[CDS]

Im a graphics and Web apps developer and Ive been curious as to what Mac users seem to prefer..... IE is my choice, not because of my luv for Microsoft(couldnt be further from the truth), but just that it gives the best developer support for advanced Internet languages!....

Im Very interested in your View points....thank you for any and all responses!

[This message has been edited by CDS (edited 10-14-2000).]

[Sebastien]

I use IE because I think Netscape is too 'stupid' most times. A perfect example is: keeping the focus on the address bar instead of moving it to the main window page after entering an address. Hitting pgdn/up after entering an address results in the first/last entry in the history to be selected and displayed. Very infuriating (not to mention counter-productive!)

There's a bunch or other little 'quirks' like this that just drive me nuts about it, far more than IE (even with IE's own obvious bugs).

[rambo47]

IE5 all the way. I'm not in love with MS or anything, but Netscape just sucks! I'd love to use Navigator/Communicator with the all-in-one design, but it's just too slow and unstable. The folks at Netscape have had their heads up their butts for so long, I can only conclude they must like the view.

As a side note, when I'm at my folks' house for Sunday dinner I have to use my Dad's Dell if I go online at all. Like now. Dad uses AOL (he's dead to me) but has Earthlink as a backup. When I sign onto Earthlink the default browser is Netscape. It's so darn slow I can't stand it! I just put IE on his computer without his even knowing.

------------------
-bo47

"There is no spoon."

[BigMark]

Well, once I tried IE 4.5 I moreorless stopped using Netscape. My main complaint with Netscape is that is SO slow in loading pages. It seems to spend ages preparing the layout of the document before showing it to you. And then, if you resize the window, the page goes blank and it then takes ages AGAIN to display the page.

IE 5
Pro's: fast to load pages/ interface more easily customisable and attractive/ supposedly more advanced in dealing with new HTML languages etc.
Cons: java engine environment still slow as hell and often quite flaky or prone to unexpectedly quit.

Netscape
Pros': An impression of greater stability esp. with Java.
Cons: Slow to load & display pages. Not as customisable as IE.

Netscape--give us a Corvette of browsers! Super fast, sleek, refined, highly polished, STABLE, bullet proof, solid as a rock.

[jog]

Explorer, since version 5. It displays anything I do in Dreamweaver (no, Netscape does NOT!), its fast, and there is a nice, customizable interface.

[This message has been edited by jog (edited 10-17-2000).]

I agree IE5.
and for a bit more information have a look at this
http://www.upsdell.com/BrowserNews/stat_des.htm

[CDS]

Hey guys....thanks for the great feedback....I really appreciate it, I dont often get to talk to Mac users and I feel its usefull to get some insights from you....Thanks!

[Thunderbird]

I will concurr with the sentiment thus far. I have been an IE user since version 4 (although my wife still uses Netcape since IE lacks multiuser capability.) IE for Macintosh is IMHO much better than the Windows version.

[bmedina]

For now I use IE 5. But as soon as Mozilla/NS6 is stable and fast enough to use all the time, I'll make the switch.

I don't care what y'all use for browsers (I use iCab, as it happens, as I refuse to touch either IE or Netscape out of principle), but I do care about one thing: Whatever you do, do not, I mean absolutely do NOT use nonstandard features. The latest browsers have the capabilities to do all sorts of things that aren't in the HTML standard. Avoid these features, for they are wrong. The Web depends on standards, and I'm sick of going to some flashy site that won't work because the developer wanted to use that shiny new feature in IE, even if it ain't standard.

[Cipher13]

Netscape 4.75. Easy.
I simply use IE5 when I want to save a page as a web archive. Thats all.

Cipher13

[Quadzmodo]

I use both, but Netscapes seems to be the best written browser to me. It doesn't crash half as much as I.E.5, but it lacks the nice interface. I hope Netscape 6 changes all that.

------------------
It's just my humble opinion.

[Quadzmodo]

I use both, but Netscapes seems to be the best written browser to me. It doesn't crash half as much as I.E.5, but it lacks the nice interface. I hope Netscape 6 changes all that.

------------------
It's just my humble opinion.

[blizzard]

IE crashes every five minutes, so nice interface or not, it's Netscape all the way for me. Stable as a '78 Roadmaster.

[WDL]

Netscape 4.6 - plain, simple, fast and stable.

WDL

[Buck_Naked]

Netscape 4.7 Very stable on my system G4/400-384 of ram. No problem with multiple windows. The few crashes I have had seem to happen at sites with poorly written java.....I think, not sure though.

