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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Desktops > It's actually happening to me!

It's actually happening to me!
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cmer
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Jan 13, 2006, 02:28 AM
 
I've been dissing Macs pretty much all my life... I just hated them. But since OS/X came out, I have the burning desire to get one! These new Macs are simply amazing!

I just saw what I think is a very decent deal for an iMac, and I am -seriously- considering buying it. It's an iMac G5 1.8ghz, 256 megs of ram, 20" monitor, 160GB for $1050 (brand new, of course).

I just wanted to check with you Mac gurus to make sure it's a decent deal. I also have the following questions if you don't mind me asking:

1. My current machine is a P4 2.6 with 2 gigs of ram. I'll upgrade the Mac to 1 gigs. How much slower/faster will the iMac be compared to my PC? Also, are Mactels really such an improvement over G5s? The price seems much higher...

2. I do a lot of Windows development using Visual Studio (2003-2005). I will obviously need to install Virtual PC to run XP. Is the speed of a virtual machine comparable to running XP as a virtual machine in VMWare (or VirtualPC) on an XP-based machine? Is running XP in a virtual machine so painful that I'll miss my good old Windows PC?

3. What's the freeware/open source software availability like on the Mac?

4. The salesmen suggested I get AppleCare (which is obviously good for his paycheck). What do you think of this? I usually keep my computers for 1-2 years.

Thanks a lot for your help, it's very appreciated!

Carl
     
mduell
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Jan 13, 2006, 02:51 AM
 
1. Faster for some things, slower for others. The Intel iMacs are priced the exact same as the current G5 iMacs.

2. The performance of Virtual PC is miserable. You'd be better off keeping a 500Mhz Windows box in the corner and using it via RDC or VNC.

3. Generally good, espically for popular programs.

4. For an iMac you're only going to keep 1-2 years, I'd pass. You can buy it any time during the first year if you decide you want it.
     
cmer  (op)
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Jan 13, 2006, 02:56 AM
 
Mark,

First of all, thanks for the reply! You said that Intel iMacs are priced the same... does that mean that $1050 for a 20" G5 is not a good deal? I doubt I can find a similar setup with an Intel processor for that price... Does that price sound any goood to you? I've also seen a few great deals on ebay...

Is VPC performance -really- that bad or you were just trying to prove your point? Vmware and VPC's performance on Windows are not great, but definately a lot better than a 500mhz box!

And one more question... is there any chance that I won't be able to run certain newer apps in the future because the cpu is a G5?

Thanks!!!

Carl
     
volcano
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Jan 13, 2006, 03:32 AM
 
Carl,

Yes - $1050 for a 20" G5 is a good deal. That version of the iMac is known as the "Rev. A" iMac and was the first iMac available with a G5 in it. It was introduced August 31, 2004. The 20" iMac is a beautiful machine - and the display is comparable to Apple's line of Cinema Displays. I myself have a 2GHz 20" iMac G5 and I absolutely love it.

Virtual PC is drivel. It's just emulation software - so unless the program you need to run is really simplistic, it's going to be an utter pain to use. Avoid it if you can.

Mark meant that at the Apple Store that the iMac G5 & Intel iMac are the same price. Obviously, the machine you've taken interest in is being offered at a discount so the same theory cannot be applied to your case.

Good luck with your decision! The iMac G5 I purchased back in June was my transition machine from Windows as well... and it's been a flawless work horse. In fact, I loved it so much that I ended up purchasing a new iBook in early August for myself. Once you get a Mac, you'll be hooked.
     
cmer  (op)
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Jan 13, 2006, 03:37 AM
 
Volcano,

That G5 might be a great machine for me to start with I guess. VNC's available on the Mac right? It might just do the trick... I could run my Windows app from my current machine and control them remotely if VPC is really that bad. (Actually, that's sad because Virtual PC and WMWare are quite nice on Windows!)

I did not notice if the Mac I was looking at had a dual-layer dvd burner integrated. Can you confirm?

Thanks!

Carl
     
volcano
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Jan 13, 2006, 03:38 AM
 
I forgot to answer your last question.

The PowerPC chip will be supported for many, many years to come. Apple wouldn't neglect nearly all of it's userbase - since many people keep their Macs for 4, 5, or even 6 years at a time. Universal applications are currently being developed by many companies - which run on both an Intel and PowerPC processor, so there is no need to worry. If you only plan on keeping it 1-2 years, you'll be fine.

As for AppleCare - although you may not find it necessary to have seeing as how you're keeping your machine 1-2 years, it might be a nice bonus for a future buyer of your machine to have - not to mention, a great selling point of your computer. I know it might sound rather outlandish to plan ahead for your future prospective buyer - but it's definitely something to consider. The 3 year extended warranty covers everything imaginable.
     
volcano
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Jan 13, 2006, 03:53 AM
 
Carl,

I'm not sure if it has a dual-layer DVD burner, actually. I've done an extensive search on Google and couldn't find the specifics so I'm going to assume the answer is no - unless some other kind MacNN user can correct my possible error.

EDIT: VNC can run on any operating system, since it is platform-independent. And yes, VPC is a sad state of affairs for us in the Mac world.

By the way, my name is Jason - welcome to the forums!
     
cmer  (op)
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Jan 13, 2006, 04:09 AM
 
Thanks!

The mac community definately seems a lot friendlier than other *nix communities out there! Do you guys realize you pretty much convinced me of buying a mac???

