Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

gperks · May 2, 2005, 11:09 PM

I installed Tiger last week and it's been running just fine. Tonight, mds has been spawned (by launchd) for some reason. I've no idea why. It's pegging my CPU! I think mds is something to do with Spotlight - for a while I'd see mdimport popping in and out of Activity Manager.

What is mds, what is it doing, and why is it burning my CPU?

ManOfSteal · May 2, 2005, 11:12 PM

mds = metadata server (as far as I know)

It will show itself when it needs to index something, did you happen to connect a Firewire drive up or anything in order for Spotlight to index something?

gperks · May 2, 2005, 11:23 PM

I accidentally clicked on my iDisk for the first time since installing Tiger. I ejected the drive though and mds is still going. I tried logging off and on to no avail. I'll try rebooting next; my PB is getting hot!

I hear no disk activity.

gperks · May 2, 2005, 11:32 PM

A reboot seems to have worked - (perhaps I could have just killed the mds process).

Also noticed in Activity Manager an iChatAgent process marked in red "not responding". Anyone else have this? iChat is working just fine. iChatAgent state is the same before and after the reboot.

sideus · May 3, 2005, 12:09 AM

Originally Posted by gperks

A reboot seems to have worked - (perhaps I could have just killed the mds process).

Also noticed in Activity Manager an iChatAgent process marked in red "not responding". Anyone else have this? iChat is working just fine. iChatAgent state is the same before and after the reboot.

Same here.

davi · May 3, 2005, 12:16 AM

I have a similar issue with the update process on my iMac DV 400. Since I installed Tiger, it seems to appear when I wake the mac from sleep in the mornings, and takes as much CPU as it can get, so it's always pegging my Mac at 100%. The process doesn't seem to go away by itself, and only a restart will get rid of it... until the next day that is. The process is owned by launchd. There's no such issue with my 12" PowerBook 867. Any ideas what it is and what I can do about it?

smitty825 · May 3, 2005, 12:28 AM

Hey GPerks...I have the same MDS issue, too. It seems to pop up now and then, and not only does it suck up CPU cycles, it seems to fill up my RAM with disk caching data, making all of my other applications have to use the swap disc! (And I have 1.5GB of RAM)

It seems that for me the only way to stop it is to reboot...hopefully in a future Tiger release, Apple provides some sort of way to better determine what it is doing, and possibly delay indexing data to a more appropriate time...

invisible · May 3, 2005, 06:32 AM

I also have the same issue. mds takes up all my CPU and seems to be constatly reading/writing to disk. Sometimes a restart cures it other times it seems to make no difference.

Think I'm gonna try a reinstall to see if this cures the problem.

ChrisF · May 3, 2005, 06:46 AM

mds is part of spotlight. Just let it run and it should stop after a while (a few hours, probably.)

moodymonster · May 3, 2005, 07:14 AM

Originally Posted by gperks

A reboot seems to have worked - (perhaps I could have just killed the mds process).

Also noticed in Activity Manager an iChatAgent process marked in red "not responding". Anyone else have this? iChat is working just fine. iChatAgent state is the same before and after the reboot.

keep getting that too

smitty825 · May 3, 2005, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisF

mds is part of spotlight. Just let it run and it should stop after a while (a few hours, probably.)

That's what I orignially thought, too...however this seems to be a bug, as I let mds run all day Friday (I received my copy early) and most of Saturday, and it didn't stop until I restarted my Mac.

(For example, right now my mds is using 50.70% of my CPU. If I let it sit this way all day and come home from work, it will still be consuming more than 50% of my CPU. The major problem with this is that switching applications becomes really slow (due to swapping) and disk performance drops because it is competing with spotlight...)

wataru · May 3, 2005, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisF

mds is part of spotlight. Just let it run and it should stop after a while (a few hours, probably.)

Yeah, that's what should happen, but I also have this problem and it happens much more often than it should--even when all my drives are indexed and I haven't mounted anything new. I also get LAServer acting up quite frequently.

gperks · May 3, 2005, 10:13 AM

mds started up again this morning... makes my Mac sluggish.

I looked in the launchd files in /System/Library/LaunchDaemons but didn't find anything with mds or mdimport in it.

I have one directory hidden from Spotlight.

