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adamtki · Jun 20, 2002, 05:35 PM

It'd be nice to have something under the Apple menu that says something like "Lock Computer". I don't want to be quitting all my applications and logging out when I want to step away from my computer for a little while. If I leave everything running or put it to sleep, people can access my desktop. This is not good for a public environment such as a workplace or school. I'm surprised more people haven't requested for this feature.

I think it would be easy to implement. And beyond that, Apple could add multiple desktops in later releases.

CharlesS · Jun 20, 2002, 05:37 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by adamtki:
It'd be nice to have something under the Apple menu that says something like "Lock Computer". I don't want to be quitting all my applications and logging out when I want to step away from my computer for a little while. If I leave everything running or put it to sleep, people can access my desktop. This is not good for a public environment such as a workplace or school. I'm surprised more people haven't requested for this feature.

I think it would be easy to implement. And beyond that, Apple could add multiple desktops in later releases.<hr /></blockquote>Ever looked at the built-in screensaver's password feature?

Mithras · Jun 20, 2002, 05:41 PM

Combined with the "sleep corner" feature?

Millennium · Jun 20, 2002, 05:43 PM

Screen saver + password + Sleep Now corner = locked screen.

If a system call exists to start the screensaver immediately (and it probably does exist), then someone could whip up a menu item to do this too.

curmi · Jun 20, 2002, 06:17 PM

And if you want Apple to include this as a standard feature, send them the feedback before they release 10.2...

SteevAK · Jun 20, 2002, 06:21 PM

What if we want to lock the screen but not use up CPU cycles generating some stupid/not-so-stupid screen saver? I would like this feature as well. I guess I'll email Apple.

Rickster · Jun 20, 2002, 06:31 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> What if we want to lock the screen but not use up CPU cycles generating some stupid/not-so-stupid screen saver? <hr /></blockquote>Choose the 'Basic' screensaver or download one of the several screensavers out there that turns the screen black and does nothing else.

Richyfp · Jun 20, 2002, 06:33 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by SteevAK:
What if we want to lock the screen but not use up CPU cycles generating some stupid/not-so-stupid screen saver? I would like this feature as well. I guess I'll email Apple.<hr /></blockquote>Then I guess that you select the "Basic" screensaver that just displays your computer's network name and the Apple logo.

nforcer · Jun 20, 2002, 07:11 PM

I've been using the aforementioned plain screensaver + password technique to prevent access to my Mac when I go away for a while. But the problem with the screensaver, however, is that if I am downloading something or lose my network connection while I'm away, it takes forever for the password screen to come back up. Normally it's just a minute or two when this happens, but I've timed 3 minutes 12 seconds before. And this is on a new iMac G4/700. Ouch! Glad this is a known bug, however (it's mentioned somewhere at macosxhints if you are interested in reading up on it).

In the meantime, you'll have to use a third party utility that cannot be forced quit (I remember Lockout on Mac OS 9... it's probably on X, but it's shareware last I remember). Or if your coworkers don't know about force quitting, you could easily whip up a simple application that hides the menu and dock, and makes the front screen black in REALbasic or Project Builder. Then you could turn on Energy Saver for just the screen, set it to 5 minutes, and wa la... you have an idiot-secure ghetto screensaver

[ 06-20-2002, 07:13 PM: Message edited by: nforcer ]

Mactoid · Jun 20, 2002, 07:45 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Millennium:
Screen saver + password + Sleep Now corner = locked screen.

If a system call exists to start the screensaver immediately (and it probably does exist), then someone could whip up a menu item to do this too.<hr /></blockquote>You don't actually need a method to do this (granted it would be nice). All you need to do is execute "/System/Library/Frameworks/ScreenSaver.framework/Versions/Current/Resources/ScreenSaverEngine.app/Contents/MacOS/ScreenSaverEngine".

If you want it to just blank the screen than download the Basic Black screen saver, then use "-module Basic\ Black" as a parameter.

Unfortunatly there doesn't appear to be a flag for turning the password on and off, so you must make sure the password option is on.

adamtki · Jun 20, 2002, 09:00 PM

Yes, there are ways to do this and I know about the screen saver, but the whole point is to be able to do this common task quickly, easily, in a standard way, and without side effects.