Now I'll need your help finding excuses! I'm known to be the anti-mac guy!!! What am I gonna say?! ;-)
     
Chips G
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Jan 13, 2006, 09:10 AM
 
Personally I would save up a little longer (you've gone this long without a mac already) until you can afford an Intel iMac, there aren't a LOT more (250 before tax) and I think it would be worth the wait.

Just my two cents,

Chris
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BrunoBruin
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Jan 13, 2006, 11:21 AM
 
Originally Posted by volcano
I'm not sure if it has a dual-layer DVD burner, actually.
The first G5 iMacs had only single-layer drive. Dual-layer SuperDrives came with rev. B (1.8 and 2.0GHz).

Just to confuse you further, Apple sells the 20-inch rev. B machines refurbished for $1,299. That generation saw a lot of improvements - twice the RAM, a larger hard drive, dual-layer support, built-in AirPort/Bluetooth and a much improved video subsystem. If you wanted to cough up the extra cash, I think it's a better value. (Just adding an AirPort card to the older machine is $80.) You can also add AppleCare to any Apple refurbished product.
"I'm an award-winning creative, the rules of society no longer apply to me."
     
mduell
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Jan 13, 2006, 03:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by cmer
First of all, thanks for the reply! You said that Intel iMacs are priced the same... does that mean that $1050 for a 20" G5 is not a good deal? I doubt I can find a similar setup with an Intel processor for that price... Does that price sound any goood to you? I've also seen a few great deals on ebay...

Is VPC performance -really- that bad or you were just trying to prove your point? Vmware and VPC's performance on Windows are not great, but definately a lot better than a 500mhz box!

And one more question... is there any chance that I won't be able to run certain newer apps in the future because the cpu is a G5?
Oops, I missed that it was a 20". That's a reasonable deal.

VMware (or Virtual PC) on Windows on x86 is just doing virtualiztion. On a G5 chip it has to do virtualization and emulation (because the instruction sets are different and the bit order is different [endian]). Search the forums for plenty of gripes about Virtual PC performance.

Yes. Any Intel only binaries will not run on your G5 (Apple hasn't mentioned any plans for a Rosetta-like program to go the other way).
     
ciparis
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Jan 13, 2006, 03:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by cmer
Thanks!

The mac community definately seems a lot friendlier than other *nix communities out there! Do you guys realize you pretty much convinced me of buying a mac???

Now I'll need your help finding excuses! I'm known to be the anti-mac guy!!! What am I gonna say?! ;-)
I think long term you'll be much happier with the intel, so that you can (eventually) run your tools at native (or nearly so) speed.
     
Drakino
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Jan 13, 2006, 06:34 PM
 
If you do go with the PowerPC iMac and still want to connect to a PC, Microsoft does have a Remote Desktop Client here for free. It works faster then using VNC to a Windows XP box, and also allows drive mapping between the Mac and PC.

Keep in mind on the Windows side you need Windows XP Pro for the RDC server.
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Eug Wanker
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Jan 13, 2006, 06:38 PM
 
Virtual PC will not run on the new Intel iMacs at all. It's incompatible. Neither will Windows XP. The install discs won't boot apparently (because of EFI).
     
mduell
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Jan 13, 2006, 06:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug Wanker
Virtual PC will not run on the new Intel iMacs at all. It's incompatible. Neither will Windows XP. The install discs won't boot apparently (because of EFI).
We don't know if Apple has enabled or disabled EFI's legacy compatibility. The Windows XP install disks may or may not work, and even if they don't work you may be able to take a drive with XP already installed on it and boot from that.
     
Rainy Day
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Jan 14, 2006, 05:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug Wanker
Virtual PC will not run on the new Intel iMacs at all. It's incompatible. Neither will Windows XP. The install discs won't boot apparently (because of EFI).
Intel Macs may boot XP after all
     
elvis2000
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Jan 14, 2006, 12:55 PM
 
Nobody mentioned the fact that RevA iMac G5's had some major problems... overheating and failing capacitors, anyone? Plus, it is sorely underspeced. I'd look at the intelMac 17" for $1299 -- or $1199 if you are a student (certainly you know a student, or a teacher, etc). Once VirtualPC comes out for that, you might be OK. Pls -- *maybe* it will dual-boot to XP (waiting on someone to try and post results!). Future-proofing is a good thing. There is a reason that machine is $1050.

JW
     
JMII
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Jan 14, 2006, 03:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by Drakino
If you do go with the PowerPC iMac and still want to connect to a PC, Microsoft does have a Remote Desktop Client here for free. It works faster then using VNC to a Windows XP box, and also allows drive mapping between the Mac and PC.

Keep in mind on the Windows side you need Windows XP Pro for the RDC server.
Or you can do this by running what is called Terminal Services in Windows NT.

We use this solution at work to run customized accounting, estimating and inventory tracking software that is only available for Windows on several Macs scattered through-out our offices. These Macs range from older G4s to current Minis and G5s. It works like a charm - you log onto the PC and run the app thru the Mac client. RDC supports printing in addition to drive mapping.
     
harrisjamieh
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Jan 15, 2006, 11:30 AM
 
I really would not get a rev A iMac. Way, way, way too many problems with them. If you pay $250 more, you get the newsest spec mac, faster, more RAM, sight, front row, etc etc. Much more for your money, and even though you might get some problems with the Rev A intels, there is no reason you should get the same problems as a rev A g5
iMac Core Duo 1.83 Ghz | 1.25GB RAM | 160HD, MacBook Core Duo 1.83 Ghz | 13.3" | 60HD | 1.0GB RAM
     
   
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