[e_x_blofeld]

Hi there,

i just want to find out why there are so many bad powerbooks around?

anyone that i know, who bought apowerbook in the last year ad it in for repair at least one time !

mine: (15/1.5/128 combo) bought in december 04:
first one:
- bad trackpad
second one:
- bad fan
third one: seemed to be ok, but now:
- white spots and a lot (25 and counting) of bad pixels
- keyboard does not stick anymore (see the other threads on that)

a friends (15/1.5/128 combo) bought in september 04
- keyboard backlight gone completely
- svhs out does not work

a friends (12/1,33/combo) bought in may 04)

- video out broken
- combo does not burn correctly anymore

a friends: (15/1,67/128/combo february 05)

- one ram slot on MB is gone...

a friends: (15/1,67/128/superdrive march 05)

- superdrive does not burn dvds anymore

All those errors have been confirmed by an AASP.

What is going wrong ?
I mean we are talking about premium prized products !


Any thoughts ?

[SpaceMonkey]

My dad bought a 17" Albook sometime last year. He's had no problems so far.

I'm not sure there have been enough problems reported for one to say that the current Powerbooks have some sort of design/manufacturing defect, with the possible exception of recently-reported trackpad issues on the latest revisions. Remember, most people talk about their computers whenever they have problems, not when they're working fine.

[cpac]

Originally posted by e_x_blofeld:
What is going wrong ?
I mean we are talking about premium prized products !


Any thoughts ?

Apple ships all it's lower quality products to Germany.

Really though, if there were truly a significant decrease in quality, you can bet you'd have heard more about it. Sounds like you and your friends have just been unlucky (and/or abusive)

[tictactoe]

I had a flawless 12" PB and now I have a flawless 15" PB.

[alphamatrix]

Originally posted by tictactoe:
I have a flawless 15" PB.

As do I.

[RealMac]

Originally posted by tictactoe:
I had a flawless 12" PB and now I have a flawless 15" PB.

Flawless only lasts until you:
-Drop or scratch it
-The battery starts to die
-Screen starts acting up on you.

Enjoy it while it lasts. My G5 has been fine other than some minor problems. The PowerBook on the other hand hasn't been as fortunate. Such is life though I guess..

[zzarg]

my Rev.A 12" had logic board problems in the first few weeks - the board was replaced then the whole unit !

Since then it's been really good hardware wise.

Had some weird USB power issues but some advice from here on resetting the PMU fixed that

Cosmetically it's not the same story with the case seeming to warp different ways different weeks (and it's not like I'm rough with my baby !) and pitting appearing on the palm rest (mostly bottom right hand corner).

Warping may be due to the little screws keep working themselves loose (mostly when the fan has been in action for a long time) and things seem to shift slightly (I really must super glue them in !)

The pitting... I've just ordered a Wrist Rag (on back order... darn) to see if it helps it stop getting any worse.

Touch wood my screen has been fine... no dead pixels (there was one on the original unit right at the bottom right corner) and even illumination on the screen.

I would love to see Apple instigate a zero dead pixel policy on PowerBook (and iBook) and external screens (they just need to push back on their suppliers) and also be a bit more understanding on AppleCare covering cosmetic issues when they're fairly common and due to a design 'weakness'

I see the machines are designed in California but assembled in a variety of factories around the world... I wonder if the quality varies... are there some good suppliers and some who have too many Friday Afternoon machines ?

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by e_x_blofeld:
why there are so many bad powerbooks around?

To convince customers of the need to purchase AppleCare

[ibook_steve]

Originally posted by zzarg:
I would love to see Apple instigate a zero dead pixel policy on PowerBook (and iBook) and external screens (they just need to push back on their suppliers) and also be a bit more understanding on AppleCare covering cosmetic issues when they're fairly common and due to a design 'weakness'

Nice to dream, isn't it? There is no such thing as a "zero dead pixel policy" in the industry and I doubt there ever will be.

Steve

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by ibook_steve:
Nice to dream, isn't it? There is no such thing as a "zero dead pixel policy" in the industry and I doubt there ever will be.

Steve

Samsung Announces Zero Dead Pixel Policy

[Jerman]

Good catch on the dead pixel policy. However, Slashdot mentioned it only applies in South Korea... Would be nice though.

