[OAW]

In the interest of full disclosure, I will say right off that I have only been following this story peripherally. Having said that, I would hope that we could all recognize that these types of issues aren't just theoretical or abstract debates about government spending, taxes, and debt. The choices being made have a real impact on real people as well.

In the end, Dimitris Christoulas had little hope left, he said.

“I see no other option for a dignified end before having to scavenge through the garbage for my food,” the 77-year-old retired pharmacist from Karditsa wrote in the note found on him after he shot himself to death in Athens' main square yesterday morning.

His suicide sparked demonstrations, recriminations, and a public debate on its significance. As people took to the square in commiseration and anger, Prime Minister Lukas Papademos expressed sorrow.

“It’s tragic that a fellow man has ended his own life," he said "In these difficult times for our society, we, both the state and the citizens, have to support the people next to us that are in distress."

The public suicide as a political statement is highly unusual in Greek political tradition.

“I have to say this is a little out of our political culture,” says Michalis Spourdalakis, professor of political sociology at the University of Athens. “But, this is a political act, despite the different comments uttered by politicians and journalists in Greece. They’re trying to depoliticize it, saying that it was a personal choice of a troubled fellow citizen. But, his life, his death, the suicide note, and the spot he chose, leave no room for doubt that this is a political stance.”

Mr. Christoulas, who, like most Greek pensioners had his pension slashed last year, chose Syntagma Square, which is across from parliament, and committed suicide during the morning rush hour.

“If this suicide hadn’t taken place in Syntagma Square, we wouldn’t be talking about it today,” says Konstantinos Lourantos, president of the pharmacists in Attica, on the periphery of Athens. “No one has talked about the other 2,000 suicides that have taken place in over the past few years.”

“He retired early so his pension was smaller than the 800 euros [or $1,044, a month] pharmacists are now getting after the cuts,” says Mr. Lourantos, who knew Christoulas. “He had health problems, but I remember he had dignity and he really didn’t want to become someone’s burden.”

Although Christoulas is the first to commit such a public suicide since the Greek crisis began, there have been other attempts – a clear sign of the desperation that extreme austerity measures have caused.

In February, a married couple threatened to jump off the third floor of the public organization they worked at after they were told that it was closing because of state budget cuts. Without their jobs, they wouldn’t be able to afford the 1,600 euros ($2,088) a month they needed for medicine for their handicapped child.

In October, a man set himself on fire in Thessaloniki, the country’s second largest city, after a private bank threatened to take his house. In February, a state television employee committed suicide after his contract wasn’t renewed.

In 2011, suicides increased from the previous year by 45 percent, with the majority of them attributed to the economic crisis. The increase gives Greece claim to the highest increase in suicides in Europe.

Yesterday afternoon, hundreds of demonstrators left candles and flowers next to the tree in Syntagma Square, where Christoulas committed suicide. In the evening, the crowd turned violent and riot police fired tear gas and flash grenades against the protesters.

The demonstrations were organized via Facebook, and included an event called "Altogether at Syntamga so we don't get used to death." In the event description, an organizer writes, “We can’t just watch them murdering people. Syntagma Square’s symbolism makes it meaningful and [calls] for an immediate reaction.”

The square’s name means "Constitution" – a tragic irony, protestors say, since the Greek Constitution obliges the state to protect the right of human dignity and well-being.

With unemployment reaching 21 percent last month and the IMF forecasting a 4.7 percent contraction of the economy for 2012, the future seems bleak. Elections are likely to be held in early May but the IMF has announced that it will ask the new government for new budget cuts.

“The government has to understand that it has to bring back optimism to Greeks’ lives,” said Lourantos. “Because Greeks didn’t suddenly become depressed. We were always optimists, and loud, and enjoyed life. If they take that away, it’s like taking away life itself.”

The protesters outside the Parliament chant “murderers” and “traitors.”

“We know and all studies show us that when the percentage of unemployment rises, the suicide rates also rise,” says Thodoris Megaloikonomou, a psychiatrist at the Psychiatric Hospital of Attica. “If you were in court, how would you call these people deciding on these austerity measures? Murderers, right?"

