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brokenjago · Nov 9, 2005, 11:48 PM

Originally Posted by Journalist

Okay fair enough I made a mistake. The lines appear horizontally, rather than vertically and my hyphen's in the wrong place, but I have yet to get a response to the question. Do the lines appear on every new Powerbook 15" or is it a batch issue? I seem to get more feeback on grammar in this discussion than anything else.

Also the fact that you "promptly dismiss any and all other logical points" I made in my post suggests you believed them logical until that point. It supports my growing belief that your post attempts to discredit a valid concern. I challenge you to indicate otherwise.

You forgot a comma or two. ("Okay, fair enough, I made a mistake.") "hyphen's"? Should be hyphens. Also, I do believe (not 100% sure) it should be "...I have yet to recieve..." not "...I have yet to get..."

"you "promptly dismiss any and all other logical points" I made" should be "you "promptly dismiss any and all other logical points" I make"

When will these kids learn.

As to this:

Originally Posted by Journalist

It supports my growing belief that your post attempts to discredit a valid concern. I challenge you to indicate otherwise.

Of course I'm trying to discredit a valid concern. The way most people do that is by drawing attention away from the subject matter by instead focusing on irrelevant personal issues, such as intelligence, weight, ability to spell, etc.

(Again - for the humor impared. Joke. Ha-ha. Not serious.)

Now, let's move on to the serious part of the post. As for a valid answer to your valid question, the horizontal lines are an issue across the entire line - not just a batch. Or so I've heard. I'm not particularly sure.

And John, I'm only the "other guy"? I was just trying to flame someone. You hurt my feelings YOU ****ING WHORE

.
(JOKING)

John123 · Nov 10, 2005, 12:18 AM

Originally Posted by brokenjago

And John, I'm only the "other guy"? I was just trying to flame someone. You hurt my feelings YOU ****ING WHORE

.
(JOKING)

LOL...thanks for keeping me laughing....

mrmister · Nov 10, 2005, 12:54 AM

"LOL -- and now I'm a covert Apple spy? Is that what you're implying? That's funny."

No, I'm not implying that--that would be stupid.

"I rebutt the importance of the complaints to send a signal to possible buyers that others (A) can see the lines (so they exist) and (B) do not find them to be problematic."

Right, but shouldn't that stop at your own experience? We all *know* you don't mind them.

"Not all buyers are in the immediate proximity of an Apple Store. Many will order a laptop sight unseen from an online e-tailer."

Aren't these exactly the people who, if they choose to read Mac forums, should get to read all the information possible about screen aberrations or defects, including a clear accounting of how owners feel? Isn't this Internet 101?

"If you have the right to whine, I have the right prosetylize. Preach. Profess. Pontificate. Pick your p-verb of choice...that's my the privilege of free speech."

You certainly do; I never said otherwise. I take issue with your broad and specious definition of "whining", but that's hardly news.

"The funny thing, mrmister, is that if you hadn't started this by labeling other users in this thread as "apologists," I doubt I ever would have engaged this heavily in the first place."

Reread: I specifically said that these forums are lousy with apologists, which they are. I never specifically called out anyone in this thread.

brokenjago · Nov 10, 2005, 12:57 AM

Let's just all get gay with each other and call it a night.

mrmister · Nov 10, 2005, 01:06 AM

The sound you hear is the discourse striking a new low. Hooray for homophobic rejoinders!

mrmister · Nov 10, 2005, 01:09 AM

"Okay fair enough I made a mistake. The lines appear horizontally, rather than vertically and my hyphen's in the wrong place, but I have yet to get a response to the question. Do the lines appear on every new Powerbook 15" or is it a batch issue? I seem to get more feeback on grammar in this discussion than anything else."

Sorry about that--the kids ain't right in here.

From everything I've seen on a number of forums, it appears to be all 15" PowerBooks. If anyone has some evidence of a new 15" PowerBook that is not affected, please post.

brokenjago · Nov 10, 2005, 01:12 AM

Homophobic?