Why screen saver is not as good:
- You need to set it up! I don't need to spell it out, because all of you know how many steps it takes as opposed to just select "lock" from the Apple menu (or control-alt-delete, space on XP).
- You have to move your mouse to the corner and wait. Of course which corner it is may be different.
- Sometimes you don't want to lock your computer and just want the screen saver to run without passwords
- You might have a CPU hogging screen saver. Otherwise you have to sacrifice what kind of screen save you'll have.

I'm sure there are other reasons. I already placed a feature request in at the Apple site before I posted. I just wanted to see how other people feel. SOunds like people are divided as to whether it should be part of the Apple menu or not.

undotwa · Jun 20, 2002, 11:52 PM

My god...

Yes there is a network bug with the screen saver, but

- You need to set it up! I don't need to spell it out, because all of you know how many steps it takes as opposed to just select "lock" from the Apple menu (or control-alt-delete, space on XP).

Setting the screen saver up is not rocket science! You do this once: System Preferences --> Screen Saver, click basic then click Activication, enable whatever corners you want, and click on 'Use my user account password'. SIMPLE!

- You have to move your mouse to the corner and wait. Of course which corner it is may be different.

Press Apple-Tab in the Finder, paste this in and press OK.

/System/Library/Frameworks/ScreenSaver.framework/Versions/Current/Resources/, drag ScreenSaverEngine to your dock... It's one click activacation for the the screen saver!

- Sometimes you don't want to lock your computer and just want the screen saver to run without passwords

Well turn the Password Activication off! It's not rocket science again. I don't see how leaving the password activication on is painful.

- You might have a CPU hogging screen saver. Otherwise you have to sacrifice what kind of screen save you'll have.

Huh? You want fancy effects it requires CPU. If you don't want to sacrafice the CPU required you can't have fancy effects, simple. It's not like the screen lock gives you fancy effects...

TNproud2b · Jun 21, 2002, 12:37 AM

cool. I didn't know I could lock the screen in XP.

Back on topic:

You can make your computer do anything you want it to do - that's why they make 'em in the first place. Hell, you could create your very own OS and your own apps if you wanted to. That's not the point of this discussion.

If an OS is going to have pre-installed applications, then they might as well be useful ones. Since a screensaver is utterly pointless, it stands to reason that a 'desktop lock' icon (RedHat got it right) would be FAR more useful and should be included BEFORE any useless applications, like screensavers (which, today, have no beneficial effects for your monitor).

kman42 · Jun 21, 2002, 12:40 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by undotwa:
My god...

Yes there is a network bug with the screen saver, but

- You need to set it up! I don't need to spell it out, because all of you know how many steps it takes as opposed to just select "lock" from the Apple menu (or control-alt-delete, space on XP).

Setting the screen saver up is not rocket science! You do this once: System Preferences --> Screen Saver, click basic then click Activication, enable whatever corners you want, and click on 'Use my user account password'. SIMPLE!

- You have to move your mouse to the corner and wait. Of course which corner it is may be different.

Press Apple-Tab in the Finder, paste this in and press OK.

/System/Library/Frameworks/ScreenSaver.framework/Versions/Current/Resources/, drag ScreenSaverEngine to your dock... It's one click activacation for the the screen saver!

- Sometimes you don't want to lock your computer and just want the screen saver to run without passwords

Well turn the Password Activication off! It's not rocket science again. I don't see how leaving the password activication on is painful.

- You might have a CPU hogging screen saver. Otherwise you have to sacrifice what kind of screen save you'll have.

