[SQLDba]

Okay - so I just ordered my new Apple laptop. Wife is a teacher so the education discount kicked in which is nice. But as a part of the process, I have exposed the REAL reason why Apple laptops are so much more expensive than their windows counterparts. Let me explain.

As a long time windows user, (although previous owner of the original Fat Mac (512)) I was interested in revisiting the Macintosh OS. Since it wouldn't be my primary computer, I looked at the laptops. iBook pricing on the 12" looked good at just under $1k (again Ed discounts here) but then I started adding options (those damn dropdown menus....) RAM, wifi etc. and the 12" Powerbook started looking pretty competitive.

So I start building my 12"PB - and I gotta get the faster HD, and start w/ 512m etc etc and then Tiger is announced - and I start thinking that I should get the fastest proc I can afford, as I know Tiger is going to want more juice. So I jump to the 15" 1.5 ghz. Well, you can't get that without the 128 video upgrade, and again with the faster HD - and the single 512 dimm is a no-brainer....

So the smoke clears, and I have the perfect PB with all the trimmings + AppCare and FCE - and I've jumped from $999 to $2750+ - and you can't order a machine THAT nice and NOT have expedited shipping.....

Fortunately, my research took a little longer because I needed that extra month to a)read enough to discover that this might just be my primary machine and b) ebay my Thinkpad to cover the difference in what I started with and what I ended up with....

All I can say is the 29th of July can't get here soon enough.

[cewade]

I honestly couldn't tell if your post was a joke or not, but I'll cover a few angles just in case.

1) They are expensive because you have no self control.

2) Congrats on the new purchase, those damn dropdown menus got me too.

3) Price/Worth performance ratio of Powerbooks is a lot higher than other copanies' laptops.


So yeah, it's 2 AM and Im rambling. have fun with teh new PBook

[wuzup101]

Talk about lack of self control... lol just kidding man I did the same damn thing.

One point I should add is that you have to compare the powerbook line to high end PC laptops (IBM T42 thinkpad comes to mind). Both have a lot of great features... only one runs OSX... lol Anyway, most people look at powerbooks and compare them to the Best Buy special that you can get for 1000 that doesn't come with blue tooth, wireless, isn't as powerful, weighs twice as much and all together isn't in the same class as the Powerbook. If you go configure an IBM T42 with all the standard 15" PB stuff (high end video, bluetooth, dvd-rw, etc... the prices are also comparable. I configured both a dell latitude 500 (or 505... forget exactly) and a T42 and both of those with my edu discount were more expensive than the PB with edu discount. I also got a student ADC membership which gave me some added benifit (free copy of tiger when it comes out will more than make up the cost)...

Anyway... just my 2 cents!

[cszar2001]

PB`s are not that expensive. I was thinking about buying a high end Sony Vaio instead of the 17''.
The price difference was a measly 100 bucks.
And PB�s have a much higher resale value.

[Dr.Michael]

Originally posted by SQLDba:
... and then Tiger is announced - and I start thinking that I should get the fastest proc I can afford, as I know Tiger is going to want more juice.

You are a great customer. Makes me want to own a company :o)

But in one thing you might be wrong: From the beginning on every new version of OS X was FASTER than the previous one. I cannot say if this ends with Tiger, but until now old machines always performed better with the latest versions of OS X.

This is not Windows.

[romeosc]

Powerbooks are more expensive than others, but they retain resale value much longer.

The prices are higher.........






"BECAUSE WE WILL PAY MORE FOR WHAT WE WANT!"

[tooki]

Apple laptops really aren't that expensive at all.

Low-end PC laptops (the ones that compare to iBooks, price-wise) have lousy, lousy graphics (no real GPU, just that goofy "integrated video") and are huge and heavy.

Midrange PCs may give you the same features as a PowerBook for less money, but they're large, thick and heavy.

When you look at PCs that are as full-featured as a PowerBook, and as light and thin as a PowerBook, they're the same price.

Why is this?

Well, on the desktop, PCs use far more "commodity" components than Macs. They can use, for example, generic motherboards and cases. In a Mac, many of those components are custom-made. This is why cheap desktop PCs are a lot cheaper than the cheapest desktop Macs.

In laptops, that all changes. Regardless of whether it's a Mac or PC, in a laptop, almost all the components except the LCD, RAM and the drives are custom. Even PC laptops use custom everything. At that point, it doesn't much matter whether it'll be a Mac or PC, because all the parts have to be custom-made anyway.

tooki

[SQLDba]

Tooki - you raise an excellent point about commodity components. As a windows user and actual MS proponent - I know that one of the reasons why Macs are so much more stable is that the hardware is so tightly controlled. Not only from a QA perspective - but just the variations. There are 100s of motherboards, video cards, audio cards etc. and tens of thousands of drivers - all of which have to work perfectly or you get the blue screen. Mac's (and Unix boxes in general) don't have that kind of variation in their systems. So the underlying platform is consistent and you have a very stable environment. Jobs and Co. take a lot of flak for keeping the hardware so tightly controlled - but there is a great advantage as a result.

Overall I don't think the powerbooks are any more expensive than any other platform. I was more tongue in cheek about where I started and where I ended up. Its the drop downs!!! But seriously, how can you not throw another $90 toward the machine to get the 128 med video? or the 5400 rpm? or the single 512 dimm? Here I go again.....

Resale value is not to be ignored - but, it's not the reason to go Mac versus PC. Resale value is the reason to go IBM versus eMachine. It's the same argument about Linux v.s. PC. That's not where the decision is - it's PC v.s Unix - then once you decide on Unix, it's Linux v. Solaris v. Mac v. HPUX. I just really doubt that anyone here chose a Mac over a PC because it holds its value more.

