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So, any concerns right-wingers? (Apparently none at all.) Also, is Japan a jerk? (Page 17)
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Chongo
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Aug 9, 2017, 06:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Since this is Obama's (and Clinton's and Dubya's) leftover mess, from passing the buck on the PRK for 8 years, he doesn't get away scot-free.
When you think about it, Truman is to ultimately blame. He would not alllow McArthur to bomb the bridges on the Yalu and prevent the Chinese getting involved. The war would have been over. Instead the Chinese crossed into NK and pushed the UN troops back to eventual DMZ. This ended with a "cessation of hostilities" that has been in place since. The "Korean Police Action" never ended.
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Odd, you didn't answer the question.
No. He said as much 18 years ago.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Aug 10, 2017, 05:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post

Do you know anyone who likes the guy?
I'll answer this for my area. Probably ~60% of the people who live in this part of TN like Trump, and 30% of those remaining don't exactly like him, but they don't hate him nearly as much as they hate the MSM.
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Aug 10, 2017, 05:44 AM
 
A local radio station conducted a poll asking people, "how much do you trust the mainstream media", and only 7% stated they did. When asked if they trust Trump it was well over half (I believe it was 55%).
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OreoCookie
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Aug 10, 2017, 06:19 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Do you know anyone who likes the guy?
I'm listening to Shapiro occasionally, but to me he does too much fan wanking — everything is put into Red Team–Blue Team terms. National Review's podcast is quite similar, although they do have occasionally interesting segments.

If you are interested in political podcasts that don't fit the standard partisan pattern, I recommend Dan Carlin's Common Sense (that's Mr. Hardcore History) and Pantsuit Politics (where a moderate conservative and a moderate liberal talk about the news). What I like about the second one especially is the chemistry of the two hosts, they are genuine friends who like and respect each other. Plus, they often have interesting guests (recently they interviewed someone from 538 and a former staffer of Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah)).
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The Final Dakar
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Aug 10, 2017, 11:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
No. He said as much 18 years ago.
So let me get this straight. You're quoting an old interview of a POTUS who's nomination you opposed just a year ago, that represents his views from 20 years ago, which was at a time when he was a pro-choice, pro gun control democrat.

My hat is off to you. That is some serious kool-aid drinking.
     
OreoCookie
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Aug 10, 2017, 05:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
No. He said as much 18 years ago.
You don't need to go back 18 years to get contradictory statements from Trump, you just need to comb through Trump's twitter account No, but seriously, given what we know about Trump now, why do you think Trump's statements from 2 decades ago has any bearing on what happens today?
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The Final Shortcut
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Aug 10, 2017, 10:19 PM
 
Clinton's administration was this close to getting a deal in place with North Korea. Bush's admin scrapped that approach. Now they have nukes and a pretty decent delivery system - you're not backing them down nearly as easily.

"The likes of which have never been seen" was pretty funny, though. You're gonna nuke them? Vietnam them? Berlin them? Sounds like such a great plan, Mr. President.
     
The Final Dakar
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Aug 16, 2017, 10:11 AM
 
So, who wants to say they have no problem with how Trump is handling the white supremacy issue?

Can I get a McCain like grimace up in here?
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Aug 16, 2017, 12:47 PM
 
Both extremes are a serious problem. Yes, white supremacy needs to be rejected outright, but so does Antifa and other black bloc, Marxist extremists. Only in the center is there a path to peace. Right now we need to be "radical centrists" and reject the extremes.
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Laminar
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Aug 16, 2017, 02:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Both extremes are a serious problem. Yes, white supremacy needs to be rejected outright, but so does Antifa and other black bloc, Marxist extremists.
I thought Antifa were anarchist?

Either way.

Side 1: We need to ethnically cleanse the United States. We need to create a white ethno-state. We need to drive out with violence any Jews, Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, Middle-Easterners, or any other non-white groups that don't leave of their own accord, even those that fought for this nation and have lived here for generations.

Side 2: We don't want you to succeed in your goal, it is inhumane.

"Both sides are serious problems, guys!"
     
besson3c  (op)
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Aug 16, 2017, 02:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
I thought Antifa were anarchist?

Either way.

