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Dark Helmet · Dec 4, 2006, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by icruise

It's amazing to think that Sony only stopped production of the PS1 (PSOne) this year.

Yup they also plan on supporting the PS2 for much much longer unlike Microsoft and Nintendo who just ditch the old system when the new comes out.

icruise · Dec 4, 2006, 05:29 PM

I assume you meant "like Microsoft and Nintendo."

Actually Nintendo is doing a pretty good job now, considering that they have pretty much 100% GC compatibility with the Wii and also have Virtual Console games (admittedly you have to buy them again even if you have them in cartridge form, so it's not really backward compatibility).

I'm still rather surprised at how quickly Microsoft abandoned the Xbox 1. You can't buy them new anymore and a lot of games will probably never be compatible with the 360. It's sad, really.

Dark Helmet · 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by icruise

I assume you meant "like Microsoft and Nintendo."

Actually Nintendo is doing a pretty good job now, considering that they have pretty much 100% GC compatibility with the Wii and also have Virtual Console games (admittedly you have to buy them again even if you have them in cartridge form, so it's not really backward compatibility).

I'm still rather surprised at how quickly Microsoft abandoned the Xbox 1. You can't buy them new anymore and a lot of games will probably never be compatible with the 360. It's sad, really.

I did, sorry.

The GC BC is a bit of a piss off though as you have to use the old wired controllers. The VC doesn't count as you have to buy them again.

At any rate for those who don't have the Wii new GC games are going to fall off the map which isn't good for the 25 million GC owners.

The 1 thing that I HATE about the 360 is the piss poor BC compatibility and updates.

itai195 · Dec 4, 2006, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

At any rate for those who don't have the Wii new GC games are going to fall off the map which isn't good for the 25 million GC owners.

There already haven't been many new GC games the last couple of years.

ink · Dec 4, 2006, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar²

But seriously, did anyone really believe or care about Sony's claim. That is, outside of you, apparently.

They have to, in order to get it classified as a "computer" for tax reasons in certain countries. Otherwise, the PS3 would be subject to higher taxes as a luxury item.

icruise · Dec 4, 2006, 05:45 PM

Really? That's interesting. I seem to recall the PS2 being subject to export restrictions because of its status as a "supercomputer" or some nonsense.

Eug Wanker · Dec 4, 2006, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Well good for the Xbox but this argument is rather wonkey to begin with.

My point was that although the PPE core isn't the greatest general purpose core, 3 mediocre cores is better than one slightly faster clocked one. Each of the three PPE cores in the 360 is basically the same as the one PPE core in the PS3, and we already know that Linux runs relatively OK on just one PPE core of the PS3.

ie. If you compiled a general purpose OS for the Xbox 360, it would probably run as fast as a Dual G4 1.x GHz Power Mac in terms of general feel with business applications.

Dakar² · Dec 4, 2006, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by ink

They have to, in order to get it classified as a "computer" for tax reasons in certain countries. Otherwise, the PS3 would be subject to higher taxes as a luxury item.

Beaurocrats and Sony employees don't count as people.

Dark Helmet · Dec 4, 2006, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by icruise

Really? That's interesting. I seem to recall the PS2 being subject to export restrictions because of its status as a "supercomputer" or some nonsense.

So was the first G4.

OB1 · Dec 4, 2006, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

The GC BC is a bit of a piss off though as you have to use the old wired controllers.

That's a good point... Do Wavebirds work on Wii?

Dark Helmet · Dec 4, 2006, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by OB1

That's a good point... Do Wavebirds work on Wii?

Ya but not till you fire up a game and don't work in the WIi menues. Even then you have the ugly adapter sticking out the top of the Wii and I never liked the GC controllers to begin with.

goMac · Dec 4, 2006, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Ya but not till you fire up a game and don't work in the WIi menues. Even then you have the ugly adapter sticking out the top of the Wii and I never liked the GC controllers to begin with.

In other words, I could use the wireless Gamecube controllers, but I don't want to, so I'm going to complain about having to use the wired controllers.

Peter · Dec 4, 2006, 07:55 PM

got viva pinata yesterday, ohmygosh it owns.
Amazing graphics too... like, better than GoW!

itai195 · Dec 4, 2006, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

In other words, I could use the wireless Gamecube controllers, but I don't want to, so I'm going to complain about having to use the wired controllers.

Well, there is a point there in that GCN BC should work through the classic controller. All these different controllers required for every little thing... thought the Wii was supposed to be for casual gamers?

