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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > 17 inch Powerbook perfect in every way...? NOT!

17 inch Powerbook perfect in every way...? NOT!
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lothar154
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Mar 28, 2003, 12:23 PM
 
I recently "switched" to MAC which isnt really accurate since I still use my windows xp machine. In any case I was sucked up into all they hype of switching to mac - and how the grass is invariabley greener on the mac side of the computing worlds electric fence.

Well, although there are several things about macs and the 17 inch powerbook that I find impressive, there are enough things that make so little sense to me that I can't honestly say mac design is really that much better then PC design.

Firstly, and most annoyingly, what the hell is Apples problem with 2 mouse buttons? I found this to be the most frustrating and agonizingly obvious and glaring design flaw. As far as I can remember Macs have always had one button. Why? Context sensative menu's anyone? I stil try and right click in frustration because computing is complex enough that you need a minimum of two buttons. On Apples website they claim to agonize over every little detail. Yeah, the laptop looks gorgeous, but I don't want to make love to it, I want to use it in a functional way. Function has to be incorprated in leading edge design, otherwise creative design is meaningless. My old HP laptop had a beautiful touch pad with a scrolling section off to the side. Where is this on the apple? I spent $3,800 on a laptop that doesnt even have the basic features found on a $900.00 PC laptop.

Keyboard; Why is it flush up against the edge of the top of the unit? Do my hands look like they are 2 feet long? I find the positioning of the keyboard to be highly non-ergonomic. In fact it makes absolutely no sense to me why it is positioned so high. There is a huge amount of space at the edge of the keyboard that is just wasted space. How bout doing something usefull with that space like a recessed number pad or a scrolling section for the touchpad?

How about some quick launch buttons? Woah thats such a radical idea.

Don't get me wrong, I am impressed with the balance of speed, weight, and performance, but Macs and the G4 17 inch is far from perfect and in fact - could be much more functional if Apple would just incorporate standard issue features that the PC industry has been using for years.

My .04 cents.

Lothar

     
tonewheel
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Mar 28, 2003, 12:45 PM
 
You purchase an expensive laptop without checking into the features and form factor first, fainling make an educated decision? Congratulations, you deserve to wallow in your stupidity.

p.s...try CONROL-CLICK. Wow! Lot's of other simple answers you would have also discovered if you'd have done your due diligence. But me suspects a troll in the woods...
     
iHanhauser
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Mar 28, 2003, 12:49 PM
 
Hey Switcher ....

You can buy a USB mouse, and you will be able to RIGHT CLICK. I would recommend Microsoft Blue Wireless Mouse.


lata
iHanhauser
     
MyRuin
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Mar 28, 2003, 12:56 PM
 
Why do you (tonewheel) have to be so closed minded? He is only giving is opinion you don't have to be like that.
I'm too am waiting the 17", and Iím a switcher, and Iím not really happy with Apple delays and everything.
The PowerBook 17" looks to me the best laptop in the world, but nothing is perfect! So don't put it on a place of untouchable!
I really don't care about if Apple doesnít put the second mouse button.
And I really really don't want extra buttons on the keyboard. But I'll don't flame lothar154 because of that.
     
AssassyN
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Mar 28, 2003, 01:16 PM
 
Very true...I too am a switcher awaiting my 17" PB and I'm fully aware that Apple products use a single mouse-button, and I'm also aware of the keyboard placement.

First, addressing your mouse issue, you can do as I am doing and purchase an external mouse (I'm going to be using the Logitech MX500) and have total mouse functionality.

About the keyboard, it has to be centered with the body of the notebook, or else it would look terribly awkward. Not everyone needs a number pad, and including one would've throw the beauty of the machine off a bit. Too, the space of the sides of the keyboards aren't wasted at all, there are speakers under there. Also, large vented openings aid in the cooling of the machine, and helps keep it quiet because if you've noticed, your fan probably doesn't come on a whole lot unless your taxing the machine. They keyboard is positioned where it is to, again, be balanced, and also to allow for the trackpad below it. Most people compliment this as it acts as a wrist support.

Quick launch buttons? You betcha...see those "F" buttons up at the top? A simple macro program such as the free Keyboard Maestro (Click HERE) allows you to assign basically any launch command, or any other quick command you wish, to any keys you wish, including the "F" keys atop your keyboard.

These are respectable complaints, and thanks for not completely bashing it, rather just giving your open opinion. You must also realize, however, that these things you pointed out are merely petty in comparison with all the things that you weren't able to complain about because the notebook is such a fine peice of machinery. If you have any other questions, just post!
5G 60GB video iPod
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Westone UM1 Canalphones
     
lothar154  (op)
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Mar 28, 2003, 01:19 PM
 
I appreciat your perspective Myruin.

As for the flamer, I am perfectly aware that there was only one button on the G4; the issue was I didn't realize until I used it how non-functional it really is. "Control Click?" Is this the extent of the highly touted Apple design? Having to press a button on the keyboard and mouse button to achieve the same goal of a simple right click? I am so impressed.

Indeed I have already purchased a usb mouse, thanks for the advice from the more polite replier. I can't carry that mouse around all the time though and certainly not on air planes. It just seems so unnecessary and glaringly flawed for Apple to implement only one button on their products. It's almost as if they are doing it just to be different at the sacrifice of the functionality of the product. My main point is that there products still have a lot of room for improvement and until they embrace features that are more mainstream and functional, they will probably continue to cling to the tiny market share that they currently have. I want to see them improve; it just baffles me that they don't seem to see the most obvious.

It also baffes me why tonewheel needs to make a complete fool of himself and respond the way he did.

-Lothar

Originally posted by MyRuin:
Why do you (tonewheel) have to be so closed minded? He is only giving is opinion you don't have to be like that.
I'm too am waiting the 17", and Iím a switcher, and Iím not really happy with Apple delays and everything.
The PowerBook 17" looks to me the best laptop in the world, but nothing is perfect! So don't put it on a place of untouchable!
I really don't care about if Apple doesnít put the second mouse button.
And I really really don't want extra buttons on the keyboard. But I'll don't flame lothar154 because of that.
     
ghost_flash
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Mar 28, 2003, 01:26 PM
 
Originally posted by lothar154:
I recently "switched" to MAC which isnt really accurate since I still use my windows xp machine. In any case I was sucked up into all they hype of switching to mac - and how the grass is invariabley greener on the mac side of the computing worlds electric fence.

Well, although there are several things about macs and the 17 inch powerbook that I find impressive, there are enough things that make so little sense to me that I can't honestly say mac design is really that much better then PC design.

Firstly, and most annoyingly, what the hell is Apples problem with 2 mouse buttons? I found this to be the most frustrating and agonizingly obvious and glaring design flaw. As far as I can remember Macs have always had one button. Why? Context sensative menu's anyone? I stil try and right click in frustration because computing is complex enough that you need a minimum of two buttons. On Apples website they claim to agonize over every little detail. Yeah, the laptop looks gorgeous, but I don't want to make love to it, I want to use it in a functional way. Function has to be incorprated in leading edge design, otherwise creative design is meaningless. My old HP laptop had a beautiful touch pad with a scrolling section off to the side. Where is this on the apple? I spent $3,800 on a laptop that doesnt even have the basic features found on a $900.00 PC laptop.

