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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Applications > old chestnut revisited - best browser for OSX

old chestnut revisited - best browser for OSX
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m a d r a
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Mar 11, 2005, 08:13 AM
 
i know this has been done to death a million times over, but at present i find myself switching between browsers on an almost weekly basis, as i think i've found the right one, only to discover a few days down the line that it has some glaring problem that starts to irritate the hell out of me. in the never-ending quest to find the one that does it all right, will we ever get the perfect browser?

my tuppence worth on the ones i'm currently shuttling between, in order of most recent usage:

omniweb
my current [at least for the next few days!] i love the way it looks and i love the preview-style sidebar for er... keeping tabs on tabs, but i always find that the longer i use it the s-l-o-o-o-w-w-e-e-r-r it gets and the more it leaks memory like a seive. i know folks will say, just shut it down every hour or so and purge the cache, but that's not the point. i want it to work properly in the first place. it is also the most sluggish of all the OSX browsers out there.

safari
i came back to safari a few days ago after a longish spell of thinking i'd probably stick with camino, but within days it was driving me mad by refusing to display anything but a blank page when i went to my creditcard co. site http://www.capitalone.co.uk. i know it's probably not safari's fault. the website doubtless shits all over web standards and was designed by ****witts who don't realise that there exists any software outside of what micro$haft produces, but the fact still remains that safari just chokes on far too many websites, compared to any other browser i've used. it seems to be regularly tripped up by everything from java* to flash to ASP to PHP etc. etc. [plus - i still feckin' loathe that 'brushed metal'!]

camino
came to this one quite late and it was my current until last week. again, it looks great and when i first fired it up i was amazed at the speed, compared to omniweb, but it has real problems with pages containing animated gifs [such as the 'post entry' pages on this very forum] which makes typing in text a ball-breaking experience. i also find the fact that the 'go' menu treats each tab as having its own separate 'history' rather than there being one global one a real pain in the arse. i'll often close a tab and then realise i want to go to back to a page which was on that tab. since the 'go' menu only allows access to history for the current tab i have to faff around in the history window, drilling down through folders to find where i was minutes before.

netscrape
poor old netscrape! it's as ugly as the elephant man after a punch-up, but i always have a copy of it in my applications folder because in spite of everything else, when your 'good enough to lick' pretty-boy 'cocoalicious' browser lets you down, you can be 99% certain that ugly old netscrape will pretty much manage to display every web page you throw at it.

opera
i got this bundled with dreamweaver and swayed by promises such as 'fastest browser ever' and 'full standards compliance' i thought i'd give it a spin. my interest lasted approximately 5 minutes. horrible interface! [in fact it's nearly all interface and not much browser] and it failed miserably to cope with some fairly straightforward [and standards compliant!] CSS based sites i threw at it - yukk!


[*speaking of java - why do macs still handle it so abysmally compared to PCs? with java being one of the official development languages for OSX, you'd have thought, by now, apple could at least have made a half-arsed attempt to get it to run properly, but i still find myself tensing in anticipation of a crash or a freeze-up when i see those dreaded words "starting java applet" appear in my browser's status bar]
     
dice
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Mar 11, 2005, 12:17 PM
 
eh what about firefox or iCab
sheesh, that took 8 hours for me to be asked to change my sig...
     
TETENAL
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Mar 11, 2005, 12:24 PM
 
Originally posted by dice:
eh what about firefox or iCab
Firefox isn't a proper Mac application. iCab will rock in version 3.0. This version is currently in private beta, but not yet publicly available.
     
DeathMan
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Mar 11, 2005, 12:44 PM
 
Originally posted by TETENAL:
Firefox isn't a proper Mac application.
It is as much as Netscape. Or Word for that matter. What specifically are you referring to?
     
Krypton
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Mar 11, 2005, 01:07 PM
 
I think a lot of people go through constant switching of Mac browsers, mainly because they all suck in some regard.
     
TETENAL
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Mar 11, 2005, 02:18 PM
 
Originally posted by DeathMan:
What specifically are you referring to?
Have a look at the blue default buttons. In Firefox they are not throbbing. That is because they are just "pictures" of a button, but they don't are "real" Mac buttons. It's the same with all other controls. Firefox never uses the real ones, but only pictures of Mac controls. Basically it is just the windows that are Mac, everything inside the windows is self made. Firefox feels alien on Mac. At least Mozilla doesn't pretend with the modern theme.