Side 1: We need to ethnically cleanse the United States. We need to create a white ethno-state. We need to drive out with violence any Jews, Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, Middle-Easterners, or any other non-white groups that don't leave of their own accord, even those that fought for this nation and have lived here for generations.

Side 2: We don't want you to succeed in your goal, it is inhumane.

"Both sides are serious problems, guys!"

Exactly, and I don't understand the motivation behind CTP's vehement defense here.
     
The Final Dakar
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Aug 16, 2017, 02:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
I thought Antifa were anarchist?

Either way.

Side 1: We need to ethnically cleanse the United States. We need to create a white ethno-state. We need to drive out with violence any Jews, Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, Middle-Easterners, or any other non-white groups that don't leave of their own accord, even those that fought for this nation and have lived here for generations.

Side 2: We don't want you to succeed in your goal, it is inhumane.

"Both sides are serious problems, guys!"
This is what I was failing to articulate among other things in the Charlottesville thread.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Aug 16, 2017, 03:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Side 2: We don't want you to succeed in your goal, it is inhumane.

"Both sides are serious problems, guys!"
Disgraceful. I think you're more honest than that, but I could be wrong. Nazis, though verbally repellent, aren't typically violent, unless you stupidly try to "punch" them. Antifa, OTOH, are usually more quiet but much more violent.

This is just one instance, I can fill pages with more:


Antifa works to block free speech, time and again, even against ordinary conservative speakers:

https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=9435
https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=9321

If you'd like to post where US neo-nazis, no matter how shitty they admittedly are, have systematically worked to block the lawful rights of others, I'm all ears.
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Aug 16, 2017, 03:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Exactly, and I don't understand the motivation behind CTP's vehement defense here.
Because you like the rabid dogs on your "side", they're useful to you.
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Laminar
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Aug 16, 2017, 04:10 PM
 
"But the Antifa are violent!!"

Yes, we've all agreed on that. Literally no one here denies that. But you've ignored what I was saying.
     
besson3c  (op)
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Aug 16, 2017, 04:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Because you like the rabid dogs on your "side", they're useful to you.
Are you just playing devil's advocate again, or is this really what you think?

Let's hopefully put to rest the need for us to have to say one more time that the violence from Antifa was bad. We all agree upon that.

However, again, you are missing the point we are making. What do you think it is?
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Aug 16, 2017, 06:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
"But the Antifa are violent!!"

Yes, we've all agreed on that. Literally no one here denies that. But you've ignored what I was saying.
No, you aren't paying attention, they go after people who aren't white supremacists. Anyone to the Right of them is fair game:



They're behaving like rabid dogs and there's a reason their slogan is "By Any Means Necessary". Black Bloc terrorists, which have been around longer than the current iteration of the alt-Right, have opposed western society for decades. IOW, their targets aren't just neo-Nazis, or even the alt-Right, it's capitalism itself.
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Aug 16, 2017, 06:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Are you just playing devil's advocate again, or is this really what you think?
Yeah, it's what I think.



Here's CNN's Chris Cuomo trying to elevate Antifa dirtbags to the level of real soldiers, many of whom died on the beaches of Normandy that day. It's twisted.
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Laminar
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Aug 17, 2017, 09:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
No, you aren't paying attention, they go after people who aren't white supremacists.
I...never said they didn't?

You're trying awfully hard to steer the conversation away from the fact that this rally of white supremacists, Nazis, and racists literally want to turn the US into a white ethno-state.

Your'e trying to do this by pointing out that the anti-protestors are violent, which is a point absolutely no one is arguing against.

It just seems odd that you're not phased by the literal Nazis that want to ethnically cleanse your country.
     
besson3c  (op)
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Aug 17, 2017, 11:09 AM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
It just seems odd that you're not phased by the literal Nazis that want to ethnically cleanse your country.

Let's talk about this for a while, leaving the specific behaviours exhibited at Charlottesville alone for a while.

CTP, are you bothered by David Duke thanking Trump for his statements? Are you bothered by the KKK/neo-nazis seeming more energized and inspired than normal? Are you bothered by their comfort and support of the president of the US?

We know that there are ugly and radical left-wing groups, and we know that people on the left don't always exhibit positive behavior. I'm not as concerned with specific behavior on specific days than I am in general national trends. To me, these hate groups are the real problem, Charlottesville is a symptom of this problem. The president's behavior is also a concern of mine, but even this is less of an issue to me because his time in politics will eventually come to an end.

