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The Official MacNN COVID-19 Thread (Page 30)
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reader50
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Jan 1, 2022, 01:56 PM
 
Do they plan to delay all jury trials until we have an Omicron-tweaked booster? That won't happen before the 2nd quarter.

Seems like we need individual jury cubbies. With video link to the court room, and/or the virtual jury room.
     
MacNNFamous
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Jan 1, 2022, 02:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Found out last week my neighbor died of Covid, in her 50s, mother of 7 kids ages 5-24. Unvaccinated.

And someone in my office died last night, not sure if he was vaccinated or not, but odds around here are not. I know of plenty of people that have died of Covid (including family), but this is probably the first "see them every day" person.
They sure owned the libs.
     
ghporter
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Jan 1, 2022, 06:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
Do they plan to delay all jury trials until we have an Omicron-tweaked booster? That won't happen before the 2nd quarter.

Seems like we need individual jury cubbies. With video link to the court room, and/or the virtual jury room.
They are talking about a two-week delay for jury trials. This is not the first time for such a delay. They had one this past August.

TV news item on the delay

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
subego
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Jan 3, 2022, 03:00 PM
 
Are schools opening everywhere else? Chicago Teachers Union is voting on a walkout tomorrow.
     
andi*pandi
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Jan 3, 2022, 03:19 PM
 
We had a 2 hour delay to rearrange desks and get teachers tested and people flipped out.
     
Thorzdad  (op)
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Jan 3, 2022, 03:27 PM
 
They are here in Indy. A friend of mine drives a bus for Carmel schools and he's scared to death to go back. He's sticking it out, though, til the end of the semester when he can retire and get his full pension. It's not much, of course, but it helps.

FWIW, COVID seems to be popping-up all over around me ever since the holiday. I've gotten news of at least three people who have tested positive since last week.
     
reader50
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Jan 3, 2022, 04:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
FWIW, COVID seems to be popping-up all over around me ever since the holiday. I've gotten news of at least three people who have tested positive since last week.
"Man with no symptoms infects half of city. Newspapers nickname him Typhoid Thorz."
     
subego
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Jan 3, 2022, 05:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
We had a 2 hour delay to rearrange desks and get teachers tested and people flipped out.
I guess the plan here was for mass testing, but there wasn’t enough capacity to process them. Also, lots of ruined tests.

These were the non-rapid variety. Can’t get the rapid tests here. No supply.
     
ghporter
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Jan 3, 2022, 09:34 PM
 
My wife, steam-rollered by an immense amount of mountain juniper pollen* blown through over the last week or so, has been advised to get tested as a precaution. Her symptoms are ONLY those consistent with her long history of the mountain juniper trying to kill her, but she's going to be tested tomorrow anyway because several of her coworkers have tested positive. I am looking forward to her negative result.

*See my recent posts in the Minor Irritant Thread.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
subego
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Jan 5, 2022, 01:12 PM
 
So, if I understand correctly, the Chicago Teachers Union voted to walk.

In response, the School Board locked every teacher’s Google account.
     
ghporter
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Jan 5, 2022, 01:18 PM
 
That sounds kind of pissy to me. Is that the teachers’ “work” accounts, or somehow their “personal” accounts?

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
subego
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Jan 5, 2022, 01:25 PM
 
Work accounts. IIUC, Google stuff is free for education so it beats out Microsoft, who gives a discount but still charges.
     
ghporter
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Jan 5, 2022, 07:03 PM
 
Yep, pissy. In-person classes at this moment are an invitation to send even more kids to the hospital. Not an acceptable option for this parent, health care professional, and thinking human being. The board should have had something better than "just show up" to offer.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
subego
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Jan 5, 2022, 10:31 PM
 
Supposedly, the idea is it’s to stop teachers from trying to hold a remote learning class. If they did that, they can demand pay.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jan 6, 2022, 06:51 AM
 
It’s no longer even so much as veiled that German government’s insistence upon in-person classes is purely to park kids during the day, so that parents can continue to go to work.