As far as quality concerns go, I had an iMac/450 that worked great. (Well, until I decided to poke around and accidentally screw it up). Then a G4 Cube, then an 867 mhz Powermac, a G4 iBook for a brief time, then moved to a 17" rev. 1 Powerbook and finally this 12" 1.33 Ghz Powerbook. The only one that ever had a problem was the iBook. I sold it to a friend and recently they had problems with it booting. It turns out the third party memory I had installed had gone bad. So I guess I have had good luck with my machines. All of my laptops have been dead pixel free. Well, the 17" came with one in the bottom right corner, but I was able to rub it out easily.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by Jerman:
Good catch on the dead pixel policy. However, Slashdot mentioned it only applies in South Korea... Would be nice though.

Currently only in South Korea.

[shabbasuraj]

Every PB that is in my family is flawless.

5 in total.

Yay team.

[zzarg]

Originally posted by ibook_steve:
Nice to dream, isn't it? There is no such thing as a "zero dead pixel policy" in the industry and I doubt there ever will be.

Steve

while the policies may not exist, as consumers it's possible to push back - and get away with it.

I refuse to accept a laptop or LCD screen until I've inspected it when I'm buying for myself, family/friends or work. I recently refused to accept an Acer laptop I'd order for a friend because of one dead pixel - because it had been noted on the original order the store had no choice... replace it or lose the business.
On a larger scale for a recent project we ordered 50 Samsung LCD monitors and again a condition of the order was that any unit that was delivered with dead pixels (either on initial inspection or within the first 14 days of use) would be replaced within 48 hours and if more than 10% of the delivered units where faulty the entire lot would go back and the order would be cancelled.... supplier delivered 52 to make sure we had some cover but because they'd already powered them up and checked before delivery we found a total of one dead pixel in the first 3 weeks - so one perfect and one faulty spare where returned and everyone was happy.
In both cases insisting on quality didn't cost us extra... we make sure any supplier knows what we expect before negotiating a price and we always offer the sale to at least two dealers

The only reason the industry won't publicly acknowledge a zero-dead-pixel policy is there isn't a big enough demand... people seem happy to take what they get.

It's time to change that.

[iboy]

I think too: The quality of hardware and repairservices from Apple are below average!

I never had so much trouble with any other company in all my life...

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally posted by iboy:
I think too: The quality of hardware and repairservices from Apple are below average!

Consumer Reports disagrees with you, both in 2002 and 2004.

[iboy]

Well I see, in America the whole service quality seems to be better. Unfortunatly I live in the german speaking area of the world and here the customer satisfaction is far behind Asus, IBM... and even Dell... and that will mean something for me!

[analogika]

Originally posted by iboy:
Well I see, in America the whole service quality seems to be better. Unfortunatly I live in the german speaking area of the world and here the customer satisfaction is far behind Asus, IBM... and even Dell... and that will mean something for me!

I'd like to see the numbers on this, because I doubt that you are correct.

[ddma]

My new 1.67GHz PowerBook G4 15 inch is prefect so far. No dead pixels, no white spots, no broken video out (using 20 inch Apple Cinema Display at home), brighter backlit keyboard.

[iboy]

It is written in German. c't is a well known PC magazine in the german speaking area of Europe and in general macuser friendly!

http://www.asuscom.de/press/Sonderdr...05.110-119.pdf

[Randman]

Reports online are going to be skewed because more people who experience problems are likely to report it. You don't see that many "no problems so far" threads. And, as anything electronic or mechanical, there's going to be some mistakes. AppleCare does a good job of taking care of stuff and there's always extended AppleCare.

[analogika]

Originally posted by iboy:
It is written in German. c't is a well known PC magazine in the german speaking area of Europe and in general macuser friendly!

http://www.asuscom.de/press/Sonderdr...05.110-119.pdf

c't is indeed the closest thing to the word of God as far as European computer publications go.

And according to page 5 of the article, 75% of Apple laptop customers are happy (zufrieden) or very happy (sehr zufrieden) with their products (chart at top right), with the average being 65% (top left).

