[spacefreak]

Seeing that so many are on the bash-Wal-Mart bandwagon, I'm curious to see how this plays out here.

The stark reality of iPod's Chinese factories
Workers live in dormitories on the site, 100 to a room, arriving with a few possessions and a bucket to wash their clothes. The accommodation may be free, but it comes at a cost – no one outside the plant is allowed to visit the workers.

Security is high everywhere, but especially in the five-storey E3 factory which makes the Nanos.

Police – not security guards – are stationed on all gates, studiously checking those entering and leaving the site to thwart rivals intent on industrial espionage.

Zang Lan, 21, from Zhengzhou in central China, has worked on the Apple assembly line for a month. Her 15-hour days earn her £27 a month – about half the wage weavers earned in Liverpool and Manchester in 1805, allowing for inflation.

This is low, even for China, but Zhengzhou is a particularly poor region so workers would accept even less.

'The job here is so-so,' Zang Lan says. 'We have to work too hard and I am always tired. It's like being in the army. They make us stand still for hours. If we move we are punished by being made to stand still for longer.

The boys are made to do push-ups.' Every morning the workers, in beige jackets to denote their junior status, are taken up to the factory roof for a military-style drill.

'We have to work overtime if we are told to and can only go back to the dormitories when our boss gives us permission,' says Zang Lan. 'If they ask for overtime we must do it.

After working 15 hours until 11.30pm, we feel so tired.' Foxconn, one of the world's biggest IT companies, is currently investing £31million in plants in Beijing and Suzhou to take advantage of China's cheap workforce.

[Oozinator]

mmmm... my itunes playlist sounds even better now that I know all that music goes through wonderful, digitized, orphan's tears.

[ghporter]

This plant isn't OWNED by Apple, but rather by a contractor for Apple; Foxconn owns the plant, and is responsible for the conditions there. That makes a difference. It doesn't excuse the people in Cupertino from responsibility for maintaining those conditions, but it does excuse them from responsibility for CAUSING the conditions.

Further, the Chinese have a history of drill and exercise before work, similar to the way many Japanese companies used to do this. It's part of the "manufacturing culture" they have adopted. As is mandatory overtime. The Chinese government wants to "become and remain competitive," so they actively encourage productivity while minimizing worker-centered concerns. In China, they have millions of people who would like this sort of job, so burning out workers is not a concern for them. Not an excuse here, but it's not like they made this particular factory particularly draconian, or signifcantly worse than other factories there.

[TETENAL]

Apple - Report on iPod Manufacturing

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

Apple - Report on iPod Manufacturing

to Apple for that!

[spacefreak]

Wow - you can get a person working (30) 15-hour days for $40.00 or so. What a bargain.

Unfortunately, I couldn't see on Apple's website where I can purchase some of this labor. Are these rates available to all?

[Buckaroo]

Wow, my iPod sounds even better now that I know I'm getting even a better bargain. This is great. If you have a problem with China's policies, why don't you go to China and protest, and you'll be making iPods with 105 hour weeks for $40.

[ghporter]

Comparing apples to oranges (or North American workers and working conditions to Chinese workers and working conditions) is inappropriate. These are good jobs and there are lots of people willing and eager to take them if they qualify for them. They are not jobs that I'd want, but I'm a softie myself. And actually, after the long time I've spent in the work force as a salaried person with expectations (expressed and implied) that I'd better work extra even if there wasn't anything to do, their situation seems almost refreshing-it's a long work week, but they get paid quite well and generally have simple, direct instructions of what they are required to do. That's better than I had for more than half of my previous career.

[spacefreak]

Originally Posted by Buckaroo

Wow, my iPod sounds even better now that I know I'm getting even a better bargain. This is great. If you have a problem with China's policies, why don't you go to China and protest, and you'll be making iPods with 105 hour weeks for $40.

That's not the case at all.

My gripe is with those here who claim to be for all humanity, and they bash Wal-Mart to the tilt. But when their favorite computer company employs, or "outsources" labor to get 105-hour work weeks for $40 from a person, all of a sudden those whiners are MIA.

If I were Apple I'd do the same thing. But then again, I'm not one of the Wal-Mart bashers, either.

[KeriVit]

We didn't create this work environment. We use it.

We don't eat dogs and cats, but some do.

I don't want anyone tortured or suffering, but work is work and it's relative.

Too bad the US dollar is worth next to nothing.

I'll give you an example of my perspective.

My partner works in Iraq for 10K a month.

Her "nurses" from India make $1500 a month and are able to buy house and support their family in exceeding amts.

One cannot compare pay elsewhere to our own dollar or situation.

It's all relative.

[spacefreak]

Ok - so "one cannot compare pay elsewhere" to our own. I agree with that. Can one compare time?

