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pliny · Jan 14, 2003, 09:54 AM

Following negative public criticism that Apple would charge $50 for its suite of iApps, Apple CEO Steve Jobs decided some four days before his keynote address at Macworld Expo in San Francisco to give away two software applications for free, company sources have confirmed.

Think Secret has been told by a number of sources within Apple and outside the company that it was only after receiving negative e-mail and reading online message board traffic critical of Apple's decision to charge for brand new versions of iPhoto 2, iMovie 3, iDVD 3, and the already-available iTunes 3, that Jobs decided to distribute iPhoto and iMovie at no charge. That decision, sources said, came the weekend of January 4. Both Think Secret and CNET News.com broke the story that Apple would charge $50 for the complete iApp suite the afternoon of Friday, January 3 -- five days before the opening keynote address at Expo.

A highly placed Apple source said Jobs and others at Apple were surprised by the overwhelmingly negative reaction to the proposed $50 iApp bundle, but some company executives held firm in wanting to charge for the entire upgrade package. The final decision to give two of Apple's most popular multimedia applications away for free was ultimately made by Jobs himself. According to sources, Apple characterized the majority of e-mail and online posts with one central focus -- "that Apple was nickle-and-diming users to death," an Apple source said.

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Surprised by the "overwhelmingly negative" reaction to charge for normally free apps? Do those guys not get out much or what?

Adam Betts · Jan 14, 2003, 10:01 AM

Originally posted by pliny:
Surprised by the "overwhelmingly negative" reaction to charge for normally free apps? Do those guys not get out much or what?

If I were them, I would be surprised too.

I'm willing to pay $50 for iLife because I think they deserve my money. Apple spent a lot of time on it so they need to get paid.

pliny · Jan 14, 2003, 10:06 AM

Originally posted by Adam Betts:
If I were them, I would be surprised too.

I'm willing to pay $50 for iLife because I think they deserve my money. Apple spent a lot of time on it so they need to get paid.

Heh, yes.

I probably wouldn't have paid for it, I'm just glad they listen. The reaction to the idea of paying for all of them was pretty horrible.

macmike42 · Jan 14, 2003, 10:13 AM

I smell a cover-up rumor!

Think Secret goofed. Big deal. Mr. DePlume (if that *is* your real name), as much flack as you take on the Mac web, your rumors are pretty reliable as far as Mac rumors go. If you're wrong, just fess up.

I mean, seriously, if Apple needed revenue from this, they would have stuck to their guns. Apple is a corporation, but they aren't a brain-damaged corporation. They understand that nickel and diming your existing customers while trying to bring in new ones doesn't work. I think the iLife bundle was announced as originally planned. I don't think Steve said "Um, what are we gonna do to make up for this? I know! Let's throw one of them there iMac screens on a PowerBook. It's BIG!"

mitchell_pgh · Jan 14, 2003, 10:29 AM

There has always been a trade off. More expensive hardware for a great OS (that doesn't cost an arm and a leg to maintain)

I think it was a combination of a few things. Sluggish speeds (not an issue for some, but a real stopping point for others), a recently imposed $129 OS update (for some, it has been less then six months from buying the 10.1 update), the loss of iTools (so many people use iTools for email it's not even funny)...

$50 would have been the clincher for myself and many others. The sad thing is, I probably would have paid.

That being said, Apple has laid the groundwork for a $50+ iLife upgrade the next time around.

KaptainKaya · Jan 14, 2003, 10:31 AM

Apple can't charge for their already great iApps but its ok for MS to charge for their apps?

Moose · Jan 14, 2003, 10:34 AM

Originally posted by macmike42:
Mr. DePlume (if that *is* your real name)

It isn't. It's a not-so-clever play on the French nom de plume for pen name.

Jan 14, 2003, 10:45 AM

Knowing how users reacted to the iTools to .mac switch, I think Apple "leaked" it themselves to find out how people would react and then choose how they charge accordingly.

I'm not the majority around here. I bought .mac and I was all ready to pony up for iLife. To me, $50 isn't bad for all those great apps.

-s'fit

JLL · Jan 14, 2003, 11:02 AM

Originally posted by macmike42:
I smell a cover-up rumor!

So do I.

mrchin · Jan 14, 2003, 11:05 AM

Apple never announced any charge prior to the keynote before. So how could they have been accepting emails in response to their charging prior to them announcing it?

Cipher13 · Jan 14, 2003, 11:23 AM

Cover up rumour? No, I doubt it.

I believe this. I was expecting worse myself. I have no doubt this was a last minute decision.

Xeo · Jan 14, 2003, 11:31 AM

Originally posted by screamingFit:
Knowing how users reacted to the iTools to .mac switch, I think Apple "leaked" it themselves to find out how people would react and then choose how they charge accordingly.

That makes sense. Why else would c|net have written up an article like that? They aren't a rumor site that prints whatever they hear. They must have had good reason.

However, doing it less than a week before the keynote seems a bit odd. If that truly was the plan all along, they could have done it at any moment. Maybe it was done that close to MW on purpose so the keynote was even more a success when Apple was able to surprise and delight everyone with the free iApps.

