspected.

Well it's a pretty close victory and there is plenty of time for Obama to shoot himself in the foot. It ain't over 'till the convention.

[paul w]

She has a compelling argument in that he'll need her support ot win it - especially in the swing states she won in the primaries.

But watching both of their speeches, it was painfully clear who the winner was, and why I'm glad it's not her.

[Luca Rescigno]

I think she will probably wait at least a day for the hubbub surrounding Obama's victory to subside, so that when she does concede, it'll be in the spotlight rather than off to the side.

[Shaddim]

Ya think Obama and Hillary mentioned Israel enough times in today's speeches?

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

Well it's a pretty close victory and there is plenty of time for Obama to shoot himself in the foot. It ain't over 'till the convention.

It was mentioned in another thread that "there a tape of one of the Obamas using the word "whitey""

It's a hoax

[wallinbl]

YouTube - Monty Python: Not Dead Yet

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by paul w 

She has a compelling argument in that he'll need her support ot win it - especially in the swing states she won in the primaries.

I'm not sure how. Is she saying, "Those people voted for me only because they hate Obama so passionately?" That's the only way it seems likely that they'd vote for Hillary in the primary but not vote for Obama in the election. If that's the case, wouldn't they rather vote for McCain even if Hillary is up for VP?

[Mithras]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Ya think Obama and Hillary mentioned Israel enough times in today's speeches?

Weren't they both addressing AIPAC? That would be a good reason.

[spacefreak]

Originally Posted by paul w 

She has a compelling argument in that he'll need her support ot win it - especially in the swing states she won in the primaries.

She also has the compelling argument of having won the popular vote, even when giving all Michigan's "uncommitted" votes to Obama.

I guess popular vote doesn't count in the Democrat party anymore. So much for the big stink over the 2000 election.

And how 'bout them Democrats counting Michigan and Florida votes as 1/2? That's even worse than the old method of counting each black person as 3/5.

Obama will get schooled if he takes McCain up on the town hall tour initiative. I bet he won't, because his people know he's a nightmare when off teleprompter.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by spacefreak 

She also has the compelling argument of having won the popular vote.

Except she hasn't, and even if she has, it's absolutely meaningless.

[spacefreak]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Except she hasn't, and even if she has, it's absolutely meaningless.

As per the Democrat rules, along with the Dean rules, you're right. Democrats do not care about the popular vote.

Nobody knows she won the popular vote because it's not part of the Obama narrative, and the if it's not in the narrative, mass media will not cover it. It's as if it is a secret. But yes, when all the votes are tallied, Hillary won more.

You have an illegitimate candidate who was selected, not elected. And he's a nightmare without his speechwriters. I'm sure his people will duck the McCain town hall idea, or at least add so many conditions to the events so that Obama's ignorance is not exposed. Sort of how Obama refused to debate Clinton after the one and only national broadcast debate in Philadelphia.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by spacefreak 

She also has the compelling argument of having won the popular vote

Not unless you count states that didn't hold legitimate primaries. If anything we decide to call a primary counts whether or not we follow the rules for holding one, count in an extra 5 million votes for Obama from me.

[spacefreak]

Those primaries were 100% legitimate and legal. Both states knew there was a primary, all the polling places were staffed and operating, and 1.7 million Democrats cast a vote. State election boards certified the results, and they've been signed into record. There's absolutely nothing illegitimate about that.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by spacefreak 

As per the Democrat rules, along with the Dean rules, you're right. Democrats do not care about the popular vote.

Nobody knows she won the popular vote because it's not part of the Obama narrative, and the if it's not in the narrative, mass media will not cover it. It's as if it is a secret. But yes, when all the votes are tallied, Hillary won more.

You have an illegitimate candidate who was selected, not elected. And he's a nightmare without his speechwriters. I'm sure his people will duck the McCain town hall idea, or at least add so many conditions to the events so that Obama's ignorance is not exposed. Sort of how Obama refused to debate Clinton after the one and only national broadcast debate in Philadelphia.

I repeat: she did NOT win the popular vote. Her tally does not account for caucus states, and even then this is a very problematic claim due to some states/districts not releasing caucus state vote totals, some states were open while others were closed, and independent registered voters are handled differently. Republicans don't care about the popular vote totals in the primaries either because they are meaningless - I repeat: meaningless.

Obama writes many, if not all of his own speeches, not that this matters to you. I'm sure you'll find something else for you and your gut feelings to cling to.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by spacefreak 

Those primaries were 100% legitimate and legal. Both states knew there was a primary, all the polling places were staffed and operating, and 1.7 million Democrats cast a vote. State election boards certified the results, and they've been signed into record. There's absolutely nothing illegitimate about that.

Are you really not aware of the circumstances? Haven't these been drilled into us by every media outlet, every story relating to the primary delegate count, etc.? Care to address this? Your gut feeling is predictable enough that we don't need to be reminded of it.

[Chuckit]

If you're going to ignore the rules a primary has to follow, sure. Just like my script that just printed "I VOTE FOR OBAMA" 5 million times. It's totally legitimate if you don't count the rules.

Oh, wait, I think I'm going to have Ronald Reagan beat Hillary in the Democratic primary too. Give me a second to modify the script.

[besson3c]

What's amazing is that people like spacefreak rail against what the Democrats did in handling these two states when, as it turns out, the Democrats ended up doing the same thing the Republicans did from the start.

[spacefreak]

What's amazing is that Obama has to hire 400 bloggers to work the web and steer public perception (ie. deceive).

[spacefreak]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

If you're going to ignore the rules a primary has to follow, sure.

States determine their primary dates. Other than electing their state officials, individual voters have no way to change what date their state chooses to hold their primary election.

Ultimately, the DNC had to not count votes to hand the nomination to Obama.

[besson3c]

on to the next topic, I see...

Well, it was fun, as always...

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by spacefreak 

What's amazing is that Obama has to hire 400 bloggers to work the web and steer public perception (ie. deceive).

How does that compare to hiring military analysts to steer public perception? Perhaps Obama has more experience at being a politician than anyone gives him credit for.

[spacefreak]

What, does Obama require time limits on each thread?

Curious, these 400 or so bloggers being paid by Obama... do they get paid per post, per site, or both? Does extra cursing, Bush-bashing, repeated claims of dire economic times, or the misportrayal of McCain as GWB2 get one a bonus?