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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > More on the French 'Train Of Hate' hoax

More on the French 'Train Of Hate' hoax
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Spheric Harlot
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Jul 13, 2004, 09:55 AM
 
perry went and broke the forum.
     
perryp8
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Jul 13, 2004, 09:55 AM
 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3889549.stm


Doubts are growing about a reported anti-Semitic attack on a woman and her baby that stunned France.

Police have found no evidence or witnesses, four days after the alleged assault took place on a train in the suburbs of Paris.

The 23-year-old woman said six men cut her clothes and drew swastikas on her body, accusing her of being Jewish.

It sparked widespread condemnation amid concern that racist and anti-Semitic attacks are on the rise in France.

Police are advising caution as their investigations continue, noting that there are some contradictions in the woman's account.

The woman said she was attacked on a suburban train on Friday. The gang, who mistook her for a Jew, cut her hair, slashed her clothes and daubed her body with swastikas, she said.

Video studied
The men, described as of North African appearance, are also said to have tipped her 13-month-old baby from her pram. According to the woman, about 20 people could have seen the attack but so far no-one has come forward.

Investigators have also been studying footage from surveillance cameras at the train station where the six alleged attackers were supposed to have got out but have found nothing.

French media report that the young woman has filed several complaints in the past about being the victim of violence.

The reported brutality of the attack on the woman, its anti-Semitic character and the fact that no-one came to her help provoked outrage.

It also added to growing concern over racist and anti-Semitic attacks.

President Jacques Chirac, who condemned the assault as "shameful", said he would deny clemency to any prisoner serving time for a racist crime.

Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin said: "Anti-Semitism is a disgrace. We want to fight this kind of intolerable racism."
     
Logic
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Jul 13, 2004, 09:55 AM
 
It's all a conspiracy I tell ya'll!!!!


edit: didn't see perry's post above. :starts reading:

"If Bush says we hate freedom, let him tell us why we didn't attack Sweden, for example. OBL 29th oct
     
Spheric Harlot  (op)
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Jul 13, 2004, 10:16 AM
 
There was a case in Germany a couple of years back where a girl in a wheelchair made headline news with an almost identical story - except that they carved a swastika in her forehead with a KNIFE.

Two weeks later, after being called on conflicting details, she admitted to having self-inflicted the wound and having made up the attack.

-s*
     
Zimphire
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Jul 13, 2004, 10:45 AM
 
And these are fake too



Not saying that story is true.

But there is something going on weird in France.
     
Zimphire
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Jul 13, 2004, 10:49 AM
 
Originally posted by Logic:
edit: didn't see perry's post above. :starts reading:
The board was punishing him for starting a topic that is already in effect.
     
perryp8
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Jul 13, 2004, 10:50 AM
 
here was a case in Germany a couple of years back where a girl in a wheelchair made headline news with an almost identical story - except that they carved a swastika in her forehead with a KNIFE.
On her cheek actually: http://www.tanyaury.com/franco/franco.htm

Similar hoaxes from here: http://www.claremont.org/weblog/001134.html

Professor of psychology returns to her car, parked in a college lot, to find it vandalized with racist and anti-Semitic slogans. She had just delivered a lecture on such pathologies. The President of Claremont McKenna College (CMC) decrees classes cancelled for the following day, with an evening rally against hate. Much of the rally turns into a two-minutes hate rant against hate. "Dead white male" courses are dead meat. The head of the Claremont Colleges' Jewish organization tried to think of five reasons he wasn't in Nazi Germany and could come up with only four. And so it went.

Now it appears the vandalism was self-inflicted, according to two eyewitnesses. The President of CMC is having the professor's contract reviewed:

"While this information certainly comes as a shock and surprise to our community, Claremont McKenna College remains committed to its mission as an undergraduate residential college in which academic freedom and free speech are wholeheartedly supported, and in which all individuals feel welcome to study and teach here, and free to express their viewpoints, thoughts, and ideas."


10/89:
In Binghamton, NY, swastikas and slogans (including "Kill Kikes" and "Zionazi Racist") are found inside the door leading to the Jewish Student Union of the State University. However, the New York Times of November 15, 1989, reports that the culprit is none other than the former president of the Jewish Student Union, James Oppenheimer, who lead the pack in condemning the vandalism


28/88:
It seemed a clear case of vandalism when swastikas appeared for a fourth time in the hallway of a Yonkers woman who supported a controversial desegregation plan, accompanied this time by death threats. By December 1, however, the culprit turns out to be no one else but the victim herself, Laurie Recht. (New York Daily News)


11/24/85:
After rocks were thrown through the windows of eight Jewish-owned shops in an apparent encore performance of similar acts two weeks earlier, Mayor Ed Koch and Jewish groups spring into action with an offer of $15,000 for information about the culprit. We do not know who collected the reward, but the vandal turns out to be 38-year-old Gary Dworkin, a Jewish resident of Boro Park.
     
