[spacefreak]

Here's the beginning of a letter written by a US serviceman in Iraq. His analysis pretty much sums up my disgust of the liberal media's portrayal of the war in Iraq.

Editors' Note: LTC Tim Ryan is Commander, Task Force 2-12 Cavalry, First Cavalry Division in Iraq. He led troops into battle in Fallujah late last year and is now involved in security operations for the upcoming elections. He wrote the following during "down time" after the Fallujah operation. His views are his own.

All right, I've had enough. I am tired of reading distorted and grossly exaggerated stories from major news organizations about the "failures" in the war in Iraq. "The most trusted name in news" and a long list of others continue to misrepresent the scale of events in Iraq. Print and video journalists are covering only a fraction of the events in Iraq and, more often than not, the events they cover are only negative.

The inaccurate picture they paint has distorted the world view of the daily realities in Iraq. The result is a further erosion of international support for the United States' efforts there, and a strengthening of the insurgents' resolve and recruiting efforts while weakening our own. Through their incomplete, uninformed and unbalanced reporting, many members of the media covering the war in Iraq are aiding and abetting the enemy.

Read the rest of the letter

[NYCFarmboy]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
Here's the beginning of the letter. The entire letter sums up my disgust of the liberal media's portrayal of the war in Iraq.

I think it is very exciting to have the elections coming and watching democracy flower in the middle east.

That drives the terrorists and their allies on the left and the press crazy, but it is a wonderful thing that the elections will happen.

[olePigeon]

You can ask two different soldiers and get two completely different answers.

Why are you accusing Democrats of being terrorists?

[chris v]

So all that bad stuff didn't really happen, then? I'm so relieved.

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by chris v:
So all that bad stuff didn't really happen, then? I'm so relieved.

Proof of how polarized this issue is.

[NYCFarmboy]

Originally posted by olePigeon:
You can ask two different soldiers and get two completely different answers.

Why are you accusing Democrats of being terrorists?

was that question to me?

I didn't accuse the Democrats of being terrorists.

I do accuse those who are opposed to democracy in Iraq of being on the side of the terrorists in Iraq.

why does it bother those on the left so much that there are going to be elections in Iraq?

[OldManMac]

That liberal media that's owned by the big old mean liberal Rupert Murdoch? Or the liberal media that's owned by the big old liberal media conglomerate Clear Channel Communications?

[OldManMac]

Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
was that question to me?

I didn't accuse the Democrats of being terrorists.

I do accuse those who are opposed to democracy in Iraq of being on the side of the terrorists in Iraq.

why does it bother those on the left so much that there are going to be elections in Iraq?

Doesn't bother me; I think it's great, except that not anywhere near all Iraqis are going to be able to participate, and it's going to be a lopsided election, where there is no accurate representation of the Iraqis wishes. The letter is wonderful, but it doesn't tell the whole story, either. He doesn't mention many areas of the country that still aren't under American control. He's trying to paint a rosy picture, and he's running out of red paint.

[SimpleLife]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
The inaccurate picture they paint has distorted the world view of the daily realities in Iraq. The result is a further erosion of international support for the United States' efforts there, and a strengthening of the insurgents' resolve and recruiting efforts while weakening our own.

erh...

What international support?

AFAICR, the U.S. barely had any support from day one, and the few it ogt dwindled quite fast.

As for "efforts", I thought the U.S. was a Hyperpower?

This is going nowhere fast.

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
I think it is very exciting to have the elections coming and watching democracy flower in the middle east.

Not to be a wet blanket, but one hotly contested election held in what is essentially a U.S. puppet state isn't the same thing as democracy flowering in the middle east. At best, it's hopefully a distant precursor to said flowering.

Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
That drives the terrorists and their allies on the left and the press crazy, but it is a wonderful thing that the elections will happen.

Yeah, liberals and reporters totally like seeing innocent people killed.