I running Mail, Safari, a few Dashboard plugins, Quicksilver, iChat, and iTunes. That's all. Only one user is logged in.

PowerBook G4 1.25GHz. Now baking at 1.25Ghz 100% of the time

smitty825 · May 4, 2005, 01:50 AM

Originally Posted by gperks

mds started up again this morning... makes my Mac sluggish.

I looked in the launchd files in /System/Library/LaunchDaemons but didn't find anything with mds or mdimport in it.

I have one directory hidden from Spotlight.

I running Mail, Safari, a few Dashboard plugins, Quicksilver, iChat, and iTunes. That's all. Only one user is logged in.

PowerBook G4 1.25GHz. Now baking at 1.25Ghz 100% of the time

I have the same problem and same powerbook as you. I also have the "Fortress" (Is that what it's called?) encrypted home directory option turned on. I wonder if that is part of the problem?

wataru · May 6, 2005, 07:32 AM

So has anyone made any progress on this issue?

invisible · May 6, 2005, 10:07 AM

Rather than perform a clean install I just told Spotlight not to index both my drives. Spotlight now doesnt work, but its stopped the problem for the moment.

gperks · May 26, 2005, 10:59 PM

After telling Spotlight not to index my drive, then letting it index it again, everything's been running fine for a week or so.

Tonight mds has started up again, pegging the CPU with "nice" work.

I haven't seen this problem on my PowerMac G5, just the PowerBook, twice now.

gperks · May 26, 2005, 11:11 PM

I have a clue what might have triggered this. I have a folder in my Spotlight Privacy list, and I added and removed some files in that folder earlier this evening, a little before noticing mds. This isn't the first time I've messed with that folder, but I wonder if that somehow triggered mds?

Does anyone else having this issue have folders in the Privacy list?

JSD303 · May 27, 2005, 05:08 PM

I've noticed this during downloads of binaries using Thoth (newsreader). I think it has to do with the temp files that are created and converted to the actual file you are downloading - after which the temp file is deleted before mds has a chance to index them. I've tried adding the download folders and both .trash and .trashes folders to the exception list, but I can still recreate the issue by simply trying to download something using Thoth. Only a restart seems to reset mds from eating CPU and thrashing the HD.

Anyone else seeing this problem with mds pegging CPUs? I don't think it's pegged both CPUs in my DualG5, but I've noticed it take one out... what's annoying really is the hard drive noise (because it's really working the HD). Murder on the uptime.. lol

JSD303

spiff72 · May 31, 2005, 09:13 PM

For those of you who have this issue, do you see the dot in the magnifying glass in the menu bar's finder icon while the issue is occurring?

Just curious, as I have not yet seen this "indexing notice dot"...

I did a clean install (erase and install)...

Thanks,
Jeff

gperks · Jun 1, 2005, 01:49 PM

Indexing dot? Never seen it.

YES to the Thoth issue - I'm was thinking downloading via that is what's triggering mds on my box too.

It doesn't do it 100% of the time though; I've downloaded files and not had mds start.

ChrisF · Jun 1, 2005, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by gperks

YES to the Thoth issue - I'm was thinking downloading via that is what's triggering mds on my box too.

I also have problems with Thoth. I've tried adding the Thoth folder and the download folder to Spotlight's privacy list but the only thing I've found that reliably avoids the problem is to add the entire disk to the list temporarily.

Person Man · Jun 1, 2005, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisF

but the only thing I've found that reliably avoids the problem is to add the entire disk to the list temporarily.

The only problem is that adding the entire disk deletes the whole Spotlight index for that disk, and then when you remove the disk from the list it has to reindex EVERYTHING again...

gperks · Jun 11, 2005, 12:13 AM

It's definitely triggered via Thoth. I just downloaded some pics using Thoth and now mds has kicked in. mds is still going even though I've deleted the pictures (via the command line - they're not in the Trash still or anything).

Previously I've had my download directory in the Privacy list in Spotlight prefs; didn't help. Good idea to throw in the Thoth folder too. Where else might Thoth be putting temp files?

Groovy · Jun 11, 2005, 02:31 AM

Originally Posted by gperks

It's definitely triggered via Thoth. I just downloaded some pics using Thoth and now mds has kicked in. mds is still going even though I've deleted the pictures (via the command line - they're not in the Trash still or anything).