For context: school attendance is mandatory here, for historical reasons.
     
subego
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Jan 6, 2022, 03:55 PM
 
The reading here is “park our kids or we will elect someone who will”.

Even Psaki pretty much said “yes, we know”.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Jan 7, 2022, 05:17 AM
 
The same has happened in the UK. Parents simply do not want to spend that much time with their own kids. School attendance is mandatory here too until age 18 (I'm not 100% sure what the home schooling rules are). Some big fines have been already handed out for parents who have kept their kids out of school.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
subego
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Jan 11, 2022, 11:13 AM
 
Teachers Union caved. All they got were free N95s.
     
Thorzdad  (op)
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Jan 11, 2022, 12:15 PM
 
Better than nothing. I wager there will be parents screaming about the masks upsetting their delicate offspring now. That seems to be the latest bugaboo making the rounds of the antivax/mask/reality crowd.
     
subego
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Jan 11, 2022, 12:25 PM
 
I think it’s just for teachers. I admit I’m only half following things, and then only for the clown show.
     
subego
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Jan 11, 2022, 10:46 PM
 
As the cherry on top to her achievement of herding all the teachers and students back together, Mayor just tested positive.
     
Laminar
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Jan 12, 2022, 09:32 AM
 
One of the major hospitals in Iowa just put out the all-call internally, where they're asking for any employees (corporate, office, administrative, etc.) to help staff check-in, emergency room admin, helping patients go to the bathroom, and other non-medical tasks in order to just keep the hospital open.
     
MacNNFamous
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Jan 12, 2022, 03:58 PM
 
This timeline sucks.
     
Thorzdad  (op)
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Jan 13, 2022, 07:03 PM
 
SCOTUS today struck down the vaccination mandate for large businesses, but upheld the mandate for healthcare and medical businesses that receive federal dollars, i.e. Medicare (which is pretty much all of them.)
     
reader50
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Jan 13, 2022, 11:19 PM
 
It is my understanding that SCOTUS only addressed whether the mandates go into effect while the cases proceed through lower courts.

So either or both mandates could still be upheld or struck down. Both will probably return to SCOTUS after district & appeals courts have finished ruling on them.

Which could take years. If COVID is still rolling when the final SCOTUS appeal happens, we'll all be in bad shape.
     
ghporter
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Jan 14, 2022, 12:20 PM
 
Saying a vaccine mandate was “outside the purview” of OSHA is not the same as saying it’s unconstitutional. It’s more a matter of saying that OSHA’s scope doesn’t include that level of “occupational safety and health” mandates.

On the other hand, if by Executive Order all government contractors must have a particular vaccination rate among their employees in order to ensure they can complete their work, that’s not something that this decision would apply to. And how the executive branch manages contracts is going to be hard to complain about. A vaccinated workforce can be shown to be more productive and more likely to allow these contractors to comply with production requirements. Pro-business, better stewardship of taxpayer funds, and so on. And very much like the early implementations of anti-discrimination rules.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
MacNNFamous
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Jan 17, 2022, 03:43 PM
 
     
ghporter
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Jan 17, 2022, 11:04 PM
 
When you say “it’s peaked,” the virus says “hold my beer.” Just sayin’.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
andi*pandi
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Jan 18, 2022, 03:55 PM
 
Get your free rapid tests here:

https://special.usps.com/testkits
     
subego
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Jan 18, 2022, 04:03 PM
 
Was actually able to pick up a couple (non-free) at Walgreens yesterday.
     
andi*pandi
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Jan 18, 2022, 04:15 PM
 
We got 2 at cvs monday, but they limited to 2.
     
subego
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Jan 18, 2022, 09:24 PM
 
Two nostrils, two tests. It checks out.
     
subego
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Jan 19, 2022, 01:58 PM
 
At Walgreens, tests have graduated to the “impulse buy” shelves at the counter.
     
ghporter
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Jan 21, 2022, 02:29 PM
 
The cruise line (our cruise starts the end of NEXT WEEK!!!) requires a negative test no more than two days prior to boarding. Our ship boards on Sunday. So we need tests - WITH PROPERLY DOCUMENTED RESULTS - on Friday morning before we drive to Galveston.