You know, it's this sort of nonsense that makes it hard to take anything you say seriously.

[chris v]

I'm SURE the resistance fighters get up each morning and say to themselves "I wouldn't have the strength to carry on against the overwhelming odds, if not for the fact that some liberals who post to a Mac message board opposed the U.S. invasion! That gives me encouragement!"

[NYCFarmboy]

Originally posted by KarlG:
Doesn't bother me; I think it's great, except that not anywhere near all Iraqis are going to be able to participate, and it's going to be a lopsided election, where there is no accurate representation of the Iraqis wishes. The letter is wonderful, but it doesn't tell the whole story, either. He doesn't mention many areas of the country that still aren't under American control. He's trying to paint a rosy picture, and he's running out of red paint.

I must say it is breathtaking to see how the left has already started to prejudge the election. (well after the U.S. elections I can see where the left may not be a fan of democracy)

members of the left have let their personal putrid hatred of George Bush cloud their hearts and minds to the point where they have left reality.

The left should be happy for Iraq that democracy is blooming and will create a beacon of hope & freedom in the middle east, instead all they can do is cry and moan that a election will take place.

I feel sorry for you.

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
The left should be happy for Iraq that democracy is blooming and will create a beacon of hope & freedom in the middle east, instead all they can do is cry and moan that a election will take place.

Quote a post in this thread where somebody says it's bad that an election will take place (note that this is not the same thing as saying there are problems with the organization of the election, that the election is having trouble getting off the ground, etc).

[NYCFarmboy]

Originally posted by Chuckit:
Quote a post in this thread where somebody says it's bad that an election will take place (note that this is not the same thing as saying there are problems with the organization of the election, that the election is having trouble getting off the ground, etc).

well lets let the election take place and see who wins?

I know the terrorists are pissed as hell there is going to be an election, because :::NEWSFLASH::: a vast majority of people in Iraq DON'T like the terrorists!

[SimpleLife]

Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
I feel sorry for you.

Maybe you should look at the number of dead people in Iraq there before feeling sorry for a person who's alive and (apparently) well.

[NYCFarmboy]

Originally posted by SimpleLife:
Maybe you should look at the number of dead people in Iraq there before feeling sorry for a person who's alive and (apparently) well.

In terms of the number of dead people in Iraq why don't you get a clue and see what went on under Sadaam if you are suddenly so concerned about the number of dead people?

It is real simple, if the people of Iraq don't want us there, they will vote in a government that will do just that.

I feel sorry for anyone who is upset that the election will take place.

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
well lets let the election take place and see who wins?

I know the terrorists are pissed as hell there is going to be an election, because :::NEWSFLASH::: a vast majority of people in Iraq DON'T like the terrorists!

Meaning, you can't find anybody who actually complained that there is going to be an election and you just pulled that whole "liberals are upset about it" thing out of your ass?

[SimpleLife]

Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
In terms of the number of dead people in Iraq why don't you get a clue and see what went on under Sadaam if you are suddenly so concerned about the number of dead people?

It is real simple, if the people of Iraq don't want us there, they will vote in a government that will do just that.

I feel sorry for anyone who is upset that the election will take place.

I am not sorry elections will take place.

I am sorry for the conditions in which they take place.

As for clue you seem to know what you are talking about so get it for us will you?

[Face Ache]

Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
why does it bother those on the left so much that there are going to be elections in Iraq?

Stop arguing with the voices in your head.

[OldManMac]

Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
I must say it is breathtaking to see how the left has already started to prejudge the election. (well after the U.S. elections I can see where the left may not be a fan of democracy)

members of the left have let their personal putrid hatred of George Bush cloud their hearts and minds to the point where they have left reality.

The left should be happy for Iraq that democracy is blooming and will create a beacon of hope & freedom in the middle east, instead all they can do is cry and moan that a election will take place.

I feel sorry for you.