[phoenix78]

I do believe that quality has gone down in apple products and anyone who thinks that apple quality is still good is not reading enough reviews LOL.

1) logic board replacement offer
2) white spots lcd replacement offer
3) battery replacement offer
4) trackpad issues
5) uneven illumination (aknowledgement possibly in the future)
6) poor backlit keyboard
7) heat of casing on the bottom ( friend of mine couldnt keep it on her lap because it was so hot it was nearly burning her legs!)

8) even the OS updates cause wierd behaviour lol... they cant even get it right in software before causing havoc to their users.

for gods sake the list goes on...these things are happening on mass from simple useage! what more do you need to come to the conclusion that apple's testing is sh*t! The public is virtually doing their alpha testing for them LOL. I had my pb 15" alu returned after failed attempts at fixing uneven illumination and refused to buy any pb since... until i am satisfied that that does not occur anymore... and to add to my woes i had a horrible experience with the service providers and apple tech with this issue in that they started concocting excuses to not fault the machine after they couldnt fix it. lol... the tech even damaged my aluminium frame ! lol.. and then said it was normal ! lol.

I do admit that there are those who dont have any problems with their pb's and i truely envy them (these are also mostly the ones who defend apple tooth and nail). there are those who do have issues but just dont care and continue happily using it and there are those who shut up and cant be bothered to do anything about it and those also who dont even know that there is something wrong.

It is also true that on forums there are more people complaining than praising... however this does not make the forums a distortion of reality... from these forums and from the number of complaints from those who have exactly the same symptoms , this indicates a flaw in manufacturing that has gone undeteced in apples testing and as such has not been fixed. I am increadibly grateful for forums like these that have people telling thir story because it saves me from having to go through the horrible experience of buying something that possibly will have a defect because it was not picked up in testing.

I dont favour apple over wintel/amd ... i like them both however at least other manufacturers actually go and make sure their products work perfectly given that the components are not broken in some way... i can accept one video card to be accidentally busted or something but you dont find every single video card delivered in a product to be faulty in some way like the trackpads have recently in the latest pb rev lol.
thats just

Also apple care is grossly inflated in price (~AU$300 more than other manufacturers)!! lol... i was in a store recently checking out the latest revision and the store owner told me to get applecare becasue components fail largely just after the warranty period.. like at 15 months or so... this means that apple dont use 'high quality' products that maintain their integrity for longer periods than other manufacturers. Also fans are loud, cd/dvd are loud, casing is warped... not in anyway better than other manufacturers. You are "forced" to buy applecare essentially. For what you pay for a pb you do not get back in quality. they are just as cheap and shonkey as any other cheap laptop out there. And this is comming from a mac user of 10 years lol

i could keep going on and on about this lol... there just is no defense or bul***it excuse argument that can ignore that apple has gone down in quality.

cheers,
rob

[biposto]

Originally posted by iboy:
Well I see, in America the whole service quality seems to be better. Unfortunatly I live in the german speaking area of the world and here the customer satisfaction is far behind Asus, IBM... and even Dell... and that will mean something for me!

Omg, have you seen the new Asus V6? its awesome, im gonna get that one.
And Asus is offering zero dead pixel policy on it.

[Crusoe]

I think Apple switched QA from Hardware to Software.

I still have a performa 6400 that boots and runs without a hitch but of course only OS 8 something which was a novelty OS.

Now they have a real OS that is solid and their hardware QA is weak.
I had a Rev A 15" powerbook, white spots. Sent it in, trim was loose, sent it in, trim was not fixed much. Sold to neighbor.

My 17" Rev A was doing fine though it came with a battery with "dead" areas, would drop from 30% to 0 and shutdown. That was an easy replace. 10 days before my warranty was up the logic board had to be replaced.

There's a huge advantage Apple has to controlling the hardware and software and that's stability and reliability, which they're failing to take advantage of.

I hope my powerbook chugs along now for another 4 years at least. My old TiBook 500Mhz is still going strong but looks like Arnold at the end of Terminator.