Huh? You want fancy effects it requires CPU. If you don't want to sacrafice the CPU required you can't have fancy effects, simple. It's not like the screen lock gives you fancy effects...<hr /></blockquote>I agree. That guy's childhood was way to easy if he's lodging those complaints.

kman

MrNo · Jun 21, 2002, 02:31 AM

Why do people always try to find an excuse for Apple. I agree that OS X needs a screen/computer lock option. It makes life much easier. If crappy windows can have it why not OS X. Cmon it's not "rocket science"

Sharky K. · Jun 21, 2002, 03:42 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by MrNo:
Why do people always try to find an excuse for Apple. I agree that OS X needs a screen/computer lock option. It makes life much easier. If crappy windows can have it why not OS X. Cmon it's not "rocket science"<hr /></blockquote>Why do people always want every thing exactly work like in an other OS work?

Oke if Apple should add this feature they should do this better, I suggest: option to turn off/on lock per application base. There are always people who want to use your computer for a sec so you can only not lock the browser for instance.

adamtki · Jun 21, 2002, 03:59 AM

Apple is all about simplicity and elegance. If you have to go the round about way to lock your screen, it's not quite as simple and elegant any more.

This suggestion will help the millions of non technical mac users by giving them the convenience of going to the Apple menu instead of realizing there's a

/System/Library/Frameworks/ScreenSaver.framework/Versions/Current/Resources/

that can help them create a dock shortcut to enable the password protected screen saver.

adamtki · Jun 21, 2002, 04:11 AM

sharky, I agree. Apple should do better than just implement the same feature.

I'd suggest that Apple provide an option to blank the screen, dim it, display everything as normal (but input is disabled), or ... ahem.. run the screen saver whenever you select Lock. You could hit the space or enter to select the default option or a number or letter for the other option.

undotwa · Jun 21, 2002, 05:09 AM

I do not see what is wrong with Mac OS X's screen saver function. It works fine. That trick I showed you was to give a dock shortcut to enable the screen saver. Really 'enabling' the password isn't difficult, you just click a radio button, and moving your mouse into the corner isn't difficult either (there is no delay).

Stop complaining, it's not worth requesting.

dtriska · Jun 21, 2002, 05:14 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by adamtki:
Apple is all about simplicity and elegance. If you have to go the round about way to lock your screen, it's not quite as simple and elegant any more.<hr /></blockquote>How is moving the cursor into a corner not simple nor elegant?

adamtki · Jun 21, 2002, 05:49 AM

You're not looking at the whole picture.

For simplicity let's just say desktop lock = screen saver with password.

How can I have both a regular screen saver and locked screen saver without reconfiguring every time I want one or the other?

If the locked screen saver can be turned on by moving the mouse to one corner and the regular screen saver can be turned on by moving the mouse to the other corner, then that would be a big step closer to simplicity.

If Apple has standard corners for these functions and they were enabled by default, we're another step closer to simplicity and standardization.

If Apple could provide a keyboard alternative, we'd be even closer...

Then there's the issue of accidently turning the screen saver on every once in while when your mouse drifts there...

Get the picture?

Desktop lock (ie screen saver with password) should be invoked differently from the regular screen saver. Otherwise, you gotta reconfigure...

clebin · Jun 21, 2002, 06:03 AM

This kind of response from Mac users really gets me. Someone asks for a perfectly valid feature and a barrage of reasons why they're wrong...

Some people wouldn't know a good feature if it hit them in the face:

1) I don't want to have to sign into my machine every time the screensaver comes on. Just because I haven't been moving my mouse doesn't mean I'm not sitting at my desk.

2) I don't want the screensaver coming on with a logon dialogue every time my mouse pointer gets knocked into the corner while I'm typing.

3) As an alternative, sitting and waiting for the screensaver to come on, or leaving with the machine unlocked is not good.

4) If the screensaver needs it - then it's stupidly blindingly obvious that Sleep needs it more. It's in the same class as having "Are you sure you want to log out?" dialogues but not "Are you sure you want to restart?" or "Are you sure you want to shut down?" It's a simple ommission.

Given those perfectly valid reasons, and the possibility of putting a checkbox on the Energy Saver preferences, I can't understand why people are trying to defend it.

I'm not going to go postal on Apple's campus about it, but it has a place on my 'missing feature' list.

