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tictactoe · Jan 10, 2005, 04:45 PM

I'm really looking forward to switching over to the Apple platform (from Windows), but I don't know whether now is a good time or not.

I'm looking into getting a 15" Powerbook with the student discount. Now this has probably been discussed a million times over, but approximately how far away are G5 PB's? I can live with a speed increase (i.e. I buy the 1.33ghz PB, and they bump it up to 1.5ghz, and bump the 1.5ghz model to 1.7 or something), but I wouldn't be able to live with a new processor/design being released less than a year after my purchase.

So the main question is, if I buy a 15" PB within a few months, will I be disappointed by a complete overhaul (design/CPU) within a year after my purchase?

Thanks in advance guys

tkmd · 04:59 PM

Bad time. People are prediciting speed bumps in the current line of PB. Just wait a week. As for the PB G5- its not worth waiting. Even the current crop of 1.5 Ghz G4's will outperform a G5 at this "low " clockspeed. The power of the G5 really doesnt start to show until G5's speed is 1.8 or faster. I think there was a bare feats shoot out on this.

But seriously, if your thinking about switching there really isn't a better time than now. I have a 1.5 PB and I really like it. Its fast enough to run multiple tasks at once and IMO plenty fast. Sure a Pentium M is faster clock for clock- but it runs Windows. The Mac OS IMO is much more elegant- not to mention safer. Just ask people who have switched - I challenge you to find one that wants to switch back to windows.

If you would like to save money and need a laptop soon- Id wait if new PBs are anounced and then get the current ones at discount.

f1000 · Jan 10, 2005, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by tictactoe:
Now this has probably been discussed a million times over, but approximately how far away are G5 PB's?

Nobody knows for sure, but I do suggest that you at least wait until after Steve Jobs' keynote on Tuesday to buy anything from Apple.

tictactoe · Jan 10, 2005, 04:52 PM

I'm ok with a small speed bump, but if I were to buy a 1.33ghz G4 PB and the G5 PB came out 8 months later, I would not be too happy.

wiffmaster · Jan 10, 2005, 05:30 PM

I'm in the same situation as you. I've decided to get a 15 incher (

) tommorow if the updates to the G4 are announced. The way I look at it is, it's likely to be at least 8 months till the G5, nobody knows how long it will take to overcome heat/battery issues. They can't solve them now, how do they know they can solve them in 8 months? And, as said before, it won't be that much quicker at the low speeds, plus it'd be a revision A machine, so probably some problems.

You could wait forever, something better is always around the corner. If you need it, get one, if not, get one anyway!

tictactoe · Jan 10, 2005, 06:18 PM

Originally posted by wiffmaster:
I'm in the same situation as you. I've decided to get a 15 incher ( ) tommorow if the updates to the G4 are announced. The way I look at it is, it's likely to be at least 8 months till the G5, nobody knows how long it will take to overcome heat/battery issues. They can't solve them now, how do they know they can solve them in 8 months? And, as said before, it won't be that much quicker at the low speeds, plus it'd be a revision A machine, so probably some problems.

You could wait forever, something better is always around the corner. If you need it, get one, if not, get one anyway!

You make a really good point. So even if they do announce it tomorrow, it will probably be a long way off? The whole revision A thing is also a really good point. I would not like to have a laptop that is constantly having problems. Also, the battery life/heat issue would probably be bothersome.

wiffmaster · Jan 10, 2005, 06:48 PM

I'm pretty sure thay won't even mention Powerbooks tomorrow. If they do mention them, it'll have to be a G5 processor in them, which just isn't happening unless Apple have performed a miracle!

They'll announce G5 in Powerbooks at WWDC at end of June, and they'll ship them in August time.

Steve Jobs isn't going to mention them if they are still G4 machines - all he'll be able to say is, we've given them a 1.67 Ghz speed boost, not worth mentioning on stage as not that impressive.

I think they'll update PB them soon, but not on stage as such, they'll just do it quietly like with ibooks.

I think people will be really dissapointed tommorrow when Steve doesn't even mention Powerbooks at all.

