[harrisjamieh]

I personally don't see how this isn't spam - if someone else apart from a mod posted this, theres a very high chance it would be locked & deleted.

[Simon]

Spam.

Fortunately I'll have one less bag company to look at when I get my next bag.

[vmarks]

This isn't a sale. This isn't an advertisement for a store or website.

This is a contest.

All you have to do is tell a story and stand a chance to win something whose retail price is between $69 and $179 USD.

The fact that a company (oh no!) is donating (the horrors!) one of their bags does not make it spam. Your definition is too broad.

I wonder if you would consider it spam if we decided to give away some Apple products. Would you likewise no longer consider Apple as a company you could buy from?

[Hi I'm Ben]

Originally Posted by Simon

Spam.

Fortunately I'll have one less bag company to look at when I get my next bag.

and it's also quite unfortunate you have such a difficult time understanding the difference between a free contest and spam.


Wish I had a broken laptop story! I could use a free bag.

[tooki]

Originally Posted by harrisjamieh

I personally don't see how this isn't spam - if someone else apart from a mod posted this, theres a very high chance it would be locked & deleted.

MacNN has a contest, and a company donates a prize, and that makes it spam?!?

tooki

[rjenkinson]

Originally Posted by tooki

MacNN has a contest, and a company donates a prize, and that makes it spam?!?

tooki

but didn't you call another user's thread about his own free forums spam?

-r.

[tooki]

Umm, because that was spam. This isn't MacNN trying to sell you something. MacNN is having a contest.

And consider the retail store analogy: would it be OK for CVS Pharmacy to distribute flyers inside a Rite Aid? Of course not. But is it normal for CVS to have posters inside its own store advising of sales? DUH!

tooki

[euphras]

Originally Posted by tooki

Umm, because that was spam. This isn't MacNN trying to sell you something. MacNN is having a contest.

And consider the retail store analogy: would it be OK for CVS Pharmacy to distribute flyers inside a Rite Aid? Of course not. But is it normal for CVS to have posters inside its own store advising of sales? DUH!

tooki

This is MacNN actively promoting Brenthaven bags, sorry i agree with Simon

-> spam

[Peter]

you agree? get over yourself.
its a contest, whats so hard to understand? FREE STUFF.
Jeez...

[rjenkinson]

Originally Posted by tooki

Umm, because that was spam. This isn't MacNN trying to sell you something. MacNN is having a contest.

And consider the retail store analogy: would it be OK for CVS Pharmacy to distribute flyers inside a Rite Aid? Of course not. But is it normal for CVS to have posters inside its own store advising of sales? DUH!

tooki

that is nonsense. macnn is promoting a company's product by offering them free advertising in the form of a prize, a link to their website, and soliciting testimonials from the forums users. if you consider a user posting a link to his own free forums spam, then this promotion surely meets that standard.

and who deleted most of the posts in this sticky?

-r.

[euphras]

Deletion is startinga again?!?

Well then:

MacNN actively promoting Brenthaven -> spam

[vmarks]

Since the contest thread began to get sidetracked by people who wanted to discuss the definition of the word 'spam,' I thought I would open a thread here for that discussion.

Here's the story:

I arranged with Brenthaven to send me a sample of their product line to subject to completely un-scientific testing under real-world conditions.

We put a powerbook in a bag, dropped it from a height
We booted the powerbook and inspected for damage.
We repeated with another bag.

Then we dropped them down a staircase.
Then off a moving vehicle.

And I asked Brenthaven if they would give a bag to one of our users. They agreed, and they agreed to give a new one, not one of the bags we abused.

Sure, they get some promotion out of it. Would they be as willing to give a bag if I gave away one of their competitors' products at the same time? I don't know.

Is it necessarily spam for me to post such a contest as MacNN giving away something on MacNN's site?

No one is profiting here.
No one is being sold something.
It isn't cross-posted in all the forums.
And it isn't forced into your inbox or flooding the forums.