The cruise line requires either a PCR test (average result time 12-36 hours) or a “rapid antigen” test (results in as little as 15 minutes). The odds that we’ll be able to get PCR tests AND get the results in a timely fashion mean we need rapid antigen tests.

But only specific rapid antigen tests are acceptable because of reasons. Many reasons, not the least of which is that some @$$holes are selling bogus “tests”, and because you can “do” a home test incorrectly (accidentally or on purpose) and get a false negative result.

The latest guidance for any form of nasal swab COVID test is “kinder and gentler.” The tech who did my wife’s last test said “we don’t have to poke your brain anymore.” I’m glad I’m not the only person who thought that was a good analogy…

“Kinder and gentler” is a good thing, too. My first test (September 2020) nearly incapacitated me. It took me a long time before I could see clearly; swabbing that far up my nose triggered a response that can only be described as “turn on all the tears full blast, and make the nose water like Niagara Falls.”

Last April, and again in June, I had more tests before surgery, and they weren’t much easier on me. You can see that even a well intentioned person could do the test improperly.

So the cruise line has teamed up with a third party and offered a 2-pack of tests for a reasonable price. The test is “supervised” online. I’m not sure if it’s Skype, Zoom or “other,” but an appropriate medical professional will walk us through the process so we do the tests correctly.

So with the tests we’ll use next Friday in hand, we also ordered the free tests to have on hand for “just in case” use.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
andi*pandi
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Jan 21, 2022, 03:31 PM
 
I'm so glad the cruise line stepped up and came up with a reasonable solution. Otherwise you'd be paying $150 for a rapid test at a doc-in-a-box like we had to before iceland for one of our group.
     
subego
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Jan 21, 2022, 03:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
and because you can “do” a home test incorrectly (accidentally or on purpose) and get a false negative result.

“Kinder and gentler” is a good thing, too. My first test (September 2020) nearly incapacitated me.
I may have mentioned, my first test I gave myself, and it was enough nasal trauma I stopped following directions and botched the test.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Jan 21, 2022, 08:20 PM
 
There is a new machine that can do 60 or so covid tests per hour. They don't require nasal swabs and they are 95% or more accurate.

They are the size of a small desktop PC but require a PC to actually run.
I enquired with the distributor as to how much these machines might cost. Turns out you have to use swab kits (saliva not nasal) made by the manufacturer, and as such as well as buying the machine, the swab kits include not just the actual kit but a license to run one test. So you can't re-use them or use 3rd party ones.

A machine with a license and kit to run a single test would cost me £25k.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
OreoCookie
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Jan 21, 2022, 09:01 PM
 
I have had to do quite a few nasal-pharyngal swabs myself last year, and while it wasn’t a pleasant experience by any means, it was ok. My sister researched antigen tests back then and she picked the best (at least back then), which was manufactured by Roche. But it was a lot more expensive than the competition. Since we needed to protect our mom (who had cancer), my aging father and my grandma of 88 years, we didn’t cut any corners then. (This was before vaccines became available to us.)
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
reader50
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Jan 21, 2022, 09:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
Sooooo...My dumbass son-in-law, the lone vaccine holdout in the family, tested positive today.

It’s not even political with him. He just decided way back when the vaccines were just beginning to roll-out that he didn’t need one. He’s thirty-something and healthy, afterall. He’s one of those “I made a decision and I’m sticking to it” guys, and the more you beg him to do something the more immovable he gets.
I'm going to guess dumbass has recovered. And learned ... that he was right. No need to vaccinate. It was all a croc, etc. Those people dying on TV are paid actors.

School lessons for dumb people: If it kills you, you don't get to apply any lessons learned. And if it doesn't kill you, you learn the wrong lesson.
     
