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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > Apple employees can now get the current 17-inch PowerBook for $2,499...

Apple employees can now get the current 17-inch PowerBook for $2,499...
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seanyepez
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Jul 25, 2003, 03:27 AM
 
I just thought that I'd let you guys know that the fourth-quarter Apple employee discount promotions include a 17-inch PowerBook for $2,499.

I think new 17-inch PowerBook will pack a lot more computing power than the current model in the form of multiple G4 processors. Also, I don't think the updated 15-inch PowerBook G4 will use an nVIDIA graphics chipset; I believe it is likely that Apple will choose to use the ATi Mobility RADEON 9600 with 128 megabytes of video memory instead.
( Last edited by seanyepez; Jul 25, 2003 at 03:35 AM. )
     
icruise
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Jul 25, 2003, 03:38 AM
 
So you're predicting dual processors for the next version of the 17"?
     
ae86_16v
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Jul 25, 2003, 04:10 AM
 
Wow, that is quite a savings. Sean, when do you think the new ones will come out?
     
Naz
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Jul 25, 2003, 04:47 AM
 
What? duals... when... I'm getting a 17" by the end of AUG...
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seanyepez  (op)
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Jul 25, 2003, 05:03 AM
 
Originally posted by ae86_16v:
Wow, that is quite a savings. Sean, when do you think the new ones will come out?
I think they're going to come out on or after September 27th, 2003.
     
Naz
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Jul 25, 2003, 05:27 AM
 
that would be sad for me because I would have my PB in September...

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crispinwilliams
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Jul 25, 2003, 05:35 AM
 
Latest rumours from bidouille also point to a date in September as a the earliest release date.. due to the non availability of the moto 7457 in sufficient quantity..
http://www.macbidouille.com/niouzcon...003-07-25#6221

.. all very sad since the 7457 seems to be a big step forward..
     
haunebu
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Jul 25, 2003, 07:54 AM
 
Er, duals is a laptop?

No. That's MOSR-style fantasy crap. You'll see a 970 in there before two G4s.
     
Mithras
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Jul 25, 2003, 08:22 AM
 
Does one pay sales tax on an Apple employee (or friends+family) purchase?
     
beachmark
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Jul 25, 2003, 08:33 AM
 
2499 is only 20 per cent discount compared to students.

it is good that apple treats their staff as they should. make them the happiest persons and they wil ltell others.

i bought mine for 2999 and as i bought it at the same time as my ipod i got 200 mail in rebate.

oh yeh as far as faster new ones is concerned: i hope to use this computer 36-48 months. in that light the speed increase that i might miss is not that much as i will miss about 5 increases when apple updates its powerbooks every 8 months.
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Eug
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Jul 25, 2003, 09:48 AM
 
I'd be surprised with dual G4s. The PowerBooks need more speed, but I find it difficult to believe duals would be answer. I wonder how much power that would suck up.

Anyways, as per my PowerBook prediction thread, with no inside info I'm still guessing a single 1.25 (or possibly 1.33) GHz G4 7457.
     
NeXTLoop
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Jul 25, 2003, 10:04 AM
 
I'm with Eug on this one. The 17" already has the worst battery life of any portable Apple makes (not bad considering its size, but still...). Can you imagine what it would be like with 2 of them in there? Not to mention the heat factor.

The latest chip from Moto may be better than the current one... but not that much better.
( Last edited by NeXTLoop; Jul 25, 2003 at 11:21 AM. )
     
juanpacolopez
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Jul 25, 2003, 11:22 AM
 
Originally posted by NeXTLoop:
I'm with Eug on this one. The 17" already has the worse battery life of any portable Apple makes. Can you imagine what it would be like with 2 of them in there? Not to mention the heat factor.

The latest chip from Moto may be better than the current one... but not that much better.
What if they pulled a real shocker and threw a fuel cell PS in there?

I remember reading recently that Apple was agressively pursuing this technology.

It'd be a real swift kick if Apple threw down with the world's first dual processor, fuel cell laptop. I honestly think that would make me sell my (basically new) 15. I don't particularly want such a large screen, but fuel cell power and dual processors in a laptop would be too much to pass up.