A new demonstration is scheduled for today at 6 pm local time to commemorate Christoulas and demonstrate against the austerity measures. Twenty percent of the population lives below the poverty line, according to UNICEF’s latest report released yesterday.

Athens suicide: a cry for dignity from downtrodden - CSMonitor.com

I'm just saying ....

OAW

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by OAW 

In the interest of full disclosure, I will say right off that I have only been following this story peripherally. Having said that, I would hope that we could all recognize that these types of issues aren't just theoretical or abstract debates about government spending, taxes, and debt. The choices being made have a real impact on real people as well.

Well, yeah, what's your point ?

Originally Posted by OAW 

I'm just saying ....

Just saying WHAT ?

-t

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

WTF ? Let them go f*cking broke.

Why are you so concerned about Greek politics??? To my knowledge, you don't live in Greece.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Why are you so concerned about Greek politics??? To my knowledge, you don't live in Greece.

Their debt crisis has worldwide ramifications.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by mduell 

Their debt crisis has worldwide ramifications.

Exactly. Would you say that the person selected by Americans to be their President also has worldwide ramifications?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Why are you so concerned about Greek politics??? To my knowledge, you don't live in Greece.

We (especially the Germans) are paying for it.
The US tax payer as well, through the IMF. Don't be fooled.

-t

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

We (especially the Germans) are paying for it.
The US tax payer as well, through the IMF. Don't be fooled.

-t

Fooled? Not at all. I, personally don't see the problem with being concerned about Greece. I'm just noting the irony of you voicing your opinion about the politics of another nation.

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Anyone else getting tired of all those Canucks voicing their opinion about *US* politics ?

Don't you have things to fix in Canuckistan, or at least some masturbating to take care off ?

-t

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

I'm just noting the irony of you voicing your opinion about the politics of another nation.

Bullshit.

Once you Canucks start paying through YOUR taxes for bailing out the US government, you can start complaining.

All of us ARE already paying for the Greece bullshit, everyday.
The IMF is funded by our tax dollars, the US funds 17% of the IMF, Canada about 3%.

-t

[Athens]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Bullshit.

Once you Canucks start paying through YOUR taxes for bailing out the US government, you can start complaining.

All of us ARE already paying for the Greece bullshit, everyday.
The IMF is funded by our tax dollars, the US funds 17% of the IMF, Canada about 3%.

-t

Thought we did already with oil.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Bullshit.

Once you Canucks start paying through YOUR taxes for bailing out the US government, you can start complaining.

All of us ARE already paying for the Greece bullshit, everyday.
The IMF is funded by our tax dollars, the US funds 17% of the IMF, Canada about 3%.

-t

Translation: It's ok for you to complain about other countries, but it's not ok for people from other countries to do the same.

Here, the excuse is paying off debt, elsewhere it'll be "security". Canadians have their own reasons for being concerned about the US leadership (influence over our leadership, influence over our economy, effect on global economy, effect on global security, etc.), but you'll never acknowledge these as valid.

[turtle777]

Bullshit.

-t

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Bullshit.

-t

Of course, because it means that every time you whine about Canadians being too interested in American politics, we'll find examples when you're too interested in the politics of another country (because, we ALL know it happens at least as often).

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Wow. Another thread devolves into more displays of Canukistani insecurity/xenophobia.

Is it a particularly cold and boring year this year, or is this just typical for America's Icebox?

[Athens]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

Wow. Another thread devolves into more displays of Canukistani insecurity/xenophobia.

Is it a particularly cold and boring year this year, or is this just typical for America's Icebox?

You know it would be a lot more accurate to say both Canadian and American insecurity/xenophobia. It takes 2. Some people of the American nationality here have become just super sensitive about being hated on. My guess is its starting to sink in that opinion of the US outside of the US is not as favorable as it used to be. Pride and nationalism gets in the way for both parties.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

In France there are companies that pay staff over 13 months. The 13th month is split in 2 and you get half of it at the end of June and half in mid-December.

Its really no different in North America, we just don't call it a 13 months. When you think about it, the 3 weeks of vacation pay people earn and add into it the statutory holidays it combines to work out to be a extra months of pay as well. We just get the pay split up by the days of the holidays and the time taken at vacations instead of lump sums at the end of the year or split twice a year.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by Athens 

You know it would be a lot more accurate to say both Canadian and American insecurity/xenophobia. It takes 2.

