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KellyHogan · Jun 10, 2002, 03:19 AM

<a href="http://www.theprogressive.org/webex/wxmc042702.html" target="_blank">http://www.theprogressive.org/webex/wxmc042702.html</a>

The Dude · Jun 10, 2002, 06:01 AM

Yea, the US will be gone in 50 years. You watch, it'll happen.

boots · Jun 10, 2002, 08:06 AM

There was a similar piece on NPR about a week ago. Yes, this is problematic. No, I don't know what the answer is. I know the answer ISN'T whatecver the current policy is...it lacks room for human judgement in situations that are not black & white. That a list exists is not, in itself, bad. That it is being used as it currently is....that's the problem.

Mac Guru · Jun 10, 2002, 09:36 AM

Do my eyes decieve me or did Kelly Hogan post something that had some substance?

Mac Guru

Lerkfish · Jun 10, 2002, 10:41 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Mac Guru:
Do my eyes decieve me or did Kelly Hogan post something that had some substance?

Mac Guru<hr /></blockquote>no, he sometimes has very good links (which is all this thread starts with). He has not actually posted any of his thoughts yet, so "substance" might be a bit premature to determine.

BOT -- I think this is potentially a bad thing, mainly because it appears the local constabulary were getting as frustrated as the passengers. Everyone should have been informed as to what was precisely going on.

I think its a stretch though to make the assumption that this was an attempt to interfere with a peaceful protest. It seems to me it was just an overly cautious (or overly zealous) enforcement of a list of possible red flags for potential threats. I think the meeting they were going to was incidental.

The bigger issue is what is on this list and what does it consist of? We're not going to find out, either.

KellyHogan · Jun 10, 2002, 10:49 AM

I got that link off Woody Harrelson...who got arrested her a few days ago. What a funny guy.

Millennium · Jun 10, 2002, 11:04 AM

I find you very interesting, Kelly.

Half the time, you talk about how we should give up our rights to earn a little more security (or that we should slavishly follow the opinion of the rest of the world, as though we weren't individuals with individual beliefs, hopes, and dreams). The other half, you show your common sense and post articles like this. But I don't get this; it's very contradictory.

As for The Dude's bit about "The US being gone in 50 years": It's gone already, for all intents and purposes. Our system is very rapidly degenerating into one that's not worth defending, and I fear the Homeland Security (read: Big Brother) plans will all but seal that deal.

KellyHogan · Jun 10, 2002, 11:11 AM

Anybody watch The Mosquito Coast and understand what it the symbols in it were about?

zigzag · Jun 10, 2002, 11:43 AM

This appears to be the most logical explanation:

"Lisa Bailey, a spokesperson for Midwest Express, says, "As the group checked in, one of the passengers showed up on this list. At that point, the airline got the TSA [Transportation Security Administration] rep and Milwaukee County sheriffs. The TSA made the decision that since this was a group, we should rescreen all of them." Midwest Express either found hotels for those who missed their flights or provided transportation home."

The list isn't really news - I've heard about it before. It's a "watch list", the very thing that many people think should have been in effect before 9/11, inasmuch as some of the terrorists were able to board planes freely under their own names even though the FBI was looking for them. This isn't the first time that an innocent person has been detained because their name matched one on the list. These people just happened to be on their way to a protest.

Was it over-zealous for the local authorities to detain the whole group? Perhaps. Would I have done the same thing? Perhaps, and I've been a card-carrying member of the ACLU. If we're going to screen airplane flights for potential terrorists, these things will happen on occasion.

If we found out that the names of the protestors were on the list because of their political views, and that similar groups were detained in other cities for the same reason, then I would be concerned about "McCarthyism". But that's not what happened.

finboy · Jun 10, 2002, 03:20 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Millennium:


As for The Dude's bit about "The US being gone in 50 years": It's gone already, for all intents and purposes. Our system is very rapidly degenerating into one that's not worth defending, and I fear the Homeland Security (read: Big Brother) plans will all but seal that deal.<hr /></blockquote>I'm still trying to cling to some optimism, but you may be right.

I think one of the best indicators that we've been destroyed is all the attention paid to "protestors" who really have nothing to protest. "Causes" that really aren't causes at all. What people refuse to understand, I think, is that such "causes" distract us from the real issues. Many of them seem to be done solely to benefit a particular group or "movement" at the expense of the rest of society. In any case, they do a GREAT job at distracting us away from the real issues.

As for "Big Brother," it's already here. Nothing that Ashcroft or the current administration does will stop that -- there's too much power in it. To think that it is as "small" as a group of Republicans or Democrats is myopic. The systematic brainwashing of the citizenry began years ago, and it's been quite successful.