Keyboard; Why is it flush up against the edge of the top of the unit? Do my hands look like they are 2 feet long? I find the positioning of the keyboard to be highly non-ergonomic. In fact it makes absolutely no sense to me why it is positioned so high. There is a huge amount of space at the edge of the keyboard that is just wasted space. How bout doing something usefull with that space like a recessed number pad or a scrolling section for the touchpad?

How about some quick launch buttons? Woah thats such a radical idea.

Don't get me wrong, I am impressed with the balance of speed, weight, and performance, but Macs and the G4 17 inch is far from perfect and in fact - could be much more functional if Apple would just incorporate standard issue features that the PC industry has been using for years.

My .04 cents.

Lothar

You could always sell it back to apple for a 10% restocking fee.
or
Sell it to someone whom hasn't received theirs yet without taking the 10% hit.
and then
go back to your Windows based PC, with all that great stuff you just mentioned that the MAC doesn't have.

I'm a "switcher" but no campaign got me... I actually had to use the mac at my last job and learned all the great things it actually IS, and then made an informed decision basedd upon my actual needs an how this machine (17" powerbook) fulfills them unlike any PC/Windows machine could.

For me, it is the best on the market for the following reasons.

1. 802.11b/g wireless built in, since well 2 years before any PC
2. 17" screen
3. 1ghz = 2ghz PC
4. 1gb ram, theoretically upgradeable to 2gb of ram, I've checked YES
5. 60gb hard drive
6. It is only 1" thin and is easy to carry around, no brick here.
7. OSX and soon to come PANTHER
8. I can leave it in sleep mode ALWAYS! no heat, no power loss... well, ok 1% per hour on sleep mode battery only, and eternity plugged in. INSTANT ON BABY! Try that WINDOWS.
9. Oh, I use XP on it as well but only for logging into my school's VPN at this point... that is it.
10. DVDR/CDRW Drive burns at 16x(CDR)
11. Firewire 800!!! and Firewire 400 (Still 2x of USB 2)
12. DVI
13. It looks cool, and the keyboard lights up with changes in the AMBIENT LIGHT... very impressive.
14. The keyboard is superb! I love it and I type all the time.
15. The speakers are fantastic!
16. I don't really need all those buttons, because I have programmed my function keys to do all I need, and oh yes it does support two button mice...The one button mouse is a great tradition for APPLE because it is supremely KID FRIENDLY, you don't have to use them.
17. I paid only $3,200 for mine, you got ripped off, FREE 512mb ram.
18. I have to say it again. 17" of computer monitor lovin!
19. SCROLLING PAD? try the arrow keys.... they are programmable too.
You can scroll to a point or down a page, or use that scroll wheel on the two button mouse you should have bought.
20. It isn't a piece of plastic crap, like the HP/COMPAQ laptops.
I sold my old one at a loss and was pleased with the deal.
Good riddance.

Enjoy your pc, I wish you luck, and hope you didn't crash in the process of reading this post.

:O)

...
     
lothar154  (op)
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Mar 28, 2003, 01:33 PM
 
Thanks for your insight AssassyN.

I understand your perspective; however I don't agree with your analysis completely. Balance of the unit is an issue of perspective as well. Apple chose to keep the lines simple and clean. They could have just as easily mounted the speakers at the top or bottom of the keyboard (placement on the sides muffles the sounds as my hands/arm cover up a portion of the speaker when I am typing). This would have forced the keyboard into a more natural lower position. As for the empty space towards the bottom and the sides, you don't want your palms resting on the unit; this contributes to carporal-tunnel syndrome.

I would have liked to see the keyboard extend the horizontal length of the unit with the speaker mounted as a continuous bar across the top with the ambient sensor in the upper left or right hand corner. This setup allows for additional function keys (like quick launch) and for a longer, more elaborate and spaced keyboard. I know about the macro, but why should I have to do extra work? If Apple wants to lure me to switch, I shouldn't have to work harder to do the same things I was easily and comfortabley doing on a PC (right clicking a predetermined function key - which can easily be reassigned on PC's as well).

I would also have liked to see a scroll section on the touchpad of the unit with two buttons instead of one and perhaps even a scroll wheel in the middle like the Sony Vaio's have.

Does anyone know of a port replcator for the 17inch? Apple touts it as a desktop replacement, but I have to connect and reconnect all my usb devices, etc. evertime I take it on the road; very inconveinent. PC laptops have port replicators/ and or docking stations that just lift off seamlessly.

The bottom line is as beautiful and functional the G4 is, there is room for improvement - and what strikes me as how obvious and seeminlgy relatively simple to impliment the improvement really is. A few tweaks here and there and the G4 is far superior to any pc laptop on the market, but as it stands, I can't bring myself to hold Apple design and functionality superior to PC design and functionality; I see it as just "different" and I think sadly that is what Apple is shooting for.

Lothar

Originally posted by AssassyN:
Very true...I too am a switcher awaiting my 17" PB and I'm fully aware that Apple products use a single mouse-button, and I'm also aware of the keyboard placement.

First, addressing your mouse issue, you can do as I am doing and purchase an external mouse (I'm going to be using the Logitech MX500) and have total mouse functionality.

About the keyboard, it has to be centered with the body of the notebook, or else it would look terribly awkward. Not everyone needs a number pad, and including one would've throw the beauty of the machine off a bit. Too, the space of the sides of the keyboards aren't wasted at all, there are speakers under there. Also, large vented openings aid in the cooling of the machine, and helps keep it quiet because if you've noticed, your fan probably doesn't come on a whole lot unless your taxing the machine. They keyboard is positioned where it is to, again, be balanced, and also to allow for the trackpad below it. Most people compliment this as it acts as a wrist support.

Quick launch buttons? You betcha...see those "F" buttons up at the top? A simple macro program such as the free Keyboard Maestro (Click HERE) allows you to assign basically any launch command, or any other quick command you wish, to any keys you wish, including the "F" keys atop your keyboard.

These are respectable complaints, and thanks for not completely bashing it, rather just giving your open opinion. You must also realize, however, that these things you pointed out are merely petty in comparison with all the things that you weren't able to complain about because the notebook is such a fine peice of machinery. If you have any other questions, just post!
     
lothar154  (op)
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Mar 28, 2003, 01:39 PM
 
Ghost,

I worked on Mac's for 3 years (not by choice) when I was in research design at Carnegie Mellon. My Mac (g3 at the time) crashed 5 times a day (minimum) while my other Windows machine ran quietly and soundly without crashing a single time I used in in 2 years (Windows 2000). Mac touts Unix stability (now) but their tarnished past really speaks otherwise. Its the reason I won't buy a Hyundai. For 20 years they made crap. Now they have the best warrenty (a coworker bought one and ---he is using that warrenty almost on a weekly basis).

My XP machine has not crashed once in the year I have been running it.

My HP laptop is a workhorse and I have had it for 5 years. I don't know a single person at work that has had an Apple last that long. Prior to their aluminum and titanium series, their machines were just as plastic as anyone elses. I have a Sony Vaio Laptop that is 4 lbs and .77 inchs thin with a 15 inch display running windows XP. Never crashed, aluminum frame, thin, light and gorgeous.