[wunderkind]

rev. B 12" 1GHz PB: zero problems in 14 months.

rev. D 12" 1.5GHz PB: an out-of-a-box defective SuperDrive that scratched many disks. Was replaced with a new unit that has a detached keyboard (I didn't even bother to boot it up, so it may have other flaws). I am waiting for it to be replaced with the third new 12" in 5 weeks. Hopefully third time is a charm.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally posted by phoenix78:
I do believe that quality has gone down in apple products and anyone who thinks that apple quality is still good is not reading enough reviews LOL.

Anyone who thinks that the recent hardware problems on the Aluminum Powerbooks by themselves indicate some kind of larger drop in QA by Apple has a very short memory. If you look through http://www.lowendmac.com/ at various Apple models, there are many many cases of common hardware failures over the years. These include cache failures on the Lombard, "flaming" G3 Series II and 5300 powerbooks, and broken hinges on the Titanium Powerbooks

The point is that even with a history of hardware problems, Apple STILL ranks higher than most any other computer-maker in customer satisfaction both with the product itself and with the repair service Apple provides. The onus is on those who say that there has been a drop in product quality to provide reputable statistical/survey evidence to contradict the solid evidence that already exists for general consumer satisfaction with the company. Just citing posts in mostly troubleshooting-oriented forums won't cut it.

[gbarill]

spacemonkey is right, if you even just read boards like this for more than a few months, every time some new flaw is discovered in a line of computers, another post starts up about how apple's computers are declining in quality.
yes, they have problems sometimes, but so does every other company.
i still think apple computers are more thought out than other company's computers, which makes them worth any "extra cost"...
however i know that my tibook is still running strong (400 mhz, 4 years old now), even though the cd drive acts irritable sometimes.
if apple really assured that every single computer was absolutely perfect in every way they would cost 5000 a piece

[finboy]

Originally posted by iboy:
I think too: The quality of hardware and repairservices from Apple are below average!

I never had so much trouble with any other company in all my life...

You must not buy a lot of stuff. If you did, you'd see that Apple has a pretty good track record. Sure, once in a while they'll design something poorly (such as the cables on the iBooks) but they usually get it right.

[iboy]

I'm so happy for you guys that you have no problems with your laptops...

I'm an Appleuser since 1991 but after my experiences from the last three laptops I'm really done with Apple. Look, I can understand that some defects can appear but Apple doesn't care about the customer once they bought a product! I'm really disappointed about the aftersales service...


1. iBook 300

The poweradapter was defective after 2 month and I had to send in the whole laptop. But they did't pick up my box for 5 weeks from my home. I phoned to Apple over 20 times but nothing happend: "they will come tomorrow at 5 pm" they said but nothing happend


2. Titanum 677 MHz

My batterie was not reloading anymore. I chequed the batterie and it was okay... someting on the motherboard was defective ant had to be changed within the warranty. But they sent me the laptop back after 4 weeks with the same failture again. I phoned to Apple and they said to me that they had fixed the problem by changing some parts on the motherboard. That was a lie!!! I sent it in again and after 5 weeks of no responce I complained. After additional 2 weeks they finally sent me back my loved Laptop... under some circumstancens (maybe 2 times out of 10) the batterie is still unable to recharge (???)


3. Powerbook 1.5 GHz

After 6 month of use one of the hinges were defective and had to be replace. The service was so sh***y done by the autorised repairpoint that they destroyed other things and I have had two additional repairs till now and my Laptop is still not working properly today... so I have to send it in once more.

I send a letter to Cork but Apple refused to replace my unit because the do not have all the repair informations (???). I think in this company one hand does not know what the other is doing...


My next Laptop will definitly NOT be an Apple again, as much I love the operating system...

[paul w]

Originally posted by iboy:
I'm so happy for you guys that you have no problems with your laptops...

I'm an Appleuser since 1991 but after my experiences from the last three laptops I'm really done with Apple. Look, I can understand that some defects can appear but Apple doesn't care about the customer once they bought a product! I'm really disappointed about the aftersales service...