It's simply us giving away something that most of us could use, that happens to be made by a for-profit company.

I don't think it meets the definition of spam, even if it is a promotion.


EDIT: I moved the deleted posts from the contest thread here, and because they're posted in order of time created, they appear above this post which should be considered the first post in this thread.

[Simon]

Of course their are people profiting here.

• The bag company gets their name everywhere on this board. It's an announcement at the top of every forum page.

• MacNN gates to donate a bag to somebody.Ooooooh, how generous.

Lots of cheap publicity here. It's spam. 0% doubt. The fact that some sleazy 'mod' already tried to delete posts made about it being spam proves the point. If you can't debate it, delete it.

The sunny side is, since spam is now officlally allowed on this board, there's one more reason to check out other boards that don't tolerate spam at all, like AppleTalker.

[vmarks]

Except that now you're spamming for AppleTalker, aren't you.

The fact that some other mod deleted your off-topic posts doesn't mean it proves it as spam.

It just means that he didn't bother to put them in Feedback as I did. In fact, because I'm encouraging this discussion, doesn't that do anything to damage your "doesn't want to talk about it, must be spam" position?

[Chuckit]

Cry more. Seriously. A place posting about a contest it is holding != spam. That's an announcement. Somebody posting about another place's product repeatedly = spam. Simple as that.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by vmarks

Except that now you're spamming for AppleTalker, aren't you.

Well, you guys just officially allowed spamming, so I took the chance to make use of that new policy.

The fact that some other mod deleted your off-topic posts doesn't mean it proves it as spam.

No, actually it proves just another mod is overextended and unqualified.

Give it up, you guys just don't like to play by the same rules you put up for others. The hypocrisy is knee-deep in here.

[rjenkinson]

Originally Posted by vmarks

Except that now you're spamming for AppleTalker, aren't you.

The fact that some other mod deleted your off-topic posts doesn't mean it proves it as spam.

it's worth noting that his forums don't meet the four criteria for spam that you posted. and that you continue to call it spam.

-r.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Simon

Well, you guys just officially allowed spamming, so I took the chance to make use of that new policy.

1. MacNN is the company that's running these boards. It is not spam for them to mention themselves. That is, it's actually a relevant topic.

2. Unless I have missed something, there have been a lot more AppleTalker threads than threads posted by MacNN about its contest.

[vmarks]

No, they don't meet my criteria at all- which is why I don't care if he posts it as a part of his sig or post -- but it does seem to meet the definition he's trying to apply, so it did seem a bit hypocritical on his part. Since it isn't my definition, I'm not holding him to it.

Would those of you who believe the contest is spam answer me this:

a) What kind of promotion can be done that does not meet your definition of spam? Can there ever be a giveaway of any type? Can it be a giveaway of just one company's products, or does it have to be composed of competitor's products?

b) Can you define spam clearly as you see it, since there are a myriad of definitions including ones that only apply to email, different ones for politicians, and so on?

[Simon]

Let me put it in very simple words just so we're completely clear here.

Not one single user asked for the contest so it was unsolicited. The contest promotes a bag company so it's also commercial. Conclusion: unsolicited and commercial. That is the definition of spam.

As far as I'm concerned you have to either change the forum rules or ban yourself. [Yes, I am kidding.]

And if you chose to revoke the contest and seriously stop spam once and for all, I'll be the first to edit my post and remove any mentioning of appletalker.

[mac128k-1984]

Wow you guys really need to chill.
Why get all hot and bothered by this contest and whether its spam. Personally I think the people who having trouble with this are really splitting hairs. Macnn has a right to hold a contest. If they started posting this contest in other forums its spam. They can post what ever they want here.

This place seems to have soo many people who are so whiney, complaining about every little thing.

[CharlesS]

If you like Spam, then you'll love Acme SynthMeat.

Tasty, Delicious, and Cheap!!

Check it out: http://www.acmesynthmeat.com

[vmarks]

Originally Posted by Simon

Let me put it in very simple words just so we're completely clear here.