Eug Wanker · Dec 4, 2006, 08:52 PM

Originally Posted by Peter

got viva pinata yesterday, ohmygosh it owns.
Amazing graphics too... like, better than GoW!

It looked amusing, but I was under the impression that it was built as a kids game and after the initial coolness, it got less interesting quickly.

Or at least that was what I read online somewhere. Is that false in your opinion?

Peter · Dec 4, 2006, 09:41 PM

definatley.
its a really fun, deep game. I'd actually say that this had more chance of GOTY than GoW...

Jawbone54 · Dec 5, 2006, 12:32 AM

Originally Posted by Peter

definatley.
its a really fun, deep game. I'd actually say that this had more chance of GOTY than GoW...

I wouldn't like the odds on that one.

Dark Helmet · Dec 5, 2006, 12:50 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

In other words, I could use the wireless Gamecube controllers, but I don't want to, so I'm going to complain about having to use the wired controllers.

In other words I sold my gamecube so I would have to buy GC controllers again but I also would think I could buy the "Classic controller" with dual analog sticks.. but wait... it doesn't work.

goMac · Dec 5, 2006, 01:46 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

In other words I sold my gamecube so I would have to buy GC controllers again but I also would think I could buy the "Classic controller" with dual analog sticks.. but wait... it doesn't work.

Why did you do that? It was known ahead of time the Classic controllers wouldn't work for Cube games. There was even a debate here on the topic.

I gave my Cube away and I still have a few Cube games around. At some point maybe I'll pick up a few more Cube controllers, but it's no big deal.

If Nintendo patches the Wii to provide support for the Gamecube controllers, that will be fine. Otherwise, I understand the technical reasons why bluetooth based controllers won't work.

Gamoe · Dec 5, 2006, 06:21 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

In other words I sold my gamecube so I would have to buy GC controllers again but I also would think I could buy the "Classic controller" with dual analog sticks.. but wait... it doesn't work.

But why are you still on this? I, too, am disappointed by the lack of Classic controller functionality in GameCube games, but I decided to get a couple of wavebirds and it works just fine. The perfect solution? No. But it works.

icruise · Dec 5, 2006, 08:07 AM

Well, my PS3 shipped. I should have it today or tomorrow. It's just a 20GB model, but the more I think about it, the less I think the difference between the two models is significant. The card reader is pretty meaningless, since you can use a USB reader, and the chrome on the 60GB model arguably makes the console look worse than having it be all black. The wireless on the 60GB would have been nice for the PSP connectivity, but I just can't see myself using the PS3 as a server for photos or video, so it would've been something that I tried once or twice and forgot about. You can still connect the PSP with a USB cable for downloading PS1 games or for connecting to future PS3 games (I believe). And since the hard drive is easily upgradable, I don't even have to worry too much about running out of space.

I'll post some impressions after I get it and have a chance to play around with it. These last couple weeks have just been crazy. Two console launches with 2 days of each other. I've been thinking recently that this is just an amazing time to be a gamer. We have 3 outstanding portable systems and 3 console systems, not to mention the 3 last-gen systems.

Gamoe · Dec 5, 2006, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by icruise

I've been thinking recently that this is just an amazing time to be a gamer. We have 3 outstanding portable systems and 3 console systems, not to mention the 3 last-gen systems.

If it weren't for the Wii, that should have been amended with "unless you don't have a lot of disposable income." But, you're right. It's nice to have choices and the three consoles each offer their own thing, though I still wish M$ trying to dominate in yet another industry.

As for the portables, I guess you're still counting the GBA, which is fair, but is surely not the future.

icruise · Dec 5, 2006, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales

If it weren't for the Wii, that should have been amended with "unless you don't have a lot of disposable income." But, you're right. It's nice to have choices and the three consoles each offer their own thing, though I still wish M$ trying to dominate in yet another industry.

While I agree that the next-gen consoles have priced themselves out of many people's reach, you also have to agree that the DS, PSP and PS2 offer some pretty good lower-priced alternatives.

As for the portables, I guess you're still counting the GBA, which is fair, but is surely not the future.

Well, it's still a current system and seems to be selling pretty well even though new releases are slowing to a trickle.

starman · Dec 5, 2006, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by Peter

definatley.
its a really fun, deep game. I'd actually say that this had more chance of GOTY than GoW...