Apple's outsourced iPod workers work abut 105 hours a week. Wal-Mart's employees top out at 40 hours. Yet one can still trash Wal-Mart's evil workplace conditions while at the same time supporting Apple's use of overworked factory labor?

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by Apple

We found no instances of forced overtime and employees confirmed in interviews that they could decline overtime requests without penalty. We did, however, find that employees worked longer hours than permitted by our Code of Conduct, which limits normal workweeks to 60 hours and requires at least one day off each week......The supplier has enacted a policy change to enforce the weekly overtime limits set by our Code of Conduct. The policy change has been communicated to supervisors and employees and a management system has been implemented to track compliance with the Code of Conduct. Supervisors must receive approval from upper level management for any deviation.

Did you read the Apple link?

[spacefreak]

What - that now, after years of violation of this "Code of Conduct", Apple is ready to find them in violation? And what is the penalty for this violation - a dismissal of the contract? Or just a gentlemen's agreement of a wink and a nod?

Just like the Wal-Mart bashers who turn their iPods up when truths about Apple-funded employees come out, there is also an interesting absence of the anti-outsourcing crowd in this thread.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by spacefreak

Wow - you can get a person working (30) 15-hour days for $40.00 or so. What a bargain.

Unfortunately, I couldn't see on Apple's website where I can purchase some of this labor. Are these rates available to all?

Of course they are, provided you manufacture in volume.

What is surprising about this? Why the hell do you think your DVD player cost $30? Or that a mid-range laptop used to cost $4000 and now costs $1000?

This is to be expected, and it will change once skills and economic conditions in China change and wages rise. Same as in India, where wages have risen to the point that they're actually importing their Saris from Chinese textile factories now, which are cheaper..

[iREZ]

the nano plant you refer to couldnt have been out for 'years' the nano's only been out for a year, IF THAT...and apple doesnt run the companies who run these places. fact is, walmart does a hell of a lot worse than just their international recklessness...try looking in just your backyard. they get enormous subsidies and when tax time comes they skip out of town and move on the border of the next close city over to avoid paying taxes, but still maintain the same customer base (whats a mile or two). they pay their workers zilch, they conspire against unions...even just talking bout em, their managers are trained to train new employees to take advantage of gov't assistance when it comes to health insurance (this really could go on). apple isnt angelic, but walmart > satan.

[King Bob On The Cob]

Now the thing is, if Apple cancels this contract, are all those people out of work? That's exceptionally brutal considering the conditions in China. Many of them would not be able to feed their family if you nix their job because they don't meet your American work ideals. Don't fret either, every country goes through what I've termed as "Crappy Factory Working Conditions" at some point on the way to becoming an industrialized nation. US did, Japan did, UK did, South Korea did. This is an important step as it introduces taxable wealth into the country which can be invested into such things as schools, hospitals, and other public services.

[molala]

I'm glad that Apple made their own investigation, it's a start. Standards of living, wages, work hours, and work practices are different per country. I don't think Apple is abusing its Chinese factory workers, but I hope they can be more generous to them somehow with all the profit they're making from the iPod. For instance, they could pay more than minimum wage or give bonuses or improve their dormitories.

As much as I would appreciate an iPod made completely in the U.S. by U.S. workers treated and paid well, it isn't going to happen. That is, of course, you're willing to shell out $1000.00 for an iPod you pay $300.00 for now.

I make smart, unextravagant purchasing decisions, buy what I need and keep those things I do buy for a long time. Although it doesn't make a huge dent in the Chinese manufacturing trade, I hope it makes my personal footprint a little bit smaller.

I do think that Wal-Mart's "cheap is best" policy in products perpetuates the Chinese labor market and problems by causing a load of replacement purchases to be made by consumers, thereby, increasing the amount of items that need to be manufactured.

[turtle777]

Duh. Maybe you should read ALL the news on this topic.

WalMart: doesn't care
Apple: does care.

What a huge difference.

-t

[spacefreak]

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

Duh. Maybe you should read ALL the news on this topic.

WalMart: doesn't care
Apple: does care.

Dude, Apple's playing you like a fiddle.

[krillbee]

Apple is definately trying to keep their PR image high.

But who really knows what is going through the heads of the brains running the corporation and what is actually happening.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by spacefreak

Dude, Apple's playing you like a fiddle.

WalMart isn't. So who is better ?

I pick Apple.

-t

[Spliffdaddy]

Slave labor and stock scandals - brought to you by Apple.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

Slave labor and stock scandals - brought to you by Apple.

Great hyperbole

[PER3]

Here's a bunch of stories about iPod City as well as some photographs. The food sure looks good (it's free), and the pharmacy seems pretty clean and modern. Not so keen on the dorms. Interesting read:

EastSouthWestNorth: A Chinese View of iPod City

[turtle777]

You Anti-WalMart or Apple guys are aware that almost everything in the USA comes from China these days, expect those things that come from Mexico.

LOL.

-t