[GeneA]

I am about to upgrade my G4 to the new Dual 1GHZ. My current G4/500 has a DVD-RAM drive, DVD dead-end technology. In the August 2002 Yahoo Internet Life, the Surf Guru says on p. 31, "I'm waiting for a single DVD standard to emerge, at which point I'll purchase a DVD-R/RW drive". This has given me reason to question whether, given that caution, I should be upgrading my G4 until a DVD standard is established. Is there a serious possibility that the DVD technology in the superdrive could also dead-end? Should one follow the lead of the YIL's Surf Guru? I'd like to hear the thoughts of those who know this field.

[businezguy]

I thought about this before I made my purchase. I decided that, as long as the media will be available, it wouldn't make a difference. My reasoning is this: I can back up things I want to back up, and I can port my movies to DVD, so I am getting everything I want. There is no other reason for me to concern myself about the technology.

[godzappa]

Does anyone who has a Superdrive also have a Sanyo 2100 DVD player?

Apple's compatability list has nothing on any Sanyo DVD players and I have no way to test myself until I drop 3200 on the PowerMac Im looking at.

James

[GeneA]

I can see your point, Businezguy, but... what you would be satisfied with, is somewhat comparable to the situation I have with DVD-RAM. It works beautifully, as long as I don't leave my own machine. Burning DVDs implies that you want others to be able to play them on any DVD player over a reaonable period of time, as well as be able to access data yourself on DVD discs on other machines for a few years.

Does anybody know--is there any other DVD standard in the wings? Is your concern about Sanyo 2100, James, that it might be a different standard? I feel I got burned with my last G4, and I'd like not to have a repeat performance this time, if I can help it!!

[godzappa]

Well I just dont want to have to buy another DVD player once I fork over the money for a Superdrive Mac because it doesnt work. I cant see there being an accepted "standard" for DVD-Rs that will be adopted for all players, either ever, or at least until standalone DVD recorders become comon place, and even with those, I can see these perhaps being made to only play on the machine that recorded them (ie you buy a sony DVD recorder and can only play those discs on your own machine or other Sony recorders).

I dont think Apple is going to change its DVD recording format now, theres hundreds of thousands of Superdrive equipped Macs out there now, the DVDRam drive I cant remember ever being really sold as being a solution for burning DVD videos, as no one had any clue what formats or players would become standard. I think with the Superdrive and subsequent software, Apple chose the best format for the job and one that was most heavilly adopted, after all, its in its own best interest to have a format that will play in the most machines.

I just hope my Sanyo is one of those machines, or the rare Japanese DVD player I just forked over 350 bucks for will do at a pinch.

Does anyone know of a more complete, user orientated list of compatable DVD players? Apples list is internal testings I think, which limits the players tested quite a bit.

[Scotttheking]

I think DVD-R will become the standard.
Why?
Because it's on a lot of macs, and those macs actually use the drive. The tech is out there, and it works with more standalones, also.

We've got a "superdrive" here (I have a 1.44MB floppy superdrive, too ).

DVD-RAM was a bad call by apple.
This drive isn't.

--Scott

[nana4]

DVD+R(W) will probably become the general standard for data storage. But there will soon be 3rd gen drives that can burn at 4x, and can do both DVD-R(W) and DVD+R(W).

[tr]

i believe DVD-R/RW will become the preferred format. actually, isn't it already a standard, as set by DVD Forum. DVD+RW can't say that. hell, they aren't even allowed to put a DVD logo on their discs (hence the RW logo).

as for the next standard, it'll depend on the DVD forum. i believe it may be Blu-ray. 27 GB, 405nm laser, 1x read=36 MB/s. backed by 9 big manufacturers, except time warner, mitsubishi electric, and toshiba (who proposed their own 30 GB DVD to DVD forum as the next standard). i mean there's already a consortium for blu-ray, but DVD Forum hasn't agreed on anything yet. and a big thing affecting whether blu-ray will succeed, of course, is marketing.


tr

[nana4]

Originally posted by tr:
i believe DVD-R/RW will become the preferred format. actually, isn't it already a standard, as set by DVD Forum. DVD+RW can't say that. hell, they aren't even allowed to put a DVD logo on their discs (hence the RW logo).

as for the next standard, it'll depend on the DVD forum. i believe it may be Blu-ray. 27 GB, 405nm laser, 1x read=36 MB/s. backed by 9 big manufacturers, except time warner, mitsubishi electric, and toshiba (who proposed their own 30 GB DVD to DVD forum as the next standard). i mean there's already a consortium for blu-ray, but DVD Forum hasn't agreed on anything yet. and a big thing affecting whether blu-ray will succeed, of course, is marketing.


tr

F### the DVD forum. These are the dic$less mofos that implemented region coding, creating artificial and illegal price fixing. DVD-RW is currently the defacto standard because it was out first, but the DVD+RW standard has far more features for data storage, not to mention M$ support. As drives are available that can burn both, we should see confusion reduce and sales increase, driving prices down even further.