Chris

JLL · Jun 21, 2002, 08:23 AM

Stop complaining:

<a href="http://www.apple.com/macosx/feedback" target="_blank">www.apple.com/macosx/feedback</a>

clebin · Jun 21, 2002, 08:30 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by JLL:
Stop complaining:

<a href="http://www.apple.com/macosx/feedback" target="_blank">www.apple.com/macosx/feedback</a><hr /></blockquote>Oh wow - thanks for the link - I never knew that was there. Maybe now I'll asks for Finder labels or something

Like I said, it's not a huge thing to me, and I wouldn't bother complaining if people didn't try and justify its absense.

Sometimes Mac owners go into zealot mode and cannot bear criticism of Apple of any kind - and that's why I posted.

Chris

Millennium · Jun 21, 2002, 10:21 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by clebin:
This kind of response from Mac users really gets me. Someone asks for a perfectly valid feature and a barrage of reasons why they're wrong... <hr /></blockquote>We're not saying your feature is invalid. We're saying it's already there. Perhaps notg with the interface you were hoping for, but does that matter in the grand scheme?
<blockquote>quote:<hr />1) I don't want to have to sign into my machine every time the screensaver comes on. Just because I haven't been moving my mouse doesn't mean I'm not sitting at my desk.<hr /></blockquote>No, but if you're not using the mouse, keyboard, or other input device, you're evidently not doing any work.

There are only two things you can do with a computer (currently) which require no input at all. The first is playing music; this is not interrupted by a screen saver. The second is watching movies, and here the screen saver is a problem. It would be nice if there were a way to temporarily suspend screen saver operation; perhaps a pair of system calls such that apps could then include it as an option.
<blockquote>quote:<hr />2) I don't want the screensaver coming on with a logon dialogue every time my mouse pointer gets knocked into the corner while I'm typing.<hr /></blockquote>This is a problem. But your solution isn't the best. The best solution would be to delay for one second when the mouse hits the Sleep Now corner, and to continue tracking idle time on other input events. Then, if you were still typing and the mouse were bumped, the screen saver would not trigger.
<blockquote>quote:<hr />3) As an alternative, sitting and waiting for the screensaver to come on, or leaving with the machine unlocked is not good.<hr /></blockquote>Agreed. That is the point of screensavers.
<blockquote>quote:<hr />4) If the screensaver needs it - then it's stupidly blindingly obvious that Sleep needs it more. It's in the same class as having "Are you sure you want to log out?" dialogues but not "Are you sure you want to restart?" or "Are you sure you want to shut down?" It's a simple ommission.<hr /></blockquote>The "Are you sure you want to restart?" dialog has a Sleep button. As keyboard shortcuts you can press POWER, then S. You are correct, however, that being able to password-lock waking up from sleep would be a Good Thing.
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Given those perfectly valid reasons, and the possibility of putting a checkbox on the Energy Saver preferences, I can't understand why people are trying to defend it.<hr /></blockquote>Not all your reasons were sound, and I would suggest that a few weren't thought out to their logical conclusions. But most were OK.

Also, you missed the real advantage of a basic black screen saver. It has nothing to do with CPU cycles (which, if you're not doing anything on your machine, have no point in being wasted; may as well make them useful for something, even if it's just a screen saver). That's the fact that modern monitors do not have burn-in problems unless you leave them in one position for literally weeks. In fact, most screen savers are worse for modern monitors than just leaving it blank.

(Also note that for LCD monitors, you want a basic white screen, rather than a basic black one, if you want to preserve the pixels, though it's best to turn the backlight off too, which results in black again).

Spirit_VW · Jun 21, 2002, 11:35 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by TNproud2b:

If an OS is going to have pre-installed applications, then they might as well be useful ones. Since a screensaver is utterly pointless, it stands to reason that a 'desktop lock' icon (RedHat got it right) would be FAR more useful and should be included BEFORE any useless applications, like screensavers (which, today, have no beneficial effects for your monitor).<hr /></blockquote>If Windows just had screensavers and Mac OS X had a Lock Computer function, you'd be ranting about how much better the Windows method is than the Mac method�

Though I would also not mind having a "lock screen" function, there's no real point to it when you can set up the screensaver to do the exact same thing.

lookmark · Jun 21, 2002, 11:55 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by adamtki:
You're not looking at the whole picture.

