[Big Mac]

A friend wants some purchasing ideas for exterior IP security cameras. He's looking for either POE (Power Over Ethernet) or WIFI and doesn't want to deal with a lot of wiring or complex installations. He would like to not spend much more than $100 a camera if he can get any quality at that price range. Any recommendations?

[Phileas]

I looked into this recently and didn't find anything decent under $250. If you do, I'd be interested to learn more.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Any recommendations?

Yes. Quadruple the budget.

[Big Mac]

Thank you Doofy - yeah I suppose $100 is unrealistic for any quality solution. I found some options in that price range but I imagine they're not very good.

[andi*pandi]

You can buy fake cameras that are supposedly a deterrent, maybe they're cheaper.

[Big Mac]

Dummy cameras aren't going to work for this need. My friend had dummy cameras up and came to his car last week to see his passenger window bashed in. Strangely, though, nothing was taken out of his car including a brand new GPS he had just gotten that was sitting in a black case in the center console in plain sight.

What do you guys think of this model?

I wasn't thinking about it, but I guess this thread should be moved to the consumer electronics forum.

[Uncle Skeleton]

I am also looking for a good network camera at a reasonable price. But from what I've seen, I'm not impressed with anything that's out now. I'm going to wait out the technology for a while longer.

Your friend might want to reconsider though, what exactly a good camera will do for him? It's not going to stop his car from getting robbed, it's just going to let him watch it happen. Nearly all the network cameras have only about 640x480 resolution, and at a distance, that's going to be downright worthless for identifying the perpetrator. Unless the guilty party is going to be a friend or family member or something, having the crime on video is not going to do you any good. It would be valuable to identify unknown routes of entry... In my condo we spend a lot on cameras so that we can find out how people are getting in the building, and telling people who leave doors propped to stop doing that. But for something like a car robbery this information is neither unknown nor avoidable (unless it shows you that you're forgetting to lock the door). So maybe insurance is a better angle, or moving to a safer neighborhood.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

Nearly all the network cameras have only about 640x480 resolution

Actually, HD IP cams are relatively common now.

The main problem is cost. The higher end ones approach 4 digits $, although some lower end ones like some from Vivotek are sub $400. Vivotek is very picky in its browser support though, and doesn't support OS X.

Y-cam supposedly has excellent OS X support, but currently they don't support HD. However, I'm waiting for the HD model from them, because they've unofficially said an HD model will appear sometime in 2011.



P.S. I am currently using an indoor IP camera outdoors. It's partially protected by a ledge, but otherwise is exposed to the elements. It's the Lorex LNE1001 and it's managed to survive the winter so far and is going strong. It cost about $110. However it is a 640x480 model, and has lousy night vision.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Actually, HD IP cams are relatively common now.

The main problem is cost. The higher end ones approach 4 digits $, although some lower end ones like some from Vivotek are sub $400. Vivotek is very picky in its browser support though, and doesn't support OS X.

Y-cam supposedly has excellent OS X support, but currently they don't support HD. However, I'm waiting for the HD model from them, because they've unofficially said an HD model will appear sometime in 2011.

Thanks, good info for those of us who are shopping.

P.S. I am currently using an indoor IP camera outdoors. It's partially protected by a ledge, but otherwise is exposed to the elements. It's the Lorex LNE1001 and it's managed to survive the winter so far and is going strong. It cost about $110. However it is a 640x480 model, and has lousy night vision.

So what is your purpose for the camera, security? Based on your captured footage, what can you accomplish with it? Positive ID? Deterrent? Know when to rush home and catch a thief in the act? I'm trying to get a layman's proper expectation, like if you describe an ipod touch as "good enough to read a blog post, not good enough to write one" kind of thing.

[brassplayersrock²]

A little on the higher price side than you were asking,

Costco - Lorex 8-Channel Surveillance System w/ 4 Color Cameras & 13.3" LED Monitor

or you could get the version with the bigger surveillance screen.

Costco - Lorex 8 Channel EDGE DVR & 21.5" Touch Screen LCD Monitor

You can also download an iPad app for the systems, so you can monitor from anywhere.

[Big Mac]

Thank you for the suggestions guys. The Lorex system you brought up looks like a good buy BPR. Considerably more than the price target, but you get a lot more. I'd love to see some reviews of it. I'm sort of surprised that it could be that cheap ($500) to get four relatively high resolution cameras, a 500 GB DVR and a 13" LCD.

Here's another possible choice I found. It's more expensive than my friend was looking for, but it seems well reviewed.