1. iBook 300

The poweradapter was defective after 2 month and I had to send in the whole laptop. But they did't pick up my box for 5 weeks from my home. I phoned to Apple over 20 times but nothing happend: "they will come tomorrow at 5 pm" they saild but nothing happend


2. Titanum 677 MHz

My batterie was not reloading anymore. I chequed the batterie and it was okay... someting on the motherboard was defective ant had to be changed within the warranty. But they sent me the laptop back after 4 weeks with the same failture again. I phoned to Apple and they said to me that they had fixed the problem by changing some parts on the motherboard. That was a lie!!! I sent it in again and after 5 weeks of no responce I complained. After additional 2 weeks they finally sent me back my loved Laptop... under some circumstancens (maybe 2 times out of 10) the batterie is still unable to recharge (???)


3. Powerbook 1.5 GHz

After 6 month of use one of the hinges were defective and had to be replace. The service was so sh***y done by the autorised repairpoint that they destroyed other things and I have had two additional repairs till now and my Laptop is still not working properly today... so I have to send it in once more.

I send a letter to Cork but Apple refused to replace my unit because the do not have all the repair informations (???). I think in this company one hand does not know what the other is doing...


My next Laptop will definitly NOT be an Apple again, as much I love the operating system...

Just curious, but where do you live, Ireland? Most people's experience with Apple in the US has been stellar. However apparently it's not the same story everywhere else. I've heard some horror stories from people in the UK and I can imagine that Ireland is probably even worse off.

Ah well, I just kinda pray that my tibook holds up until the summer when I'm back in the States with its quick service and Apple Stores and their genius bars.

But 3 Apple laptops, and I have yet to have any problems whatsoever. Maybe lucky, but they were also all bought in the US. Assembled elsewhere, sure, but still.

[Steve Bosell]

I ordered a 15in 1.67 that arrived with a dead airport card, Apple care has had it for over two weeks on "Hold-awaiting part". pretty lame if you ask me

[Michael1980]

Originally posted by paul w:
Just curious, but where do you live, Ireland? Most people's experience with Apple in the US has been stellar. However apparently it's not the same story everywhere else. I've heard some horror stories from people in the UK and I can imagine that Ireland is probably even worse off.

Ah well, I just kinda pray that my tibook holds up until the summer when I'm back in the States with its quick service and Apple Stores and their genius bars.

But 3 Apple laptops, and I have yet to have any problems whatsoever. Maybe lucky, but they were also all bought in the US. Assembled elsewhere, sure, but still.

It doesn't matter where you buy, they get shipped from the same place anyway.

[Simon]

I have had quite a few Macs myself (see sig) and I have hardly ever experienced problems with hardware. I also don't have the impression quality control has been getting worse lately.

However, just recently, I experienced for the first time ever, a DOA part. When my 60 GB iPod photo arrived, the USB charger didn't work. I did some testing but quickly found it had to be the charger itself. I called Apple Support and had to wait in line for about a quarter of an hour, but then got taken care of by a very friendly and polite German guy. I explained the situation and the testing I had done to make sure it was really the charger (cable, socket, iPod, etc.) that had kicked the bucket. He agreed that it must be a broken charger, apologized for the inconvenience and immediately offered to send a replacement charger. He explained that I would get a new charger through UPS and that I could send back the broken charger through a prepaid UPS service as well. The call took a while, but it was well worth it.

Believe it or not, 23 hours later UPS is at my door and hands me a brand new charger. Apple had managed to send me a new charger from Holland all the way to Switzerland (which includes passing the notoriously picky Swiss custom officials) - no questions asked - in less than one single day. I was absolutely stunned. And of course the new charger works perfectly.

So, in my personal experience Apple's hardware is very reliable and if they happen to screw up, they help you instantly and w/o unnecessary bureaucracy. Of course this may not be everybody's experience, but since most often people only mention when stuff goes wrong, I figured I'd contribute this story to the discussion.

[Kyros]

I have heard of quite a few problems, but my dad's powerbook works fine, over a year after dropping it while the disk was spinning, so they seem sturdy enough. My friend's powerbook has no problems either.

[jstein]

Originally posted by phoenix78:
I do believe that quality has gone down in apple products and anyone who thinks that apple quality is still good is not reading enough reviews LOL.

1) logic board replacement offer
2) white spots lcd replacement offer
3) battery replacement offer
4) trackpad issues
5) uneven illumination (aknowledgement possibly in the future)
6) poor backlit keyboard
7) heat of casing on the bottom ( friend of mine couldnt keep it on her lap because it was so hot it was nearly burning her legs!)