For simplicity let's just say desktop lock = screen saver with password.

How can I have both a regular screen saver and locked screen saver without reconfiguring every time I want one or the other?[snip]<hr /></blockquote>Adamtki, you're completely correct. You've demonstrated a solid, valid use case: how it's a hassle and workaround to have a normal screen saver and lock your computer easily.

If people aren't listening to you, it's because they're not listening at all.

This should be an additional item in the Apple menu for locking on a case-specific basis. Or a System Menu to handle this. Or a lockable Sleep mode. Or, as you suggested, different user-configurable actions for different hot corners. But it should be there.

Apple's security method using screensavers works. But it can and should be better.

[ 06-21-2002, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: lookmark ]

clebin · Jun 21, 2002, 11:55 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Not all your reasons were sound, and I would suggest that a few weren't thought out to their logical conclusions. But most were OK.<hr /></blockquote>Thanks for the critical appraisal! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> But I can assure you that I have thought them through: I don't want a blank screensaver; my mouse pointer may still rest in the corner for more than 1 second when I'm typing, maybe even 5 seconds or a minute; and regardless of whether I'm working (on my computer) I don't need my Mac locked when I'm sitting in front of it.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Spirit_VW:
If Windows just had screensavers and Mac OS X had a Lock Computer function, you'd be ranting about how much better the Windows method is than the Mac method.<hr /></blockquote>Who exactly are you accusing of not supporting the Mac? Or not owning a Mac? We all want the mac to be the best and we're all entitled to an opinion.

I'm not accusing you of being a troll as I've read your other posts, but this is a totally unequivocal case of trolling! The guy was even talking about RedHat, not Windows <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

Chris

JHromadka · Jun 21, 2002, 03:52 PM

What I would rather have is the ability to press the power button and have it also offer the option to lock the machine or log out. Then it is only 2 things to press to either log off or lock the machine. That's even less than Windows.

LordJavac · Jun 21, 2002, 04:13 PM

The thing I've noticed with invoking the screen-saver directly is that, after the specified delay, another one starts up. It doesn't seem to check itself to see if it's already running or not. I also get crash logs from ScreenSaverEngine a lot when I wake it up from the screen saver (plus I lose my 'net connection a lot).

ShotgunEd · Jun 22, 2002, 06:55 AM

I don't know much about these things but this came to mind. Assuming the screensavers prefs are saved a .plist couldn't someone write and applescript that would modify the pass protect value. Then when u want to lock the screen u run the applescript, which in turn runs the screensaver. I'm not sure if there'd be a way to reset the plist after unlocking your screen so your screensaver could come on without a lock. I dunno, anyone?
--
Ross

mmurray · Jun 22, 2002, 07:51 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Millennium:

<blockquote>quote:<hr />1) I don't want to have to sign into my machine every time the screensaver comes on. Just because I haven't been moving my mouse doesn't mean I'm not sitting at my desk.<hr /></blockquote>No, but if you're not using the mouse, keyboard, or other input device, you're evidently not doing any work.

<hr /></blockquote>I think you forgot the :-) after this. You're telling me if I'm not doing something
with my computer I'm not working!

Michael

eno · Jun 22, 2002, 08:27 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by undotwa:
I do not see what is wrong with Mac OS X's screen saver function. It works fine. That trick I showed you was to give a dock shortcut to enable the screen saver. Really 'enabling' the password isn't difficult, you just click a radio button, and moving your mouse into the corner isn't difficult either (there is no delay).

Stop complaining, it's not worth requesting.<hr /></blockquote>Shut your stupid face, undotwa.

I can't believe you're arguing against this suggestion. It wouldn't hurt you if Apple implemented it. It's just another way of doing things that could easily co-exist with the current screensaver implementation. People like you obstruct progess, with your shrill arguments that "OS X is already perfect, Apple shouldn't try to improve it, you can already achieve the effect you want by doing this kludgey workaround!".

Of course it's possible to lock the screen using the screensaver. Great. But the originator of this thread is asking for a more direct access mechanism to lock the screen, and this would be undeniably useful for the beginning user.