When the G4 updates do come though, i'll get one rather than wait for the g5.

chrisutley · Jan 10, 2005, 06:59 PM

I guarantee Steve will mention speed bumped PB's, and will make some remark about the challenges of putting a G5 in a PowerBook enclosure.

Zitax · Jan 10, 2005, 07:26 PM

If Speed Bump PB's are anounced tomorrow, when will they be available for shipping ?
Cause in case they are anounced, maybe you have to wait a month or two to get one.
What do you guys think ?

Cheetah223 · Jan 10, 2005, 08:19 PM

Well I've heard that along with the speed bumps there's going to be 128mb VRAM standard, I'd assume that'd open up the option for 256mb for a little more money. I'm hoping to see a 7200rpm internal drive with the 5400 coming standard, but haven't heard that mentioned much anywhere so I dunno if that's any more than a pipe dream. I'm going to be getting a pbook before June, but depending on announcements that are made this week and throughout the next 5 months I may be forced to wait for a G5, or just go with the bumped G4. Some people are circulating rumors about cosmetic changes to the G4 to accompany the speed bumps, but I highly doubt that. I'd say give it until tomorrow at least so you can hear what comes of Steve's keynote, then decide whether you're going to wait or not. Supposedly prices are to drop with the speed bump, so waiting may save you money as well.

madboy86 · Jan 11, 2005, 12:47 AM

Hum, but if you order this revision, aren't you going to miss out on Tiger? Than would they make you pay again to by Tiger once it comes out?

How long are we talking here if you don't want a REV A version of G5 powerbook? Prob like 1 and 1/2 years !? In which case now would be the best time to buy after the revision, but aren't we going to pay top dollar and not even get Tiger which is coming out in a few month?

Albert Pujols · Jan 11, 2005, 01:06 AM

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthre...hreadid=104262

New Powerbook updates!!!!!!

Only that the updates suck

tictactoe · Jan 11, 2005, 02:22 AM

You guys have been amazing. I don't think I've ever received so much great feedback on ANY forum I've requested help on. Big thanks to you guys.

I have a couple other non-related questions. I don't think I need to create another thread for it though.

What is the battery life like on a 15" PB when doing basic word processing/wifi? How is it compared to a 12" PB? Also, is the screen real estate on the 15" worth the extra $400? My main uses for the laptop will be school related, some photoshop, some gaming, music/movies and I do plan on taking it to school with me. I have a 17" LCD at home (1280x1024, DVI) that I can hook it up to as well. Is it worth it for me to spend the extra money on the bigger screen?

Another big thanks in advance!

Fiete5401 · Jan 11, 2005, 08:00 AM

Originally posted by wiffmaster:
I'm pretty sure thay won't even mention Powerbooks tomorrow. If they do mention them, it'll have to be a G5 processor in them, which just isn't happening unless Apple have performed a miracle!

I think people will be really dissapointed tommorrow when Steve doesn't even mention Powerbooks at all.

I think that he will not mention the speedbump too.
But... who cares?
I'll only be disappointed if the Apple Store goes online after the show without bumped 'Books.

I was David B. · Jan 11, 2005, 04:27 PM

You don't write were you live.

If you were in Europe, it is the best time ever to buy a Powerbook because the dollar is down on the ground and the Euro is ready to buy the world.
As long as Georgie Porgies crappy politics goes on like that buying a powerbook might become even cheaper.

If you are thinking about the G5... Its always a bad time. A golden rule is: never buy a rev a from Apple unless you don't know where to store your money. Rev b of the G5 Powerbook is a little while ahead.

The G4 powerbooks are very mature now. For the 12 inch I can say, rev a was bad, rev b is already great. Rev c seems also to be a very good choice. So you cannot go wrong with a g4 powerbook now. What do you want with a bad rev a g5 if you can get a great g4 now - and cheap?

tictactoe · Jan 13, 2005, 03:07 AM

I live in America.

Was anything revealed about speed bumps in the PB line?

Randman · Jan 13, 2005, 03:12 AM

Nothing revealed, but that doesn't mean anything. A quiet bump in performance likely wouldn't call for a large announcement. If you can wait a few weeks, do so.