Bullshit. As Turtle already said.

This was a classic case where the subject had absolutely nothing to do with Canada vs. the US, yet a terribly insecure Canadian had to TRY desperately to make it into one. Like there's not enough threads with that dumb bitchfest going on already. These days, it seems like every other thread.

Some people of the American nationality here have become just super sensitive about being hated on. My guess is its starting to sink in that opinion of the US outside of the US is not as favorable as it used to be. Pride and nationalism gets in the way for both parties.

It might sink in, if you weren't so xenophobic and insecure about the chunk of earth you happen to occupy, and lines on a map and names, that few in America give a crap about what others outside our country care about in that regard. This is classic of you projecting your own insecurities off on Americans, and then getting mad when it turns out that most of us aren't. It's clearly a HUGE, nearly insurmountable deal to you what everyone else in the world thinks of canuckistan. Most Americans don't actually share that hang up.

At least Greece is an interesting and exotic place with an actual culture and history worth going to see and learn about. Yes, I think about Greece- even with all its current problems, in a much more favorable light than I do StaleWonderBreadLand.

Your like stale Wonderbread compared to some freshly baked homemade whole grain bread. Boring, plain. Average. Nothing all that exciting to recommend you. No one has any real emotion for you around the world, because you don't evoke any. You're like musack in an elevator. Barely noticeable. If anyone bothered to pay much attention, we'd probably be bored and annoyed by you, just like musack. But we don't. Like an elevator, it's some place you just pass through on the way to the place you actually want to be.

I'm just sayin'. I know I'm feeding into the already rampant insecurity problem, and of coruse I'm half-joking- but so be it. I'm annoyed at how insecure canukastanis ruin ever other thread with Canada-nonsense. Just get over whatever deep-rooted issues you have and learn to relax. It wouldn't be a big deal, you obsessing over US issues, it's just they way you obsess- relating everything to the deep-rooted fear you have of everyone not believing you that Canada is the worlds most perfect place, to be emulated in everything you do. It isn't. You clearly WANT to have justification to be as xenophobic and nationalistic about Canada as you believe all Americans are about the US- you just in reality have no REAL reasons to be.

[Wiskedjak]

I like how you're so insecure about your own nation that you feel the need to obsess about others interest in your nation, while at the same time you have no problems obsessing about other nations.

[Athens]

Removed... Tired of these games.... Ill be the better person and shutup.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Of course, because it means that every time you whine about Canadians being too interested in American politics, we'll find examples when you're too interested in the politics of another country (because, we ALL know it happens at least as often).

No, let me tell you why. Your arguments have no merit at all.

I am NOT complaining about Greek politics. I'm not offering advice. I'm no interested in what decisions their politicians make. I'm not expressing my favor of one Greek party over another. I'm not projecting my political beliefs on their agenda. I'm not trying to change THEM.

I'm talking to those countries and organizations (IMF, EU, ECB) that fund the futile exercise to "save" Greece. That stupid enabling of Greece has to stop, because it wastes your and my money.

When you Canuckistanis talk about US politics, it's always meddling, projecting, patronizing, trying to make us look more stupid than you etc. That shit gets really tired.
I'd be saying the same thing if a bunch of Americans started posting thread and after thread how to better Canada.

-t

[Waragainstsleep]

You're just trying to undermine their chosen political policy of being utterly fiscally irresponsible and letting everyone else pick up the tab. Thats pushing your agenda to affect them.

[Hawkeye_a]

Greece will go bankrupt. And I do not think it's fair that the German and French have to waste their resources trying to keep them afloat.

With the socialists looking to win the French election, Europe will be going down the drain this year. There will be a lot of wealth and capital fleeing Europe IMHO.

[turtle777]

Yep. Latest exit polls would give the anti-euro parties in Greece a 151 to 149 majority in their parliament. If they agree to work together just to end austerity and "european oppression", a Greek default is right around the corner.

Holland is going to push Merkel too much, leading Germany to declare "f@ck you" to enabled European socialist countries.