Can I have some of that feel-good weed you're smoking? It apparently is very good at altering reality. Keep up with what's really happening in Iraq after you come down from the clouds. Very sad.

[NYCFarmboy]

Originally posted by KarlG:
Can I have some of that feel-good weed you're smoking? It apparently is very good at altering reality. Keep up with what's really happening in Iraq after you come down from the clouds. Very sad.

LOL

I don't know what it is that makes those on the left so negative, but hey..its a free country...you have a right to be sad.

you have a right to be unhappy about the elections in Iraq.

as I said earlier, lets see what the Iraqi people themselves have to say about their own destiny at the polls rather than moan about it.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
It is real simple, if the people of Iraq don't want us there, they will vote in a government that will do just that.

Do you *honestly* think the US is going to pack up and move out because of the wishes of the Iraqi electorate? Is Allawi going to say, "Gee, thanks for helping us out but we had a vote and you guys can leave now."

Maybe there is a referendum issue on the ballot for the Iraqi's asking them whether or not they want the the US military to stay there? I wish there had been one on our ballots back in November.

Nothing is ever real simple, except for those making such a claim.

[OldManMac]

Don't bring reality into this, dcmacdaddy; it might scare some.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by dcmacdaddy:
Do you *honestly* think the US is going to pack up and move out because of the wishes of the Iraqi electorate? Is Allawi going to say, "Gee, thanks for helping us out but we had a vote and you guys can leave now."

That would mean that the interests of the Iraqi people are in any way relevant to United States policy.

If they were, troops would have left a year ago, when the Iraqi population was saying, "Gee, thanks for helping us out but we're rid of Saddam and you guys can leave now."

It's real simple.

[eklipse]

4 Car Bombs in 90 minutes

Damn that media distortion!

What about all the cars that didn't explode during that time?!?!?!?!

Why aren't they reporting that!??!??!!!

[NYCFarmboy]

Originally posted by dcmacdaddy:
Do you *honestly* think the US is going to pack up and move out because of the wishes of the Iraqi electorate? Is Allawi going to say, "Gee, thanks for helping us out but we had a vote and you guys can leave now."

Maybe there is a referendum issue on the ballot for the Iraqi's asking them whether or not they want the the US military to stay there? I wish there had been one on our ballots back in November.

Nothing is ever real simple, except for those making such a claim.

Yes I honestly believe the coalition forces would pack up and leave at the wishes of the new Iraqi government elected in a few weeks when the new elected government would choose to do so. So let the election in Iraq decide that. (in my opinion)

I think it is a wonderful thing that the Iraqi people will make these decisions for the future of their country and constitution for themselves.

As to the question of the referendum, we did have one in the United States in November, it was called a presidential election.

[chris v]

Originally posted by eklipse:
4 Car Bombs in 90 minutes

Damn that media distortion!

What about all the cars that didn't explode during that time?!?!?!?!

Why aren't they reporting that!??!??!!!

You're encouraging the terrorists. Don't you know they're all logged into MacNN right now, just hoping for that sort of encouragement?

[badidea]

Wow, I can't find where this US serviceman wrote about the liberal media - it's only media without liberal!
Furthermore I can't find any "liberal" here saying anything about being against democratic elections in Iraq!

Still those are the points discussed here!?!

Does the Riddler really exist and did he sell his mind control machine to some suspicious government???

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
Yes I honestly believe the coalition forces would pack up and leave at the wishes of the new Iraqi government elected in a few weeks when the new elected government would choose to do so. So let the election in Iraq decide that. (in my opinion)

I think it is a wonderful thing that the Iraqi people will make these decisions for the future of their country and constitution for themselves.

As to the question of the referendum, we did have one in the United States in November, it was called a presidential election.

Well OK then, Let's see what happens with the elections. The question remains is to whether or not the US government will accede to such a request. My guess is no.

There will be reasons found to keep our troops over there longer. I really wish it would not be the case but I can't see our government leaders just pulling out now. We'll see.