It can also not handle the Mac application global menubar properly. If a sheet or dialog is open, you can not use the menubar any more. Or when you close all windows but the downloads window you are screwed. On a Mac you can continue to use the menubar when a sheet is open on one window.
     
mitchell_pgh
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Mar 11, 2005, 02:38 PM
 
What about Apple's very own Cyberdog!

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Chuckit
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Mar 11, 2005, 02:58 PM
 
Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
What about Apple's very own Cyberdog!
I remember that. Man, what a shitty browser. I think Cyberdog is what managed to singlehandedly kill OpenDoc.
Personally, I have Safari, Shiira, Firefox and Camino in my Dock, because every couple of weeks I'll get fed up with one and have to move on to the next in the list.
( Last edited by Chuckit; Mar 11, 2005 at 03:03 PM. )
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CaptainHaddock
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Mar 11, 2005, 06:28 PM
 
I'm in your shoes, Madra. I was recently using Camino and switched to the latest Omniweb for many of the reasons you list. Opera isn't bad once you re-arrange the UI into something sane, but it's still not very Mac-like and there's no way to block ads.

I've never encountered problems with bank websites in Safari or Omniweb, but maybe Canadian banks are more Mac-savvy, or I'm just lucky.

I haven't had any Java problems on my end.

Netscrape? Ewww... please flush that turd back where it belongs.

Omniweb's site-specific preferences and ad blocking are what have really won me over. People always protest that Safari can block ads with PithHelmet, but I've heard too many bad things about PithHelmet slowing down Safari.

IE is a beast that shall remain in its cave, undisturbed.
     
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Mar 12, 2005, 09:20 AM
 
Originally posted by TETENAL:
Firefox isn't a proper Mac application.
Bullshĩt.
     
jamil5454
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Mar 12, 2005, 11:09 AM
 
If you're looking for compatibility, I find the original Mozilla browser from the Mozilla suite to be the best. It may not be the fastest and nicest looking browser in the world but it gets the job done great.
     
ManOfSteal
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Mar 12, 2005, 11:32 AM
 
Originally posted by TETENAL:
iCab will rock in version 3.0. This version is currently in private beta, but not yet publicly available.
What is iCab doing in v3.0 that is so great? I haven't heard a thing about that...
     
OptimusG4
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Mar 12, 2005, 02:27 PM
 
I do like the latest nightly of Firefox, the preference pane seems to be more OS X like.
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m a d r a  (op)
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Mar 12, 2005, 04:15 PM
 
Originally posted by TETENAL [re icab]:
.......This version is currently in private beta......
has any version of icab in history ever made it out of beta? for a long time i thought the app's name was "icab beta"
     
theolein
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Mar 13, 2005, 01:21 PM
 
Madra, as some others have said, you could try Firefox instead of Netscape or Mozilla. It loads much faster and uses less memory. Also, the version of Opera that comes with Dreamweaver is very old. You could try the newest 7.54 version, which I occasionally use, since it's quite standards compliant and fairly fast. http://www.opera.com/download/
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bmedina
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Mar 13, 2005, 02:37 PM
 
Seriously, how can one go through a comparison of browsers without even mentioning Firefox?

Re: Java. You need to understand what the difference is between Java as a programming language and Java as a runtime environment.
     
RevEvs
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Mar 13, 2005, 05:03 PM
 
I keep swapping between firefox and camino. obviously the g5 optimized versions of both. depends ont he mood im on, sometimes i need all the extensions of firefox, and some other times i just liek the simplicity of camino.

Note: more browsers need a scrapbook feature ala IE5 (and Firefox with extension installed)
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ManOfSteal
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Mar 13, 2005, 05:11 PM
 
Originally posted by RevEvs:
Note: more browsers need a scrapbook feature ala IE5 (and Firefox with extension installed)
Amen, that is my favorite feature from back in the day for sure...

     
m a d r a  (op)
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Mar 14, 2005, 10:02 AM
 
Originally posted by theolein:
Madra, as some others have said, you could try Firefox instead of Netscape or Mozilla.....
i did try firefox at one stage a while back, but abandoned it pretty soon after, for some reason which i no longer remember. maybe i'll revisit it and see if the intervening months have improved it enough to merit another chance.