Also, you'd likely get a coupon showing your purchase that would give you a big discount on Tiger, if it's released in say three months from the date of your purchase, which is also likely.

Pierre B. · Jan 13, 2005, 03:51 AM

Originally posted by tictactoe:
What is the battery life like on a 15" PB when doing basic word processing/wifi? How is it compared to a 12" PB?

I don't have a 15" Powerbook and I cannot comment on that, sorry.

Also, is the screen real estate on the 15" worth the extra $400? My main uses for the laptop will be school related, some photoshop, some gaming, music/movies and I do plan on taking it to school with me. I have a 17" LCD at home (1280x1024, DVI) that I can hook it up to as well. Is it worth it for me to spend the extra money on the bigger screen?

I am afraid this is up to you to decide, really. You will see many different opinions on that, it depends on what do you consider more important: portability, in which the 12" cannot be beat, vs. screen estate, especially when you already have a 17" LCD; keep in mind though that the 15" Powerbooks have a substantially more powerful graphics subsystem than the 12" ones. And a nicer display (brightness and color).

Pierre B. · Jan 13, 2005, 03:57 AM

Originally posted by tictactoe:
I'm really looking forward to switching over to the Apple platform (from Windows), but I don't know whether now is a good time or not.

Wait until the end of this month. It is almost certain that a Powerbook update will come until then. Not something very big (we expect a maximum clock speed of 1.67 GHz), but other features may see improvements too.

senseigmg · Jan 13, 2005, 11:06 AM

Maybe I just went nuts hoping for a new one, but I just placed an order yesterday, after waiting about 1.5 months. On their website, apple says pb's ship within 3 days. However, nothing on my order ships before the 18th. Mean anything

electric monk · Jan 13, 2005, 11:44 AM

Not particularly.

I will point out that if they release speed bumped ones they'll bump your order before it gets to you, or you have 10? (I've heard 60, but that seems way too high) days to go switch it for free I believe. If they release a speed bumped one within 10 days after you get yours that is.

senseigmg · Jan 13, 2005, 11:51 AM

You serious???? That would be sweet. I've been wondering if they would do that, but maybe not since I got the 80gb, would that matter for having a custom pb? Also I learned yesterday that I get iLife'05 for 20 bux, which is also sweet.

amerino · Jan 13, 2005, 09:24 PM

Originally posted by tictactoe:

What is the battery life like on a 15" PB when doing basic word processing/wifi? How is it compared to a 12" PB? Also, is the screen real estate on the 15" worth the extra $400? My main uses for the laptop will be school related, some photoshop, some gaming, music/movies and I do plan on taking it to school with me. I have a 17" LCD at home (1280x1024, DVI) that I can hook it up to as well. Is it worth it for me to spend the extra money on the bigger screen?

I can't compare the battery life to a 12" PB since I haven't used one, but I do own the higher end 15" G4 PB and being the coffee addict I am, I use it incessantly and my battery regularly gives me over 2 hours constantly, typically between 2:15 - 2:30 depending on what I'm doing. Generally, my use involves iTunes, multiple tabbed windows in Safari and/or FireFox, Adium, Mail, and perhaps Sherlock, Acquisition or some other application; the battery life will change as you open more and more programs, but I can safely say that for the last 8-10 months I've consistently had 2+ hours regardless.

If you can afford it, I'd also recommend an extra battery if you're going to use it a lot. It always comes in handy, it's easy to swap out, and it frees me from having to sit on top of an outlet.

ichibod · Jan 13, 2005, 09:48 PM

Originally posted by senseigmg:
Maybe I just went nuts hoping for a new one, but I just placed an order yesterday, after waiting about 1.5 months. On their website, apple says pb's ship within 3 days. However, nothing on my order ships before the 18th. Mean anything

It may not mean anything. The local college store here put in an order for $33,000 worth of stuff, and it got delayed until the 18th. Pretty much anything ordered this week is getting diverted until next week, post MLK Day.