Um, no.

starman · Dec 5, 2006, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by icruise

Well, my PS3 shipped. I should have it today or tomorrow. It's just a 20GB model, but the more I think about it, the less I think the difference between the two models is significant. The card reader is pretty meaningless, since you can use a USB reader, and the chrome on the 60GB model arguably makes the console look worse than having it be all black. The wireless on the 60GB would have been nice for the PSP connectivity, but I just can't see myself using the PS3 as a server for photos or video, so it would've been something that I tried once or twice and forgot about. You can still connect the PSP with a USB cable for downloading PS1 games or for connecting to future PS3 games (I believe). And since the hard drive is easily upgradable, I don't even have to worry too much about running out of space.

I'll post some impressions after I get it and have a chance to play around with it. These last couple weeks have just been crazy. Two console launches with 2 days of each other. I've been thinking recently that this is just an amazing time to be a gamer. We have 3 outstanding portable systems and 3 console systems, not to mention the 3 last-gen systems.

My original Dazzle USB reader did NOT work with the 20GB. Grab the $30 Sony 17-in-one reader.

Dark Helmet · Dec 5, 2006, 12:33 PM

"What will happen between then and now is that Sony will introduce a series of firmware upgrades that will give the PS3 more media centre capability while allowing for the introduction of third party applications and hardware "Such as interactive controllers" similar to the Nintendo Wii he said."

Smarthouse - Console

That's the problem I saw coming from day one. Pretty much Sony can exactly copy or improve on a Wii controller that works on the PS3. Then it just comes down to price and game library.

Dakar² · Dec 5, 2006, 12:35 PM

They'd better do more than just copy it.

I can't wait to see the beating the Nintendo boys give Sony should they actually add that functionality, though.

goMac · Dec 5, 2006, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar²

They'd better do more than just copy it.

I can't wait to see the beating the Nintendo boys give Sony should they actually add that functionality, though.

Not to mention the lawyers knocking on Sony's door.

starman · Dec 5, 2006, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

Not to mention the lawyers knocking on Sony's door.

Um, why? Sony or Nintendo aren't the first to do that.

goMac · Dec 5, 2006, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by starman

Um, why? Sony or Nintendo aren't the first to do that.

The setup Nintendo has on their controllers to make them work is unique and does have a patent pending. If Sony wants to do the same they'll have to do it in a less than optimal way to keep from walking on Nintendo's patents.

This is pretty much an admission by Sony that the Wiimote isn't that much of a gimmick.

(I'd also like to see the complaints when Sony forces people to buy two kinds of controllers on top of the PS3's $600 price tag.)

Dakar² · Dec 5, 2006, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

Not to mention the lawyers knocking on Sony's door.

Case in point.

starman · Dec 5, 2006, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

The setup Nintendo has on their controllers to make them work is unique and does have a patent pending. If Sony wants to do the same they'll have to do it in a less than optimal way to keep from walking on Nintendo's patents.

This is pretty much an admission by Sony that the Wiimote isn't that much of a gimmick.

(I'd also like to see the complaints when Sony forces people to buy two kinds of controllers on top of the PS3's $600 price tag.)

Again, know your history.

Sony WAS going to release an addon for Mercury for the PSP which does motion detection, LONG before N announced their new controller. So, this isn't anything new for Sony. We'll have to see what Sony comes up with.

goMac · Dec 5, 2006, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by starman

Again, know your history.

Sony WAS going to release an addon for Mercury for the PSP which does motion detection, LONG before N announced their new controller. So, this isn't anything new for Sony. We'll have to see what Sony comes up with.

Combinations of technologies are patentable, and I highly doubt the PSP was using IR for it's motion sensing.

itai195 · Dec 5, 2006, 01:21 PM

The Wii remote isn't using IR for motion sensing either.

goMac · Dec 5, 2006, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by itai195

The Wii remote isn't using IR for motion sensing either.

It's using it for pointing, which I'd assume Sony would want to copy too. Otherwise, the Six Axis already does motion sensing, even if it isn't quite as elegant.

itai195 · Dec 5, 2006, 01:26 PM

Ok I see what your point is

starman · Dec 5, 2006, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

Combinations of technologies are patentable, and I highly doubt the PSP was using IR for it's motion sensing.

No kidding. Why would it use IR to check on its own positioning? Duh.

Dark Helmet · Dec 5, 2006, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by itai195

The Wii remote isn't using IR for motion sensing either.

It does in the flying level I mentioned in Zelda. Not motion sensing but you tilt and point the cursor where you want to fly.

itai195 · Dec 5, 2006, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

It does in the flying level I mentioned in Zelda. Not motion sensing but you tilt and point the cursor where you want to fly.