Thorzdad  (op)
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Jan 22, 2022, 09:55 AM
 
It’s not political with him. He’s not a denier in any way. He’s just a prideful millennial who believes himself to be strong. Now he believes he has plenty of antigens thanks to having been infected.
     
ghporter
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Jan 22, 2022, 11:22 AM
 
And the science says that immunity from having had COVID is less effective than immunity from the vaccines. So you can more easily get reinfected than if you were vaccinated. Kinda like the flu.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
turtle777
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Jan 30, 2022, 03:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
And the science says that immunity from having had COVID is less effective than immunity from the vaccines. So you can more easily get reinfected than if you were vaccinated. Kinda like the flu.
Your science is wrong.
In terms of hospitalizations (which is what really counts), natural immunity is as good as vaxxed.
Shockingly, this is now even admitted by the CDC, after Israel had figured it our 6 months ago.

https://www.peakprosperity.com/the-c...he-vaccinated/

Here's the data:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e1.htm

-t
     
Laminar
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Jan 31, 2022, 01:55 PM
 
Turtle's back! He hasn't been here since he tried to spread the Ivermectin BS narrative that the media is pushing but got shut down hard.

It's hilarious seeing people keep trying to reframe vaccinations vs. "natural immunity." Actually, the term "natural immunity" is bullshit. It's not natural, your body didn't magically generate immunity because you ate four apples a day and did some situps, it exists because you caught the disease and your body had to fight it off.

The study ignores the people that died trying to achieve this magical "natural immunity," and it discounts the potential long term effects of survivors. It also doesn't take into account the self-selection bias of unvaxed people not going to the hospital a second time. My mom is unvaxed and spent three days in the hospital with Covid. She's stated that if she gets it again, she won't go back to the hospital. With some doctors refusing to give irrelevant and ineffective treatments that patients are requesting, I'm sure plenty of people are forgoing hospital visits since they can take their deworming drugs at home.

Like...what do you say to people?
"How do I avoid getting Covid?"
"Don't worry about it, just get Covid first, and then you might not get it a second time in quick succession!"
"But what if I die or suffer long-term health damage due to having Covid?"
"No matter, at least you might not get Covid shortly after!"
"Okay, I got Covid and now I have permanent alterations to my smell and taste, plus heart palpitations."
"Don't worry about it, at least you might not get Covid a second time in the immediate future!"
"Turns out when I got Covid, I spread it to my grandma before I was symptomatic and she died."
"Too bad, she should have had Natural Immunity™."

It's flawless logic.

Quick, turtle - time to reference VAERS!
( Last edited by Laminar; Jan 31, 2022 at 04:40 PM. )
     
reader50
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Jan 31, 2022, 03:52 PM
 
Turns out you can buy real placebo pills - they're sold for stress relief. And I believe they're much cheaper than Ivermectin.

     
turtle777
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Jan 31, 2022, 09:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Turtle's back! He hasn't been here since he tried to spread the Ivermectin BS narrative that the media is pushing but got shut down hard.
Oh, fun, so you are still one of those mindless dolts that just follow the government narrative and program ?

Out of 77 Ivermectin studies from all over the world, 72 showed IVM to be effective.
This includes 32 RCTs.

So, based on what data did YOU come to the conclusion it doesn't work ?

Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
It's hilarious seeing people keep trying to reframe vaccinations vs. "natural immunity." Actually, the term "natural immunity" is bullshit. It's not natural, your body didn't magically generate immunity because you ate four apples a day and did some situps, it exists because you caught the disease and your body had to fight it off.
Well the "people" you are laughing at in this case are the CDC. I didn't write this.

Sure, we can be nit-picky and call it immunity acquired from post-infection.

Is that the game you wanna play ?
You are still as petty as you always were.

Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
The study ignores the people that died trying to achieve this magical "natural immunity," and it discounts the potential long term effects of survivors.
It's ignored because that wasn't the point.
But thanks for the straw man.

The study clearly shows that if you recovered from a Covid infection, vaccination doesn't add a benefit.
There is no scientific basis to require the vaxx for those people. THAT's the point.

Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
It also doesn't take into account the self-selection bias of unvaxed people not going to the hospital a second time.
Indeed, one could make that argument.
However, if hospitalizations were only lower due to that, one would see comparatively higher case rates as well.

Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
My mom is unvaxed and spent three days in the hospital with Covid. She's stated that if she gets it again, she won't go back to the hospital. With some doctors refusing to give irrelevant and ineffective treatments that patients are requesting, I'm sure plenty of people are forgoing hospital visits since they can take their deworming drugs at home.
I wish you would see the irony.

Treatments with off-label drugs is shunned by the government.
But let's be surprised that the hospitals only have ventilators to offer once you get there.
(By the way, vaccinated suffer from this medical idiocy the same was as unvaccinated.)

After two years of pandemic, we still have ZERO recommendations what to do if you catch Covid.
Fauci will tell you to stay home until it gets so bad that you have to go to the hospital. WTF is that ? With all their money, they can't figure anything else out ?

Treatment and vaccines don't have to be in competition.
Vaccines can't treat people that get sick. Vaccines don't prevent people from getting sick. Why the hate ?

-t
     
turtle777
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Jan 31, 2022, 09:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
Turns out you can buy real placebo pills - they're sold for stress relief. And I believe they're much cheaper than Ivermectin.

Ok, I'll bite once I see 32 RTCs that show effectiveness.

-t
     
reader50
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Jan 31, 2022, 10:42 PM
 
It is my understanding they are equally effective against all diseases.
     
Laminar
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Feb 1, 2022, 12:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Oh, fun, so you are still one of those mindless dolts that just follow the government narrative and program ?

Out of 77 Ivermectin studies from all over the world, 72 showed IVM to be effective.
This includes 32 RCTs.

So, based on what data did YOU come to the conclusion it doesn't work ?
You're counting the flawed preprints and meta-analyses in your good "data," right?

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34181716/

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2777389

The authors of one recently published meta-analysis of ivermectin for COVID-193 have publicly stated that they will now reanalyze and republish their now-retracted meta-analysis and will no longer include either of the two papers just mentioned. As these two papers were the only studies included in that meta-analysis to demonstrate an independently significant reduction in mortality, the revision will probably show no mortality benefit for ivermectin.

Several other studies that claim a clinical benefit for ivermectin are similarly fraught, and contain impossible numbers in their results, unexplainable mismatches between trial registry updates and published patient demographics, purported timelines that are not consistent with the veracity of the data collection, and substantial methodological weaknesses. We expect further studies supporting ivermectin to be withdrawn over the coming months.
No matter, that doesn't fit the narrative the media is feeding you, so you'll disregard it.

Well the "people" you are laughing at in this case are the CDC. I didn't write this.
The CDC didn't use the term "natural immunity," you did.

The study clearly shows that if you recovered from a Covid infection, vaccination doesn't add a benefit.
There is no scientific basis to require the vaxx for those people. THAT's the point.
Oh man, this is about to get really embarrassing for you.

Let's read the link you posted:
Further, rates among unvaccinated persons with a previous COVID-19 diagnosis were 29-fold lower (95% CI = 25.0–33.1) than rates among unvaccinated persons without a previous COVID-19 diagnosis in California and 14.7-fold lower (95% CI = 12.6–16.9) in New York. Rates among vaccinated persons who had had COVID-19 were 32.5-fold lower (95% CI = 27.5–37.6) than rates among unvaccinated persons without a previous COVID-19 diagnosis in California and 19.8-fold lower (95% CI = 16.2–23.5) in New York.
Let's break it down for you:

Previous infection, no vax: 29x lower rate of hospitalization than no infection, no vax.

Previous infection + vax: 32.5x lower rate of hospitalization than no infection, no vax.

Oh look! An added benefit to people with previous infections getting vaccinated! Yikes, you must be rethinking your tendency to misrepresent scientific data to fit the narrative you're being fed by the media. Haha just kidding! We all know you'll just dig your heels in deeper in the face of your own source completely contradicting the statement you're trying to make.