Something to think about..
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rhansen_x
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Jul 25, 2003, 11:49 AM
 
If this is true, I got boned again. I just ordered a 17" two hours ago. It never fails, I order a new one and ten minutes later its an old one.
Forget the curveball Rickey, give 'im the heater.
     
aehaas
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Jul 25, 2003, 12:49 PM
 
The 7457 uses 8.3 watts typical at 1 GHz. Two small package 7447 chips in a 17 inch PBook case is reasonable. I second this prediction, a prediction I came up with last year when I saw the original stats on the 7457 - 7447.

aehaas
     
seanyepez  (op)
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Jul 25, 2003, 12:59 PM
 
Originally posted by Eug:
I'd be surprised with dual G4s. The PowerBooks need more speed, but I find it difficult to believe duals would be answer. I wonder how much power that would suck up.

Anyways, as per my PowerBook prediction thread, with no inside info I'm still guessing a single 1.25 (or possibly 1.33) GHz G4 7457.
I thought the same thing a few months ago.
     
schmoe
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Jul 25, 2003, 01:04 PM
 
*boggle* those sound like quite the upgrade! I know nothing about the power usage of CPU vs LCD, but perhaps with the combination of the 7457 and a more powerful battery Apple could pull it off. Jaws will drop if so, mine included!

Apple did use the "lithium prismatic" battery for the 17" which is lighter but has less power, I assume to keep the weight down.

I don't buy the G5 by January 2004 though, I'm betting on at least a year's wait if not longer.
     
yoyoman
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Jul 25, 2003, 01:35 PM
 
Originally posted by schmoe:
*boggle* those sound like quite the upgrade! I know nothing about the power usage of CPU vs LCD, but perhaps with the combination of the 7457 and a more powerful battery Apple could pull it off. Jaws will drop if so, mine included!

Apple did use the "lithium prismatic" battery for the 17" which is lighter but has less power, I assume to keep the weight down.

I don't buy the G5 by January 2004 though, I'm betting on at least a year's wait if not longer.
I would hope for a new kind of screen. I just went to frys electronic and saw a toshiba with the latest and one of a kind screen. The quality was insain. You can see from any angle and the quality is perfect. Better then the powerbooks. Some new screen teconology. Also where did u you hear about the 20 per cents off discount for employees.
     
Eug
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Jul 25, 2003, 01:43 PM
 
Originally posted by aehaas:
The 7457 uses 8.3 watts typical at 1 GHz. Two small package 7447 chips in a 17 inch PBook case is reasonable. I second this prediction, a prediction I came up with last year when I saw the original stats on the 7457 - 7447.
Where did you see those numbers? The numbers keep changing. The numbers I had previously seen posted for 1.3 GHz were 18.7 or 16.6 Watts typical, and now as low as 15 W typical. I had not seen 1 GHz numbers until recently, with the suggestion is that it's just under 10 W per CPU. But then I came across this reference that says the 7457 will use 8 Watts at 1 GHz. (For reference, the 7455 is 15 Watts typical at 1 GHz, and the G5 is 19 Watts typical at 1.2 GHz.)

So, yes, it is conceivable that two such CPUs could be used at 1 GHz, but I am VERY confused as to what are the accurate numbers, at least in relation to the G4 7455. I dunno about the 7447 though, since it has no L3 support. Mind you, two 1 GHz 7447s with no L3 would be faster than a single 1.3 GHz 7457 with L3.

I am still concerned about bandwidth however. Because of memory limitations, the bus speed would still be 167 MHz. On many applications that could use a dual 1.0 GH4 G4, they'd be bandwidth starved. Things would be better if the CPU had an integrated DDR memory controller, but the 7457 does not.

Originally posted by seanyepez:
I thought the same thing a few months ago.
So what has changed?

Anyways, I'm more concerned with the 15". The 17" is physically too large for my tastes.

EDIT:

That reference I posted also claims they will be making dual core G4s up to 2 GHz.
( Last edited by Eug; Jul 25, 2003 at 02:02 PM. )
     
yoyoman
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Jul 25, 2003, 03:21 PM
 
Originally posted by seanyepez:
I just thought that I'd let you guys know that the fourth-quarter Apple employee discount promotions include a 17-inch PowerBook for $2,499.

I think new 17-inch PowerBook will pack a lot more computing power than the current model in the form of multiple G4 processors. Also, I don't think the updated 15-inch PowerBook G4 will use an nVIDIA graphics chipset; I believe it is likely that Apple will choose to use the ATi Mobility RADEON 9600 with 128 megabytes of video memory instead.
Link
     
OldManMac
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Jul 25, 2003, 11:19 PM
 
Originally posted by Mithras:
Does one pay sales tax on an Apple employee (or friends+family) purchase?
Yes, Apple charges sales tax and shipping.
Why is there always money for war, but none for education?
     