That said, I was disappointed that my 6 month old $2600 IBM T41p thinkpad didn't get more than $1800 on resale....

One other point about the old hardware working better on the new OS. I think there are a ton of Mac users out there running on 5+ year old machines and doing just fine - while I think the percentage of PC users in the same predicament is much lower. If you are going to calculate total cost of ownership you have to take that into account. I truly believe that this PB I'm getting will have a much longer useful life than the PC I am typing this post on....

[Dog Like Nature]

Originally posted by SQLDba:
- and the single 512 dimm is a no-brainer....

Not sure I agree with this.

Add on $100 for the single 512 SODIMM from Apple, or stay with the two 256es and then buy a 512 SODIMM for around $100 from Crucial afterwards.

The end result is the same RAM configuration, but I've got two 256 SODIMMS left over!

[hldan]

I'll second that "what Tooki mentioned". Take a good look at the Sony Vaio notebooks. No cheaper than the Mac notebooks. In some cases the Sony Vaio cost more, especially if you do CTO. I had been checking out the Sony Vaio 17" notebook which was well hyped up when it first came out because of the new Intel Dothan processor. The Sony is the same price as the Powerbook 17".

The Sony does offer gigabit ethernet but only on the docking station.
Bluetooth is only available if you order it online.
The external speakers only work with the docking station.
The Vaio's notebooks have the cheap pop and clunky optical drive.
Of course the i.Link (so-called firewire) (fake firewire) does not power devices like Apple Firewire. Notice how PC's have to use the USB port to charge the iPod's?

These are just a few things in terms of hardware alone and you still pay the same price for the Powerbook as you do the Sony Vaio. You get more built-in features with the Powerbook.
I'm using Sony Vaio's for example because they are the "Apple" in the PC world.
It's important to really backup statements when saying the Powerbooks cost more.

[wedgewood]

Powerbook/PowerMac are expensive. What I mean by "expensive" is that Apple makes large profits compared to HP/Dell when it sells high-priced product. There is a good reson for Apple to keep its price policy. Apple barely make profits by selling ibook/emac. The low-priced Apple products should be important for Apple to hold a market share. Education market is also important. The profits coming from selling powerbook/powermac also flow to develope low-end products, ibook/emac.

[hldan]

Originally posted by wedgewood:
Powerbook/PowerMac are expensive. What I mean by "expensive" is that Apple makes large profits compared to HP/Dell when it sells high-priced product. There is a good reson for Apple to keep its price policy. Apple barely make profits by selling ibook/emac. The low-priced Apple products should be important for Apple to hold a market share. Education market is also important. The profits coming from selling powerbook/powermac also flow to develope low-end products, ibook/emac.

How is it that you actually know about Apple's profit margins?

[Mac Zealot]

If I'm able to get a PB soon enough it'll either be a stock 17" or a previous gen 1.33ghz 17".

$2399 and 2499 through EDU respectively. And I thought I had no self control

[wei]

you can get 128MB VRAM on 12" PB? this is something new for me. i though only 15" and 17" will have an option to upgrade to 128MB.

[HasanDaddy]

In 2001, one had to save around $5000 for a PB

$2000 for a good PB now!

keep the low prices coming!

[wedgewood]

How do I know that? A friend from Cupertino told me the behind story.

[hldan]

Originally posted by wedgewood:
How do I know that? A friend from Cupertino told me the behind story.

Well, if that's true that Apple is making a huge profit from the markup of the Powerbooks then more power to them. That's really awesome if you think about it.
If Apple isn't making a good profit off the hardware then we won't see much more of the Macintosh in the future.
Apple is a business just like Walmart, they are in the business to make money. Nothing wrong with that.
Think of the some of the PC companies that are being forced to sell cheap machines or even worse going out of the PC business ( Ex. Packard Bell) because they are losing sales to Dell.

[Snake]

The shipping wait is horrible isn't it?

The 2 day Fedex delivery ends up taking 5 days on a BTO (at least for me), but ground shipping on a BTO computer takes around 2 weeks from order to your house.

I wasn't too happy that I couldnt have a custom-built laptop made at my local mac store, so they dropped 75 bucks off my bill!

[SketchPad]

The powerbook series is a pure design genius.
Not even today - have apple been surpassed on this one.

I have the 17" incher and have had it for 5-6 months,
it is by far the most comfortable, most ingenious designed
laptop I've ever had the pleasure of owning.
Yes..it cost me a small fortune..yes...I am still paying for it..

but you know what?

No computer has made me feel like this for over 20 years,
the last time I had this feeling over a computer was when
I got my first Commodore-64.

This thing is amazingly small and thin, yet has a HUGE
no...wait....GIGANTIC screen that is as WIDE as my desktop
19" incher - and is yet lighter than any PC laptop I've owned.

It has the advantages of lifes little comforts...I can take it
with me to bed and wirelessly read my favourite online
newspapers & forums without burning up.

I can watch movies with it (and I prefer to watch movies on this
baby because it's just pure pleasure...) Not to mention
the fact I can actually produce the movies on it and burn
it to dvd in a slot in drive that isn't in the way wherever I am.

One of those things that used to annoy me with portable
pc's where ...the drives popped out...and I had to take great
care...because they felt so weak and ....breakable...the slot
in drive in a Super-thin design is just amazing...it doesn't
fail at all.

It doesn't miss the wireless systems like pc's do either.
I stay connected when I re-open my Powerbook lid...without
having to go trough the fuzz of re-connecting to my wireless
network.

And the bluetooth...whatever device I throw at it just work.

this laptop is everything we paid for - and more!