[residentEvil]

i've been happy with the products i've purchased from: Smarthome - Home Automation, X10, Remote Control, Lighting, Wireless Security

i've recommended and installed this system a few times; very happy users:

Night Owl Lion-4500 4 Channel H.264 Video Security Kit - Smarthome

the dvr unit is what is connected to the internet, not the individual cameras. it has pretty good iphone support.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

So what is your purpose for the camera, security? Based on your captured footage, what can you accomplish with it? Positive ID? Deterrent? Know when to rush home and catch a thief in the act? I'm trying to get a layman's proper expectation, like if you describe an ipod touch as "good enough to read a blog post, not good enough to write one" kind of thing.

Heh. The purpose of it is to catch a bunch of heinous criminals… the ones that are eating my flowers.

I'm not using it for security. I just want to capture some footage of the deer in the spring that chomp the tops off our tulips. I've seen the poor decapitated tulips, and the deer prints, but I haven't ever seen the actual deer. Visitors to the house (in-laws) etc. have seen the deer though.



My Lorex will be pretty bad for this though. The motion detection is totally useless as I've discovered. No matter how I set it, won't detect anything reliably. If I set it not to go off all the time, it detects pretty much nothing useful. If I set it to be sensitive, it detects all sorts of random stuff, which then makes it useless too, since I'd have to sift through hundreds of recordings to find anything. Plus the recording software doesn't work on a Mac. I could set it to record all the time of course, but Windows software sometimes hangs, which again makes it useless. So, based on my limited experience, I don't recommend Lorex unless you're going to use CCTV stuff (not IP), or if their DVR-based IP solutions are confirmed to work better than than their terrible PC implementation.

The Y-cam is supposed to have better motion detection, and has an option for on camera recording directly to SecureDigital media. If I stick a 32 GB card in there (in a new HD model) it should be good for many days worth of continuous recording, or more with record-on-alarm, without having to rely on the network. I can then browse over the network from either a Mac or Windows, but if I decide I want recording directly to the computer I can do that either on a Mac or on Windows too.

MicroSD card recording

A recent addition to the Y-cam range is microSD card recording. A large number of manufacturers are adopting edge-based video recording rather than centralised image storage.

The ease of setup and use of the recording functionality on the Y-cam Bullet is one of its best features. There are four different types of recordings which can be made; Video on alarm, snapshot on alarm, continuous video recording or snapshot recording. All of these can be used simultaneously to cover different events.

To start recording you enable the type of recording you require and set the relevant image and frequency settings. Once done, the camera will record. You can even monitor stored files directly from the web interface. To back data up there is also a function built into the camera which will systematically copy all stored footage to a remote FTP server so that should anything happen to the camera or data stored on the microSD card, the captured footage is still secure.

From a usability point of view things really couldn’t be simpler. With support for microSD cards up to 8GB in size, the Bullet can replace centralized video recording servers or act as a backup if network recorders are disconnected. We really like the simplicity of the SD recording facility as it will enable quicker system set up for installers and potentially cheaper systems for end users.

I cannot personally confirm that the Y-cam stuff works, but I'm willing to drop $500 to give it a shot, as long as it has HD, infrared for night vision and IR filter for daytime use, SD slot, motion detection, and Mac support.

If I can find a good deer-cam solution, then I may use the same system for real home security.

[brassplayersrock²]

Have you thought of using a HD web cam that can incorporate motion detection?

I'm not sure how close your house is to your tulips, but if you could get a housing for a web cam, and mount it towards your tulips with the web cam inside, with a wire run to a small computer near a window in your house; I'd think that might work.

Good luck.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

Have you thought of using a HD web cam that can incorporate motion detection?

I'm not sure how close your house is to your tulips, but if you could get a housing for a web cam, and mount it towards your tulips with the web cam inside, with a wire run to a small computer near a window in your house; I'd think that might work.

Good luck.

? I already have an IP web cam there, without a housing. Or are you talking about USB? USB won't work because the area is 3-digit feet away. (I have a big yard.)

[residentEvil]

for animals; check out the experts in hunting (trail cams)...

Cabela's: Trail Cameras

[Eug]

Originally Posted by residentEvil 

for animals; check out the experts in hunting (trail cams)...

Cabela's: Trail Cameras

This one looks interesting:

Reconyx Hyperfire HC 600

EDIT:

Would you recommend an HC800 or HC900 instead?

http://www.reconyx.com/page.php?id=138

[residentEvil]

Originally Posted by Eug 

This one looks interesting:

Reconyx Hyperfire HC 600

EDIT:

Would you recommend an HC800 or HC900 instead?

Compare Cameras | RECONYX, Inc.

that HC600 is pretty nice.

as for those two higher end ones, the only thing spec wise that really stands out, is that either one of those have lens options as well as better outdoor protection for the electronics (and temperature range) where the HC600 does not. and yes, i see some of the trigger options and frame rates are different. but the actual output quality is the same for all 3.

is it worth the extra money to you? i'd go with the HC600 unless you want lens flexibility as the other differences i don't see being worth it?