i think it's interesting tho' that most of the folks who've replied on this thread mention that they also keep two or three browsers on hand which they regularly switch between. the surfeit of browsers for mac OSX is often touted as a good thing and an example of how much choice there is in the market these days, but doesn't the fact that most of us have to keep several browsers on board just to guarantee access to all the sites we want to visit suggest that what we've really got here is a case of "quantity not quality".

this situation doesn't seem to arise in any other software area; i may have tried various options in the past, but after a few days or weeks of use, i generally settle on one particular app for a purpose and stick to that. it's only in the area of 'web browsing' that i'm forever shuttling back and forth between a number of options which are not quite good enough.
     
cpac
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Mar 14, 2005, 11:06 AM
 
Originally posted by m a d r a:
this situation doesn't seem to arise in any other software area; i may have tried various options in the past, but after a few days or weeks of use, i generally settle on one particular app for a purpose and stick to that. it's only in the area of 'web browsing' that i'm forever shuttling back and forth between a number of options which are not quite good enough.
I think that's because there is very little user investment in using a web browser compared to other software - bookmarks and preferences (which can often be shared or imported easily across or between browsers anyway) are about the only user-created things that come out of a web browser. The rest of the content is created by other folks and works the same (or ought to) regardless of which browser you are using. Compared to (say) a word processor or similar, there's less memorizing of controls, less investment in a document format, less learning that needs to take place, etc. It's very easy to switch browsers.

That said, I keep only one browser in my dock - Omniweb. I'll open Camino/Safari/IE if something doesn't work right in Omniweb, but those are few and far between, and I don't seem to get the memory leaks or other slowing the people seem to complain of (perhaps it's because most pages I visit have no java applets or something, but regardless of why, it's my experience).
cpac
     
mitchell_pgh
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Mar 14, 2005, 11:21 AM
 
Other then a few quarks, I'm rather content with Safari. I'm I 100% happy, no way, but as long as Apple continues improving it, I'm happy.
     
Sarc
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Mar 14, 2005, 12:56 PM
 
I used to use Opera as my main browser and FireFox as backup. However, one day I saw the thread on FireFox PPC Optimized Builds and decided to try those out.
Had to install a theme that I liked, and some extensions to mimick Opera as much as possible.

... then came Adblock

now FireFox is my default browser.
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F_Elz
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Mar 14, 2005, 10:02 PM
 
hmm icab 3 beta
( Last edited by F_Elz; Mar 16, 2005 at 04:00 AM. )
     
sixer
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Mar 14, 2005, 10:24 PM
 
G4 optimized Firefox with Adblock.

Adblock is the best thing that's happened to browsing since tabs.
     
Kyros
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Mar 14, 2005, 10:57 PM
 
I use Safari, and I have never encountered a website it wouldn't load. It can be a bit slow, and I have never found a browser I truly like (PC/ Mac/ whatever). Firefox felt a little funny on the mac, although I have not tried the optimized ones yet.

Although, right now iCab is very quickly becoming appealing. I've just started trying it out, and it's looking very good. I definitely reccommend trying it anyway.
     
Macpilot
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Mar 25, 2005, 02:45 PM
 
I tried Omniweb and bought a license way back when it was one of the only browsers for OS X. Loved it at the time, but it did not work with many sites.

Just tried it again last night, and WOW! I love it! It is the only one of Explorer, Firefox, and Safari, that will remember my ID/password for the Bank of America site.

The tab idea is great. And I am just trying out this workspace thing....very cool. Lot's to digest as it has so many different features and terminology.

So as far as the drawbacks of Omniweb, what do you people think? Any sites that you have trouble with on Omniweb?

I was able to solve that Safari bookmark icon problem which was really the only big gripe for me with Safari, but now I am thinking about going to Omni again. Oh yeah, the other gripe with Safari is that some sites still don't work properly, or at all, where with Firefox they do.

So right now, I would have to say either Firefox or Omniweb are my favorites. Just wish Firefox had the polished look of Safari and Omniweb.
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wataru
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Mar 27, 2005, 07:32 AM
 
Incidentally, here is a good set of rules for use with Adblock. Just go straight to the bottom and use the latest.
     
Dr. Smoke
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Mar 27, 2005, 09:12 PM
 
Since getting into OmniWeb years ago, I've stopped looking at other browsers.