What? I said nothing homophobic at all. I said that we should get gay with each other. I didn't say "let's get gay like all those fags who should be burned at the stake for having sex with other men." I have no problem with gay men or women, whatsoever. It was intended as a joke. Why is it that every time I mention anything that has to do with homosexuality that I'm automatically branded as a homophobe? Jesus.

brokenjago · Nov 10, 2005, 01:13 AM

I might add that I'd already answered his question in my post above.

mrmister · Nov 10, 2005, 01:54 AM

"Why is it that every time I mention anything that has to do with homosexuality that I'm automatically branded as a homophobe?"

Exactly. Understanding what comes out of your mouth/keyboard will probably be the first step to not getting branded this way. Good luck with that.

brokenjago · Nov 10, 2005, 02:01 AM

Okay...

I don't even know why I'm arguing this point. There is no point. Feel free to think whatever you want about me, and have a wonderful day

.

John123 · Nov 10, 2005, 02:11 AM

Originally Posted by mrmister

Sorry about that--the kids ain't right in here.

Once again, another invective-laden post...

azbigfella · Nov 10, 2005, 03:17 AM

Originally Posted by Fusion

No, they all have them. The people that posted in the poll that say they do not have them either have the 17" or they just can't see them, but they are present on ALL new 15" PowerBooks.

Fusion, Pete, Zeno,
My 15" new PBook does not have the lines -- I can now definitely say that. I was begining to wonder if maybe my eye wasn't good enough to see it, but I followed the advice to create full screen grey and white images with Graphic Converter -- in fact, I created a whole set of 1440x960 images filled with various shades of grey and plain white, put them in a folder, and then did a full-screen slide show to flip through the different colors. I also put the same images onto my G5 and did the same thing on my 20" Apple Cinema Display and 23" HD Display, and and compared them side by side. There are no problems with my display.

On another issue I reported in other threads (which is what brought me into these forums in the first place), I installed 2G of Value RAM from Kingston which were just crap and I had no end to various freezes and panics -- I thought I had a defective logic board or other serious hw problems. But I replaced them with regular Kingston retail chips (on sale on their site for $116 USD with free shipping) and now my PowerBook has been purring flawlessly for the past 16 hours despite some pretty severe memory loads and diagnostics.

For those of you that are truly having the display issues, I'm really feel for you and I hope Apple makes things right with minimal trouble and inconvenience. However for those of you that are reading through these threads and wondering if your PowerBook is affected, well, it probably isn't -- I think you'll know. And the fact is, there are people out there (me, as well as others that have responded in these threads) that have displays that are fine, not to mention all the people that haven't even explored these forums because their laptops are operating fine (the only reason I came to the troubleshooting forum was to research what turned out to be my inferior memory-induced issues).

Good luck,
Azbigfella

LoRdKaLiBaH · Nov 10, 2005, 03:34 AM

Originally Posted by azbigfella

Fusion, Pete, Zeno,
My 15" new PBook does not have the lines -- I can now definitely say that. I was begining to wonder if maybe my eye wasn't good enough to see it, but I followed the advice to create full screen grey and white images with Graphic Converter -- in fact, I created a whole set of 1440x960 images filled with various shades of grey and plain white, put them in a folder, and then did a full-screen slide show to flip through the different colors. I also put the same images onto my G5 and did the same thing on my 20" Apple Cinema Display and 23" HD Display, and and compared them side by side. There are no problems with my display.

On another issue I reported in other threads (which is what brought me into these forums in the first place), I installed 2G of Value RAM from Kingston which were just crap and I had no end to various freezes and panics -- I thought I had a defective logic board or other serious hw problems. But I replaced them with regular Kingston retail chips (on sale on their site for $116 USD with free shipping) and now my PowerBook has been purring flawlessly for the past 16 hours despite some pretty severe memory loads and diagnostics.

For those of you that are truly having the display issues, I'm really feel for you and I hope Apple makes things right with minimal trouble and inconvenience. However for those of you that are reading through these threads and wondering if your PowerBook is affected, well, it probably isn't -- I think you'll know. And the fact is, there are people out there (me, as well as others that have responded in these threads) that have displays that are fine, not to mention all the people that haven't even explored these forums because their laptops are operating fine (the only reason I came to the troubleshooting forum was to research what turned out to be my inferior memory-induced issues).