Lothar

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
You could always sell it back to apple for a 10% restocking fee.
or
Sell it to someone whom hasn't received theirs yet without taking the 10% hit.
and then
go back to your Windows based PC, with all that great stuff you just mentioned that the MAC doesn't have.

I'm a "switcher" but no campaign got me... I actually had to use the mac at my last job and learned all the great things it actually IS, and then made an informed decision basedd upon my actual needs an how this machine (17" powerbook) fulfills them unlike any PC/Windows machine could.

For me, it is the best on the market for the following reasons.

1. 802.11b/g wireless built in, since well 2 years before any PC
2. 17" screen
3. 1ghz = 2ghz PC
4. 1gb ram, theoretically upgradeable to 2gb of ram, I've checked YES
5. 60gb hard drive
6. It is only 1" thin and is easy to carry around, no brick here.
7. OSX and soon to come PANTHER
8. I can leave it in sleep mode ALWAYS! no heat, no power loss... well, ok 1% per hour on sleep mode battery only, and eternity plugged in. INSTANT ON BABY! Try that WINDOWS.
9. Oh, I use XP on it as well but only for logging into my school's VPN at this point... that is it.
10. DVDR/CDRW Drive burns at 16x(CDR)
11. Firewire 800!!! and Firewire 400 (Still 2x of USB 2)
12. DVI
13. It looks cool, and the keyboard lights up with changes in the AMBIENT LIGHT... very impressive.
14. The keyboard is superb! I love it and I type all the time.
15. The speakers are fantastic!
16. I don't really need all those buttons, because I have programmed my function keys to do all I need, and oh yes it does support two button mice...The one button mouse is a great tradition for APPLE because it is supremely KID FRIENDLY, you don't have to use them.
17. I paid only $3,200 for mine, you got ripped off, FREE 512mb ram.
18. I have to say it again. 17" of computer monitor lovin!
19. SCROLLING PAD? try the arrow keys.... they are programmable too.
You can scroll to a point or down a page, or use that scroll wheel on the two button mouse you should have bought.
20. It isn't a piece of plastic crap, like the HP/COMPAQ laptops.
I sold my old one at a loss and was pleased with the deal.
Good riddance.

Enjoy your pc, I wish you luck, and hope you didn't crash in the process of reading this post.

:O)

     
tonewheel
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Mar 28, 2003, 01:42 PM
 
Well put, Ghost...
     
forcelite
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Mar 28, 2003, 01:47 PM
 
PC's have gone overboard with accessories and thus have lost their cosmetic apeal. It is VERY hard to find any pc laptop that compares cosmeticly to any of apples, sony has 1 or 2. Also you just use apples differently. Like instead of right clicking a link to open in another browser you have quick keys for that, so thats how apple users navagate and manage things. I like both PC's and apples. Apples are WAY less prone to crashing, for the record I have both a pc and an apple and have crashed XP more than I would like to share, I have never crashed OSX, just internet explorer (heh microsoft)

Take care
Forcelite
     
jango
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Mar 28, 2003, 01:47 PM
 
First off, you don't sound happy with your purchase, so return it.

Secondly, name one pc notebook that you feel is just as good, if not better than the 17inch powerbook.

I am a hardcore pc user, but when it comes to design and pure asthetic beauty, nothing can touch a mac. Usability started with macs and pc's have been trying to catchup for ages.

Why switch to mac and buy a 3200 dollar machine if you don't know already know that mac users have been using 1 button mice for decades. It really does show how naive you are if you go simply by hype.

Go return it and buy an acer. Oh, that's if you own one.
     
spacedog
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Mar 28, 2003, 01:53 PM
 
lothar, i'm a guy who switched to a TiG4 400 about a year and a half ago. there are a few things to keep in mind regarding these user interface issues:

1. until os x, there wasn't really os-wide acceptance of right-clicking, so the two-button mouse issue wasn't such a big deal. it's still easier to learn to use a computer with a single mouse button, and everything on the mac can be done with a single button / control-click - it just takes some getting used to. i prefer to use an external mouse at most times, but that actually has more to do with being trackpad-impaired than having issues with the lack of second buttons. just give it some time.

2. apple pretty much invented the palm rest. the first powerbooks had the keyboard moved way up to make room for the trackball and a resting place for your hands. this is brilliant, and they seem to be the only manufacturer to consistently and effectively maintain a decent amount of space for resting your hands. after i spend a few hours sitting on the couch doing typing, i quickly remember why this is so nice to have.

as far as quick-launch keys, scrollbar trackpads, etc, that's more a personal opinion thing. i think apple would prefer to ensure that getting to the tools you want is easily accomplished and that keys are saved for things that really matter - brighness, volume controls, etc. i've used many different pc laptops over the years, and i've often been appalled at how convoluted the process for muting the speakers is. i've worked on laptops that have scrolling trackpads, lcd trackpads, etc, and they always come across as gimmicky, difficult to make real use of, and quite cheap. (personal opinion, of course...)

i won't say that the transition to the mac was seamless for me - i often got annoyed at little issues at first. but over time, you come to realize the subtle genius behind the hardware and software design. there is a level of thought put into these machines that is absolutely unmatched in the industry. in the end, the only pc laptop feature that i would like on a powerbook is one of those little ibm thinkpad trackpoint dealies. again, that's just because i'm trackpad-impaired.

so i guess i'm saying this: stick with it, be open minded about the change, and you just may end up being really happy with your new toy.

otherwise, i'd be happy to take it off your hands for ya.
     
spacedog
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Mar 28, 2003, 02:02 PM
 
yeah, not many people around here want to talk about how much os9 and below sucked. i remember when windows 95 arrived, all the mac people talked about how it didn't have any features that weren't available on the mac in '86. that's true, but...uh...in 1995, the MAC hardly had any features that it didn't have in '86.

i would have never purchased a mac if os x hadn't arrived. it is far, far, far better than os9. in comparing windows to macos, i think you'll find that os x offers a similar level of stability to windows 2000. i've personally had poor results with windows xp's reliability, and the ultra-creepy big brother stuff microsoft is pushing on us has left a really bad taste in my mouth.

as far as reliability, you'll find that many people around here are running old hardware that has aged far better than comperable pc hardware. part of it is that macs have a longer lifespan, part of it is that people are more willing to upgrade their mac than just throw it away for something newer. oh, and you might be pleasantly suprised by the resale value of your mac in a couple years...it's likely to be significantly higher than that of a comparable pc.

Originally posted by lothar154:
Ghost,

I worked on Mac's for 3 years (not by choice) when I was in research design at Carnegie Mellon. My Mac (g3 at the time) crashed 5 times a day (minimum) while my other Windows machine ran quietly and soundly without crashing a single time I used in in 2 years (Windows 2000). Mac touts Unix stability (now) but their tarnished past really speaks otherwise. Its the reason I won't buy a Hyundai. For 20 years they made crap. Now they have the best warrenty (a coworker bought one and ---he is using that warrenty almost on a weekly basis).

My XP machine has not crashed once in the year I have been running it.