Well, as aweb developper myself, I use both...
IE5 forced us to move all our pages in CSS (otherwise it displays all fonts 1 size bigger, only on the mac). But this is not necessary a bad thing.

For development, IE5 is MUCH better. Less bugs, resizing window redraws all teh lements better as well.

I always do the whole development using IE5. When it work, I test it using Netscape, find about 50 bugs, corerct them and then it's cool

However, I have loads of hope that Netscape6 will be as good. For the moment, I am really not convinced by their beta versions.

So, wait and see...

By the way, I can't wait to have iCab fully developped and out of the beta status
It will rock!

[stetsows]

I hate to say it, but I like IE 5 better than Netscape. First off Netscape seems to have stood still for nearly 4 years (I remember using a beta version of 4.0 back in 1997). MS has gotten the stability problems that plagued the first 4 versions under control. Plus cacheing and the fact that IE remembers my history even after I quit it are bonuses. Unfortunately I don't see NS 6 removing IE from the desktop anytime soon (I can't stand the new Netscape interface, though I think they will be able to overcome stability problems).

[Camali]

I've been using IE since 4.5 and I love it, but I just downloaded the public preview 3 of Netscape 6, and it beats IE 5 when opening pages.

I have to admit I never got any crashes with IE 5 on my Mac, but sometimes I would a get no response from my computer if I quit IE, and I had to force quit.

I love MS products, they work together, whereas Netscape 6 is a program by itself, but with OS X coming out, who knows I might switch from IE to Netscape.

Important thing is I like what IE, but I especially like what I see in Netscape 6, that matters.

[Sebastien]

Just to add to what I wrote above...

While IE is probably the best in features and standards compliance, it's definitively the worst for javascript implementation, or at least in behaviour compared to other browsers.

This hit me hard when I was helping my brother test his website, which makes fair use of javascript, and also using web filter programs such as Proxomition. There is major functionality loss with IE compared to Netscape.

So, while IE the best browser from a user point of view, it may not be so for web developers.

[suhail]

netscape for moi

I "like" IE better than Netscape - far better feature list - but IE is not stable for me (on more than one system, so I know it's not just a transient error). Netscape's cookie control and other lacks make it of little use. I use iCab as my main browser until the incomplete JavaScript implementation bites me, at which point I use IE for the minimum amount necessary (or Netscape if IE's scripting doesn't work right, as happens with some sites), then it's right back to iCab. When iCab gets it's JavaScript complete, it'll be my only browser. Reasonably fast, very controllable, and extremely stable.

[jeffhot]

for me, no one browser is completely satifactory. IE is what I use most often, but it has weaknesses. IE crashes my computer more than all other apps combined, firstly. Otherwise it's pretty good. I like how you can minimize everything to the side bar, but I wish that didn't take away the progress bar.

Netscape is much more stable, thankfully, so I do use it. I also like it's integration of email and web in one program, and therefore memory footprint. It's faster than switching between programs, but the mail app can only check one account. Fatal flaw for me. Too bad, 'cause it's free spell checker was nice.

I hate how OE needs word to be installed to have a spell check feature. I also hate how Macrosoft scammed hotmail access into OE exclusively. Web archiving that only is viewable in IE is a scam, too, but a good feature. They're geniuses, basically. If I didn't get all their great software for free, I'd hate them. The breadth of their integrated offerings is impossible competetion for smaller companies. But I digress...

As far as just browsers, I'm really hoping for iCab to pul through. So far it works pretty good, is solid, and has a tiny memory footprint. I also encourage their smiley face advocation of HTML strict. Serious web designers should consider it a litmus test of their skills. If you can't let iCab smile, you're not trying hard enough. I hope they steal IE' command-L highlighting the location bar instead of opening another window.

[mkuehn]

I used to be a Navigator-only guy, but then IE got good, and Navigator started to suck, so I switched. I don't like being assimilated by M$, but hey, their browser is the better of the (major) two, IMHO, and it supports web development goodies (CSS, etc.) more completely.

If Navigator can get its act together in v6 and if both browsers can agree to meet a set of standards so I can write code for the WWW instead of for two competing browsers, then I'll be a happy guy.

2 words: internet explorer.

like mkuehn, i too used to be a netscape die hard. then, while netscape was becoming bloatware, msie become much more usable with the most awesome interface i ever did see

msie also has more features that i find useful.

just my 2 cents worth.

0utr0x, t0ken.


[This message has been edited by t0ken (edited 12-05-2000).]

While IE may have many more features and looks better(after being customized) I have a cable modem and there is a considerable speed difference between the two. That's why I use Netscape.