Eug
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Jul 26, 2003, 12:06 AM
 
Originally posted by Eug:
Where did you see those numbers? The numbers keep changing. The numbers I had previously seen posted for 1.3 GHz were 18.7 or 16.6 Watts typical, and now as low as 15 W typical. I had not seen 1 GHz numbers until recently, with the suggestion is that it's just under 10 W per CPU. But then I came across this reference that says the 7457 will use 8 Watts at 1 GHz. (For reference, the 7455 is 15 Watts typical at 1 GHz, and the G5 is 19 Watts typical at 1.2 GHz.)
Yep, I just came across this document which updates the typical power consumption spec of a 1 GHz G4 7457 to 8.3 Watts. That's pretty damn impressive.

That's a HUGE improvement of their previous spec of 15.8 Watts at 1 GHz, as documented here.

That makes a dual G4 1 GHz 17" laptop actually possible, and even desirable.
     
yoyoman
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Jul 26, 2003, 12:58 AM
 
Originally posted by KarlG:
Yes, Apple charges sales tax and shipping. yes 20% off
Is it a fact that employees get 20% off. Is there a link or some factual thing you can back the statement up with.
     
coolmacdude
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Jul 26, 2003, 01:21 AM
 
Originally posted by haunebu:
Er, duals is a laptop?

No. That's MOSR-style fantasy crap. You'll see a 970 in there before two G4s.
And that's not even the worst. They've actually been pushing the quad processor mac for some time now.
     
yoyoman
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Jul 26, 2003, 12:23 PM
 
[QUOTE]Originally posted by seanyepez:
[B]I just thought that I'd let you guys know that the fourth-quarter Apple employee discount promotions include a 17-inch PowerBook for $2,499.

where is the proof. I would like to know. Is this a fact.
     
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Jul 26, 2003, 01:53 PM
 
:yawn: get me a powerbook and maybe I'll agree with you.
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beachmark
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Jul 26, 2003, 03:44 PM
 
another reply from me in this case.

i have had several companies over the years and with most of them 20 per cent discount was the least we gave to our staff.

bear in mind that staff is also your ambassador and they have to know your product inside out to abel to give the best advice to your clients. it would not look good when apple staff has to tell clietns they only have an ibook as they are so expensive andthat they can only paly with a 17 inch at work. no, it sounds much better when they say that they upgraded from ab ibook to a 17 inch as you also hope that your client is upgrading whether it is from a wintel or from an ibook or any other apple computer.
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ae86_16v
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Jul 26, 2003, 04:15 PM
 
[QUOTE]Originally posted by yoyoman:
[B]
Originally posted by seanyepez:
I just thought that I'd let you guys know that the fourth-quarter Apple employee discount promotions include a 17-inch PowerBook for $2,499.

where is the proof. I would like to know. Is this a fact.
Yeah, why doesn't he just show you the internal memo? (sarcasm)
     
yoyoman
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Jul 27, 2003, 02:39 AM
 
Originally posted by ae86_16v:
Yeah, why doesn't he just show you the internal memo? (sarcasm)
he could be making this up no offence or nothin but with out facts or proof its hard to believe.
     
cowerd
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Jul 27, 2003, 02:43 AM
 
he could be making this up no offence or nothin but with out facts or proof its hard to believe.
If you had a clue about the source you wouldn't need to ask these things. In other words there are lots of people here who believe its true for good reason.
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Simon
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Jul 27, 2003, 04:07 AM
 
Originally posted by cowerd:
If you had a clue about the source you wouldn't need to ask these things. In other words there are lots of people here who believe its true for good reason.
Well, I don't have a clue about the source either, but maybe it's just because I've given up reading flame wars in the lounge.

Would you care to enlighten us and deliver some meat to go with your beefy statements?

     
Eug
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Jul 27, 2003, 10:56 AM
 
Sean's predictions are far from perfect, but he has some credibility.

He predicted the aluminum PowerBooks (although not as early as they came). He also predicted a significant upgrade to the TiBook, with 867 and 1 GHz processors, just before the TiBook SD came out. He also said his source hinted at a Radeon 9000. (I don't think he believed there was an SD though.)
     
cowerd
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Jul 27, 2003, 11:26 AM
 
Sean's predictions are far from perfect, but he has some credibility.
Besides all he has said is that Apple employees can now gt the current 17-inch powerbook for $2499. How paranoid do you have to be to get wound up about that? Its not like he said that Apple employees can buy a 4GHZ 980 laptop for $9.99.
yo frat boy. where's my tax cut.
     
justinf77
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Jul 27, 2003, 11:42 AM
 
Hmm, late September eh?