Good luck,
Azbigfella

Can you or someone else that has the grey and white images rar them and up them someplace?
Or email them

Kalibah at gmail.com

I'd like to test my new pb

azbigfella · Nov 10, 2005, 03:49 AM

Originally Posted by LoRdKaLiBaH

Can you or someone else that has the grey and white images rar them and up them someplace?
Or email them
Kalibah at gmail.com
I'd like to test my new pb

It would be just as easy to create them yourself -- go into a graphics program (I used Graphic Converter), create a new 1440x960 image, select all or fill entire image with grey or white, and save. Since I was unclear as to which shade of grey would show it best, I created 4 different PICT files with different shades of grey, all taken from the GC standard color palette. Then using the GC slide show option on full screen display, I displayed them in sequence and inspected/compared the result before moving on to the next one.

Hope that helps,
AZB

wildcard · Nov 10, 2005, 09:55 AM

This is odd...

I used PixelCheck to test the display on my 15" DL Powerbook and showed no evidence of the lines for a solid red, blue, green, black, or white screen.

I only really notice the lines when looking at photographs and images...people's skin looks like it's composed of a set of thin cold cuts stacked on top of each other rather than a smooth uniform appearance. It's tolerable/or non-existent for me looking at anything else.

The reasons I wonder if this is a firmware issue are:

*The new 17's don't have this problem. The 17's screens are running at a much more common resolution compared to the 1440x960, which I believe is unique to this laptop.

*ATI's website lists horizontal banding as a possible culprit of a improper set refresh rate or possible issue with the firmware/BIOS of the video card (found this by looking for "DVI Flat Panel" in their frequently asked questions section)

*I used DisplayConfigX (http://www.3dexpress.de/)and it's reporting that the refresh rate of 1440x960 is around 50 Mhz, not 60. I could not manually force the rate higher and test it successfully due to that resolution not being available to install on an unregistered copy. In the testing mode, the screen went completely black on full-screen mode.

*I don't believe it's a driver issue as the lines are evident outside of Tiger (like the Apple hardware test or on the installer of a Linux LiveCD, for example). I would think that the Hardware test or anything outside of the OS would be running from the firmware/BIOS on the ATI card until an operating system and its accompanying drivers were loaded.

cucswiz · Nov 10, 2005, 11:52 AM

if any of you who have a 15" are curious if they have the problem or not... check out this:

http://www.crankycat.com/orange.jpg

move the window around in your screen (it seems most people can see the blatant issue in the upper lefthand corner). This is a pretty obvious problem I think. Original posting of this was in the discussion forums on the apple forums:

http://discussions.info.apple.com/[email protected]

wildcard · 01:33 PM

http://discussions.info.apple.com/[email protected]

It is becoming apparent that those having the lines have different monitor timings that those that do not...

Fusion · Nov 10, 2005, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by azbigfella

Fusion, Pete, Zeno,
My 15" new PBook does not have the lines -- I can now definitely say that. I was begining to wonder if maybe my eye wasn't good enough to see it, but I followed the advice to create full screen grey and white images with Graphic Converter -- in fact, I created a whole set of 1440x960 images filled with various shades of grey and plain white, put them in a folder, and then did a full-screen slide show to flip through the different colors. I also put the same images onto my G5 and did the same thing on my 20" Apple Cinema Display and 23" HD Display, and and compared them side by side. There are no problems with my display.

On another issue I reported in other threads (which is what brought me into these forums in the first place), I installed 2G of Value RAM from Kingston which were just crap and I had no end to various freezes and panics -- I thought I had a defective logic board or other serious hw problems. But I replaced them with regular Kingston retail chips (on sale on their site for $116 USD with free shipping) and now my PowerBook has been purring flawlessly for the past 16 hours despite some pretty severe memory loads and diagnostics.