I use NS4,7; It looks better. I know that IE5 supposed to support more staff, but I hate Microsoft, and use as little as I can its software. Afterall thatswhy I use Mac (to be as far as I can form Microsoft). I have'nt had any problems yet with my NS4,7 but when the NS6 comes, I deffenently upgrade. (Think different - that says it all)

[Richard Pinneau]

Well, the discussions here had convinced me I'd like to try Netscape 4.76 - and maybe 6.
But...
such hassles with downloads (the servers went to early service this Sunday?)...
I thought I see what inexpensive CD-ROM option Netscape had.
But...
repeated attempts to use the icon on the Netscape Products page gave message that the page did not exist. (despite restarts, etc)
This does not inspire confidence in a prospective customer.
Are you listening Netscape. MS is already waiting to gobble you up. You don't think you can afford a site that doesn't work do you?

[Visnaut]

I've already mentioned this in another thread, but as a web designer, as soon as NS6 goes final, that'll be my minimum requirement for NS users. From a developer's standpoint, NS 4.7.x sucks SO BAD.

Also, you're all entitled to your personal opinion, but I find the refusal to use MS products simply because they're MS products is a little bit of a stretch. I use what's best, period.

Peace out, y'all!

[Kevin J Moran]

IE5--is most advance browser out there (Win or Mac). When you program pages, and find out what CSS can do for you, most internet programming programs are suited to satisfy Explorer 5. 4.6 was the most stable Netscape browser in my opinion. I haven't run 6 through the gauntlet yet, but I see some features I don't like. First of all, it ignores table backgrounds that have no content--bad.

The saga continues...

[g4-guy]

I use IE 5. It seems a lot better than Netscape, but maybe not quite as stable. I have to keep my copy of Netscape up-to-date because I need to test web pages in it, but for my own browsing, it's IE all the way.

------------------
Regards,
g4-guy

I use Netscape 4.75 because IE 5 crashes often on my machine and renders pages noticeably slower. Plus, I find it pretty annoying that IE uses menu and scrollbar colors that are inconsistent with the MacOS. Don't even get me started about the interface inconsistencies in Netscape 6...

In my experience IE 5 is much quicker than Netscape 4x. I hate to admit it but IE 5 is a halfway decent product.

[Fred CHOTTIN]

I tried Explorer 5 but i soon returned to Netscape 4.7. I hate moving between different things to get my mail.I loaded NS 6 but i have some problems with my scrolling wheel that is not recognized. Fortunately, it is not an update but a full version so i have both now and wait for a 6.1 to appear soon. Besides i don't like all the crap that every MS application put in my system file, you don't know exactly what it is, it inflates your OS print and makes it less stable.

[jamesa]

OmniWeb is the best browser for OS X!

Between IE and NS, I think IE providees a better user experience. But 95% of the time, I use iCab. I like that it is small, fast, Mac-saavy and a stickler for W3C standards. I don't like the 1MB+ worth of crap that IE dumps into the System Folder, their lame Java implementation -- and I personally just don't like Microsoft. I have NS 4.7.6 for use on the few sites where the web design is so incompetent that it depends on browser-specific features rather than on the W3C-specified standards for HTML.

[TimmyDee51]

I was a stalwort Netscape user until IE 5 came out and Netscape released 4.73 or something. I have to give it to Microsoft, I was leery but they have a solid product in IE 5. The user experience is good and the interface is a refreshing break from the norm.

I use IE for everything unless I need to download from an ftp site. For some reason it cannot handle ftp sites (cannot build connection to host), maybe due to the firewall I am behind.

Originally posted by GayGuy:
Between IE and NS, I think IE providees a better user experience. But 95% of the time, I use iCab. I like that it is small, fast, Mac-saavy and a stickler for W3C standards. I don't like the 1MB+ worth of crap that IE dumps into the System Folder, their lame Java implementation -- and I personally just don't like Microsoft. I have NS 4.7.6 for use on the few sites where the web design is so incompetent that it depends on browser-specific features rather than on the W3C-specified standards for HTML.

Err, IE5 uses MRJ, which is as good as you get on MacOS; perhaps you meant *Netscape's* lame Java implementation? As for iCab: it's fine to support *some* standards well, but they've still got a long way to go. I think it's unclear whether iCab is getting closer to completion or is falling further behind as new standards become apparent (and implemented elsewhere).

Seems that IE5 is rock solid on some macs (including mine thankfully) but somewhat flaky on others. Netscape 6 --once the thing was finally installed-- feels to me like I'm balancing a boulder on a pole above my head; it's gonna come down....