What should be done about these literal nazis that want to ethnic cleanse the country? As the US struggles Americans need to, IMO, find more empathy for each other. These groups are the exact opposite of that, and the exact opposite of the direction the US should be headed in in terms of race relations which are obviously in a very perilous state as well.

Can we talk about this, preferably without making this about the left and Hillary Clinton? After all, it is pretty apparent that these KKK/neo-nazis are predominantly fervent Trump supporters, agreed?
     
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Aug 17, 2017, 11:24 AM
 
With Naziism and white supremacy violence is inherent. Its explicitly built into the ideology. To wipe out or enslave other races or at the very least to evict them from white areas or countries.

There is further evidence of this in the way they talk. They don't calmly state opinions about genetic superiority, or a desire to peacefully segregate the races and then peacefully ignore each other afterwards, they swear a lot and display extraordinary anger towards all other races. Slurs flying all over the place.

Throwing the first punch is just a legal technicality and a calculated strategy for these Nazis. They deliberately provoke others into throwing the first punch. They hardly deserve the condemnation they've been getting for falling into the trap set for them.
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Laminar
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Aug 17, 2017, 12:30 PM
 
It sounds like you're trying to downplay the violence of the antifa, which feeds into CTP's point. You don't need to do that. The other side is literally Nazis.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Aug 17, 2017, 01:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
I...never said they didn't?

You're trying awfully hard to steer the conversation away from the fact that this rally of white supremacists, Nazis, and racists literally want to turn the US into a white ethno-state.
and you're ignoring that Antifa wants to turn it into a Marxist, communist state (which is just as bad). I agree, nazis are bad (seems conservatives have to disavow every 5 min these days), I certainly don't want what they want, but I sure as hell don't want what Antifa wants, either.

Your'e trying to do this by pointing out that the anti-protestors are violent, which is a point absolutely no one is arguing against.

It just seems odd that you're not phased by the literal Nazis that want to ethnically cleanse your country.
I am phased. The thing is, just yelling at the alt-Right and pushing them back isn't going to do anything, and neither is ignoring them, they aren't going to disappear. You can't deport them, they're US citizens, and if you try to silence them the ACLU will get injunctions to allow them to publicly protest.

But I believe they can still be reasoned with, even people like Richard Spencer (who is far from the worst). They believe in structure, in respect for authority (to a point), while Antifa certainly doesn't. They like to tear down authority and cause chaos. It also doesn't help that there are ignorant folks, even on this forum, who believe that Antifa largely "sets trash cans on fire and breaks windows".

I'm still at a loss for what to do with the nazis, other than debate them and publically expose their ideas as crap, tearing down their ideology for the world to see (maybe have a debate between Shapiro and Spencer and let Ben rip him to shreds). Antifa, OTOH, ignores dialogue and randomly shows up at things and causes harm and injury. We already have gang/anti-terrorism laws for people like that.
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Waragainstsleep
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Aug 17, 2017, 02:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
and you're ignoring that Antifa wants to turn it into a Marxist, communist state (which is just as bad). I agree, nazis are bad (seems conservatives have to disavow every 5 min these days), I certainly don't want what they want, but I sure as hell don't want what Antifa wants, either.
But why do we not see Antifa running their own violent marches to further these alleged agendas.


Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
I am phased. The thing is, just yelling at the alt-Right and pushing them back isn't going to do anything, and neither is ignoring them, they aren't going to disappear. You can't deport them, they're US citizens, and if you try to silence them the ACLU will get injunctions to allow them to publicly protest.
This is one of the most sensible things I've seen you say in ages.


Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
But I believe they can still be reasoned with, even people like Richard Spencer (who is far from the worst). They believe in structure, in respect for authority (to a point), while Antifa certainly doesn't. They like to tear down authority and cause chaos. It also doesn't help that there are ignorant folks, even on this forum, who believe that Antifa largely "sets trash cans on fire and breaks windows".
And we're back to our regularly scheduled nonsense.
Again, where are the violent Antifa rallies? Where are they seen driving cars into crowds? They are purely reactionary. No fascists, no need for anti-fascists.


Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
I'm still at a loss for what to do with the nazis, other than debate them and publically expose their ideas as crap, tearing down their ideology for the world to see (maybe have a debate between Shapiro and Spencer and let Ben rip him to shreds). Antifa, OTOH, ignores dialogue and randomly shows up at things and causes harm and injury. We already have gang/anti-terrorism laws for people like that.
On an individual basis, there is lots of anecdotal cases of racists being led to question themselves when you can separate them from their groups and then expose them to members of other races. Unfortunately its wildly impractical to send each and every last one of them on foreign exchange trips to live with families in Africa or wherever for a month each.
Education has to be the most important tool to try to address the problem, but there you've got massive cuts and Betsy DeVos trying to privatise it or whatever evil scheme she's up to so good luck with that.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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Aug 17, 2017, 02:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
It sounds like you're trying to downplay the violence of the antifa, which feeds into CTP's point. You don't need to do that. The other side is literally Nazis.
This would be true if he isn't saying what a lot of other Americans are saying (which means even more are thinking it) including your leader.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
subego
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Aug 17, 2017, 03:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
But why do we not see Antifa running their own violent marches to further these alleged agendas.
Because anarchists.
     
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Aug 17, 2017, 03:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
It sounds like you're trying to downplay the violence of the antifa, which feeds into CTP's point. You don't need to do that. The other side is literally Nazis.
     
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Aug 23, 2017, 10:54 AM
 
Reading the quotes from Trump's rally, it is interesting that he feels that the way to solve problems is by escalating all conflicts rather than de-escalating at least some of them.
     
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Aug 23, 2017, 12:43 PM
 
More distractions. This white supremacy issue actually might become the straw that eventually breaks his back.

I heard someone had filed impeachment paperwork. No mention of that here yet, is it not a big deal?
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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Aug 23, 2017, 02:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
No, you aren't paying attention, they go after people who aren't white supremacists. Anyone to the Right of them is fair game:

I'm still catching up on some of this.

A quick note about the U-LOCK assailant in this video: he was a former philosophy professor. How did I miss this news at the time?
     
subego
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Aug 23, 2017, 04:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
I heard someone had filed impeachment paperwork. No mention of that here yet, is it not a big deal?
To be honest? No.

Until there are enough votes to make it happen (not even close) it's jerking-off.

Any rational operator will say it only hurts his chances of actual impeachment, which is why it didn't happen sooner.
     
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Aug 23, 2017, 04:42 PM
 
I heard impeachment had been started also, but don't recall which person started it, SUBEGO:

ah, google gave me this adorable site:

https://thetrumpimpeachment.com/Arti...inst-Trump-to/

since that look like your uncle's slightly well-designed blog, here's rep cohen's twitter:

https://twitter.com/RepCohen
     
subego
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Aug 23, 2017, 04:45 PM
 
Impeachment is started in the House.

If the House impeaches, then the Senate decides whether to act on it.
     
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Aug 23, 2017, 04:49 PM
 
After this is laughed off, what will the Dems do next? This only hurts them later if they try again.
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Aug 23, 2017, 06:35 PM
 
I sense things might be turning on Trump at long last, but even I thought this Cohen chap had jumped the gun a bit.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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Aug 23, 2017, 06:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
After this is laughed off, what will the Dems do next? This only hurts them later if they try again.

Did all of those ACA repeal attempts hurt the Republicans?

I see the logic in saving your bullets, but in this crazy political climate it almost seems like all logical conventions can be thrown out the window.
     
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Aug 23, 2017, 09:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
I sense things might be turning on Trump at long last, but even I thought this Cohen chap had jumped the gun a bit.
Nothing's going anywhere until seats in Congress are under threat. That's not happening for 10 more months, and may not happen at all.

I get where the Democrats are coming from, but they need to get some of this discipline they're on about Trump not having, and put a lid on it.
     
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Aug 23, 2017, 10:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Did all of those ACA repeal attempts hurt the Republicans?
Yes. They looked like fools.
     
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Aug 23, 2017, 10:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Yes. They looked like fools.
To the Republican base they didn't, at least based on this small MacNN sample size. I don't recall any Republicans in here having any problems with the repeal attempts at all.
     
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Aug 23, 2017, 11:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
To the Republican base they didn't, at least based on this small MacNN sample size. I don't recall any Republicans in here having any problems with the repeal attempts at all.
Hence them having a problem with said attempts failing.