Instead of having to go from A to B to C to D to E to F to G to H...

(When using your computer -> Open System Prefs -> Click on "Screensavers" -> click on "Activation" -> choose appropriate corner -> set up password preference - > from then on, whenever you wish to lock the screen, fling the mouse into the corner you selected -> screen is locked)

the beginner user can just go straight from A to H with only one step in between...

(When using your computer -> select "lock screen" -> screen is locked)

If you argue against the implementation of this kind of straightforward, simple functionality, then you are a ****wit. The originator proposes that the screensaver be left as is. Why are you complaining?

adamtki · Jun 23, 2002, 04:13 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Originally posted by Millennium:
No, but if you're not using the mouse, keyboard, or other input device, you're evidently not doing any work.
<hr /></blockquote>Ever get stuck on a bug or a difficult problem so long that the screen saver comes on?

diamondsw · Jun 24, 2002, 01:17 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by adamtki:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr /> Originally posted by Millennium:
No, but if you're not using the mouse, keyboard, or other input device, you're evidently not doing any work.
<hr /></blockquote>Ever get stuck on a bug or a difficult problem so long that the screen saver comes on?

<hr /></blockquote>Oh yeah.

However, I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that simply adding "switch user" functionality (ala WinXP) would achieve screen locking perfectly. That also allows other users to login and do work (which takes care of the suggestion to lock only certain apps). I really hate to say it, but that is a feature that Microsoft did well. The only thing I see blocking it is Classic and the current structure of the WindowServer (can only run a single copy at a time).

For a while, you could access part of Apple's bug system from the outside world, and it was clear that there's a group at Apple that wants to do this, but other parts of the OS (I believe IOKit was mentioned) were blocking it, and those teams weren't as receptive. A real shame, because we really don't have an answer to that feature other than "Well, don't do that".

diamondsw · Jun 24, 2002, 01:43 AM

Dang back button...

[ 06-24-2002, 01:44 AM: Message edited by: diamondsw ]

SecretAgentX · Jun 24, 2002, 02:00 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by adamtki:
Apple is all about simplicity and elegance. If you have to go the round about way to lock your screen, it's not quite as simple and elegant any more.<hr /></blockquote>This is not a make or break feature.
Most new users are completely flustered by the fact that they need a passoword to log in to OS X in the first place.
If a user accidentally accesses the menu item that "locks up" the screen, I will get more business from users that don't know why this is asking for a password.

Really, most new users (apple's new target) can't grasp passwords in OSX, why would they even consider using a screen locking feature?
I see this daily as I work for a Mac consulting firm specializing in new users.

What apple really needs is an easy way for us to completly & totally customize the interface for each user; every aspect, toolbars & menu extras and the dock are a good start, I see it coming.

kamprath · Jun 24, 2002, 02:11 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Millennium:
Screen saver + password + Sleep Now corner = locked screen.

If a system call exists to start the screensaver immediately (and it probably does exist), then someone could whip up a menu item to do this too.<hr /></blockquote>Try <a href="http://www.keyboardmaestro.com/" target="_blank">Keyboard Maestro</a> , it has a hot key action which you can use to active the screen saver with a keystroke.

As fae as menus go (which <a href="http://www.keyboardmaestro.com/" target="_blank">Keyboard Maestro</a> does do, sorry), you could place the screen saver application (dif into your System Folder) into your dock to be able to quickly launch it.

adamtki · Jun 24, 2002, 03:25 AM

SecretAgentX, I believe Jaguar is supposed to have a simple finder option. The lock feature would easily not be considered a simple finder feature.

Gee4orce · Jun 24, 2002, 03:29 AM

Hey - lets just lighten this up a little, OK ? There's no need for this kind of ranting.

Yes, you can lock the screen using a screensaver, but that's like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. There is definately a place for a screen-lock command, and especially a sleep-lock command (I alway sleep my laptop, never logout or shutdown, but I'd like it stil to be protected should it be stolen).

Some corporates won't even look at an OS if you cannot lock out the screen when you are away from the machine.