-t

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Greece will go bankrupt. And I do not think it's fair that the German and French have to waste their resources trying to keep them afloat.

With the socialists looking to win the French election, Europe will be going down the drain this year. There will be a lot of wealth and capital fleeing Europe IMHO.

The burden is only higher on France and Germany because they are the 2 biggest economies in the EU. All of the EU is contributing the same % amount of aid.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Athens 

The burden is only higher on France and Germany because they are the 2 biggest economies in the EU. All of the EU is contributing the same % amount of aid.

What are you talking about ? There are clear net payers and net receivers in the European experiment.
It doesn't matter at all that even dead-beat countries like Portugal contribute a nominal amount of money, when they get multiple times more back in "aid".

-t

[Athens]

If you look at the IMF portion of the bail out, the US by far is paying the most, along with Japan, UK, Canada, Germany. If you look at the EU portion of the bail out its Germany and France paying the most $$$ but all the EU nations are paying 1% of its GDP towards the Greece Bailout. Germany actually is hit twice because Germany is a big contributor to the IMF so they are paying 1% of GDP through the EU and more through the IMF. But its not exclusive to Germany and the only reason they are paying more direct dollars is because they have a bigger economy then other EU members. 1% of The Netherlands is a lot smaller then 1% from Germany.

That 1% for Germany is easier absorbed by Germany where as other countries also paying 1% in the EU will feel it a lot more. Sucks for Germany. But its not exclusive to Germany.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Athens 

That 1% for Germany is easier absorbed by Germany where as other countries also paying 1% in the EU will feel it a lot more. Sucks for Germany. But its not exclusive to Germany.

Well yeah, but the point is, why should Germany be forced to pay ANY money at all if it all ends up in dead-beat countries of Southern Europe ? Their demise is inevitable, only a matter of time.

And yes, I get that that this whole scheme is a secret bailout for a lot of the big European banks. Even more, the German people should put an end to this nonsense. The corrupt politicians, bribed by the banking elite, need to be put out of office.

-t

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Well yeah, but the point is, why should Germany be forced to pay ANY money at all if it all ends up in dead-beat countries of Southern Europe ? Their demise is inevitable, only a matter of time.

And yes, I get that that this whole scheme is a secret bailout for a lot of the big European banks. Even more, the German people should put an end to this nonsense. The corrupt politicians, bribed by the banking elite, need to be put out of office.

-t

It seems to me that your gripe should be more with your own country for not fighting hard enough against efforts to give more money to Greece, rather than whining about the economics and politics of Greece that put them into this position.

Anyone else getting tired of people voicing their opinion about *others* politics ?

Don't you have things to fix in your own country?
http://forums.macnn.com/95/political...8/#post4166484

[mduell]

After defaulting and reverting the austerity measures (in whichever order), how will Greece fund their primary deficit?

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Anyone else getting tired of people voicing their opinion about *others* politics ?

No, isn't that the purpose of this thread?

[P]

Originally Posted by mduell 

After defaulting and reverting the austerity measures (in whichever order), how will Greece fund their primary deficit?

Yes, this is the real problem, and the one I haven't heard a solution to. In effect, they can do so by cutting down on defense (Greece spends a disproportionate percentage of its GDP on defense in an attempt to keep up with its much larger neighbor Turkey), but that would just increase problems in the short term. If they truly renege on the agreement that released the emergency loans, I think they will have to leave the eurozone.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

It seems to me that your gripe should be more with your own country for not fighting hard enough against efforts to give more money to Greece, rather than whining about the economics and politics of Greece that put them into this position.

Ding ding ding, we have a winner. My grip *IS* with my countries, the US and Germany.

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Anyone else getting tired of people voicing their opinion about *others* politics ?

Are you retarded ?

-t

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Ding ding ding, we have a winner. My grip *IS* with my countries, the US and Germany.
-t

Retarded? Despite all of your attacks, I don't think so. I just don't think you quite realize how much of your whining is directed at other countries (in this case, Greece). Including whining about Canadians being interested in US politics.