I haven't gotten there yet, but the IR in that application is most likely used just to determine where you're pointing. As goMac said though, it's the combination of IR and motion sensing that probably is significant here, though I'm not a patent lawyer (thank god)

icruise · Dec 5, 2006, 04:43 PM

I've been reading more about Sony's implementation of PS1 games on the PSP. The initial service isn't the most user-friendly, since you need both a PS3 and a PSP just to download the games, and you can only play them on the PSP at the moment. Plus they only have about 6 games available, but these are all issues that will be fixed in time. Apparently the games play and look great on the PSP. They are also only $5.99, which makes Nintendo's pricing look pretty high, especially when you consider the fact that Sony's games will eventually be playable on both their home console and portable system.

This made me think -- how cool would it be if you could download your virtual console games to your DS? Nintendo could theoretically release a cartridge of some kind that would contain flash memory, or maybe even an SD card slot. For all of the systems besides the N64, this should be no problem, but I'm not sure that the DS has the horsepower to emulate the N64. I realize that the DS has a fair number of N64 ports in its library, but I believe these have been altered to some degree to help them run on the DS hardware. Still, it's within the realm of possibility, and if it were true I would be a LOT more likely to buy VC games.

starman · Dec 5, 2006, 04:45 PM

That's still only in Japan, right?

icruise · Dec 5, 2006, 05:27 PM

Nope, in the US now too.

Dark Helmet · Dec 5, 2006, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by icruise

I've been reading more about Sony's implementation of PS1 games on the PSP. The initial service isn't the most user-friendly, since you need both a PS3 and a PSP just to download the games, and you can only play them on the PSP at the moment..

Ya it is strange but they are going to remove the PS3 from the equation soon according to them.

Jawbone54 · Dec 5, 2006, 06:44 PM

Just got XBox 360 number two.

I'm begging everyone here - if you hear me talking about THINKING about selling my 360, request my address and send me a bomb in the mail. You'll be saving my wife some time and my life will end with me looking like a victim rather than just an idiot.

As for the matter at hand, the PS1 games need to be playable on the PS3 sooner rather than later. It seems like this might be a cheap ploy to spike PSP sales over the holiday season, but of course that's just a conspiracy theory (nope...true). Regardless, people are going to want to play these games at home, not on a small PSP screen. Seems like an inexplicable move at this point. I'm not sure why they would do that.

Any news on current shipments of PS3/Wii's?

Dark Helmet · Dec 5, 2006, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

Just got XBox 360 number two.

What? Did you really sell the old one to get a Wii and then sell the Wii and get an Xbox again?

Remember my PM if true

icruise · Dec 5, 2006, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

As for the matter at hand, the PS1 games need to be playable on the PS3 sooner rather than later. It seems like this might be a cheap ploy to spike PSP sales over the holiday season, but of course that's just a conspiracy theory (nope...true).

Which part of it is a cheap ploy? The fact that you have to download them on a PS3? How on earth would that spur PSP sales more than just letting people download them directly onto the PSP? I think the problem is simply that Sony was putting all of their energy into getting their PS3 online store ready for the launch and didn't have time to do a PC or PSP version. So for the moment, the only way you can download these games is through the PS3, but that will change.

Regardless, people are going to want to play these games at home, not on a small PSP screen. Seems like an inexplicable move at this point. I'm not sure why they would do that.

I think the demand for playing PS1 games on a portable is a lot bigger than the demand for playing downloadable PS1 games on the PS3. Remember that the PS3 can already play PS1 games if you have the disc. It's being able to play these games on the PSP that has people excited (at that's true with me, and seems to hold true from what I have read).

Dec 5, 2006, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

Just got XBox 360 number two.

Dude, that's just plain nuts.

Sounds like something I'd do

Jawbone54 · Dec 5, 2006, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

What? Did you really sell the old one to get a Wii and then sell the Wii and get an Xbox again?

Remember my PM if true

T'is true...t'is. And I promise you, this is the last one. And by the way, I'm finding help.

Jawbone54 · Dec 5, 2006, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by screamingFit

Dude, that's just plain nuts.

Sounds like something I'd do

I've done it around 20 times. I'm mocked publicly quite often for this.

Jawbone54 · Dec 5, 2006, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by icruise

Which part of it is a cheap ploy?

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

As for the matter at hand, the PS1 games need to be playable on the PS3 sooner rather than later. It seems like this might be a cheap ploy to spike PSP sales over the holiday season, but of course that's just a conspiracy theory (nope...true).