Previously I've had my download directory in the Privacy list in Spotlight prefs; didn't help. Good idea to throw in the Thoth folder too. Where else might Thoth be putting temp files?

just do a search on modified date while downloading in thoth.

Me i use EasyFind (freeware) as it searches EVERYWHERE even inside packages
and invisible files and all system files etc... it is fast too.

note spotlight will reindex even if no new files/drive are added once a week but it will
only do it if you leave your mac awake at 3:00 AM on the night it is supposed to run.
(well here anyway on dozens of macs this appears to be the case)

If it misses that launch window then the next time you DO add new files or a drive etc...
it will do it then at which point it takes a few hours or more for most people. If you
try to use spotlight it will say though that it is reindexing which is why i feel you have
some other problem and thus the modified date search suggestion.

To me it sounds like spotlight is trying to index files that it was in the middle of indexing
when thoth suddenly locks them down for read/write access only by thoth itself or maybe
goes a step further and even changes permissions instead of a temp lock. In these
cases spotlight sees the files but goes into endless loop trying to read them cause it had
access but that access was taken away in the middle of the index and spotlight doesn't realize
it cause perhaps it was not written to keep checking flock/permissions and only does it once
which is just bad programming if that is the case.

I'm curious to find out for sure so if you do find out, please let us know

Russian Mac fan · Jun 11, 2005, 02:32 AM

I also have had this issue twice already on my Powerbook probably a week apart. Only a reboot killed it. I am just horrified to think of what would have happened if this happened while I was gone during the day! My fans would have broken for sure! It was taking up anywhere from 50 to 80% CPU. Could not kill it in Terminal.

gperks · Jun 11, 2005, 11:08 AM

I noticed Thoth stores temp files in .Trash. It's the newsgroup article full of uuencoded (or similar) but text. They are huge text files full of strange characters in the encoded section. I wonder if Spotlight is choking on these files? Finder wants to open them as AppleScript...

I added .Trash to my Spotlight privacy list so we'll see if that helps.

Russian Mac fan · Jun 11, 2005, 02:36 PM

How do I add the .Trash to the Spotlight privacy list?

Russian Mac fan · Jun 11, 2005, 10:21 PM

It's an invisible file in my User directory, and Spotlight doesn't see it. How do I enable invisible files to be seen? Thanks

gperks · Jun 12, 2005, 02:27 PM

Adding .Trash didn't make any difference.

Spotlight is completed

for me. I need to find an email and I can't do any searching since mds is *still* busy. This is really annoying.

To add .Trash I think I went into .Trash via the Terminal then did "open ."

gperks · Jun 12, 2005, 02:28 PM

I *swear* I added .Trash to the Privacy list. I just went to remove it and the privacy list is completely empty now!

Jerommeke · Jun 12, 2005, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by gperks

A reboot seems to have worked - (perhaps I could have just killed the mds process).

Also noticed in Activity Manager an iChatAgent process marked in red "not responding". Anyone else have this? iChat is working just fine. iChatAgent state is the same before and after the reboot.

see: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=301668

ChrisF · Jun 12, 2005, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by gperks

I *swear* I added .Trash to the Privacy list. I just went to remove it and the privacy list is completely empty now!

Yeah, .Trash won't stay there. I think I've found something that seems to work. It requires a combination of settings:
-add the download folder to the privacy list in Spotlight prefs.
-In Thoth, open prefs, select the "extracting binaries" panel.
-Uncheck the "Trash Temp file after decoding" option.

This will leave the temp files in the download folder but it appears that it's possible to put them in the trash after your download is complete and empty it on short order without making mds go nuts.

Russian Mac fan · Jul 13, 2005, 03:25 PM

Any updates on this problem after the 10.2.4 upgrade?

wataru · Jul 14, 2005, 02:52 AM

Well 10.2.4 was released well before this issue existed, so the answer is no.

If you mean 10.4.2, I've been running with Spotlight disabled for quite a while now and it's heaven. I haven't re-enabled it yet, but there may be hope. Is your hard drive pretty full? If so, you might be experiencing the hotfile_evict issue that may be fixed in 10.4.2.