[Curios Meerkat]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
Media's coverage has has distorted world's view of Iraqi reality

Yeah, when after "the largest concentration of heavy armour in one place, since the fall of Berlin" has been turned "loose in a city with no restrictions";

After hospitals have been declared legitimate targets, because they are "centers of propaganda";

After napalm, white phosphorous and cluster bombs have been used, and allegedly even chemical weapons;

After the administration has given a green light to torture, denying any report of it until photographic evidence surfaced, and then only punishing a handful of low-ranking scapegoats;

After collective punishment has been exercised, entire villages surrounded with barbed wires, etc. etc. etc;

When, after all that, people post here pretending it's "the most PC war ever fought", and that "Iraqis are now free" it's clear that the media coverage has been sub-standard.

But that's hardly surprising, with most of the media concentrated in the hands of a few conglomerates that make billions out of weapon sales.

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by Curios Meerkat:
Yeah, when after "the largest concentration of heavy armour in one place, since the fall of Berlin" has been turned "loose in a city with no restrictions";

After hospitals have been declared legitimate targets, because they are "centers of propaganda";

After napalm, white phosphorous and cluster bombs have been used, and allegedly even chemical weapons;

After the administration has given a green light to torture, denying any report of it until photographic evidence surfaced, and then only punishing a handful of low-ranking scapegoats;

After collective punishment has been exercised, entire villages surrounded with barbed wires, etc. etc. etc;

When, after all that, people post here pretending it's "the most PC war ever fought", and that "Iraqis are now free" it's clear that the media coverage has been sub-standard.

But that's hardly surprising, with most of the media concentrated in the hands of a few conglomerates that make billions out of weapon sales.

Nice sources. And yes, I'm saying HRW is a joke.

[Salah al-Din]

Originally posted by MacNStein:
Nice sources. And yes, I'm saying HRW is a joke.

Can you prove them wrong?

[Kodachrome]

Originally posted by Salah al-Din:
Can you prove them wrong?

I think that is obvious?

[Curios Meerkat]

Feel free to believe that something is not true just because somebody you don't like reports it.

[Salah al-Din]

Originally posted by Kodachrome:
I think that is obvious?

In what way?

[BoomStick]

Originally posted by Curios Meerkat:
Yeah, when after "the largest concentration of heavy armour in one place, since the fall of Berlin" has been turned "loose in a city with no restrictions";

After hospitals have been declared legitimate targets, because they are "centers of propaganda";

After napalm, white phosphorous and cluster bombs have been used, and allegedly even chemical weapons;

After the administration has given a green light to torture, denying any report of it until photographic evidence surfaced, and then only punishing a handful of low-ranking scapegoats;

After collective punishment has been exercised, entire villages surrounded with barbed wires, etc. etc. etc;

Stop it, you're getting me all excited!

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by Curios Meerkat:
Feel free to believe that something is not true just because somebody you don't like reports it.

Same goes for you, Sunshine.

[Curios Meerkat]

Yeah, shnucks to you too

[Kodachrome]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
Here's the beginning of a letter written by a US serviceman in Iraq. His analysis pretty much sums up my disgust of the liberal media's portrayal of the war in Iraq.

refreshing to read the truth for a change.

[OldManMac]

Here's some real truth, not the stuff that the timid U. S. media prints, in order to not agitate the government's corporate backers.

http://www.commondreams.org/cgi-bin/...05/0120-02.htm

Published on Thursday, January 20, 2005 by the Sydney Morning Herald (Australia)
Voter Turnout Won't Be Enough to Legitimize Election
As the US tries to cook the books, Iraq may be heading for civil war
by Paul McGeough


There is something truly remarkable about the Iraqi human spirit. Cast around for a comparison of the numbers that might vote next Sunday and Afghanistan is a good choice.