Zimphire
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Jul 13, 2004, 10:52 AM
 
Perry, those happened 20 years ago.

But at least Jacque wont stand for the Jew haters in France. That is a good thing,

President Jacques Chirac, who condemned the assault as "shameful", said he would deny clemency to any prisoner serving time for a racist crime.

Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin said: "Anti-Semitism is a disgrace. We want to fight this kind of intolerable racism."
     
lil'babykitten
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Jul 13, 2004, 11:01 AM
 
Originally posted by Zimphire:
But there is something going on weird in France.
Yeah, it's called ignorance. And it's on the increase in all parts of the world, not just France, because people don't/don't want to understand today's problematic issues.
     
Spheric Harlot  (op)
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Jul 13, 2004, 11:04 AM
 
Originally posted by Zimphire:
Perry, those happened 20 years ago.

But at least Jacque wont stand for the Jew haters in France. That is a good thing,
[/B]
The point isn't that there is no anti-Semitism in France, Europe, or the United States.

Can't you discuss this without pulling the "ANTI-SEMITE!!!" card for what it may well be: An act of attention whoring for whatever reason, despicable for deliberately employing one of the most sensitive social issues, sure to bring up nothing but hatred either way?

-s*
     
phoenixboy70
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Jul 13, 2004, 11:08 AM
 
Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Yeah, it's called ignorance. And it's on the increase in all parts of the world, not just France, because people don't/don't want to understand today's problematic issues.
     
perryp8
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Jul 13, 2004, 11:08 AM
 
Originally posted by Zimphire:
Perry, those happened 20 years ago.
[/B]
March 2004 is 20 years ago? Anyway, I'm sure it's the hoaxing has been going on for far longer than 20 years
     
Zimphire
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Jul 13, 2004, 11:16 AM
 
Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
The point isn't that there is no anti-Semitism in France, Europe, or the United States.

Can't you discuss this without pulling the "ANTI-SEMITE!!!" card for what it may well be: An act of attention whoring for whatever reason, despicable for deliberately employing one of the most sensitive social issues, sure to bring up nothing but hatred either way?

-s*
WTH? I was praising his efforts.

You just won the knee-jerk award.

I suggest a higher fiber diet for you.
     
Spheric Harlot  (op)
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Jul 13, 2004, 11:20 AM
 
'kay.
     
perryp8
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Jul 13, 2004, 01:40 PM
 

4 MORE YEARS!
     
PacHead
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Jul 13, 2004, 01:43 PM
 
Originally posted by perryp8:
hoaxer detained: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3891425.stm
Yes, it does look like this story is fishy.

However, the fact remains that these sort of attacks are on the rise in France, regardless of this particular story or not.
     
perryp8
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Jul 13, 2004, 01:55 PM
 
Originally posted by PacHead:
Yes, it does look like this story is fishy.
This is what you said before:
And all those brave french people on the train did a nice job of stepping in or coming to the woman's defense.

The woman and her baby wasn't even jewish, but I suppose the 6 barbarians who attacked her probably had a good reason for what they did.

4 MORE YEARS!
     
PacHead
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Jul 13, 2004, 01:59 PM
 
Originally posted by perryp8:
This is what you said before:
Yeah, so what. If the woman is a hoaxer is that my fault ? If the press publishes something which is not true, is that my fault ?

I stand by what I wrote.

It's not like the scenario is unthinkable. Those things happen often in France.
     
perryp8
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Jul 13, 2004, 02:06 PM
 
Originally posted by PacHead:
Yeah, so what. If the woman is a hoaxer is that my fault ? If the press publishes something which is not true, is that my fault ?

I stand by what I wrote.
Ha! Don't let reality get in the way when you're thinking PacHoax.

You stand by this...
And all those brave french people on the train did a nice job of stepping in or coming to the woman's defense.

The woman and her baby wasn't even jewish, but I suppose the 6 barbarians who attacked her probably had a good reason for what they did.

4 MORE YEARS!
     
Zimphire
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Jul 13, 2004, 02:08 PM
 
Originally posted by PacHead:
However, the fact remains that these sort of attacks are on the rise in France, regardless of this particular story or not.
I'd like to see some honest statistics on that.

If a bunch of people are doing this, then said statistics would be flawed.

I really have no clue as to why this person would be doing this. Other than attention. Which is probably the case.
     
PacHead
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Jul 13, 2004, 02:09 PM
 
Originally posted by perryp8:
Ha! Don't let reality get in the way when you're thinking PacHoax.

You stand by this...
PacHoax ? You make it sound like I am the one who is perpatrating a hoax here.

I wrote my comments based on the original newstory.

Blame the media, if you have a problem with their reporting.
     
Spheric Harlot  (op)
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Jul 13, 2004, 02:14 PM
 
Originally posted by perryp8:
Ha! Don't let reality get in the way when you're thinking PacHoax.