Going to be a looong couple of months...
     
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Jul 27, 2003, 11:48 AM
 
Originally posted by Eug:
Sean's predictions are far from perfect, but he has some credibility.

He predicted the aluminum PowerBooks (although not as early as they came). He also predicted a significant upgrade to the TiBook, with 867 and 1 GHz processors, just before the TiBook SD came out. He also said his source hinted at a Radeon 9000. (I don't think he believed there was an SD though.)
Thanks Eug.

I was wondering because some time ago I read a thread where everybody was bashing him for predicting something that didn't actually materialize. Basically, he was slated as a 14 year old big-mouth. The only defense I read was that at least the 14 year old part was right...
     
Eug
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Jul 27, 2003, 12:44 PM
 
Originally posted by cowerd:
Besides all he has said is that Apple employees can now gt the current 17-inch powerbook for $2499. How paranoid do you have to be to get wound up about that? Its not like he said that Apple employees can buy a 4GHZ 980 laptop for $9.99.
He said the 17" would have multiple processors.

I'd be inclined to believe in a single G4 7457 1.25-1.33 GHz for the 17", but if the 8.3 Watt spec I came across for the single G4 7457 1.0 GHz is true, it's not inconceivable a dual 1.0 could be made (at least for the 17"). With the old 7455 chip, a dual 1.0 would draw too much power. Indeed, even the old specs for the 7457 would have made this extremely unlikely. However, the published Motorola specs have since changed.
     
cowerd
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Jul 27, 2003, 12:52 PM
 
He said the 17" would have multiple processors.
Its either that or a 970. The pressure is on Apple in their portable line. Both from Centrino, and the release of the 970. Portables over the last couple of years have been Apple's value buy, in terms of cost, features and speed.
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Eug
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Jul 27, 2003, 01:15 PM
 
Originally posted by cowerd:
Its either that or a 970. The pressure is on Apple in their portable line. Both from Centrino, and the release of the 970. Portables over the last couple of years have been Apple's value buy, in terms of cost, features and speed.
The only viable 970 would be the 1.2 (or maybe 1.4).

If the respective specs could be compared, dual 1.0 GHz G4 7457s would use less power than a single 1.2 GHz G5. Even if the dual GHz G4s use slightly more power than a single 1.2 G5, it's still more desirable to have the dual in terms of performance under some conditions. The G5's advantage is bandwidth however. With a 600 MHz bus and DDR333 it would do very well.
     
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Jul 27, 2003, 01:26 PM
 
i would think that, from a marketing standpoint, dual processors would be great, no? Wouldn't this make it the first dual-processor laptop, or the first "Workstation-replacement" (as opposed to desktop-replacement) laptop.

edit: even if power weren't an issue, though, wouldn't heat become one? even if the 7457 uses half the power of the old G4s, i doubt it produces only half of the heat.
     
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Jul 27, 2003, 03:54 PM
 
even if power weren't an issue, though, wouldn't heat become one? even if the 7457 uses half the power of the old G4s, i doubt it produces only half of the heat.
     
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Jul 27, 2003, 05:11 PM
 
Apple hopes to attract the largest group of clients possible with its computers. For how many would a double processor Powerbook be interesting?

With all respect but all members of this forum might be very active Apple users they are only a small portion of the whole group for Apple. And it is also probably this group who would be unhappy with the final upgrade of Apple as there is always something to wish for.

I believethat at current Apple is supplying its market with what they want. And if you want faster then you can buy a desktop one and use your Powerbook for what it was meant to be mobile work.
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MaxPower2k3
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Jul 27, 2003, 05:14 PM
 
Originally posted by Eug:
i mean, even if they could have dual processors because of the low power consumption, wouldn't the two processors still produce much more heat than one?
     
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Jul 27, 2003, 05:38 PM
 
And if you want faster then you can buy a desktop one and use your Powerbook for what it was meant to be mobile work.
Sorry that's what the iBook and 12-inch Pbook are for. You don't sell the majority of 15-inch and 17-inch Pbooks to people who do "mobile" work. They are meant as replacements for people who can't/don't lug desktops around, but need something that has almost as much power as a desktop, and are almost as full featured.
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Jul 27, 2003, 06:10 PM
 
Originally posted by MaxPower2k3:
i mean, even if they could have dual processors because of the low power consumption, wouldn't the two processors still produce much more heat than one?
Power consumption is more or less equal to heat dissipated. Since the electrical power is tranformed into thermal energy in resistive conductors according to Joule...