My HP laptop is a workhorse and I have had it for 5 years. I don't know a single person at work that has had an Apple last that long. Prior to their aluminum and titanium series, their machines were just as plastic as anyone elses. I have a Sony Vaio Laptop that is 4 lbs and .77 inchs thin with a 15 inch display running windows XP. Never crashed, aluminum frame, thin, light and gorgeous.


Lothar
     
lothar154  (op)
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Mar 28, 2003, 02:10 PM
 
For me, it is the best on the market for the following reasons.

1. 802.11b/g wireless built in, since well 2 years before any PC

Um..this is flat out wrong. My Sony Vaio VX 88 has wireless built in with the ability to turn it off when there is no signal to conserve its amazing 5 hour batterly life. I have had it for almost a year and it was out several months before I bought it. Hm...

2. 17" screen

Yes, big screen. As a consequence the unit is very big and harder to carry around situate (especialy on an air plane (notice how in the commercial the 17 inch never is put on one of the seat back trays... it doesnt fit that well. Do you really need 17 inches? No, you need 2 mouse buttons.

3. 1ghz = 2ghz PC

Um...no. Pentium 4 is just as powerfull as G4 and it is a matter of perspective. Both processors are suited to handle different types of processes better.

4. 1gb ram, theoretically upgradeable to 2gb of ram, I've checked YES

Theoretically? No. The slots only support 512mb ram. Two slots. You do the math.

5. 60gb hard drive

HP has a thin and light that has 80 GB drive. Go to www.hp.com

6. It is only 1" thin and is easy to carry around, no brick here.

Sony is .77 inches thin. Powerbook wont fit in any traditional note book bag and is not as easy to carry around as other traditional 15 or 16 inch laptops.

7. OSX and soon to come PANTHER

Ok. Wish I was overly impressed here but I am not. OSX is a giant improvement over the 9xx series but it is not as stable as Unix.

8. I can leave it in sleep mode ALWAYS! no heat, no power loss... well, ok 1% per hour on sleep mode battery only, and eternity plugged in. INSTANT ON BABY! Try that WINDOWS.

Ohh K. This is a nice feaure there is heat and powerloss. My Sony comes out of sleep in less then 2 seconds. I really don't need it faster than that.

9. Oh, I use XP on it as well but only for logging into my school's VPN at this point... that is it.

Good to know, I guess...?

10. DVDR/CDRW Drive burns at 16x(CDR)

Yeah, IBM thinkpad and HP have a DVD/RW. The CD writing is slow and the DVD wriiting is as slow as it gets at 1X speed in the Apple. No one points this out.

11. Firewire 800!!! and Firewire 400 (Still 2x of USB 2)

My sony has firewire and 2 USB.


12. DVI

WHoptie doo. You have to buy an adapter for the VGA standard which is used everywhere. Hardly anyone is using DVI yet.

13. It looks cool, and the keyboard lights up with changes in the AMBIENT LIGHT... very impressive.

Yes, nice feature.

14. The keyboard is superb! I love it and I type all the time.

No it really isn't. It's average at best. Go to www.cnet.com read the review.

15. The speakers are fantastic!

Again, no they are not. Read the review at cnet.com. As opposed to other sub standard apple speakers in prior models they are an improvement but PC speakers I have heard sound much better.

16. I don't really need all those buttons, because I have programmed my function keys to do all I need, and oh yes it does support two button mice...The one button mouse is a great tradition for APPLE because it is supremely KID FRIENDLY, you don't have to use them.

Yes, kid friendly. Unfortunately, I am not a "kid" and I don't anticipate my child playing with my $3800.00 laptop any time soon. This reasoning is really rediculous. Apple has no excuse for one button - none whatsoever other then wanting to be different. Program the keys, use the arrow keys...etc. Just excuses for poor design. Why should I have to do that when it is so easy in PC laptops? If Apple wants to be better they shouldnt make it harder for you to do something you were doing on a pc effortlessly.

17. I paid only $3,200 for mine, you got ripped off, FREE 512mb ram.

Um..no I didn't. Mine has the air port/air card, 1 GB Ram, $200.00 laptop Bag, Office 2003, Virtual PC and other software not included normally.

18. I have to say it again. 17" of computer monitor lovin!

I have to say again, not necessisary - bigger moniter less precious battery time (I'd rather have a 15 or 16 inch and get more battery life)

19. SCROLLING PAD? try the arrow keys.... they are programmable too.
You can scroll to a point or down a page, or use that scroll wheel on the two button mouse you should have bought.

Why should I have to program anything? Why should I have to buy and external mouse to make up for poor apple design. This thing costs an arm and a leg. I shouldn't have to buy a damn mouse.

20. It isn't a piece of plastic crap, like the HP/COMPAQ laptops.
I sold my old one at a loss and was pleased with the deal.
Good riddance.

Plastic crap? See all powerbooks prior to 2000. LOL My HP is still rolling at 5 years (my children use it). Can't say the same for the g3 that is dead in my friends garage.

Enjoy your pc, I wish you luck, and hope you didn't crash in the process of reading this post.

2 years and still haven't crashed. Again see all versions of Apple OS prior to Os 9XX

LOL.

:O)




[/B][/QUOTE]
     
icruise
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Mar 28, 2003, 02:11 PM
 
Let's put this simply. In windows, right clicking on things is important. With the Mac, (not MAC, by the way) the OS is made in such a way that right clicking is really not emphasized. I do use a two button USB mouse with my powerbook, but right clicking for most things is not really necessary. If you do need to do it, there are other options as some have already pointed out (these include option click, and click and hold). I don't think the world would come to an end if Apple started putting two buttons on its mice, but the point is Apple's design concept is to avoid unnecessary complexity.

As for program lauching buttons, you have about 86 or so right there on your keyboard. By this I mean that there are a lot of programs that allow you to set hotkeys and shortcuts for lauching programs or performing operations.

There is nothing wrong with the Mac way of doing things -- you are just suffering from culture shock.
     
slffl
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Mar 28, 2003, 02:12 PM
 
I just have to laugh about the 'wasted space around the keyboard' issue that many people bring up. Do they not realize that the keyboard takes up space? If you expand the keyboard, then you have to shrink something else.
     
chrisutley
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Mar 28, 2003, 02:14 PM
 
17 inch Powerbook perfect in every way...? NOT!
What is? I've probably owned 35+ computers in 20-years, I cannot think of one that was close to perfect in every way.

I hate the one-button mouse. It makes zero sense to me why Apple refuses to go with two, so I have to assume it's an emotional decision from somebody at the top (see Jobs, S.). In any event, I also hate trackpads so I always use a mouse that happens to have 4-buttons and life is grand. Is the one-button issue a big deal? Nope. Would it cause me to switch to Windows? Of course not.

As for keyboard placement, there's a highly subjective issue. I happen to like the keyboard placement.

Quicklaunch buttons? Now you're getting silly. There are tons of programs out there that will let you program F-Keys and and other key combos, no need to clutter things up with extra keys. Do yourself a favor and go download LaunchBar from VersionTracker.com. It is the essence of Mac software, and is my favorite utility of all time on any platform.