Not one single user asked for the contest so it was unsolicited. The contest promotes a bag company so it's also commercial. Conclusion: unsolicited and commercial. That is the definition of spam.

As far as I'm concerned you have to either change the forum rules or ban yourself. [Yes, I am kidding.]

And if you chose to revoke the contest and seriously stop spam once and for all, I'll be the first to edit my post and remove any mentioning of appletalker.

It would be really lousy to revoke a contest that already has participants in it, don't you think?

Obviously, they want to participate, so for them, it can't be spam.

As for your use of the word unsolicited, it doesn't fit here. I'll explain why.

In your email inbox, something is pushed on you that you didn't ask for- it's unsolicited.
Here, all forums posts are unsolicited. You didn't ask for a post to appear on the black macbooks, or ram slots, or anything else for that matter. The only post you solicited to appear are the ones you have created.

The fact that you actively choose to browse the site means you are requesting to view whatever we have here.

UCE is unsolicited commercial email, but that definition of spam only works when it's your resource being abused, your email server. Here, you're coming of your own choosing.

At some point, if we do enough things that you disagree with, you'll stop coming. We try and balance doing things you disagree with, with the things other people want or disagree with. Can't please everybody, but we hope to do as few of the things that chase people away as we can.

Among the mods, we disagree about these things, hence the deleted posts vs the feedback thread.

[Peter]

it isnt Spam.
end of discussion.

[euphras]

Originally Posted by Peter

it isnt Spam.
end of discussion.

You are the master

[Peter]

Originally Posted by euphras

You are the master

no, the mods "are the master"
and they've said it isnt spam?


MacNN offers a contest and you guys shoot it down

[vmarks]

Euphras, I'm still open to discussing it.

I don't know that we'll agree, but I hope you're closer to understanding me, as I am to understanding your position.

[euphras]

Originally Posted by Peter

you agree? get over yourself.
its a contest, whats so hard to understand? FREE STUFF.
Jeez...

How old are you?

[Peter]

Originally Posted by euphras

How old are you?

whys that matter?
Im just in awe that people are complaining over MacNN holding a contest, where the members benefit.

[euphras]

you�re behaving like a child or a teen or twen maybe

[Peter]

Originally Posted by euphras

you�re behaving like a child or a teen or twen maybe

ironic that you, Mr "I hate MacNN, MacNN sucks soooo much" post here so much?

The quality MacNN forums alternative: Apple Talker

Even your forum is just a discussion about what happens at MacNN.

[euphras]

Originally Posted by Peter

ironic that you, Mr "I hate MacNN, MacNN sucks soooo much" post here so much?


Even your forum is just a discussion about what happens at MacNN.

You did read my join date over here?!? I enjoyed this place back in 2002 --- but the joy is vanishing

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by mac128k-1984

Wow you guys really need to chill.
Why get all hot and bothered by this contest and whether its spam. Personally I think the people who having trouble with this are really splitting hairs. Macnn has a right to hold a contest. If they started posting this contest in other forums its spam. They can post what ever they want here.

This place seems to have soo many people who are so whiney, complaining about every little thing.

No kidding. I was actually at AppleTalker for a while and totally behind them, but their behavior here has made me not want to go there. Geez, whining about a company mentioning a giveaway on its own Web site.

[Peter]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

No kidding. I was actually at AppleTalker for a while and totally behind them, but their behavior here has made me not want to go there. Geez, whining about a company mentioning a giveaway on its own Web site.

not want to go there? psst, nice sig

[Chuckit]

Yeah, it's been there for a while.

[tooki]

The only reasons the AppleTalker folks are making a fuss is:

1. They want us to allow them to spam their site here, which we won't. (In fact, I think it's remarkably tolerant of us to allow them to badmouth MacNN in their sigs here, and provide links to AppleTalker in the next breath.)