8) even the OS updates cause wierd behaviour lol... they cant even get it right in software before causing havoc to their users.

for gods sake the list goes on...these things are happening on mass from simple useage!

rob

Nice summary Phoenix78� It puzzles how every time someone levels a complaint against Apple concerning their computer especially a Powerbook so many people are quick to accuse them of abuse. Now, there does appear to be an over abundance of uh oh I dropped my Powerbook threads popping up lately and yes some people are very careless in the way that they handle their Powerbooks. Yet more than likely they are in the minority. Honestly how many people are going to pay 2k and up for a laptop just to abuse it? I cannot speak for everyone else but I need my Powerbook to make a living financially speaking. Downtime for me can put a huge dent in my bank account sometime at this point of time in my life I cannot afford. Again speaking for myself I take very good care of my Powerbook and yet I still have had issues with it. My unit has been sent in for repairs on four different occasions and for the month of February my Powerbook was with me for only one week. With each issue I must commend Apple Care for their professionalism and patience in resolving my issue.


With that being said it is only honest to feel that Apple has a truckload of issues to workout when it comes to the Alu Powerbook line. Also the increase number of people purchasing an Apple computer does not help. I mean it is good for Apple profit wise but with more people are going to come more complaints and issues, deadlines have to met to meet demands leading to more problems etc etc.. And you guys are demanding a G5 Powerbook


I applaud the people who speak out on quality issues especially when it comes to Apple. The more we let Apple know about issues maybe more can be done about them. Yes it is natural for people create threads concerning a complaint than giving praise that it is human nature. Just as it is human nature for a person to say well that has not happen to me and the people I know so it must be something that you are doing wrong� With that being said, I have at least two or post praising Apple and my Powerbook

[Steve Bosell]

Just got an update on my machine, AppleCare has had it for over 2 weeks "Hold-Awaiting part" no eta on the part, a replacement machine will take a month.

[crazeazn]

12" rev B.

1. the battery lid, poor design and i always had to wedge a piece of paper to keep the surface uniform. i tried placing the edge and gently pushing down like alot of forum members recommended, but that didnt alleviate my situation
2. after less than 1 year, the battery conked to less than 45 minutes of use, that was replaced.
3. my hard drive was making light saber noises for quite sometime, mentioned this to apple genuis bar, nothing was down, a few days later hard drive fails as does motherboard.

luckily the process has been painless and the turnaround is very quick. i've just never had a machine that has this many problems in 1 package.

[11011001]

I am on my 5th screen (white spots, and one defective one). I thought my latest one was beautiful, but it isn't. It has a stupid gradient. Things are crisp on the top left, and blurry in the bottom right. I spend a lot of time in the terminal, and this is driving me insane. I am finding it difficult to read text for a long time, and I want to do graphics related work, it out's of the question except on an external LCD. Gah.

I mean, what the heck! 5 screens. Do you guys even think I can get this one replaced?

I am also currently suffering from bad pitting, and a dead network port.

[gururafiki]

I never had any issues with any of my macs, until I got my brand new laptop one month ago. First it would not recognize ram in the bottom slot so I sent it in. After the logic board was replaced, I got it back with more issues. The VRAM only shows 64mb instead of the full 128mb. On top of that, sometimes it wont wake from sleep, turn on, and it occasionaly shows crazy colourful lines on the screen after it wakes from sleep. This all after they replaced the logic board once already. So now I wait...

At the exact same time that I am dealing with all of this, my roommate's 1.25 (FW800) powerbook just died completely and he lost everything. After applecare replaced the HD, Logic board, and other unknown parts, they sent it back. It still froze over and over again though. He sent it back again last week, and got it back today. Seems to be working fine now.

So yea, why are there so many bad apples lately??

[steel84]

So my question is, will anyone switch to a pc because of the problems they have been having? I am just really curious if people are that mad with the apples they are getting and tech support and help they are getting. Or are people just blowing off steam.

[gururafiki]

Originally posted by steel84:
So my question is, will anyone switch to a pc because of the problems they have been having?

NO

[steel84]

Originally posted by gururafiki:
NO

Thats what I thought LOL..