You seemed to get pretty worked up over some fairly minor issues. I'm not sure I understand how you could have purchased this machine without knowing about these issues in advance. All you had to do was go down to an Apple retailer and look at the PowerBooks or iBooks, or do some research online. You could have gone to Apple.com/powerbook, too. You have nobody to blame but yourself for buying the machine sight unseen without doing your homework. It's this one point that makes me wonder if your post is even legit.
MacBook and iMac Core 2 Duo 24"
     
Stingrey
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Mar 28, 2003, 02:15 PM
 
I didn't want to reply, but I couldn't help it. In short, the Powerbook didn't come with a mouse. So for you to say "what is their problem with two mouse buttons" is funny, 'cause the Powerbook doesn't come with a mouse. Sorry, I did read the rest and understand you not wanting to carry around a mouse for mobility purposes, but it was funny when I read it. It sounded like you went and bought the wrong mouse or something, instead of simply saying "why one clicker, no "right" clicker option on the trackpad" or something like that. Found humor in it, so thanks.

Far as the need for that other mouse button, who knows. I'm sure whatever you do is critically dependant upon the use of that contextual menu, which Apple does provide of course as you learned by the person stating that you should try control+click. If you know nothing about something and buy it anyway, good for you for having that type of cash to throw around. Other than that, I don't know what to tell you aside from what has been stated already. There are people who have waited for a few months on this item (I waited only 3 days :) so you can easily turn around and sell this to someone else I'd think.

I do agree that a number pad would be nice too... I don't agree that the keyboard is poorly designed. If you use it in a sitting, it does work nicely to have the flat surface to rest your wrists on. For me anyhow. And even for Mini-Me. If you have a problem, you are in the minority. On the other hand, I DO prefer a regular keyboard when I use this in a desktop setting, and I DO have one that I use in place and I also DO agree that a docking station would be a nice plus as someone else stated. All in all, not sure how we can help you. Thanks though for sharing your negative feedback with us, it really helps us out to hear from people like you. Thanks for your time, you've made a difference in our lives. I am sure your mother is proud of you.

Rey.
     
lothar154  (op)
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Mar 28, 2003, 02:17 PM
 
I appreciate your perspective but it is not culture shock. I worke on macs for 5 years (on a G4 more recently). You need to buttons. Apple wants to emphasize the illusion of less complexity but it really is that; an illusion. Context sensative menus are a concept they only adopted several years ago. Finally breaking down and accepting the standard in the PC world. Having to hit a button on the keyboard and the singl mouse click is really dissapointing. Windows could just as easily tweak their OS to have to open window after window and only have one mouse button - but that doesnt make sense.

Its a matter of perspective. Using both Mac and PC for many years my take on it is that Macs are userfriendly for those that have never run on PC and for those switching from PC it is frustrating.

Originally posted by Icruise:
Let's put this simply. In windows, right clicking on things is important. With the Mac, (not MAC, by the way) the OS is made in such a way that right clicking is really not emphasized. I do use a two button USB mouse with my powerbook, but right clicking for most things is not really necessary. If you do need to do it, there are other options as some have already pointed out (these include option click, and click and hold). I don't think the world would come to an end if Apple started putting two buttons on its mice, but the point is Apple's design concept is to avoid unnecessary complexity.

As for program lauching buttons, you have about 86 or so right there on your keyboard. By this I mean that there are a lot of programs that allow you to set hotkeys and shortcuts for lauching programs or performing operations.

There is nothing wrong with the Mac way of doing things -- you are just suffering from culture shock.
     
icruise
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Mar 28, 2003, 02:18 PM
 
Your attitude makes me wonder if you are not just trolling, but for the heck of it I will respond.

Originally posted by lothar154:
For me, it is the best on the market for the following reasons.

1. 802.11b/g wireless built in, since well 2 years before any PC

Um..this is flat out wrong. My Sony Vaio VX 88 has wireless built in with the ability to turn it off when there is no signal to conserve its amazing 5 hour batterly life. I have had it for almost a year and it was out several months before I bought it. Hm...


How is this wrong? Your Vaio has 802.11g built in? News to me. Apple was also first with internal 802.11b with the ibooks.


2. 17" screen

Yes, big screen. As a consequence the unit is very big and harder to carry around situate (especialy on an air plane (notice how in the commercial the 17 inch never is put on one of the seat back trays... it doesnt fit that well. Do you really need 17 inches? No, you need 2 mouse buttons.


Surely you realize that the 17" is a big laptop. If you want a more portable computer, get a 15" or 12" powerbook or ibook. Duh.



4. 1gb ram, theoretically upgradeable to 2gb of ram, I've checked YES

Theoretically? No. The slots only support 512mb ram. Two slots. You do the math.


The biggest RAM modules available at the time of the manufacture of the 17" were 512MB. When the 1GB modules become commonly available they should work.

I'm getting tired of this, so I'll leave it here. But I must ask, why on earth did you buy it if it is such a terrible machine?
     
lothar154  (op)
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Mar 28, 2003, 02:23 PM
 
Apparently you are missing the point. I have gotten into a war of words here and that was not my intention.

I was well aware of the differences between apple and pc design. Apple wants me to believe that they are not an issue. No one had the powerbooks (17inch) to look at. But it doesn't matter. The issues I bring up are minor; yes. My reaction is to the post that said this is the best laptop on the market. It clearly isn't and it clearly isn't perfect. But it is not even a matter of perfect. My issues are the same issues people have complained about for years. Why won't apple listen? All they need are a few updates to their design and their products would be the best. The severity of my argument is that the issues are minor, but historical and that really is unnecessary on their part.



Originally posted by chrisutley:
What is? I've probably owned 35+ computers in 20-years, I cannot think of one that was close to perfect in every way.

I hate the one-button mouse. It makes zero sense to me why Apple refuses to go with two, so I have to assume it's an emotional decision from somebody at the top (see Jobs, S.). In any event, I also hate trackpads so I always use a mouse that happens to have 4-buttons and life is grand. Is the one-button issue a big deal? Nope. Would it cause me to switch to Windows? Of course not.

As for keyboard placement, there's a highly subjective issue. I happen to like the keyboard placement.

Quicklaunch buttons? Now you're getting silly. There are tons of programs out there that will let you program F-Keys and and other key combos, no need to clutter things up with extra keys. Do yourself a favor and go download LaunchBar from VersionTracker.com. It is the essence of Mac software, and is my favorite utility of all time on any platform.

You seemed to get pretty worked up over some fairly minor issues. I'm not sure I understand how you could have purchased this machine without knowing about these issues in advance. All you had to do was go down to an Apple retailer and look at the PowerBooks or iBooks, or do some research online. You could have gone to Apple.com/powerbook, too. You have nobody to blame but yourself for buying the machine sight unseen without doing your homework. It's this one point that makes me wonder if your post is even legit.
     
jtbowden
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Mar 28, 2003, 02:23 PM
 
You don't even have to control-click. Most of the time you can hold-click.

The beutiful thing about the Macintosh operating system is that you can do things many ways. (like Perl, but that's another thing..) If you don't like control-clicking, hold-click. If you don't like that, right click on your new 2-button mouse. If you don't like that, write an apple script that right-clicks when you say the phrase "pimento loaf". (OK, maybe not...)