I, personally, have no problems with people taking a strong interest in the politics of other nations. I just don't understand why you (and others here) do have problems with non-Americans taking a strong interest in US politics while at the same time you clearly take a strong interest in the politics of other nations.

[mattyb]

Interesting that one could change some of the countries for some of the US States in this thread and it would still make perfect sense.

BTW, my personal opinion is that if you let someone join a club, which has certain rules, you then either have to abide by said rules, even if the member is mis-behaving, or else kick them out. The trouble is, the impacts of kicking said member out of this exclusive club are frightening.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Retarded?

Yes.

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Despite all of your attacks, I don't think so. I just don't think you quite realize how much of your whining is directed at other countries (in this case, Greece). Including whining about Canadians being interested in US politics.

Again, WTF are you talking about ?
My original post said:

Originally Posted by turtle777

Stupid-ass Germans and Europeans are still throwing good money after bad.

Where do I say anything directly about Greece ?

I also said:

Originally Posted by turtle777

Let them go f*cking broke.

Who are the countries that are in a position to do so ?
Exactly. This is also NOT directed at Greece.

Also, btw, minor detail, the whole outrage was caused by Greeks demanding money from Europe, while portraying Germans and our Chancellor as Nazis. I would have NO quarrels about Canadians scorning anything related to the US if Canada was the object of similar diffamation.

What you Canucks can't stop is commenting about INTERNAL US politics. And that's what me and many others around here are getting tired to read about.

-t

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

Interesting that one could change some of the countries for some of the US States in this thread and it would still make perfect sense.

BTW, my personal opinion is that if you let someone join a club, which has certain rules, you then either have to abide by said rules, even if the member is mis-behaving, or else kick them out. The trouble is, the impacts of kicking said member out of this exclusive club are frightening.

You are absolutely right.

Some US States with disastrous finances (California, NY, Illinois) are in a similar position as Greece, Spain and Italy. Huge debts, huge burdens from promises of future pensions etc. They also can't just print money, only the Federal Government / Reserve can do so.
Ultimately, the discussion is going happen that some States need Federal bailouts, and the prudent States are going to say "WTF - go to hell".

-t

[Athens]

I can't find any solid numbers on how much interest Greece is paying on its debt. I have found claims as high as 25%. Any one know for sure? Google isn't being much help. But it sounds like a major part of the problem for Greece is the interest rates on its current debt making it 10x

[mduell]

Originally Posted by P 

Yes, this is the real problem, and the one I haven't heard a solution to. In effect, they can do so by cutting down on defense (Greece spends a disproportionate percentage of its GDP on defense in an attempt to keep up with its much larger neighbor Turkey), but that would just increase problems in the short term. If they truly renege on the agreement that released the emergency loans, I think they will have to leave the eurozone.

Leaving the eurozone under these conditions is going to be difficult. Even just the logistics of printing drachmas and taking everyones Euros one weekend is a monumental task to coordinate.

Originally Posted by Athens 

I can't find any solid numbers on how much interest Greece is paying on its debt. I have found claims as high as 25%. Any one know for sure? Google isn't being much help. But it sounds like a major part of the problem for Greece is the interest rates on its current debt making it 10x

They haven't publicly sold debt in years, it's all ECB/IMF/EU. The short term (~1 yr) rates on the secondary market are in the hundreds of percent (300% last time I looked).

[mduell]

Norway's Sovereign Wealth fund, 2 years ago: Norway, which has amassed the world’s second-biggest sovereign wealth fund, says Greece won’t default on its debts. The Nordic nation’s $450 billion Government Pension Fund Global has stocked up on Greek debt, as well as bonds of Spain, Italy and Portugal. Finance Minister Sigbjoern Johnsen says he backs the strategy, which contributed to a 3.4 percent loss on European fixed income in the second quarter, compared with gains on bonds in Asia and the Americas. Norway says its long-term perspective will protect it from losses. “One could say we are investing for infinity,” Johnsen said."

Norway last Friday: Norway’s sovereign wealth fund sold all its Irish and Portuguese government bonds after rejecting the Greek debt swap and warned that Europe faces considerable challenges.

Infinity, or two years in modern European time.

[P]

They can afford to lose it...