For those of you that are truly having the display issues, I'm really feel for you and I hope Apple makes things right with minimal trouble and inconvenience. However for those of you that are reading through these threads and wondering if your PowerBook is affected, well, it probably isn't -- I think you'll know. And the fact is, there are people out there (me, as well as others that have responded in these threads) that have displays that are fine, not to mention all the people that haven't even explored these forums because their laptops are operating fine (the only reason I came to the troubleshooting forum was to research what turned out to be my inferior memory-induced issues).

Good luck,
Azbigfella

You're going to need to post a picture before we believe you. My wife can't see the lines on my screen either, but that doesn't mean that they are not there. If this were true, you'd be the first and only person to have one without it. My guess is that you have them, and maybe they are just a little more subtle... but can you post a photo?

azbigfella · 11:24 PM

Originally Posted by Fusion

You're going to need to post a picture before we believe you. My wife can't see the lines on my screen either, but that doesn't mean that they are not there. If this were true, you'd be the first and only person to have one without it. My guess is that you have them, and maybe they are just a little more subtle... but can you post a photo?

[link deleted]

If you can find the lines in the display, especially in the macro 10x zoom shots, then maybe I have them, in that case I'm thankful for my lack of perception and blissful ignorance. Also, I took a picture of the "About this Mac" window in case you don't believe me that these are actual photos of my PowerBook, plus you can also reference some of the details in the other photos like the frame for the display and such.
AZB

wildcard · Nov 10, 2005, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by azbigfella

Here:

http://homepage.mac.com/jacksonmacs/...toAlbum49.html

If you can find the lines in the display, especially in the macro 10x zoom shots, then maybe I have them, in that case I'm thankful for my lack of perception and blissful ignorance. Also, I took a picture of the "About this Mac" window in case you don't believe me that these are actual photos of my PowerBook, plus you can also reference some of the details in the other photos like the frame for the display and such.
AZB

I'm sorry about the rough responses you've gotten regarding having to 'prove' that your screen doesn't have lines...

That being said, I can clearly see them on image-3BBE10DD521111DA and Image-3BBDB0BC521111DA, while viewing said pics on a CRT on a completely different PC.

azbigfella · Nov 10, 2005, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by wildcard

I'm sorry about the rough responses you've gotten regarding having to 'prove' that your screen doesn't have lines...

That being said, I can clearly see them on image-3BBE10DD521111DA and Image-3BBDB0BC521111DA, while viewing said pics on a CRT on a completely different PC.

Are you referring to the diagonal reflections? Those aren't visible in anything but those particular photos/angles/zoom as well as one or two others -- what I don't see are HORIZONTAL lines. Maybe I need to view these on a CRT as I'm only looking at them on LCD screens (Apple Cinema 20" and 23" Apple HD). Image-3BBD71CE521111DA and Image-3BBD8F9D521111DA (same angle with zoom) are dead-on pictures of the screen without reflections.

wildcard · Nov 10, 2005, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by azbigfella

Are you referring to the diagonal reflections? Those aren't visible in anything but those particular photos/angles/zoom as well as one or two others -- what I don't see are HORIZONTAL lines. Maybe I need to view these on a CRT as I'm only looking at them on LCD screens (Apple Cinema 20" and 23" Apple HD). Image-3BBD71CE521111DA and Image-3BBD8F9D521111DA (same angle with zoom) are dead-on pictures of the screen without reflections.

Definitely not the diagonal reflections, though I see those as well.

wildcard · Nov 10, 2005, 02:39 PM

Here guys-look at the CORRECT link....

http://discussions.info.apple.com/[email protected]

wildcard · Nov 10, 2005, 02:40 PM

Link was so relevant I double-posted it

pete · Nov 10, 2005, 03:11 PM

Ok, so I must really be blind because besides the reflections I'm unable to see anything abnormal. If this is an example of horizontal lines then I don't mind them at all and will order a powerbook as soon as Amazon gets them in stock again. This is about what I saw at the Apple Store today in NYC too....

iomatic · Nov 10, 2005, 03:42 PM

So, it sounds like it could be a software issue; people who are having problem *could* get this fixed, and people (like me) who slightly have this problem will get it improved!