Paul Mc

Netscape 6 reminds me of MS Word 6.0 for Macintosh... anyone else?

NS6 lasted for about 3 launches on my system. I especially hate how it took over my system. I don't want AOL messenger, I don't want your makeshift news channels, I dont want my homepage system wide to be netcenter, and i don't want your shotty themes. Back to good ol' IE 5--the no-nonsense browser...

I was unclear: by "lame Java implementation", I meant IE's quirky JavaScript implementation. The Java implementation, IF you use the MRJ option in Preferences, is OK.
I'm not sure what you mean by "emerging standards". As far as I know, only the W3C sets "standards" and I wasn't aware that anything new has emerged.

I forbid you to say that unholy name again!

Netscrap sucks

No pie for you!

[WTWolfe]

I installed Netscape 6.0 tonight...I think I will stick with Internet Explorer 5.0. Netscape 6.0 had trouble even displaying pages correctly including the MacNN Reader Forums. For being a "6.0" version it is rather disappointing to say the least.

[Richard Pinneau]

Thanks for the WARNING about NS6, Pantlegs ("how it took over my system"). I don't need more megasoftware attempts to permeate my consciousness.
Perhaps its the AOL monopoly-minded parentage or fact that
NS rhymes with MS
but it seems that Netscape wants to out-MS MS.
I'm grateful to GayGuy for spurring me on finally to explore iCab -- working great for most of my needs for now !

------------------
�RP

[Kon-El]

IE ever since 4.5 when previously I was a Netscape guy. Sadly, although Netscape 6 has promise, it MAKES IE CRASH every 5 minutes.

As a Web Designer I use IE by default, but then view it in Netscape to see if it displays right.

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Pax Christi,
-Nik!

[poocat]

ie 5 is fine, i guess. it puts so much stuff on your computer, eats so much memory even without any windows open, refuses to load certain sites, and is slightly quirky. it's a nice browser, but i'm not sure if that matters much since it makes me feel slightly ill while i use it... i use icab almost all the time, switching to ie only if i need to use a flash site. i wish macromedia would support more browsers... ah well, give it time. get icab!

poocat.

[tombarta]

I use Netscape 4.6. NS 6 is a work in progress-- not ready for prime time, but it looks like it will have the best rendering accuracy when it is done. IE is slower than Navigator 4.6 and the pages don't look as good--since everybody designs for Netscape, I guess. The coming advent of XML should favor Netscape, since the NS6 engine is supposedly XML ready.

I find both IE 5 and all version of Netscape between 4.x and 4.6 to be pretty stable. I get maybe one crash a month, with HEAVY surfing.


It is said Netscape 4.7 uses Apple's MRJ. I have'nt tried it because so few web sites use any Java-- who cares?

I hate the new netscape, it doesn't recognize anything I already have, like quicktime and realplayer and keeps wanting me to download them. IE drives me crazy, sticking all these bizzare files in my system that I have no idea what they are for and have had several extension conflicts because of. Because of this forum, I just downloaded iCab. I really like it! I am not a power user, and I like it's non-bloat. And of course I love the fact that it has nothing to do with the dark side! Since it's developers are apparently german, I think of it as the Volkswagen of browsers, hee hee.

[Richard Pinneau]

Limitation of NS 4.75:
After discussion here I decided to try NS. But...
One thing UNsupported seems to be coping text off a web WITH the fonts (and their color). E.g. when i try to copy a discussion from this forum and paste into Simpletext doc for offline reference, NS loses all the formating, while IE preserves it beautifiully.
Have I missed something in NS?

[iMacMike]

I prefer NC 4.7 because it simply works and keeps working with just about everything on the web. I've never had a crash problem, especially with 32000 prefered assigned. I also like the all-in-one design, with browser, email and news in one memory space. I read a lot of forums and it's very nice to be able to see threads I've already read for 14 days. I also like to listen to spinner.com while I'm doing email... doing that with IE/OE will lock my iMac up everytime.

I've always had hickups with IE/OE5. Poor JavaScript support, shoddy Java integration, no LiveConnect and poor plug-in support, rampant memory leaks, extension conflicts and overloads, and constant corruption of cache and preference files. Visited links are only good until midnight, then they're reset to the default color. Text boxes seem about half the size they should be. IE takes over the appearance of my scroll bars until I quit. OE has memory and database problems, problems with HTML mail, and it seems to me rediculous to lock up 8meg of RAM for an email app. One by one, these are little things, but put them all together and it appears bug-ridden.

Bondi iMac 233, 96meg, OS 9.0.4