Moose · Jan 14, 2003, 11:34 AM

Originally posted by mrchin:
Apple never announced any charge prior to the keynote before. So how could they have been accepting emails in response to their charging prior to them announcing it?

Retards who read these (and other) forums read a rumor on a website, get all hot and bothered in the forums, then perform the electronic equivalent of storming the castle with pitchforks and torches, emailing Apple and submitting "feedback." During Jaguar development when they changed the boot logo to a grey Apple, you'd have thought Apple was going to start requiring all Mac OS X users to give up one of their kidneys and half of their livers.

Millennium · Jan 14, 2003, 11:38 AM

Although ThinkSecret's reliability is questionable, I can see this as happenning. Though if you think about it, the pricing structure didn't change at all; the only one which it costs you any money to get is iDVD, which was always the case, and the price on the bundle is no different from the previous price on iDVD.

Which is ironic, given that of the three apps in iLife which got upgrades, only iDVD got too few upgrades to really be worth paying $50 for, unless there's something Steve hasn't told us. I'd have gladly paid for the other two, but unless iDVD is now compatible with non-Apple DVD burners, there's nothing really compelling in that upgrade. A few new themes, and that's about it.

NeXTLoop · Jan 14, 2003, 11:52 AM

During the keynote, I was actually wondering if Apple had changed their minds due to "feedback". There were just too many reputable sites proclaiming that Apple sources had said they would be charging.

Then all of a sudden, Jobs said "free". I'd be willing to bet it was a last-minute decision. Or at the least, as some have said, it was leaked by Apple to "test the waters".

Appleman · Jan 14, 2003, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by Millennium:
... but unless iDVD is now compatible with non-Apple DVD burners, there's nothing really compelling in that upgrade.

I don't understand why they don't give me this option. I just ordered La Cie dvd-burner, but reading at Apple's site, it seems that even iDVD 3 needs a "Apple Superdrive" to work.
Since you have to pay for the program, why the hell do they do this??? I want to be able to burn dvd with my Ti 500, but cannot use iDVD?
So far for compatibility Apple once was famous for

piracy · 12:05 PM

Guy Incognito · Jan 14, 2003, 11:56 AM

iMovie 3 and iDVD 3 would be the apps to get my $50...I can see lots of work went into those apps (especially iMovie 3).

At first, during the rumor swapping, I was skeptical as to why Apple wanted us to pay $50...but iMovie 3 is what made me realize why they want to charge for the bundle.

piracy · 12:05 PM

pliny · Jan 14, 2003, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by screamingFit:
I think Apple "leaked" it themselves to find out how people would react and then choose how they charge accordingly.

-s'fit

Hmmm, I wonder how far we could go with this feedback lowering prices precedent? We can build on the momemtum. Maybe if we send enough emails we can get the price of PowerMacs down to say, oh I don't know, $1.

Appleman · Jan 14, 2003, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by pliny:
Hmmm, I wonder how far we could go with this feedback lowering prices precedent? We can build on the momemtum. Maybe if we send enough emails we can get the price of PowerMacs down to say, oh I don't know, $1.

KidRed · Jan 14, 2003, 01:03 PM

Originally posted by Millennium:
Although ThinkSecret's reliability is questionable, I can see this as happenning. Though if you think about it, the pricing structure didn't change at all; the only one which it costs you any money to get is iDVD, which was always the case, and the price on the bundle is no different from the previous price on iDVD.

Which is ironic, given that of the three apps in iLife which got upgrades, only iDVD got too few upgrades to really be worth paying $50 for, unless there's something Steve hasn't told us. I'd have gladly paid for the other two, but unless iDVD is now compatible with non-Apple DVD burners, there's nothing really compelling in that upgrade. A few new themes, and that's about it.

A few themes, that's about it? Did you watch the keynote? Chapters, that's the big boy. The themes rock and are almost worth the price, it's integration, chapter support and I'm sure there's some other stuff. Concidering it's never been free (without purchasing a mac) I don't have a problem paying $50 just for iDVD. It's a great program that just got better. Any other apps like iDVD on the market? If so, what do they cost?

Eug · Jan 14, 2003, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by KidRed:
A few themes, that's about it? Did you watch the keynote? Chapters, that's the big boy. The themes rock and are almost worth the price, it's integration, chapter support and I'm sure there's some other stuff. Concidering it's never been free (without purchasing a mac) I don't have a problem paying $50 just for iDVD. It's a great program that just got better. Any other apps like iDVD on the market? If so, what do they cost?

Yep. IF what Jobs has said is not misleading, then pretty much 95% of ALL my list of gripes would be directly addressed in the new versions of the iApps.

Though if you think about it, the pricing structure didn't change at all; the only one which it costs you any money to get is iDVD, which was always the case, and the price on the bundle is no different from the previous price on iDVD.

The iMovie update also cost money ($30). Now it's free, so that's a pretty significant change.

[APi]TheMan · Jan 14, 2003, 02:47 PM

Originally posted by Moose:
It isn't. It's a not-so-clever play on the French nom de plume for pen name.

I never would have figured that out.

By the way, I wouldn't have paid for iLife.