Just a few of the ways, IMO, OmniWeb is light-years ahead of Safari as an example.

1. Try disabling animations in Safari, a basic function in virtually all other browsers, including OmniWeb: nowhere to be found in Safari.

2. OmniWeb provides sophisticated content filtering, built-in and easily tailored. I virtually never see advertising. Other than popup blocking, Safari has no such capability.

3. With OmniWeb, you can selectively disable plugins. With other browser0s I've examined, disabling plugins is all-or-nothing. I run with Flash disabled (no annoying Flash ads) but can still use other plugin-dependent content, like QuickTime. Once again, Safari can't do this: plugins are all-or-nothing.

4. With OmniWeb, you can set site-specific preferences. For example, you may have one site on which you like the links to be underlined, but on other sites you do not want underlined links. Once again, something Safari cannot do.

5. OmniWeb is far more stable: I can't recall the last time OmniWeb crashed. Safari seems to be crash-prone and particularly subject to cache errors.

6. The OmniWeb folks actually listen to their registered users. I submitted requirements like #1 above via the Safari feedback and no joy. I suggested #3 to the OmniWeb folks and it was in the next release.

That's only a small sample of the ways, IMO, that OmniWeb is far superior to Safari.
Good Luck!

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Macpilot
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Mar 27, 2005, 09:37 PM
 
Anybody having trouble with OmniWeb and eBay?

I try to sign in and most of the time it says "temporarily unable to access".
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kcmac
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Mar 27, 2005, 09:45 PM
 
Safari for me. Get's tiring trying a bunch of browsers anyway. I want to search the internet, not for a browser.
     
OptimusG4
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Mar 27, 2005, 10:50 PM
 
Originally posted by kcmac:
Safari for me. Get's tiring trying a bunch of browsers anyway. I want to search the internet, not for a browser.
Firefox, with the adblock and flashblock extensions, and also the forecastfox extension for fun.
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Ilja
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Mar 28, 2005, 07:23 AM
 
I'm in the process of ditching Safari. Not sure for which browser yet though. Safari keeps beachballing and crashing more and more for me. It's very laggy
( Last edited by Ilja; Mar 28, 2005 at 10:27 AM. )
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JKT
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Mar 28, 2005, 07:41 AM
 
Originally posted by Macpilot:
So as far as the drawbacks of Omniweb, what do you people think? Any sites that you have trouble with on Omniweb?
OW is going to suffer very similar issues with sites as Safari as they both share the same rendering engine although OW can overcome some of those issues more easily as you can spoof other browser's ID strings which is often enough to make a site load when it initially refuses to do so (so try ID'ing as a different browser at e-bay, or deleting your cookies for that site).

The most oft repeated criticism of OW is that it is slower to render than the other major browsers which is true in many situations. Another drawback is that OW can end up using a lot of RAM owing to the ease with which you can open up several tens to hundreds of sites at once through its Workspaces feature. Lastly, some of the new plug-ins (e.g. Acrobat Reader and Pangea VR) don't work in OW. There are a few other issues but they are mostly minor.
     
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Mar 28, 2005, 08:51 AM
 
Originally posted by theolein:
Madra, as some others have said, you could try Firefox instead of Netscape or Mozilla. It loads much faster and uses less memory.
This is not true, to any significant extent. Feel free to try it yourself. The loading time between Mozilla and Firefox is neglegable and the page loading time between them slightly favors Mozilla. Neither browser uses much RAM. Safari and OmniWEB seem to be far more guilty of sucking memory away.

The quote above was correct in 2002 (if Firefox existed then I don't recall) but no more.

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Chuckit
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Mar 28, 2005, 11:27 AM
 
I find OmniWeb is quite nice. The only thing that kills me with it is this weird problem where it will just stop loading pages halfway through, and it'll repeat the problem if you hit the reload button (hitting return in the address bar works, though). I don't know if that's only me, but otherwise it's a very smooth browsing experience, anyway.
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m a d r a  (op)
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Mar 28, 2005, 11:58 AM
 
Originally posted by Macpilot:
Anybody having trouble with OmniWeb and eBay?