I'm not arguing with anyone. Just stating one of the beauties of Macintosh.

P.S. I work daily on Windows (XP, 2000, 98), Linux (Redhat, Debian), and Unix. But I always come home to my Powerbook and breathe a sigh of relief. I'm an Electrical/Computer Engineer. I design chips for a living, so don't try to feed me marketing crap about Mhz.
     
lothar154  (op)
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Mar 28, 2003, 02:27 PM
 
Your getting tired because your facts are wrong.

I lik this machine, as I mentioned in my original post (why don't you go read it).

My remarks were balanced, as a polite replier mentiond. I was responding to minor issues that I had that seemed unnecessary and glaring on apples part and they are ones that they have had for years without the willingness to address them (and they wonder why their market share is so small).

This started as a me saying I am relatively happy but here are some minor and historical issuses that I just dont get and everyone in here turned this into a war of words. Read my original post. Take a chill pill.

P.S. Sony has had the built in wireless for 2 years. Go to their site, go to Cnet.com and look at reviews.

Originally posted by Icruise:
Your attitude makes me wonder if you are not just trolling, but for the heck of it I will respond.



How is this wrong? Your Vaio has 802.11g built in? News to me. Apple was also first with internal 802.11b with the ibooks.

[/b]

Surely you realize that the 17" is a big laptop. If you want a more portable computer, get a 15" or 12" powerbook or ibook. Duh.

[/b]

The biggest RAM modules available at the time of the manufacture of the 17" were 512MB. When the 1GB modules become commonly available they should work.

I'm getting tired of this, so I'll leave it here. But I must ask, why on earth did you buy it if it is such a terrible machine? [/B]
     
forcelite
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Mar 28, 2003, 02:28 PM
 
I can guarentee that your sony doesnt come out of stanby in 2 seconds. I have a dell and it takes at least 8 seconds of button clicking to get the thing to wake up.

Also yes the powerbook has the slowst dvd-r but it is the ONLY one with a dvd-r, so whats better, none or the slowest?

Also you are pointing back and forth between differenet notebooks to prove pc's are better, you say sony this Hp this. The fact is that the 17' has a ton of great features.

I am not a super mac person either I just know a good product when I see one.
     
andretan
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Mar 28, 2003, 02:28 PM
 
I totally agree with icruise.

Anyway, Quicklaunch buttons make the machine look cluttered.
And to add to that, I don't see those Quicklaunch buttons on my old Wintel laptop -- that means that it isn't the "standard". Standard usually refers to a set of rules that people (companies in this case) should stick to.

Just my 5Á.

For the nasty part ( ) -->
As for your other points in your post, I shan't blabber on.
My advise to you: Sell your 17" PB off and buy all the PC laptops you can, since you sound like the PB ain't cut out for you. Save yourself some complaining and stuff to do.

     
jamez bond
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Mar 28, 2003, 02:31 PM
 
WTF!
This is a bit rubish, really...Can't people see the value of a second button on the trackpad?
I really, really don't think this is a lot to ask for by a user that has just shelled out a considerable amount of money for a new laptop.
And to the ones that think apple does this as a design feature, or keeps this as an "original" feature of the mac....wake up from your heavy mac-coma. To place a button like this, and make the one you already have work even better, would be a doddle. Seriously!

The machine is almost perfect, so it is ok that they have not included some very nice features??? WTF Again!
If I go to clients saying that this new thingie I have designed is almost perfect, they will like to know why it is not PERFECT!.

Guess this winds me up a bit, so I will leave it with that....come on. We all love macs, but we have to be able to point out missing features, and not just follow the leader blindly.

Anyone want to fight, maybe?
Yahoo! Got my new Macbook!
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lothar154  (op)
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Mar 28, 2003, 02:31 PM
 
What does my mother have to do with this? If you cant handle constructive criticism without such a childish, baseless resposne perhaps you shouldn't post on an adult forum. And by the way, the track pad on the laptop is the equivalent a mouse (if you can understand this). The laptop doesn't come with a two button mouse but it should. I find great humor in your response as well. Ignorance truly is bliss.

Originally posted by Stingrey:
I didn't want to reply, but I couldn't help it. In short, the Powerbook didn't come with a mouse. So for you to say "what is their problem with two mouse buttons" is funny, 'cause the Powerbook doesn't come with a mouse. Sorry, I did read the rest and understand you not wanting to carry around a mouse for mobility purposes, but it was funny when I read it. It sounded like you went and bought the wrong mouse or something, instead of simply saying "why one clicker, no "right" clicker option on the trackpad" or something like that. Found humor in it, so thanks.

Far as the need for that other mouse button, who knows. I'm sure whatever you do is critically dependant upon the use of that contextual menu, which Apple does provide of course as you learned by the person stating that you should try control+click. If you know nothing about something and buy it anyway, good for you for having that type of cash to throw around. Other than that, I don't know what to tell you aside from what has been stated already. There are people who have waited for a few months on this item (I waited only 3 days so you can easily turn around and sell this to someone else I'd think.

I do agree that a number pad would be nice too... I don't agree that the keyboard is poorly designed. If you use it in a sitting, it does work nicely to have the flat surface to rest your wrists on. For me anyhow. And even for Mini-Me. If you have a problem, you are in the minority. On the other hand, I DO prefer a regular keyboard when I use this in a desktop setting, and I DO have one that I use in place and I also DO agree that a docking station would be a nice plus as someone else stated. All in all, not sure how we can help you. Thanks though for sharing your negative feedback with us, it really helps us out to hear from people like you. Thanks for your time, you've made a difference in our lives. I am sure your mother is proud of you.

Rey.
     
icruise
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Mar 28, 2003, 02:31 PM
 
Originally posted by lothar154:
Your getting tired because your facts are wrong.


Name one thing I got wrong.



P.S. Sony has had the built in wireless for 2 years. Go to their site, go to Cnet.com and look at reviews.
I am aware of this. However, that has nothing to do with what we are discussing here.

Point 1: Apple has the only laptop with 802.11g

Point 2: Apple was the first to include internal wireless lan in their laptops (this was about 4 years ago with the introduction of the first ibooks).

Understand?
     
lothar154  (op)
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Mar 28, 2003, 02:32 PM
 
Well put friend, well put.

I do like macs (after all I did buy one).

This is about constructive (yes constructive) criticism to make Macs better so that they can take a bigger chunk out of evil Microsofts market share.

Wake up people.



Originally posted by jamez bond:
WTF!
This is a bit rubish, really...Can't people see the value of a second button on the trackpad?
I really, really don't think this is a lot to ask for by a user that has just shelled out a considerable amount of money for a new laptop.
And to the ones that think apple does this as a design feature, or keeps this as an "original" feature of the mac....wake up from your heavy mac-coma. To place a button like this, and make the one you already have work even better, would be a doddle. Seriously!

The machine is almost perfect, so it is ok that they have not included some very nice features??? WTF Again!
If I go to clients saying that this new thingie I have designed is almost perfect, they will like to know why it is not PERFECT!.

Guess this winds me up a bit, so I will leave it with that....come on. We all love macs, but we have to be able to point out missing features, and not just follow the leader blindly.

Anyone want to fight, maybe?
     