Blu-ray, if it ever comes to pass, may have a read speed of 36 Mbits/sec (not MB). The great danger is of course that they will simply use the current DVD media, and merely implement MPEG4 compression to enable HD resolution.

[tr]

Originally posted by nana4:


F### the DVD forum. These are the dic$less mofos that implemented region coding, creating artificial and illegal price fixing. DVD-RW is currently the defacto standard because it was out first, but the DVD+RW standard has far more features for data storage, not to mention M$ support. As drives are available that can burn both, we should see confusion reduce and sales increase, driving prices down even further.

Blu-ray, if it ever comes to pass, may have a read speed of 36 Mbits/sec (not MB). The great danger is of course that they will simply use the current DVD media, and merely implement MPEG4 compression to enable HD resolution.

whoops! sorry about that...that's 36 Mb/s. went a little caps crazy!

i agree that +RW has better data handling. for some reason, i don't think current media with mpeg-4 will ever happen. i don't know, you hear all this talk about mpeg-4, but i really don't see it becoming the 'next big thing'. i'm sure in the future we'll see crappy little mpeg-4 videos on our mobile phones and such, but what else?

i guess the problem i have with all this technology is that in the end, whether we, the consumers, get it or not, is based on these heavy-handed consortiums (DVD Forum, MPEG-LA, RIAA, every freakin' movie studio that has content, etc), who aren't really interested in the technology and giving it to the people, but are more interested in making the almighty dollar, since every member of the consortium is a big time manufacturer/media giant.


tr

[godzappa]

In an attempt to get some sort of definitive user list of DVD Players that work with the Superdrive and Apples software, I've created This Thread over in the Multimedia area, where hopefully everyone who has a Superdrive and plays them on their home DVD Players can list the player make and model number.

James

[GeneA]

I began this thread, and I've read all your posts with great interest--nothing interests one more than the effect on the pocketbook!!!!
One thing I wish one of you would explain for me is the difference between DVD-RW and DVD+RW. This DVD technical stuff is all new to me--and I'm learnin'! Thanks.

[tooki]

Panasonic sells a combo DVD-RAM/DVD-R drive. You could always get a Power Mac with a DVD-ROM/CD-RW drive and then get the external Panasonic drive to maintain read/write compatibility with DVD-RAM media.

As for whether DVD-R will die out: not a chance. DVD-R is designed to be compatible with the DVD-ROM standard, which is well established. Unlike DVD-RAM and DVD+R/RW, a properly manufactured DVD-ROM drive will be able to read any DVD-R/RW media (and most DVD-ROM drives can actually read DVD-RAM, too).

tooki

[GeneA]

But who would want a drive like the Panasonic one--wouldn't having a DVD-R make my double-sided square DVD-RAM disks obselete?
One of your lines, Tooki, caught my eye:
"most DVD-ROM drives can actually read DVD-RAM, too"
Would you explain that to me. Do you mean a superdrive could read my DVD-RAM disks?
I realize these are simplistic questions to you folk who are much more advanced on this stuff. My apologies!

[tooki]

I have never had an opportunity to try it, but it is my understanding that most DVD-ROM drives produced after DVD-RAM came out are capable of reading a DVD-RAM disk (if it's in a shell, you can remove the disc from it). I did a Knowledge Base search and it turns out, unfortunately that SuperDrives can neither read nor write DVD-RAM media. Since I don't know what combo drive models Apple is using, I can't say whether those can read DVD-RAM or not.

If someone can find out what Combo drive mechanisms Apple is using, I'll do some research to figure out whether they can read thr DVD-RAM or not.

tooki

[nana4]

Originally posted by tr:

for some reason, i don't think current media with mpeg-4 will ever happen. i don't know, you hear all this talk about mpeg-4, but i really don't see it becoming the 'next big thing'. i'm sure in the future we'll see crappy little mpeg-4 videos on our mobile phones and such, but what else?

If Warner has their way that is exactly what will happen. They make so much money from their current manufacturing plants/patents that they want to hang on to red laser for many years to come. Whatever happens is sure to come out later than expected, with plenty of delays regarding encryption etc. Don't get me wrong, MPEG-4 is a huge step forwards from MPEG-2, but for HD where picture image is the primary factor, it makes sense to have the greatest bit rate possible, instead of throwing bits away more efficiently.