I try to sign in and most of the time it says "temporarily unable to access".
most mac browsers i've tried do my head in when using ebay. most of the time the back button somehow breaks [esp. on safari and omniweb] and safari just refuses to keep me logged in, no matter how many times i delete the ebay cookies and allow it to set them again. i'm just resigned to ebay-ing being a s-l-o-o-w irritating process.

pity it's so feckin' addictive!
     
ryaxnb
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Mar 28, 2005, 01:03 PM
 
OmniWeb is my browser of choice. OMNIWEB! OmniWeb, yeah. Yeah, OmniWeb is a RAM hog, a bit slow, plus you have to pay, but it's totally worth it. It is a great, feature-packed browser.

Basic user?
Shiira is your browser.

Feature-user, Geek, Pro, Web addict, etc.?
OmniWeb is your browser.

Corporate user? (i.e. needs stable, secure platform)
Safari is your browser.

OS 9 user?
Get OS X. Web browsing sucks on 9. Use a mix of Wamcom and iCab till then.

Shiira
Really a nice browser. Works great, looks nice, rocks the house.

iCab
Shows promise but needs work. 3.0 is too long in the waiting.

OmniWeb
Packed with features, slow, crashy. Good browser but a little crash prone. Costs money. Recovers easy from crashes, runs great, love the tabs.

IE 5
Die bastard die! No tabs, too many pop-ups, sucks.

Opera
Get v.8, it's fast, sleek, but not traditional. It's feature packed, carries ads, and slightly crashy. Use it if you want OmniWeb but can't afford it or don't like its tabs.

Safari
Well, ho hum. This slightly aging browser needs a refresh. Luckily, it will get a big update in Tiger; it needs one. In fact it needs more then that; it should have a close tabbed window warning, site preferences, and remember where you were browsing. It's OK though. .

Moz
Bulky, slow, and clunky, it carries no significant advantage save for Composer. Netscape is the same thing.

Firefox
is Moz without bulk. Streamlined, it doesn't look that Mac-like (buttons, context menu, sheet use, etc.) but runs fairly well.

Camino
Is like Firefox but without the advantages. It shows promise but is short on features.
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Mar 28, 2005, 04:54 PM
 
iCab? I rather use Cyberdog!

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CharlesS
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Mar 28, 2005, 05:12 PM
 
Originally posted by ryaxnb:
Firefox
is Moz without bulk. Streamlined, it doesn't look that Mac-like (buttons, context menu, sheet use, etc.) but runs fairly well.

Camino
Is like Firefox but without the advantages. It shows promise but is short on features.
Camino is also like Firefox but without the disadvantages. It does look Mac-like, and uses proper buttons, context menus, sheets, etc. It also seems to start up slightly faster.

Not that Firefox is a bad browser, but Camino is more Mac-like.

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Janaka Cooray
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Mar 28, 2005, 09:09 PM
 
This is not sounding good. Firefox is regarded as the best browser in Windows (for those users that care - many don't.)

In fact, Firefox is now estimated to have approaching 10% of the browser market worldwide. Firefox loads fast on Windows, renders fast, has little reported compatibility problems (only sites using activeX won't work - and they are disappearing.)

I looked at this thread hoping for an answer to which browser to use as Safari seems to be obviously slow. In addition, it has a problem handling animated GIFS (and 'is not ready for primetime'), as I have been told on another thread in the hardware forum - thus is seems perfectly logical to seek another alternative.

What I am reading though, is that OS X browsers are either: slow, buggy, poorly featured, or poorly integrated into the OS (blocking manu bar etc.)

Is this really the state of browsers on this platform. I am a very recent 'switcher' - and whilst I appreciate not having to dowload security patches all the time, I'm finding OS X to have been hyped somewhat as making Windows seem so inferior that it is one of the great crimes of our century that people are forced to run it. But at least web browsing can be a no-brainer if you want it to be on Windows.

Hope someone will prove me that the 'switch' is the best thing I ever did (no Mac Zealots need reply.)
     
wataru
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Mar 28, 2005, 09:48 PM
 
Why don't you actually try the browsers before passing judgement on them? You can't always take peoples' word for things.

I find Firefox on the Mac to be excellent. People who complain about it being ugly are either too picky or haven't bothered looking into the many excellent skins available.
     