PeterKG
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Mar 28, 2003, 02:35 PM
 
Originally posted by Icruise:
Your attitude makes me wonder if you are not just trolling, but for the heck of it I will respond.
From this persons first post you would have thought that he owned a 17" Powerbook. But every post afterward shows he doesn't.

You don't spend the kind of money required to purchase a 17" Powerbook, to come here and make the remarks this person has made regarding the Mac platform, or the design of this model notebook.

This person IS a troll. No doubt about it.
     
lothar154  (op)
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Mar 28, 2003, 02:37 PM
 
Originally posted by Icruise:


Name one thing I got wrong.


Just one? Your comparison of P4 vs G4 for one, your upgrading to 2 Gig of Ram (not going to happen). Size of pc laptops (.77 sony) etc.

802.11g - congratulations. How many places have the capability to transmit at that anyway. So usefull when hardly anyone has a signal that transmits at that speed anyway. PC will come out with it when there is a demand for it and the infrastructure to implement it on any kind of scale. LOL


Maybe I should try and make my responses "kid friendly" so you can understand.


I am aware of this. However, that has nothing to do with what we are discussing here.

Point 1: Apple has the only laptop with 802.11g

Point 2: Apple was the first to include internal wireless lan in their laptops (this was about 4 years ago with the introduction of the first ibooks).

Understand? [/B]
     
lothar154  (op)
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Mar 28, 2003, 02:39 PM
 
LMFAO

What is this, Iraq? Are you Sadaam Hussien? Because I have a critical opnion of a product I must not own it? Is this Apple ideology???

LOL

I have many negative things about PC's that I can get into (and I do on PC forums).

Learn to take constructive criticism.




Originally posted by PeterKG:
From this persons first post you would have thought that he owned a 17" Powerbook. But every post afterward shows he doesn't.

You don't spend the kind of money required to purchase a 17" Powerbook, to come here and make the remarks this person has made regarding the Mac platform, or the design of this model notebook.

This person IS a troll. No doubt about it.
     
icruise
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Mar 28, 2003, 02:39 PM
 
Name one thing I got wrong.


Just one? Your comparison of P4 vs G4 for one, your upgrading to 2 Gig of Ram (not going to happen). Size of pc laptops (.77 sony) etc



I think you are confusing me with someone else, because I didn't mention processors or thickness. Although I don't agree that they are mistakes...
     
lothar154  (op)
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Mar 28, 2003, 02:44 PM
 
Again, your facts are all wrong. God, please read and educate yourself before making claims.

There are at least 4 PC laptops with internal DVD RW (almost all have the option of DVD R (which only reads DVD)).

IBM has a DVDRW model so does HP, Compaq, Acer and even more.

This started as a minor whine about a very good product. Then everyone wanted to inaccurately bash the PC and I took defense. Everyone needs to take a chill pill.


Originally posted by forcelite:
I can guarentee that your sony doesnt come out of stanby in 2 seconds. I have a dell and it takes at least 8 seconds of button clicking to get the thing to wake up.

Also yes the powerbook has the slowst dvd-r but it is the ONLY one with a dvd-r, so whats better, none or the slowest?

Also you are pointing back and forth between differenet notebooks to prove pc's are better, you say sony this Hp this. The fact is that the 17' has a ton of great features.

I am not a super mac person either I just know a good product when I see one.
     
gdiddy
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Mar 28, 2003, 02:46 PM
 
Ummmm, not to be a smart ass here but did you do any research before you bought the thing? All of these issues you have with the machine are not some kind of supprise! Apples incredible lack of bells and whistles is documented in all of the sales materials. If you wanted a two button mouse pad, scroll button, quick launch button, can opener, nail clippers and bottle opener built into your machine you bought the wrong one!

Must be nice to be able to throw $3,500 around without doing any research!
Michael: Hasn't everything been sort of discovered now by like Magellan and Cortez?

Buster: Oh, yeah yeah, those guys did a pretty good job.
     
lothar154  (op)
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Mar 28, 2003, 02:48 PM
 
By the way you can gurantee my sony doesnt come out of standby in 2 seconds? Yet you own a dell? That is meaningless.

I have a 800 Mhz Sony VX 88 PIII 512 mb of ram with built in Wi/Fi. Find someone else that has one and ask them. LOL

I don't know what your dell does. You should own a Sony, apparently.

Originally posted by lothar154:
Again, your facts are all wrong. God, please read and educate yourself before making claims.

There are at least 4 PC laptops with internal DVD RW (almost all have the option of DVD R (which only reads DVD)).

IBM has a DVDRW model so does HP, Compaq, Acer and even more.

This started as a minor whine about a very good product. Then everyone wanted to inaccurately bash the PC and I took defense. Everyone needs to take a chill pill.
     
tonewheel
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Mar 28, 2003, 02:48 PM
 
"God, please read and educate yourself before making claims."

Same can be said about buying before trying.
     
lothar154  (op)
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Mar 28, 2003, 02:50 PM
 
I did plenty of research. Please read my original post and take a chill pill.

Why is 2 buttons and a scroll pad too much to ask for ? Steve Jobs? Get with the program people.



Originally posted by gdiddy:
Ummmm, not to be a smart ass here but did you do any research before you bought the thing? All of these issues you have with the machine are not some kind of supprise! Apples incredible lack of bells and whistles is documented in all of the sales materials. If you wanted a two button mouse pad, scroll button, quick launch button, can opener, nail clippers and bottle opener built into your machine you bought the wrong one!

Must be nice to be able to throw $3,500 around without doing any research!
     
icruise
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Mar 28, 2003, 02:51 PM
 
Originally posted by lothar154:
Again, your facts are all wrong. God, please read and educate yourself before making claims.

There are at least 4 PC laptops with internal DVD RW


Yes. Sony had the first laptop with an internal DVD burner.


This started as a minor whine about a very good product. Then everyone wanted to inaccurately bash the PC and I took defense. Everyone needs to take a chill pill.
I think you need to look at your own attitude and motives for posting before blaming others. I find that people here are open to discussion and we above all know that there are faults with the Mac. But I don't think you have the right to be upset at our reaction when you coach your criticism the way you do.
     
lothar154  (op)
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Mar 28, 2003, 02:52 PM
 
LOL

Read my original post. I knew what was coming. Doesn't make it any less unreasonable. I chose the G4 because of its balance of capabilities that made it a good choice. Nothing is perfect - and the G4 is far from it - just like every other PC and Apple laptop is. My point is that there are minor issues plaguing Apple for decades. Once they get with the program they will finally start to take a chunk out of market share.



Originally posted by tonewheel:
"God, please read and educate yourself before making claims."

Same can be said about buying before trying.
     
lothar154  (op)
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Mar 28, 2003, 02:55 PM
 
Please stop posting platitudes (meaningless statements).

Please also stop posting inaccurate statements. Sony was not the first with internal DVD /RW (it doesn't even have one now).

My criticism is based in response to unwarrented criticism of my issues which are general issue plaguing Apple for years. Instead of acknowledging valid criticism you all have decided to attack my motives, knowledge and even whether I own the product.

LOL

Look in the mirror whose criticism is "coached." (not even the appropriate use of that word).