[residentEvil]

i would then look at some of those newer SD cards that have built in wireless...you may be able to get those images from the comfort of your own home and never have to go retrieve the card

[Eug]

So, instead of waiting for the Mac-compatible Y-cam HD camera, I ended up getting the Vivotek IP8332 instead.



The viewer software is not Mac compatible, but that's OK. After I initially configured it on a Windows 7, I now control it through my NAS unit, which is a Synology DiskStation DS211j, which natively supports the IP8332.



The Vivotek does have microSD support and a built in ftp server, but unfortunately the SDHC format maxes out at 32 GB, which isn't very much considering the camera supports 1280x800 video. Even with its native H.264 support, at decent quality settings 32 GB is eaten up in a few days. (To make 32 GB more useful you'd need to either use extremely low frame rates, or else drop down to 640x400.)

OTOH, I've allocated 200 GB to the surveillance directory on the NAS, which has excellent Mac support and works great with Safari. Furthermore, though SMB you can just mount its surveillance directory as a (read only) network drive, and given that I have a Gigabit network, the files feel as if they're local. I can do high speed navigation through the file with no lag and skim through a 30 minute clip in seconds. Which brings me to another point. The recorded files are standard Quicktime compatible H.264 mp4 files. I can drop them straight into iTunes with no modification. However, since they are 1280x800, they won't work on the iPhone. Fortunately, the NAS and camera also have a 1280x720 (standard 720p resolution) setting. With that setting the files are fully compatible with the iPhone (and iPad). Just drag and drop into iTunes and sync if you wanted to. You wouldn't do that very often, but since the files are compatible you can just use QT 7 to trim as necessary and resave. No need to export.

The main problem with the Synology NAS is that it only includes a licence for 1 security camera. Every new camera requires a new $50 licence. So, that effectively brings the cost of the Vivotek IP8332 up to US$400 each. This brings us back to to Doofy's comment. If you want a decent setup, quadruple that $100 budget for the camera. Even if you don't need an HD cam, you're still gonna need to spend ~$300 per camera for anything decent with outdoor weather sealing and PoE support.

[Headshot]

SO...the bottom line is, there is no camera out there that can simply beam via WiFi the footage of dogs crapping on my lawn, in an ongoing perpetual manner to one of the
gigantic internal drives in my MacPro in the back of the house for around $100?

I don't need HD or night vision or weatherproofing. Just one I can plug into an outlet and let it run-on and when I catch the crap I can run back with glee to see who to
throw it back at on my block.

Hope someone comes up with an affordable solution for this! $300 is not on my plate to spend for this right now!

[Headshot]

Amazon.com: D-Link Systems DCS-932L mydlink-Enabled Wireless N Day/Night Home Network Camera: Camera & Photo

Looks promising! Only question to investigate is, does the bundled recording software run in OSX?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Actually, HD IP cams are relatively common now.

The main problem is cost. The higher end ones approach 4 digits $, although some lower end ones like some from Vivotek are sub $400. Vivotek is very picky in its browser support though, and doesn't support OS X.

Update.

For motion JPEG video streaming, video from the Vivotek IP8332 works fine in Safari. Always has.

Initially when I got the IP camera, its web-based config and viewer utility didn't seem to work consistently in Safari. However, now in Lion 10.7.3, it seems to work fine in Safari (although Vivotek doesn't officially support it), at least for the few times I tried it.

Also, rtsp streaming does work, with H.264 streams. On windows if I type in rtsp:// into a browser (including Safari) I get an error, but on the Mac, it automatically launches Quicktime. Then it asks for the account name and password and after I enter those, the H.264 streaming works fine.

I haven't tested audio yet though. I don't have a microphone hooked up to my IP8332. However, I'm looking for another indoor camera, and am considering the just-released wide dynamic range 1280x800 Vivotek FD8135H, which has a built-in microphone. It supports both AAC and G.771 (and GSM-AMR) audio, so I'm hoping the audio will work through Quicktime. 1280x800 is the exact size of my MacBook Pro. No need to wait for the much more expensive Y-cam Mac support, esp. since Y-cam has been very slow in releasing HD models.

The only drawback is that there is no native support for rtsp streaming on the iPhone or iPad. MJPEG streaming works fine, but without audio.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Did you catch your deer?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

Did you catch your deer?

Indeed I did.

Scarborough Bluffs Deer on Vimeo

P.S. I found that the motion detection wasn't great on this either, so I just set the NAS to record all the time. If I see evidence of tracks or damage the next day, or get a sighting report from the neighbour, then I look through some of the video recorded by the NAS. Luckily, the video is recorded as QT compatible H.264 files, so I can scrub through them very quickly in Quicktime Player, directly over the network without otherwise downloading them from the NAS. It takes seconds to scrub through a half hour of video over the network, despite the fact that with my video settings, each file is around 0.4 to 0.5 GB.

P.P.S. Here is an evil racoon.

Evil raccoon on Vimeo