Ilja
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Mar 28, 2005, 10:05 PM
 
Couple of (whiney) interface-things I have with Camino:

1) ugly stars instead of dots in a password-field
2) text on buttons is shifted up a bit, it's not perfectly vertically aligned
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CharlesS
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Mar 28, 2005, 10:49 PM
 
Originally posted by Janaka Cooray:
This is not sounding good. Firefox is regarded as the best browser in Windows (for those users that care - many don't.)

In fact, Firefox is now estimated to have approaching 10% of the browser market worldwide. Firefox loads fast on Windows, renders fast, has little reported compatibility problems (only sites using activeX won't work - and they are disappearing.)

I looked at this thread hoping for an answer to which browser to use as Safari seems to be obviously slow. In addition, it has a problem handling animated GIFS (and 'is not ready for primetime'), as I have been told on another thread in the hardware forum - thus is seems perfectly logical to seek another alternative.

What I am reading though, is that OS X browsers are either: slow, buggy, poorly featured, or poorly integrated into the OS (blocking manu bar etc.)

Is this really the state of browsers on this platform. I am a very recent 'switcher' - and whilst I appreciate not having to dowload security patches all the time, I'm finding OS X to have been hyped somewhat as making Windows seem so inferior that it is one of the great crimes of our century that people are forced to run it. But at least web browsing can be a no-brainer if you want it to be on Windows.

Hope someone will prove me that the 'switch' is the best thing I ever did (no Mac Zealots need reply.)
Most of the browsers mentioned (Safari, Shiira, Camino, FireFox, OmniWeb) are really quite good. It's just a matter of which you like better than the others. None of them are perfect, because no software is, but I would prefer any of those five over IE on Windows.

Give them a try - you'll find something you like. I myself prefer Safari and Shiira for the spell check feature.

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JKT
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Mar 29, 2005, 08:47 AM
 
Originally posted by Janaka Cooray:
Is this really the state of browsers on this platform.
Nope, it is more the state of the people using the browsers - we Mac users tend to be very picky about what we like in our OS and the applications that run on it. AFAIK, Firefox on the Mac is pretty much identical to FF on a PC, so if you like it on one, you'll like it on the other. What many Mac users don't like about FF (or Mozilla) is that it is evidently not designed from the ground up on a Mac and therefore it suffers from some idiomatic behaviour and UI-isms that are inherited from its PC focussed background. "If it doesn't look and behave like a Mac app then it isn't a Mac app" so to speak. To notice these things, you'd have had to be using Macs for some time. FWIW, Firefox is a good browser, but I much prefer OmniWeb, warts and all.

The other thing to realise is that many of these browsers are brand new - Safari and Camino, for example, and therefore exhibit version "1.0"-itis. The bugs, whatever they are, etc are still being ironed out.
( Last edited by JKT; Mar 29, 2005 at 09:00 AM. )
     
Janaka Cooray
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Mar 29, 2005, 10:11 AM
 
Originally posted by JKT:
Nope, it is more the state of the people using the browsers - we Mac users tend to be very picky about what we like in our OS and the applications that run on it.
OK, being choosy is not a bad thing. But anyone care to come up with a list of browser pro/ cons like the first posting to help a brand new member to the Mac community? I think that first one may have been a little inaccurate since Safari was reported as crashing on so many web sites - I've only been using a Mac for a few days - but I would say that Safari's weakness are it's percived slowness and bug with typing when animated GIFs are present - not it's hideous incompatibility.

(Just my opinion) I think we can throw out Mozilla (since the Mozilla foundation is officially deprecating it.) AFAIK, Netscape is in the same situation as well. Camino is made under the auspices of the same organization that makes Firefox - so it seems that Camino is the way they want things to go for the Mac in the longer term (and hence why Firefox doesn't seem 'integrated' with OS X.)

And, just for the sake of completeness, IE is deprecated (as Microsoft supports Safari.)

So anyone with experience care to compare the remaining browsers in terms of performance, elegance, compatibiliy etc.? I think it would be useful to contrast to the first posting.
     
TETENAL
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Mar 29, 2005, 11:20 AM
 
Originally posted by Janaka Cooray:
Safari seems to be obviously slow. In addition, it has a problem handling animated GIFS (and 'is not ready for primetime')
Safari is definitely "ready for primetime".
     
eggman
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Mar 31, 2005, 11:32 AM
 
I've been a die-hard user of Safari for years, but I switched to FireFox a few weeks ago, and am very, very happy with it.