2. They are seeking anything, no matter how remote or absurd, which they can potentially use to badmouth MacNN, because they've become convinced (irrationally) that MacNN is run by tyrannical, corrupt, self-absorbed, hypocritical jackasses. It's not the case, but each and every word we say and thing we do is mushed into that bizarre mold they've created. They think there's a conspiracy, when there is not.

In other words, let the conspiracy theorists go ga-ga, all the sane people can happily participate and maybe win a nice bag.

tooki

[rjenkinson]

strawman.

-r.

[Chuckit]

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

[Gamoe]

Tookie, you're not being fair. Don't generalize. No particular member of AppleTalker represents or speaks for the entire board. We all speak as individuals.

Also, I've never thought that there was a conspiracy on this board, and you know that I've welcomed you, as I have also welcomed vmarks, to AppleTalker, without any reserve or hostility. Let's not create a problem were none exists.

[besson3c]

You guys should check out Fuzzy Wombat!

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by besson3c

You guys should check out Fuzzy Wombat!

Now that is spam.

[Simon]

Since tooki just posted a bunch of uninformed crap (obviously vmarks is the only mod here who has actually tried to find out what the issue is), I'll be glad to give an actual arguement. The reason I'm "making a fuss" is because this board puts up rules that only apply to a chosen group. Either they apply to everybody or to nobody. Promoting a business w/o being asked for it is an unsolicited commercial post and that is spam - there is no bullsh!tting around that simple fact. If the very people that harass me for posting a link to appletalker put up that kind of spam I will allow myself to point that out, challenge these people in a public thread and call them hypocrites. And if any of your delicate egos is touched too much by that, well consider myself completely unimpressed. Get your love at home, not here.

[Chuckit]

MacNN Is Serious Business.™

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Simon

Since tooki just posted a bunch of uninformed crap (obviously vmarks is the only mod here who has actually tried to find out what the issue is), I'll be glad to give an actual arguement. The reason I'm "making a fuss" is because this board puts up rules that only apply to a chosen group. Either they apply to everybody or to nobody. Promoting a business w/o being asked for it is an unsolicited commercial post and that is spam - there is no bullsh!tting around that simple fact. If the very people that harass me for posting a link to appletalker put up that kind of spam I will allow myself to point that out, challenge these people in a public thread and call them hypocrites. And if any of your delicate egos is touched too much by that, well consider myself completely unimpressed. Get your love at home, not here.

Um, MacNN having a contest is not spam. It doesn't matter what they are giving out.

Choose your battles a bit more wisely.

The only people whining about this is those that DO want to spam the forums with their THEIR silly forum.

Really, get a grip. If you don't like it hang out in your forums if they are as cool as you claim. And if that is the case, what are you doing still in here?

[tooki]

tooki

[tooki]

Originally Posted by Simon

Since tooki just posted a bunch of uninformed crap (obviously vmarks is the only mod here who has actually tried to find out what the issue is), ... well consider myself completely unimpressed. Get your love at home, not here.

tooki

[Kevin]

That will teach MacNN for giving something away for free.

There is no doubt that reading this thread has lowered my I.Q.

[mac128k-1984]

Originally Posted by tooki

The only reasons the AppleTalker folks are making a fuss is:

1. They want us to allow them to spam their site here, which we won't. (In fact, I think it's remarkably tolerant of us to allow them to badmouth MacNN in their sigs here, and provide links to AppleTalker in the next breath.)

Can I make a suggestion regarding those folks who are hot and bothered by the contest being spam. Dis-allow their sigs to have references to AT.

It really makes little sense to allow people to advertise a competing forum, regardless if its smaller. I mean if the other forum is so great why do they continue to post here, other then post disruptive threads and question the management of this forum. Seems trollish to me

[Peter]

I agree with the previous two posts.

[ghporter]

Shilling one's site (which probably makes one some profit through more hits that advertisers pay for) is spam. This contest is NOT about advertising. I simply don't see how this can be confusing to anyone.