Note that Norway is not even in the EU, and is already involved in rescuing Iceland. They have no obligations to save anyone else. This was just a fund manager betting that they'd make money betting one way and then changing their mind.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

The IMF is funded by our tax dollars, the US funds 17% of the IMF, Canada about 3%.

Well, United States has nearly 10x more people than Canada. You could argue that the U.S. doesn't pay enough into the IMF relative to its population.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Some US States with disastrous finances (California, NY, Illinois) are in a similar position as Greece, Spain and Italy.

I'd have to disagree. Even the worst of the U.S. states do not compare to Greece, Spain, or Italy. California's debt to GDP ratio is only 7.3%. Greece's debt to GDP ratio is 165%, and that's after they've been forgiven over 50% of their debt.

[turtle777]

Uhm, yeah, California is in great shape.

CalPERS has over $500 billion in unfunded liabilities
CalSTRS has over $58 billion in unfunded liabilities.
The UC system has $21 billion in unfunded liabilities.
LADWP has $11 billion in unfunded liabilities.
California has $62 billion in health care liabilities that are unfunded.

On top of that, they are chasing our the wealthy and the middle class by higher and higher taxes.

Real solid State.

-t

[P]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

I'd have to disagree. Even the worst of the U.S. states do not compare to Greece, Spain, or Italy. California's debt to GDP ratio is only 7.3%. Greece's debt to GDP ratio is 165%, and that's after they've been forgiven over 50% of their debt.

That depends on what you include in the state budget. In particular, in Europe the states run the national pension system, which is probably the biggest single contributor to the Greece budget crisis.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by mduell 

Leaving the eurozone under these conditions is going to be difficult. Even just the logistics of printing drachmas and taking everyones Euros one weekend is a monumental task to coordinate.



They haven't publicly sold debt in years, it's all ECB/IMF/EU. The short term (~1 yr) rates on the secondary market are in the hundreds of percent (300% last time I looked).

If the national debt is only 500 Billion and with a insane interest rate, would it not make more sense to buy up all the debt, charge a .5% + the borrowing rate of interest to provide the breathing room to pay off the debt. Europe Collectively could do that. The US on its own could do that.

[Hawkeye_a]

Would anyone here invest their income and resources in Greece?

If a publicly traded company announced investments in Greece, would any of you buy shares of that company?

I wouldn't.

IMO, southern Europe provides no products/services that can pay off that debt. Low productivity and high inflation.....the outcomes of socialistic-policies/welfare-states.

I think, If Germany/U.S. budge by giving them even more favorable terms, one could expect investors in those economies to pull out from fear of the 'poor investment'.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Athens 

If the national debt is only 500 Billion and with a insane interest rate, would it not make more sense to buy up all the debt, charge a .5% + the borrowing rate of interest to provide the breathing room to pay off the debt. Europe Collectively could do that. The US on its own could do that.

I don't understand your suggestion.

At this point, Greece runs a Budget deficit even if you completely back out ALL interest cost.
That means, they spend MORE on government services than they take in via taxes.

It really doesn't matter HOW you restructure the debt. Even if ALL the debt would be immediately discharged, they STILL would need money from the EU/IMF/ECB.

-t

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

Wow. Another thread devolves into more displays of Canukistani insecurity/xenophobia.

Some delicious irony here!

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Some delicious irony here!

REALLY!!!!! That was 5 days ago, why are you bringing that up again...

[turtle777]

Yeah, no comment.

-t

[Athens]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

I don't understand your suggestion.

At this point, Greece runs a Budget deficit even if you completely back out ALL interest cost.
That means, they spend MORE on government services than they take in via taxes.

It really doesn't matter HOW you restructure the debt. Even if ALL the debt would be immediately discharged, they STILL would need money from the EU/IMF/ECB.

-t

I thought the cuts made to programs and to the government work force brought its spending below its tax collection? It was the high interest of the debts that is still causing deficit spending.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Athens 

I thought the cuts made to programs and to the government work force brought its spending below its tax collection? It was the high interest of the debts that is still causing deficit spending.

No, they are well past that point. Greece is a failed State for multiple reasons. Which also means that they can (will) fail for multiple reasons.

-t