For one thing, the Web Developer extension is worth its weight in gold to me, a web developer.

And AdBlock is fantastic.

I just kept running into sites that didn't like Safari (and I'm not talking about minor rendering issues) as recently as a couple of weeks ago... and got tired of that. I haven't seen this with Firefox.
     
m a d r a  (op)
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Mar 31, 2005, 01:15 PM
 
Originally posted by Janaka Cooray:
.....I think that first one [the original post] may have been a little inaccurate since Safari was reported as crashing on so many web sites......
hi. mine was the original post you referred to. i didn't say safari was particularly crash-prone. like most 'good' OSX apps, crashes are a rarity. when i said safari "chokes" on a lot more websites than other browsers i've tried, i meant that it has difficulty in rendering the pages correctly - not that the browser itself crashes.

these problems manifest themselves in a variety of ways; browser window is blank with no content [ http://www.capitalone.co.uk ] or the browser back button or the 'submit' button on forms doesn't work [various sites - try browsing listings generated from a search on ebay to see a good example - hitting the back button tends to reload the current listing rather than going back a page]. i also find that safari has a lot of problems with java applets [which admittedly tend to give most OSX browsers problems].

i'd also agree with what JKT said; all these browsers would piss all over IE and finding fault with all or any of them isn't saying they're not good [or even great] apps. "pickiness" is just one of those things that comes with the territory when you decide to nail your colours to the "apple mast" - after all, if we weren't so fussy, we'd all use that other third-rate operating system, wouldn't we?
     
LeeG
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Apr 1, 2005, 01:19 PM
 
Well here's my 2 cents - I had bounced around a bit, trying new browsers as they came out, and always reverted to safari - mostly because I could sync my safari bookmarks across multiple macs with .mac - a very nice feature. I can log into any of 3 macs my family has, and be staring at the SAME browsing experience.

That said, I have recently settled on Camino as my browser of choice. I found a few sites that didn't perform well in safari (mostly banking - https://www.commerceonlinebanking.com/ and https://www.yodlee.com/newarch/index.do) The sites work, but the button behavior isn't quite right, they don't refresh quite right, etc. I always found myself using Camino (in which they work perfectly), and yes, I have submitted these to Apple.

One of my problems with Firefox, is I like to browse using the up/down arrows, as I am on a 12" powerbook, no external scroll mouse. I have found firefox consistently jumps up in processor usage and the scrolling drags when scrolling with the arrow keys. For some reason it's not like that in Camino. Camino DOES have the animated gif problem - that sucks.

Safari is generally a good, workhorse browser, but I have been having more and more spinning beachballs, and application crashes.

BTW - Anyone know how to get the tabs in Camino to look like they do on the nightly builds (ie more safari-like)? I prefer that to the aqua-bubble tabs in the stable release-


Lee

ps- I believe Firefox is the best browser on Windows, when using PCs at work, I use that exclusively, and it's sweet.
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cpac
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Apr 1, 2005, 03:13 PM
 
Originally posted by Janaka Cooray:
So anyone with experience care to compare the remaining browsers in terms of performance, elegance, compatibiliy etc.? I think it would be useful to contrast to the first posting.
Safari
+ Apple's own, speedy, widely compatible, excellent system integration
- not universally compatible yet, few bugs, developer doesn't respond much to input, limited feature set, non-standard toolbar with limited customizing options

OmniWeb
+ webcore (but not webkit) based, great looking, more full featured as-is than any other browser, unique tab system, customizable shortcuts, per-site preferences, proper toolbar, workspaces, responsive developer
- not universally compatible, will often lag behind most recent Safari release version, widely perceived as slower than other browsers

Camino
+ gecko based browser with true aqua front-end, more compatible than webcore based browsers, fast
- lacks extensibility of FireFox and so has limited feature set

FireFox
+ gecko based, extensible, fast
- lacks true aqua front-end, feels un-mac-like to many, extra features require downloading/installing/updating multiple extensions

IE
+ works with just about everything out there, including many IE-only sites, officially supported web browser by many companies
- no longer being updated, slow, limited feature set, M$.

I don't use any other browsers, and of those above I use OW for 95% of everything I do, only going to one of the others if OW doesn't work for some reason.
cpac
     
 
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