Indeed, one could make that argument.
However, if hospitalizations were only lower due to that, one would see comparatively higher case rates as well.
It's unfortunate that you're so easily distracted by the wedge issues the media uses to distract you from real issues. You're over here arguing about how unfair it is that people with previous infections being "required" to get vaccinated, all the while ignoring the very real issue of the risk that Covid poses to the unvaccinated population. Instead you're just contributing to the media's misinformation campaign and trying to distract people from the real, measurable, tangible benefit of vaccination.

Treatments with off-label drugs is shunned by the government.
Treatment with off-label drugs is shunned by the MEDICAL COMMUNITY.

But let's be surprised that the hospitals only have ventilators to offer once you get there.
(By the way, vaccinated suffer from this medical idiocy the same was as unvaccinated.)

After two years of pandemic, we still have ZERO recommendations what to do if you catch Covid.
Fauci will tell you to stay home until it gets so bad that you have to go to the hospital. WTF is that ? With all their money, they can't figure anything else out ?
What? I guess this is just another line the media is feeding you so that you can help them continue to spread disinformation.

If you actually wanted to know the answers to your questions, they're out there and very easily accessible. But you're not interested in engaging with the science, you just want to consume the content the media is feeding you so you get that good shot of chemicals to your brain by feeling outraged and superior to all of the poor, deluded idiots that are paying attention to the actual science.

https://www.covid19treatmentguidelin...ized-patients/

Two more drugs got EUA in December for treatment of non-hospitalized patients who are at risk of disease severity progression. This is in addition to the many treatments for both hospitalized and non-hospitalized people that have been in place for much of the pandemic.

Just because you only consume outrage media designed to feed you one-liners, misinformation, and complaints doesn't mean the science isn't advancing. Again, if you really cared to know what progress is being made scientifically, it's a 3 second Google search away. But you don't want to know, you want to complain. (about Fauci )

Treatment and vaccines don't have to be in competition.
Vaccines can't treat people that get sick. Vaccines don't prevent people from getting sick. Why the hate ?
This is wild. At no point have I disparaged relevant, medically-backed treatment. At no point have I advocated that sick people get vaccinated in order to get them well again. Making these statements is you just trying to reframe the conversation and pretend that you're providing some kind of reasonable viewpoint and I'm over here just "hating."

Oh, and vaccines have prevented LOTS of people from getting sick. But yet again, you believe in a false dichotomy fed to you by the media where if a single vaccinated person gets sick, we can declare the vaccine ineffective, ignoring the actual statistics and the real, measurable reduction in infections.

I'll go ahead and provide your next argument for you: BUT THE VACCINATED CAN STILL SPREAD IT!!

Yes, at a much lower rate than the unvaccinated, and for a shorter period of time.

It's wild to me that you haven't brought up VAERS yet, or has the media given up on pushing that narrative like they were last summer?
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Online
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Feb 4, 2022, 08:22 PM
 
https://www.wbez.org/stories/frozen-...b-98cfc13abe00

The government is surveilling your poop.
     
ghporter
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Location: San Antonio TX USA
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Feb 6, 2022, 07:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Your science is wrong.
In terms of hospitalizations (which is what really counts), natural immunity is as good as vaxxed.
Shockingly, this is now even admitted by the CDC, after Israel had figured it our 6 months ago.

https://www.peakprosperity.com/the-c...he-vaccinated/

Here's the data:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e1.htm

-t
Interesting. This seems to be an artifact of the differences among variants, particularly Delta. “My science” was referred to in the initial part of the CDC document; data collected later - and correlated to new variants - shows that more recent infections (typically with Delta in the CDC document’s discussion) seem to confer equivalent immunity to vaccination.

Still, considering that the incidence of complications from COVID infection is far higher than the incidence of complications from being vaccinated against it, I’ll take the shot and keep my sense of smell, lack of brain fog, higher incidence of vascular problems, and so on.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
 
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