USNA91 · Jan 14, 2005, 04:20 PM

Originally posted by tkmd:

But seriously, if your thinking about switching there really isn't a better time than now. I have a 1.5 PB and I really like it. Its fast enough to run multiple tasks at once and IMO plenty fast. Sure a Pentium M is faster clock for clock- but it runs Windows. The Mac OS IMO is much more elegant- not to mention safer. Just ask people who have switched - I challenge you to find one that wants to switch back to windows.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAA-MEN!

I switched a little over two months ago, to a PB G4 15 loaded.

I ain't NEVER going back!

USNA91 · Jan 14, 2005, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by Pierre B.:
Wait until the end of this month. It is almost certain that a Powerbook update will come until then. Not something very big (we expect a maximum clock speed of 1.67 GHz), but other features may see improvements too.

Not that it's a priority, but any chances any of those might be back-fitted into earlier versions?

tictactoe · Jan 15, 2005, 12:58 AM

I took a trip to the Apple store tonight and came VERY close to picking up a 12" PB. I was thinking about the iBook (you might have seen my post over in the iBook forum), but the keyboard of the iBook absolutely kills it for me.

So speed bumps should arrive sometime near the end of the month? When will the new OS X be released?

tortfeasor · Jan 15, 2005, 02:48 AM

Powerbooks at the US apple store are now 7-10 business days if you select any of the built to order options.

This signals new models are around the corner.

tictactoe · Jan 15, 2005, 10:02 PM

I bit the bullet and picked up a 12" Powerbook. It is awesome.`

Simon · Jan 16, 2005, 04:57 AM

Originally posted by tictactoe:
I bit the bullet and picked up a 12" Powerbook. It is awesome.`

Congrats! Are you using it with an external display? At what temperatures is it running? Fan noise?

Randman · Jan 16, 2005, 04:59 AM

Originally posted by tortfeasor:
Powerbooks at the US apple store are now 7-10 business days if you select any of the built to order options.

This signals new models are around the corner.

No, it does not. It signals that a weekend and a public holiday are around the corner.

tictactoe · Jan 16, 2005, 05:03 AM

I'm just using the screen on the laptop for now. I will hook it up to my 17" LCD at a later time.

Temps are:

Battery: 31.0 C
Proc topside: 45.8 C
Graphics processor die: 54.5 C
HD drive bottomside: 44.8 C
SMART disk hitachi: 41.0 C

Simon · Jan 16, 2005, 05:13 AM

Originally posted by tictactoe:
I'm just using the screen on the laptop for now. I will hook it up to my 17" LCD at a later time.

I'd be very interested to see if the temperatures increase much with the attached 17" display.

tictactoe · Jan 16, 2005, 11:07 PM

Originally posted by tictactoe:
I'm just using the screen on the laptop for now. I will hook it up to my 17" LCD at a later time.

Temps are:

Battery: 31.0 C
Proc topside: 45.8 C
Graphics processor die: 54.5 C
HD drive bottomside: 44.8 C
SMART disk hitachi: 41.0 C

Temps connected to a 17" monitor (running both the 12" and the 17") are:

Temps are:

Battery: 25.0 C
Proc topside: 41.5 C
Graphics processor die: 54.5 C
HD drive bottomside: 44.8 C
SMART disk hitachi: 35.0 C

Cheetah223 · Jan 17, 2005, 12:29 AM

That's odd, did you have it running as long with the 17" attached? It seems backwards that the temps would drop..

ChrisF · Jan 17, 2005, 12:30 AM

Originally posted by Randman:
No, it does not. It signals that a weekend and a public holiday are around the corner.

Weekends and holidays are not business days. If components are in stock with Apple, the est. ship date does not change regardless of whether or not it's a weekend or holiday. Ship date for CTO Powerbooks have been very low up until the past couple of days. I've been checking regularly since I'm waiting to buy.

tictactoe · Jan 17, 2005, 12:50 AM

Originally posted by Cheetah223:
That's odd, did you have it running as long with the 17" attached? It seems backwards that the temps would drop..

Yes, the 17" was attached. I'm guessing it might have to do with my room being very cold.