When you hear that the 7457 produces 8W at 1GHz that tells you it will get more life out of the battery. But that is only a small issue. Most of the battery energy is used on other stuff anyway: disks, optical drives, the screen, etc. use much more battery energy than the CPU ever could.

The big thing is that a 7457 using only 8W only will dissipate 8W of heat and that means it gets half as hot as a 7455. Thus all the buzz about dual PowerBooks. It's not very likely, it's just doing the elementary math.
     
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Jul 27, 2003, 06:19 PM
 
Originally posted by cowerd:
Sorry that's what the iBook and 12-inch Pbook are for. You don't sell the majority of 15-inch and 17-inch Pbooks to people who do "mobile" work. They are meant as replacements for people who can't/don't lug desktops around, but need something that has almost as much power as a desktop, and are almost as full featured.
I agree with almost everything but the exclusion of the 12" when it comes to the desktop replacement.

The "Power" in the 12" PowerBook should mean it's a full-featured, fast notebook that will replace a desktop as soon as you get to the office, hook up a big screen and decent keyboard. At least that is what I do.

Now, the reason to replace a desktop with a 12" instead of a 17" is very simple. The guy who replaces the desktop with a 17" wants a desktop that he can move around. The guy that replaces a desktop with a 12" wants a notebook that can also be used as a desktop.

But I must admit, the 12" isn't quite there yet. I'd say, let's wait for rev B.
     
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Jul 27, 2003, 06:19 PM
 
ah, true, i didn't think of that. thanks for clarifying
     
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Jul 27, 2003, 07:11 PM
 
Sean,

As much as I appreciate your insights, I do wish that you would post more information within the threads that you create after the discussion gets rolling. People have asked you some good questions (sans the "proof" demand ), and I think that you could offer us some more information regarding your predictions.

I'm not trying to be mean, I just wish you would speak up a little more within the thread (since you clearly have a good track record here and could provide us with some additional forecasting/purchasing advice.)

Cheers,
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Jul 28, 2003, 02:13 AM
 
Originally posted by higuy83:
Sean,

As much as I appreciate your insights, I do wish that you would post more information within the threads that you create after the discussion gets rolling. People have asked you some good questions (sans the "proof" demand ), and I think that you could offer us some more information regarding your predictions.

I'm not trying to be mean, I just wish you would speak up a little more within the thread (since you clearly have a good track record here and could provide us with some additional forecasting/purchasing advice.)

Cheers,
Brian
I was told compleatly different about 20% off from my freind daniel which was told from apple directly because he works for the school district. He said 25% off the first apple product and for the second and third 15% off So for 20% off threw me.
     
crispinwilliams
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: geneva, switzerland
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Jul 29, 2003, 11:48 AM
 
Let us assume that these stories that the 7457 delay is causing the powerbook line to be delayed... does that explain the non-appearance of a 15 inch albook? Surely if they had it ready to go (with bluetooth and airport extreme etc all packaged in aluminium) - they could just put a 1 GHz 7455 in it and start shipping it. The only reason that I can see for the 15 inch albook to be held back if it is still a Tibook - and the update will be just to replace the 7455 (currently used) with a 1.3 GHz 7457 when it comes ready. The recent pdf update
http://e-www.motorola.com/files/32bi.../MPC7457EC.pdf
from Motorola that specifies the bus speed to be 167 MHz rather than the 200 MHz previously stated by Motorola also points to the bus speed being the problem part of the circuit that was causing low yield. It seems that this specification has been relaxed - so I guess that yields will start to be reasonable .. and maybe it is still possible for Apple to release new powerbooks before September if they wished. Unfortunately this pdf file specified a much higher power consumption (15.8 W at 1 GHz)) than found by Eug.. I cannot believe that a dual processor 17 inch is close..
All in all - this powerbook revision does not look as if it will be too exciting - unless Apple surprizes us all by not going with the 7457...
     
David Hagan
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: The Greater Boston Area
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Jul 29, 2003, 07:17 PM
 
PowerPage says the 17-inch has been EOL'd and new revision B models are expectedly "shortly." Whatever shortly means. Tomorrow? Next week? When?
     
 
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