Originally posted by Icruise:


Yes. Sony had the first laptop with an internal DVD burner.



I think you need to look at your own attitude and motives for posting before blaming others. I find that people here are open to discussion and we above all know that there are faults with the Mac. But I don't think you have the right to be upset at our reaction when you coach your criticism the way you do. [/B]
     
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Mar 28, 2003, 02:55 PM
 
Quotes removed from this troll.

- He doesn't even own the laptop he is bashing.
- Must be a Sony representative out for a sTROLl.

:O)

hole.
...
     
lothar154  (op)
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Mar 28, 2003, 03:00 PM
 
LOL

I hate Sony - they have srewed me over so many times - but some of their laptops are good.

Bottom line: can't take the heat then get out of the kitchen. I am such a threat that i must be from Sony?

LOL

You people crack me up.

Oh and btw work pays for my laptop - our new owner is a big mac fan. I feel privaleged to have two perspectives. Perhaps all you that have flamed my origina post should get a different perspective before you bash.

Whose the A-hole now?

LOL


Originally posted by ghost_flash:
Quotes removed from this troll.

- He doesn't even own the laptop he is bashing.
- Must be a Sony representative out for a sTROLl.

:O)

hole.
     
ghost_flash
Professional Poster
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Mar 28, 2003, 03:13 PM
 
Well, let me begin by saying again. You are the A-hole.

You hate sony? Great for you, then why promote their products?
You make no sense except when viewed as a troll, and then it makes perfect sense for your being here.

All of your posts are here:
http://forums.macnn.com/search.php?s...earchid=199302

You should write a book, on how to win friends and influence people.
No, really. ("Not") lol.

Heat? Kitchen? You sure you are in the right place? Maybe you need to go to HGTV, or the FOOD network....

Threat? Not to me or any of "US", but you are making a strong argument for the ignore feature.

If you ever in the future have an intelligent post with a serious question, I'm sure "WE" as in "US" will be happy to anwer it or point you in the right direction.

You're work bought you that nice new shiny laptop? Congrat's, they just wasted all that money on an A-hole.

Furthermore, I've used a PC for 12 years prior to switching to the MAC, and have ample understanding of both platforms in order to arrive at intelligent and constructive oppinions on the both of them, but as in my original thread stated, I only mentioned why it was the best choice for me.

I will tell you another thing. Take your boss out for a BIG-MAC and then remember to take your lips off of his long enough to eat lunch.
Okay there sparky?

Uhm oh yeah... lol. < Whatever >.

::: TROLL ::: bump.


Originally posted by lothar154:
LOL

I hate Sony - they have srewed me over so many times - but some of their laptops are good.

Bottom line: can't take the heat then get out of the kitchen. I am such a threat that i must be from Sony?

LOL

You people crack me up.

Oh and btw work pays for my laptop - our new owner is a big mac fan. I feel privaleged to have two perspectives. Perhaps all you that have flamed my origina post should get a different perspective before you bash.

Whose the A-hole now?

LOL
...
     
MusicalTone
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Mar 28, 2003, 03:18 PM
 
I am a mixer, i.e. still use my WinXpPro Sony Vaio 14" with trackpad scrollwheel and two button vaio mini mouse with scrolwheel too, as well as my recently acquired pride a joy 15" 1Ghz SD. Initially I missed my 'scrollwheels' on the mac (I was using the Apple Pro Mouse), and eventually bought a MacAlly 2 buton scrollwheel mouse. All told on balance the 2 button with scrollwheel is probably a better solution than control-clicking, arrow keys, spacebar or any other variation for scrolling windows, as you dont have to move your hand at all and can just sit back in your chair and scroll and click away. The built in Sony trackpad scrollwheel I dont really miss at all. Having said that, the Apple Pro mouse is a joy to use and hold, and after several weeks of using both I am comming to prefer the simple apple solution and use control or arrow keys for page scrolling. In the end my feeling is it is a bit like driving on the other side of the road, at first you hate it because the gear stick isnt where you were used to, etc. but after a while you come to accept it and get on with life, and stop swearing at the other vehicles on the road. What I would say, three weeks into my mac experience is that on balance I find the Appple OSX/15" SD experience far far richer and more rewarding than that of my old WinXpPro/Sony Vaio. Jumping back an forth between the two, Apple for me is more like a top of the range Merc compared to Windows hot rod subaru with bucket seats. To the guy who started this thread I would say 'chill man, you are in a different class of vehicle, sit back enjoy the ride, and keep your eyes wide open to what is new and good about the Apple experience, not what you missed from your old rig'. OS's are a bit like foreign languages/cultures, they may seem inadequate and disconcerting at first but given bit of time and effort can be infinately worth it, opening you up to a whole world of different possibilities.
Antonio
( Last edited by MusicalTone; Mar 28, 2003 at 03:27 PM. )
     
makkystyle
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Mar 28, 2003, 03:22 PM
 
lothar, i can't believe i am actually replying to this because it is so painfully obvious that you "switched" for all the wrong reasons did not do even a basic amount of homework about the product (i.e. your dislike of the 17 inch screen you purchased and the missing mouse button see:
2. 17" screen

Yes, big screen. As a consequence the unit is very big and harder to carry around situate (especialy on an air plane (notice how in the commercial the 17 inch never is put on one of the seat back trays... it doesnt fit that well. Do you really need 17 inches? No, you need 2 mouse buttons.
). If you are not happy with the product, too bad. You should have done more research about the product you were spending "$3800" on. Instead you just blindly followed a marketing campaign rather than thinking about what you were buying. After all the whining you have done on here I am actually pleased that you are so pissed off about the decision. Next time you start a thread why not make it about something constructive.
     
macnnhelpme
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Mar 28, 2003, 03:23 PM
 
Lothar, you made a classic mistake, and that was to come here and bash an Apple product stating it does nothing better than a Windows laptop. Most Mac fans here are very loyal to the brand, which is particially the reason you are getting the responses. The other reason is you are borderline trolling.

Someone else said it best, there is no such thing as a perfect machine for all people. And for the record I too can't believe that Apple hasn't adopted a two-button pad on their latest powerbook (or even the Powermac line for that matter) but that will change eventually.

If you don't like it, don't keep it, but please don't post this kind of stuff here thinking you aren't going to get some flames.
     
icruise
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Location: Illinois
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Mar 28, 2003, 03:24 PM
 
Originally posted by lothar154:
Please stop posting platitudes (meaningless statements).

Please also stop posting inaccurate statements. Sony was not the first with internal DVD /RW (it doesn't even have one now).

Oh really?

"Today, Sony announced the first notebooks equipped with DVD-R/RW drives."

The whole article is here .


As for whether they have one with an internal DVD burner now, you might want to check out this page with the title "Mobile DVD Burning" at sonystyle.com.

You attack me even when I'm trying to agree with you, dude.

Look in the mirror whose criticism is "coached." (not even the appropriate use of that word).
     
AssassyN
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Mar 28, 2003, 03:36 PM
 
*refrains from any further posts on this topic because I was initially trying to have a logical and sensible debate, but this is way out of hand*
5G 60GB video iPod
512MB iPod Shuffle
Westone UM1 Canalphones
     
 
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