ChrisF · Jul 14, 2005, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by wataru

Well 10.2.4 was released well before this issue existed, so the answer is no.

If you mean 10.4.2, I've been running with Spotlight disabled for quite a while now and it's heaven. I haven't re-enabled it yet, but there may be hope. Is your hard drive pretty full? If so, you might be experiencing the hotfile_evict issue that may be fixed in 10.4.2.

No, the problem is a Thoth/10.4.x issue as is discussed earlier in the thread. I have not yet had a chance to test extensively, but it appears it is not fixed in 10.4.2.

wataru · Jul 14, 2005, 03:07 PM

No, it is not exclusively a Thoth issue, as I have never used Thoth and yet I have this exact problem.

Russian Mac fan · Jul 14, 2005, 03:36 PM

so, no reports yet after 10.4.2 update? (sorry, I mistyped earlier).

wataru · Jul 14, 2005, 09:16 PM

I'm planning to turn Spotlight back on, reindex everything, and report back. I'll probably get to it in the next few days.

ChrisF · Jul 14, 2005, 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by wataru

No, it is not exclusively a Thoth issue, as I have never used Thoth and yet I have this exact problem.

So when do you notice the problem happening?
The problem with Thoth persists.

Hash · Jul 14, 2005, 11:54 PM

it is connected with corrupted mds database. I had a same problem for weeks, turned out corrupt file related with mds. Had to delete the file, let mds reindex and in matter of hours it was back to normal CPU usage level. I found that trick somewhere on net, sorry do not remember where but you can find

wataru · Jul 15, 2005, 01:20 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisF

So when do you notice the problem happening?
The problem with Thoth persists.

Well turning off Spotlight has solved the problem for now, but obviously that's not an ideal solution.

Before I disabled Spotlight, the issue would occur completely randomly. I would be using my computer as normal, and suddenly my CPU would spike to 100%. I'd look at top and it would show that mds, and usually LAServer, is using almost all of the CPU. killing them would bring CPU usage back down for a while, but then it would start up again randomly. There is no one app that seems to cause it, but it did seem to be somehow related to having a large external hard drive mounted.

And yes, this is all after having indexed (and reindexed) all drives completely several times.

Recto Bold · Jul 16, 2005, 04:27 AM

I have the same problem with Thoth. It's doing it now. Went to find something in spotlight and the machine just keeps hunting but finding nothing (no results). Had it before too, plenty of times and I am royally sick of it. I swear Apple seems to be getting slacker in their QC on stuff like this. The finder is now hanging regularly with the SBBOD requiring repeated force quit/relaunch.

ChrisF · Jul 16, 2005, 04:54 AM

Originally Posted by Recto Bold

I have the same problem with Thoth. It's doing it now.

My post from June, above, provides an effective workaround for the Thoth situation.

Recto Bold · Jul 16, 2005, 05:10 AM

Thanks. I have tried it and hopefully it should help. A restart had the machine re-indexing for a few minutes initially and is now fine. The least Apple could have done was add a button to delete the index and one to manually update it in the Spotlight Preferences. If people can manage to knock together a little shareware or freeware gizmo which does it, I don't understand why Apple hasn't done so. Anyway, that moan is for another day.

wataru · 10:14 AM

I just tried enabling Spotlight again. I let it index my drive completely, then started surfing the web. About an hour later I have mds and LAServer eating my CPU again. Spotlight really is a piece of ****.

Edit: I just found this page (Google cache because the site was giving me SQL errors), which says that the problem is caused by the iTunes smart playlist live update feature and non-ASCII tags. I've added ~/Music/iTunes to my Spotlight exclude list. Hopefully this will solve it.

Russian Mac fan · Jul 25, 2005, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by wataru

I just tried enabling Spotlight again. I let it index my drive completely, then started surfing the web. About an hour later I have mds and LAServer eating my CPU again. Spotlight really is a piece of ****.

Edit: I just found this page (Google cache because the site was giving me SQL errors), which says that the problem is caused by the iTunes smart playlist live update feature and non-ASCII tags. I've added ~/Music/iTunes to my Spotlight exclude list. Hopefully this will solve it.

Hmm, interesting.

Before 10.4.2 though I think I had my entire 24 gig iTunes library excluded in Spotlight and I STILL had the problem (about once a week).