There, more than 10.5 million signed up last year in a security environment that made a mockery of the international observance of fragile polls when only a handful of monitors was brave enough to set foot in the country - but was not courageous enough to go beyond the capital.

Iraq does not have the same voter registration process because Saddam's old food-distribution register is being co-opted for this fraught experiment.

It suggests that about 15 million Iraqis are eligible to vote amid a savage insurgency that makes Afghanistan look like the proverbial Sunday school picnic - and with not a single international observer daring to cross the border from Jordan.

But we know this - more than 3 million Iraqis have ventured from their homes to go to electoral offices to correct data on Saddam's old food list and another 1.2 million people have made new registrations. Given the appalling security conditions on top of the seething anger at the failure of the US-led effort to rebuild this country, it would be remarkable if just these 4 million-plus turned out.

But despite car bombings such as the ones that killed 26 people on Wednesday - one of which was detonated near the Australian embassy - the targeted assassination or abduction of candidates and party officials, electoral and security workers, and the promise of more intimidation by bombing on polling day, the chances are that more will probably vote. But they are unlikely to vote in high enough numbers to legitimize the process.

True to form, the Americans and the puppet regime they have installed are cooking the books. Senior US officials and interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi repeatedly insist that all is well because insecurity will restrict voting in "only four of Iraq's 18 provinces".

Four out of 18 is a little over 20 per cent and in the circumstances might be acceptable. But the truth is very different. Anywhere between 40 and 50 per cent of the population live in those four provinces. It like insisting on the legitimacy of an Australian federal election when an army of thousands of gunmen is setting out to thwart the vote in NSW, Western Australia and Tasmania.

The Sunni turnout is expected to be as low as 10 to 15 per cent and because the US-crafted election calls for a national count, rather than one based on votes for local candidates, the Sunni vote will be swamped by the 60-plus per cent Shiite majority who are being instructed that voting is a religious duty.

And wouldn't you know it - the Americans now claim that the turnout doesn't count.

In the same way that the White House claims the failure to find Saddam's weapons of mass destruction in no way detracts from the decision to invade Iraq, the line at a background press briefing last week was this: "I would really encourage people not to focus on numbers, which in themselves don't have any meaning, but to look on the outcome and to look at the government that will be the product of these elections."

Such is the level of fear that Iraqis still have not been told where they will be voting or who they will be voting for. The party names for 111 "slates" of candidates are known, but the names of 19,000 individual candidates for seats in the National Assembly and for provincial councils are being withheld to prevent them being targeted by the insurgency.

But coupled with a weak media and the absence of any genuine policy debate, the likely effect in a tribal and religious society is the outcome the Americans didn't want - many voters will resort to religious and tribal edicts, decrees and urgings on how they should vote, thereby locking in Iraq's sectarian divide and perhaps setting the scene for the full-blown civil war that some observers now fear is inevitable.

Over tea and sweets to celebrate the start of the Muslim Eid al-Adha commemoration in Amman on Wednesday evening, Naseer Al Obeid, who is a professor of physics and a tribal sheik in the Sunni city of Ramadi, told me with seeming regret: "It's back to the old tribal system - this is what happens in the absence of central government. This election will do nothing - things will stay bad or get worse."

There is endless debate in the US and in the region about Washington's Iraq options - press on with or postpone the poll; stay the distance or exit as soon as it might be done half-decently afterwards.

But it's too late for such hand-wringing. As a British official explained to Time magazine this week: "If we delay by two, three or six months, one month before [the new] election day we would be in exactly the same position we are now - but with an extra 1000 people dead and the violence more sophisticated." The Iraq truth, which should have been considered before it was too late, is that Washington has no options. The invasion of Iraq was the start of a sorry, organic mess that now must run its own brutal course.

[olePigeon]

Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
why does it bother those on the left so much that there are going to be elections in Iraq?