The base is not happy McCain stomped on the party's dick.
     
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Aug 24, 2017, 10:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Yes. They looked like fools.
You and I can agree on this, but the only way to know if it hurt them is if they get voted out, if their base stops supporting them. I'm not seeing that. I'm seeing doubling down.
     
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Aug 24, 2017, 10:34 AM
 
They're not doubling-down on failing to pass a bill.

The doubling-down is an assumption they can still get their act together. If they don't, people will get primaried.
     
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Sep 12, 2017, 10:57 AM
 
In my own confusion I forgot to ask what conservatives made of Trump cutting that deal with Pelosi and Schumer
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Sep 19, 2017, 12:21 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
In my own confusion I forgot to ask what conservatives made of Trump cutting that deal with Pelosi and Schumer
He's never been against Mexicans immigrating here, just when they do it illegally, and it makes sense. As a compromise, if a person has served in the military, and/or has lived here for decades w/o turning to crime (other than the illegal immigration itself, of course), they should be given a green card and offered a path to citizenship. He said this during his campaign, only the press was too busy with the 24/7 hate machine to care. Basically, as with just about everything else, he's doing what he said during his campaign. ALSO, this will give him some leverage with Dems to build the wall and to completely reform the immigration system.

Seriously, if you want to know what Trump is going to do, keep track of his campaign promises, he's trying to keep them.
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Paco500
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Sep 19, 2017, 03:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Seriously, if you want to know what Trump is going to do, keep track of his campaign promises, he's trying to keep them.
Actually, that's true.

Repeal Obamacare on day 1: Check
Build the wall: Check
Make Mexica pay for it: Check
Lock Hillary up: Check
Get out of Afghanistan: Check
Not take vacations/Play golf: Check
Release his Tax Returns: Check
Bring back waterboarding/enhanced interrogation: Check

And on and on and on.

Oh, wait, he's done none of that.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Sep 19, 2017, 04:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by Paco500 View Post
Actually, that's true.
I know it is, with the exception of Obamacare he's virtually erased Obama's legacy, and in only 6 months. If you think; Obamacare isn't going to be replaced, the Wall isn't going to happen, and Hillary isn't going to be indicted, you're high. There are a lot of people who believe change must happen overnight, it's likely why you're on the Left, but that's not how federal politics works. When you do rush changes they become a disaster (see the afore-mentioned Obamacare), like everything the Democratic party has attempted over the last decade.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
subego
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Sep 19, 2017, 07:05 AM
 
Erase Obama's legacy?

Looks at NSA... still spying on me.
Looks at Middle East... still getting drone ****ed.
Looks at Gulf of Mexico... still covered in oil.
     
subego
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Sep 19, 2017, 07:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
He's never been against Mexicans immigrating here, just when they do it illegally, and it makes sense. As a compromise, if a person has served in the military, and/or has lived here for decades w/o turning to crime (other than the illegal immigration itself, of course), they should be given a green card and offered a path to citizenship. He said this during his campaign, only the press was too busy with the 24/7 hate machine to care. Basically, as with just about everything else, he's doing what he said during his campaign. ALSO, this will give him some leverage with Dems to build the wall and to completely reform the immigration system.

Seriously, if you want to know what Trump is going to do, keep track of his campaign promises, he's trying to keep them.
He did promise to not chuck people who have lived here for decades without turning to crime, and people were being unfair to him by not acknowledging it.

Then, a month or two ago, he flipped. I'm not sure of the status of those who served in the military, but the policy which allowed crime-free, long-term illegals to stay was revoked.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Sep 19, 2017, 08:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
He did promise to not chuck people who have lived here for decades without turning to crime, and people were being unfair to him by not acknowledging it.

Then, a month or two ago, he flipped. I'm not sure of the status of those who served in the military, but the policy which allowed crime-free, long-term illegals to stay was revoked.
I know he flipped, but as it turned out it was a ploy so he could flip back, as he's doing with the Pelosi and Schumer deal (so that they'll be more willing to work with him on the wall and immigration reform). None of the "Dreamers" who aren't criminals will be deported, it was never his intention, it was a gambit.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
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Sep 19, 2017, 08:21 AM
 
If he stays the course, then good on him.

Some water needs to go under this bridge before I'm convinced.
     
 
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