You stand by this...
Frankly, I was thinking much the same (though without the idiotic obligatory "brave French" snipe) before the story was called into question.

Though the idea that six guys could attack a woman with a child in a train without anybody doing/saying *anything* is, of course, one of the aspects that cast doubt upon her story in the first place.

-s*
     
PacHead
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Jul 13, 2004, 02:19 PM
 
Originally posted by Zimphire:
I'd like to see some honest statistics on that.

If a bunch of people are doing this, then said statistics would be flawed.

I really have no clue as to why this person would be doing this. Other than attention. Which is probably the case.
France facing anti-semitic attacks

Ira assault triggers anti-Semitic backlash in France

In France there was a sixfold increase in anti-semitic incidents in 2002

What's causing the anti-semitic attacks ?

Statistics show a deep rise in anti-semitic incidents....


Those are just a couple I found in a quick google.
     
perryp8
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Jul 13, 2004, 02:20 PM
 
Originally posted by PacHead:
PacHoax ? You make it sound like I am the one who is perpatrating a hoax here.

I wrote my comments based on the original newstory.

Blame the media, if you have a problem with their reporting.
No, I blame you PacHoax for your comments. You wrote them. You have subsequently said you stand by what you wrote. Explain how you can do 'stand by' such idiocy. You can't blame the media, you have to think for yourself - and take responsibility for what you write.

4 MORE YEARS!
     
Zimphire
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Jul 13, 2004, 02:30 PM
 
     
PacHead
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Jul 13, 2004, 02:31 PM
 
Originally posted by perryp8:
No, I blame you PacHoax for your comments. You wrote them. You have subsequently said you stand by what you wrote. Explain how you can do 'stand by' such idiocy. You can't blame the media, you have to think for yourself - and take responsibility for what you write.
Hey, pettyp8, I do stand by and take repsonsibility for what I wrote.

Let me make this clear for you one last time, because I have no desire to converse with annoying people.

I wrote my comments based on the original news story. If it turns out that the story was a hoax, then so be it, I haven't done anything wrong.

I'm not going to apologize for anything, least of all to somebody like you, with your petty insults.
     
Zimphire
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Jul 13, 2004, 02:31 PM
 
Originally posted by perryp8:
No, I blame you PacHoax for your comments. You wrote them. You have subsequently said you stand by what you wrote. Explain how you can do 'stand by' such idiocy. You can't blame the media, you have to think for yourself - and take responsibility for what you write.
When he wrote what he did, the story was different. It is not his fault that the police hadn't told anyone that they felt it was a hoax till later.

Please stop the spazzing.
     
PacHead
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Jul 13, 2004, 02:32 PM
 
Originally posted by Zimphire:
     
perryp8
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Jul 13, 2004, 02:35 PM
 
Originally posted by PacHead:
I'm not going to apologize for anything
How you can 'stand by' what you wrote amazes me. I'm embarrassed on your behalf

4 MORE YEARS!
     
Zimphire
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Jul 13, 2004, 02:39 PM
 
Originally posted by perryp8:
How you can 'stand by' what you wrote amazes me. I'm embarrassed on your behalf
You really have no room to talk. Some of us remember your little anti-Jew tantrum you threw in here when you first registered.

Funny to see which threads bring you back with a new username.

For some reason, they always have to do with Jews.
     
perryp8
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Jul 13, 2004, 02:51 PM
 
Originally posted by Zimphire:
Funny to see which threads bring you back with a new username.
Funny to see which hoaxes you fall for.

4 MORE YEARS!
     
Zimphire
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Jul 13, 2004, 02:52 PM
 
Originally posted by perryp8:
Funny to see which hoaxes you fall for.
I guess you were laughing at most of the French then too eh?

Stop being a spaz.
     
perryp8
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Jul 13, 2004, 02:55 PM
 
Originally posted by Zimphire:
I guess you were laughing at most of the French then too eh?
No, I was laughing at you.

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Zimphire
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Jul 13, 2004, 02:56 PM
 
Originally posted by perryp8:
No, I was laughing at you.
Yes, but since they fell for it too, wouldn't it be just as funny?

     
perryp8
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Jul 13, 2004, 02:58 PM
 
Originally posted by Zimphire:
Yes, but since they fell for it too, wouldn't it be just as funny?
Keep falling for them. Did you fall for WMD too?

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Zimphire
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Jul 13, 2004, 02:59 PM
 
Originally posted by perryp8:
Keep falling for them. Did you fall for WMD too?
You didn't answer my question.
     
perryp8
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Jul 13, 2004, 03:02 PM
 
And the Iraq-Bin Laden connection?

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Zimphire
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Jul 13, 2004, 03:07 PM
 
Originally posted by perryp8:
And the Iraq-Bin Laden connection?
     
   
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