I'd be very happy if/when the Iraqis have a free, democratic election. I'm glad that Saddam Hussein is no longer in power. The problem, however, isn't about the elections, it's about the war itself and how we got there. George Bush used September 11th as a scapegoat to fuel support for his war in Iraq. Republicans will say he didn't lie, but he and his administration certainly lead people down the wrong path on purpose.

Now all the right-wing people can say is "that was in the past, we're stuck in a war now, why don't you help out?"

It's like standing by and watching a woman get raped, then five minutes later tell her it's in the past, so deal with it. I can't do that. I'll never support this war to any end. I do what I can to support our troops. They don't make the policies after all, and it's not anyone's fault but the administration that they're in the sh*t hole they're in now.

[busterhide]

Talk is cheap, how about some original ideas about what to do about this mess. It is too easy to criticize others for mistakes or blunders. The milk has spilled. We ether stand and point at the mess and point and point or we clean it up. How about putting some effort into solutions instead of screaming "But he spilled the milk on purpose."
How ever it happened it is not going to go away unless some one cleans it up. Pointing out stories and trying to make points is wonderful. Oh but the mess is still there. You make points you lose points the score card does not a solution make. New ideas, possible solutions, actually doing something to fix what is broken well that is a bit harder then just talking about what a mess it is.

[icydanger]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
Here's the beginning of a letter written by a US serviceman in Iraq. His analysis pretty much sums up my disgust of the liberal media's portrayal of the war in Iraq.

The world view? this thread should be about how difficult it is to report from bloody Iraq.

[Curios Meerkat]

Originally posted by busterhide:
Talk is cheap, how about some original ideas about what to do about this mess. It is too easy to criticize others for mistakes or blunders. The milk has spilled. We ether stand and point at the mess and point and point or we clean it up. How about putting some effort into solutions instead of screaming "But he spilled the milk on purpose."
How ever it happened it is not going to go away unless some one cleans it up. Pointing out stories and trying to make points is wonderful. Oh but the mess is still there. You make points you lose points the score card does not a solution make. New ideas, possible solutions, actually doing something to fix what is broken well that is a bit harder then just talking about what a mess it is.

I wholeheartedly agree. Problem is, the administration, the original poster and a (vocal!) minority on this board have yet to acknowledge that the milk has spilled.

You'll never going to fix the mess as long you keep telling yourself the milk is still in the can.

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by busterhide:
Talk is cheap, how about some original ideas about what to do about this mess. It is too easy to criticize others for mistakes or blunders. The milk has spilled. We ether stand and point at the mess and point and point or we clean it up. How about putting some effort into solutions instead of screaming "But he spilled the milk on purpose."

If somebody is spilling your milk on purpose, I think the first thing to do would be to forcibly eject him from your house. Clean up the spilled milk once he's stopped throwing it around.

[olePigeon]

Getting Republicans to admit they f*cked up is like getting Jesus to admit he's gay.

[Chuckit]

It's not like I'm getting a lot of "Sorry for the ****-up, y'all!" letters from Democrats, either.

Politicians are politicians. Every one of 'em.

[chris v]

Originally posted by busterhide:
Talk is cheap, how about some original ideas about what to do about this mess. It is too easy to criticize others for mistakes or blunders. The milk has spilled. We ether stand and point at the mess and point and point or we clean it up. How about putting some effort into solutions instead of screaming "But he spilled the milk on purpose."
How ever it happened it is not going to go away unless some one cleans it up. Pointing out stories and trying to make points is wonderful. Oh but the mess is still there. You make points you lose points the score card does not a solution make. New ideas, possible solutions, actually doing something to fix what is broken well that is a bit harder then just talking about what a mess it is.

Here's an idea-- Fire the bastards who made the mess! Duh.

[idjeff]

Originally posted by chris v:
Here's an idea-- Fire the bastards who made the mess! Duh.

Oh! You mean Saddam? He's outta there.

[NYCFarmboy]

Originally posted by idjeff:
Oh! You mean Saddam? He's outta there.