Originally posted by KaptainKaya:
Apple can't charge for their already great iApps but its ok for MS to charge for their apps?

That's an interesting but true point. I guess us Mac users whine and complain a lot with the release of paid upgrades by Apple. I never complain, I just make good with what software I have, then if I can fit it into my starving student budget, I do.

Mac Write · Jan 14, 2003, 02:48 PM

One problem if we did have to pay for the iLife bundle, and didn't get iPhoto and iMovie free, alot of pople wouldn't have been able to buy it due to it being on DVD.

Even Mac's shipping today don't have DVD-ROM's, so that would have prevented sales right there.

Altought it might have been 2 CD's.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Jan 14, 2003, 03:35 PM

Like Eug said iMovie 2 cost, now it is free, iTunes is available on the website and isn't even upgraded for iLife so I can't see them charging for it.

I think Thinksecret is trying to cover its butt.

Next it is going to come out with an article saying that in November Apple added the slot loading superdrives 4 days before the keynote because ThinkSecret was 100% sure that Superdrive Ti's would not ship till later in 2003.

Uh huh.

Either way Apple would have deserved $49 for iLife.

mitchell_pgh · Jan 14, 2003, 04:44 PM

I wonder why they didn't throw Safari and iChat into iLife?

Perhaps we will see an iOrganize or something with iChat, Mail, Safari, iCal and Address Book (or something strange like that)

I want Video with iChat (and a Windows client)

Superchicken · Jan 14, 2003, 05:08 PM

Most likely Jobs remembered the outrage from the mac community over .mac and heard all the people complaining about it, and was kinda like... well we give em iPhoto, iMovie, iTunes, iSync, iChat, iCal... Safari, Mail, Quicktime... and those are all free but they seem to have forgotten... let's freak out the mac faithful and then they can be thankful for the fact that we DO Built all these free apps.

And I think it worked. Apple leaked some info about charging for everything which to me never made sense because iPhoto is not THAT amazing of an app... althouth iTunes is... iMovie and iDVD stand alone I would have believed much sooner than throwing iPhoto in there heh.
It's all about hyping. Not to mention people are much more happy now that they're getting these AWSOME apps... AND THEY"RE FREE!

Nebagakid · Jan 14, 2003, 06:09 PM

the DVD would be for the iDVD themes

they did a good thing, with the charging, I mean, it is really getting 50 bucks from people with SuperDrives (the one who are already the big spenders) and giving it away with all new computers.... It is a one time revenue thing, I believe...

kcmac · Jan 14, 2003, 07:53 PM

Apple did the right thing for us. How much would the bundle had cost otherwise? $99? $150?

I am most impressed by Apple's rebranding of the digital package. We had all of these apps before. Now they will work better together and come as a suite.

I think this complete package will make those that don't have all parts of the jigsaw puzzle quickly wish they did. iLife apps are truly powerful as a group.

I can't wait to start placing my photos onto DVD's, making DVD's with iMovie, using the Ken Burn's effect in iMovie with the ease of getting photos from iPhoto, etc. iTunes glues them all together by placing music easily into each.

I can't believe that to have all 4 it only costs $50! The Office suite costs over $400. Yes it is probably more productive from a business world perspective and is seriously escalated due to the monopoly.

However, when my family and I get older what will we want to look at and reflect on. A powerpoint presentation? A spreadsheet? A word document? A killer email?

Hell no. We will be looking at photographs, movies, etc.

This makes iLife priceless in my eyes and certainly worth more than Apple is charging us at this time.

karbon · Jan 14, 2003, 08:03 PM

Originally posted by Nebagakid:
the DVD would be for the iDVD themes

they did a good thing, with the charging, I mean, it is really getting 50 bucks from people with SuperDrives (the one who are already the big spenders) and giving it away with all new computers.... It is a one time revenue thing, I believe...

Actually I was surprised that Steve didn't mention the fact that MPEG-2 converters cost money. That's a pretty good excuse for selling iDVD.

bradoesch · Jan 15, 2003, 12:23 AM

If Apple brought out something new and wanted to charge for it, that's absolutely fine with me. I have no trouble with Keynote being a paid program right from the start. But when they give it away free and you use and depend on stuff, boy, it sure sucks when they start charging for it. That's what really gets me. That's why I was upset about .Mac. I can see the money issue, but I just wish they didn't tease us with iTools. BTW, I bought .Mac.

Brad

kcmac · Jan 15, 2003, 02:17 AM

You make good points brad.

But it's not like the earlier versions quit working all of a sudden when a new version comes out. In fact, a lot of folks are still using old computers and OS8 and 9 versions.

I saw today where a student from Duke said they are still using Windows 95.

At some point, Apple has to charge for these apps and other new ones they are going to release if they want to keep up the pace they are at today. We have always paid a little more for our macs and for good reasons. (Actually, I have never felt like it was the original computer that cost me that much, it is all the other stuff I want to get after making a new purchase! But that's another story.)

I think when we see the faster processors and if they go over well, Apple will start to charge for more apps and other services.

The timing ain't so good right now to employ that strategy. Apple showed us they understand this. I can't actually remember a more exciting time to be a mac fan.