Fusion · Nov 10, 2005, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by azbigfella

Here:

http://homepage.mac.com/jacksonmacs/...toAlbum49.html

If you can find the lines in the display, especially in the macro 10x zoom shots, then maybe I have them, in that case I'm thankful for my lack of perception and blissful ignorance. Also, I took a picture of the "About this Mac" window in case you don't believe me that these are actual photos of my PowerBook, plus you can also reference some of the details in the other photos like the frame for the display and such.
AZB

Yep, you certainly do have them.

Also, now do you find it funny how much some of these people are saying that it affects their work?

azbigfella · 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by pete

Ok, so I must really be blind because besides the reflections I'm unable to see anything abnormal. If this is an example of horizontal lines then I don't mind them at all and will order a powerbook as soon as Amazon gets them in stock again. This is about what I saw at the Apple Store today in NYC too....

Thanks Pete, I'm glad I'm not the only one that doesn't see horizontal lines in those pictures.
AZB

cucswiz · Nov 10, 2005, 08:40 PM

hey guys, not sure if you know this, but there were some people over at the apple discussion thread that say that this problem has been noted and it seems like the apple technicians seem to think its a video card problem... not sure, but thats what they are saying:

http://discussions.info.apple.com/[email protected]

At least they recognize it... seems like a good sign - i might return mine for a replacement afterall

jamil5454 · Nov 10, 2005, 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by brokenjago

recieve

I before E except after C.

mrmister · Nov 11, 2005, 01:44 AM

"Once again, another invective-laden post..."

Honey, you'll know it if I start using invectives.

As more information comes in the plot thickens--if it was a videocard issue that might be a blessing in disguise, because they might be able to roll out a fix in a simple update.

John123 · Nov 11, 2005, 05:34 AM

Originally Posted by mrmister

"Once again, another invective-laden post..."

Honey, you'll know it if I start using invectives.

Coating it in pretty language doesn't make you any less condescending. More gutless and unable or unwilling to express things in a straightforward manner, perhaps...

brokenjago · Nov 11, 2005, 01:12 PM

Jesus Christ Almighty.

You'd think people would stop arguing and just get on with their lives!

wildcard · Nov 11, 2005, 02:28 PM

This is the best illustration of what a normal screen looks like (the kid on the left) vs what a lot of new 15" DL Powerbook owners are seeing (the kid on the right). Best viewed on a CRT or other LCD (not on the 15" DL Powerbook screen).

NOTE: I didn't see if this was linked elsewhere on the discussion thread-please remove/delete if it was.

pete · Nov 11, 2005, 06:23 PM

I'm in the Apple store again to check out the powerbooks. I can see the lines now on all of them. It's not at first noticeable but when you play around for longer you can see the lines in, for example, the system preferences where you choose desktop background (the lines are clearly visible in the thumbnails there) and, of course, on the desktop itself. . I don't know how I could have missed them because now they seem so visible. Not really sure what to do with my order with amazon.....damn.

wildcard · Nov 11, 2005, 06:26 PM

When I went to the Apple Store in my area, I saw the lines on ALL the new models...12", 15", and 17" alike. I just think the unique native resolution of the 15" makes the lines more noticable.

SMacSteve · Nov 11, 2005, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by wildcard

When I went to the Apple Store in my area, I saw the lines on ALL the new models...12", 15", and 17" alike. I just think the unique native resolution of the 15" makes the lines more noticable.

Funny the 12" model hasn't changed at all! How could the lines be on that one too and no one ever complained about them before the new 15 & 17" PowerBooks were released?!

wildcard · Nov 11, 2005, 06:41 PM

It's entirely possible that Apple switched screen manufacturers,even for the 12" model that didn't change resolutions. Any newly made 12"s might have a different screen than older models. Notice that noone complained about lines on the 17" either.

tooki · Nov 11, 2005, 07:03 PM

Oy gevalt. Calm down, kids.

tooki

bwatson009 · Nov 11, 2005, 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by tumblemonster

I have a 1.25Ghz G4 Rev A powerbook. I just got my new Powerbook G4 15inch with the new high resolution display. Even before directly comparing the two displays, I noticed that the new PBs display has very noticable horizontal lines visible between rows of pixels. Comparing it to the old display, I find the older display, while lower resolution, to be of much higher quality and sharpness. It looks as though the pixels in the new display are smaller and less densly packed. I am a graphic designer and video editor, and I find the horizontal lines incredibly distracting. They very visibly effect the quality of the image, especially when viewing Photographs and video. Has anyone else noticed this, or is there something wrong with my display?

