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"_____" while black (Page 10)
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OAW
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Apr 28, 2021, 04:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by MacNNFamous View Post
Just make payouts to police victims come out of their pensions. Problem will solve itself.
This! As long as taxpayers have to foot the bill for police brutality settlements then police departments and unions will continue to protect rogue cops with impunity. But let them have to pay such settlements out of their own pockets and we will start to see them pushing out the bad actors.

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subego
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Apr 29, 2021, 05:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Our "sense of fairness" is colored by the society we grew up in. Which, again, was founded specifically on racist ideas and notions, and the history of our society has been one that tries its absolute hardest to uphold those ideas and notions. So I'm hesitant to draw on some nebulous notion of "fairness."
I’m using the idea of fairness very concretely, I’m just not communicating it well.

I bring up fairness because my proposal is inherently unfair. For all intents and purposes, my proposal is no different from paying thugs running a protection racket. To me, there’s not even a question of whether this should violate our sense of fairness. It quite obviously does.

I’m only trying to get a sense of how much of a road block this is to you, because there are plenty of reasoned arguments it should be a road block.
     
Laminar
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Apr 29, 2021, 10:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I’m using the idea of fairness very concretely, I’m just not communicating it well.

I bring up fairness because my proposal is inherently unfair. For all intents and purposes, my proposal is no different from paying thugs running a protection racket. To me, there’s not even a question of whether this should violate our sense of fairness. It quite obviously does.

I’m only trying to get a sense of how much of a road block this is to you, because there are plenty of reasoned arguments it should be a road block.
Okay, I think I see what you're saying. My opposition to blindly increasing pay isn't based on the idea being unfair (at least I don't think it is). It's more because I believe we could achieve better results through other means. Yes, you could put $1000 in a savings account and earn 0.01%, or you could stick it in the mutual fund with a 20 year return of 8%. It's not about fairness, it's about maximizing results.
     
subego
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Apr 29, 2021, 07:15 PM
 
I wouldn’t dream of enacting that blindly. It would need hard data to back it up. Likewise, I’m not offering it as a complete solution in and of itself. Lots of things to be done which cost no money.
     
OreoCookie
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Apr 29, 2021, 09:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I wouldn’t dream of enacting that blindly. It would need hard data to back it up. Likewise, I’m not offering it as a complete solution in and of itself. Lots of things to be done which cost no money.
I think rather than paying people more, you can also take a different approach by pairing cops up. I noticed that at least in some regions cops are by themselves, and if they scare easily, it‘d be better if they worked in pairs. I’m not sure higher pay is the first item on the list, though, at least not directly. I‘d actually suggest to add funds to different agencies and organizations (e. g. social workers) so that they can do jobs that are in many places currently covered by law enforcement. Dealing with domestic struggles and drug addicts comes to mind. Traffic violations could also be treated by someone else — and police departments‘s budgets should not be funded from fines or seizures (asset forfeiture laws in the US are plain nuts and I don‘t understand why especially conservatives don‘t make bigger hay of this — it isn‘t just about the 2A or 1A, the 4A needs some love, too).
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
subego
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Apr 30, 2021, 01:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
I I‘d actually suggest to add funds to different agencies and organizations (e. g. social workers) so that they can do jobs that are in many places currently covered by law enforcement. Dealing with domestic struggles and drug addicts comes to mind.
So I know what you’re imagining, give me a scenario where one of these new types of first responders would be dispatched instead of a cop.
     
OreoCookie
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Apr 30, 2021, 02:21 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
So I know what you’re imagining, give me a scenario where one of these new types of first responders would be dispatched instead of a cop.
These aren't first responders, social workers become part of the community.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
subego
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Apr 30, 2021, 06:56 AM
 
How are these social workers dispatched to the problem?
     
Laminar
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Apr 30, 2021, 09:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
I think rather than paying people more, you can also take a different approach by pairing cops up. I noticed that at least in some regions cops are by themselves, and if they scare easily, it‘d be better if they worked in pairs.
Research shows it's the other way around. Officers in pairs are more like to act quickly, impulsively, and more boldly. Officers acting alone are more cautious and will allow more time for a situation to deescalate while waiting for backup to arrive.
     
 
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