Thanks

-Jason

Ok, well i got my replacement 15" today for the horrid 17" (1680 x 1050) I returned. Naturally I have the lines, but i have to say they don't bother me in the least, even if i try to be annoyed with them. This display is just SO dramatically better than the 17 I sent back that i am over it. I mean, what are my choices now, the 12"? (no offense to 12" owners intended, they rock too) After calibration ("expert mode") they are barely, barely noticeable. I do see a bit of the artifact effect in the upper left hand corner area that folks have mentioned, but I really have to try to make it happen, which places it in the "i don't have time to care" category of "defects". Now, before i get uber-flamed, please just let me state that i am here merely with the intent of sharing my OPINION about MY powerbook. Things have been a bit touchy around here lately, so it just had to be said...

This is the 4th aluminum powerbook i've had, and i have to say that this is the closest it's been to being right. None have been as "perfect" as my 1ghz Tibook, but this is close, i'd give it a 99.8%. Screen closes perfectly tight. No cross-threaded screws poking out the side, no screwy trackpad...

I call it: hi-res bliss...

pete · Nov 12, 2005, 07:24 AM

I agree that it is a relatively minor issue. However, unlike smaller hardware glitches, it's an issue we have to live with every time we use the computer. I think I can do it, but I would like to know if this is a defect or if it's the inherent quality of this particular LCD. It doesn't make sense that the 17 wouldn't have this and the 15would unless it's bad batch or something. Then again, there has never been any real consistency across the powerbook line in terms of LCD brightness and quality

The problem is that once you've seen it, it's easy to see it everywhere and it become annoying...

pete · Nov 12, 2005, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by pete

I agree that it is a relatively minor issue. However, unlike smaller hardware glitches, it's an issue we have to live with every time we use the computer. I think I can do it, but I would like to know if this is a defect or if it's the inherent quality of this particular LCD. It doesn't make sense that the 17 wouldn't have this and the 15would unless it's bad batch or something. Then again, there has never been any real consistency across the powerbook line in terms of LCD brightness and quality

The problem is that once you've seen it, it's easy to see it everywhere and it become annoying...

Update. I cancelled my amazon order. Not that I don't think I could get used to it, but because I don't think I should have to 'get used to' anything given how much these things cost. I really want to stop thinking about this and just have a powerbook, but the only option now is to try to get an older model. I'll wait until Monday to see if there's any news on this issue or if anybody figures out what exactly is going on. If I knew that Apple will fix the issue, I would wait a little longer, but it is possible that Apple doesn't consider this an issue at all.

azbigfella · Nov 12, 2005, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by pete

Update. I cancelled my amazon order. Not that I don't think I could get used to it, but because I don't think I should have to 'get used to' anything given how much these things cost. I really want to stop thinking about this and just have a powerbook, but the only option now is to try to get an older model. I'll wait until Monday to see if there's any news on this issue or if anybody figures out what exactly is going on. If I knew that Apple will fix the issue, I would wait a little longer, but it is possible that Apple doesn't consider this an issue at all.

Pete --
If you're interested in a previous version, you can always check out
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPL....0.8.7.1.1.1.1
That's for the discontinued (not refurb'd) models, which you can save 7-18% -- right now they have a 15" 1.67 for $1899 and a 15" 1.5 for $1699 (and maybe you can have it shipped to the DE Apple Store for pick up for additional savings). If you're really adventurous, you can save even more on the refurb's (like a third).

On another note, we've gotten all worked up in one way or another over this display issue -- as well we should for the most part -- but maybe this will help put things in perspective: I spent the better part of yesterday on a work project I have due later this month (I've been on holiday) and most of that was done on a Dell laptop -- a nice Dell, but a Dell. Then last night when I was at Best Buy to look for cases for my PBook, and I spent some time diddling around with the PC laptops there as well. Spend a few minutes or a few hours on a PC -- even a so-called nice ones -- and you pretty quickly remember why we like Macs! So we can get a model in front of us we like, whether it be a 12", 15" new, 15" old, mini, LC II, Newton, G5, whatever, but at least we can have a Mac product. There are a lot of things not perfect (okay, wrong) with Apple, but I'm so glad I'm not stuck with PC's.

Are you gellin'?
AZB

wildcard · Nov 12, 2005, 10:25 AM

While we're waiting from an official response from Apple, I've found that a custom calibration of 2.2 Gamma/D50 white point combined with the brightness set to half makes the lines less hard on my eyes. The lines are still there, but less glaringly obvious to me.

I wonder if all this could simply be fixed by Apple just going back to the original backlight used on the rev.A-D 15" Powerbooks.

wildcard · Nov 12, 2005, 03:47 PM

hmmm....

I notice an improvement in my lines after trying the old Apple standby of resetting the NVRAM and the PMU (I know the PMU controls some of the video functions like refresh rate). They're much less prominent even at Apple's default display settings.

I'm wondering how pyschosomatic the effects of this fix are...

pete · Nov 12, 2005, 04:22 PM

Wildcard,

Is there any way you could post pictures of your screen after your nvram reset? I'm sure a lot of people standing on the fence would appreciate it.

Thanks,

Pete

wildcard · 04:52 PM

Well, I can try, but my digicam isn't the best and I don't have anything like Photoshop to clean up the image....

Commands to reset NVRAM: shut down computer, then turn on computer while holding down Apple key, Option, O (the letter), and F. You'll go to an all white screen with a prompt that looks like 0 >

At the prompt, type: reset-nvram. Hit the Return key; you'll be back at a 0 > prompt.
At the prompt, type: reset-all. Hit the Return key; you'll be kicked out of open firmware and the laptop will reboot.

Commands to reset PMU: shut down computer, then turn on computer while holding down Apple key, Option, P and R. You'll hear the Apple "bong". Keep the keys held down until you hear another "bong", then release the keys. If, on entering the OS again, you're prompted to change your date/time, you'll know it worked as date-time is one of the things stored in the PMU. If it doesn't prompt you, you may have your Date-Time System preferences set to automatically get time from Apple's server.

Both PRAM and NVRAM resets are documented on Apple's websites as established troubleshooting steps for all sorts of issues, so these are definitely safe steps for anyone to try.

pete · Nov 12, 2005, 05:14 PM

thanks...

I know it's hard to quantify these kinds of things, but how much reduction in lines would you say that you have seen? And do yous still feel that there is a reduction?

Thanks again

wildcard · 05:37 PM

I would say that my screen is now on a par with the one 17" new PB I saw. The lines are stil visible, but not as prominent compared to any vertical lines.

Looking at the 'infamous' crankycat pictures, there's now a difference in how the kids appear to me. The lines are much more prominent on the kid on the right. Prior to this, the kids were nearly identical in terms of how the lines on them appeared.

EDIT: I've actually managed to get the crankycat images to move on a pixel-by-pixel basis by lucky use of the mouse. Lines are still there, as I can actually get the kid on the right lined up to where the lines are cancelled out. The kid on the left still has faint lines at this point

On other website images, the lines are definitely LESS prominent now.

pete · Nov 12, 2005, 06:14 PM

Hmm, that's good news. Of course no lines would be better, but doesn't this indicate that the problem might be resolved with firmware or software? What, exactly, is happening when you do a nvram reset?

thanks for posting. I feel schizophrenic about my powerbook purchase. I'm thinking maybe I should just order again from Amazon and, if the lines bother me too much, send it back and get a closeout model. Or maybe by that time there will be a fix. I became gun shy when I dealt with apple repairs continuously for one year with my first generation titanium and now I fear more than anything else a similar time and energy-consuming situation.

Please keep us posted with your experiences.