Simon · Jan 17, 2005, 03:47 AM

Originally posted by tictactoe:
Yes, the 17" was attached. I'm guessing it might have to do with my room being very cold.

Yeah, I thought something like that could be the reason. The temps are a little low. What temps do you get at 'normal' room temp of, let's say, 20C?

Dr.Michael · Jan 17, 2005, 04:13 AM

Originally posted by Simon:
Yeah, I thought something like that could be the reason. The temps are a little low. What temps do you get at 'normal' room temp of, let's say, 20C?

Yes, and please report how frequently the fan runs with the display attached.

We know that the fan runs permanently with a 20 inch display attached. So we are desperately waiting for 1280*1024 data and hope to find out that this setup lets the powerbook run cooler compared to an attached 20 inch display.

Randman · Jan 17, 2005, 04:19 AM

What are the Energy Saver settings? I would think that would have a greater impact on the fan usage than being connected to an external.
Are you using it in close mode or open? Do you have an iCurve or something to give the PB a little ventilation?

Simon · Jan 17, 2005, 04:30 AM

Originally posted by Randman:
What are the Energy Saver settings? I would think that would have a greater impact on the fan usage than being connected to an external.

You would think?

This is not about 'would'. We are talking solid experience in using these devices here. This is no theoretical debate, it's a question of temperature readings under actual everyday use conditions.

If you follow all the 12" heat/fan threads here you will realize that having an external display plugged in is a very important factor when it comes to fan noise and temperatures. It is far more crucial than open or closed lid, or energy saver settings. When you're idle, energy saving settings has zero effect on temp.

Attaching a 20" ACD has a +7C effect on my rev B. 12". Nothing else (save ambient temperature) has such an effect on the idle temperature.
[/rant]

Now, to get back to the tests, we'd be interested in seeing rev C 12" temperatures w/ and w/o external display at an ambient temperature of roughly 20C under load (auto, low and high CPU settings) as well as idle. And it would be nice to know what the fan temperature threshold is. We have this data for the rev A and rev B, but it would be very nice to see it on a rev C as well.

Randman · Jan 17, 2005, 07:17 AM

Originally posted by Simon:
If you follow all the 12" heat/fan threads here you will realize that having an external display plugged in is a very important factor when it comes to fan noise and temperatures.

Another reason why I love my PB17, it actually runs cooler than my former iBook.

tictactoe · Jan 17, 2005, 12:27 PM

Originally posted by Dr.Michael:
Yes, and please report how frequently the fan runs with the display attached.

We know that the fan runs permanently with a 20 inch display attached. So we are desperately waiting for 1280*1024 data and hope to find out that this setup lets the powerbook run cooler compared to an attached 20 inch display.

To be completely honest, I can't really tell when the fan is running on this thing. It is so faint that it just blends in with other noises. As far as I know, connected to my 17", the fan does not come on often at all (if ever).

zolagol · Jan 18, 2005, 09:34 PM

i'm no where near the expert or connaisseur most of you are, however to me the one thing that i've known since October 30, 2004 (the day i bought a PBook) is that this is a piece of art and a technological marvel.....i am totally enamoured (if that's possible with an inatimate object) with my PBook...

Simon · Jan 19, 2005, 04:18 AM

Originally posted by tictactoe:
To be completely honest, I can't really tell when the fan is running on this thing. It is so faint that it just blends in with other noises. As far as I know, connected to my 17", the fan does not come on often at all (if ever).

You might want to try playing a 3D game like CoD or MoH in a quiet and decently heated house. I assure you, after 15 minutes of playing your PB will roar. That noise is the fan. Stop playing and let the PowerBook idle (not sleep, just idle) and you will here then fan reduce its speed. At some point it will stop. Then try the reverse again. There is no way you can't here then fan when it turns on.

If it's not on, then either your PowerBook doesn't have enough load, or you're using it outdoors only and you live in Siberia.

kennedy · Jan 21, 2005, 12:43 AM

Originally posted by ChrisF:
Weekends and holidays are not business days. If components are in stock with Apple, the est. ship date does not change regardless of whether or not it's a weekend or holiday. Ship date for CTO Powerbooks have been very low up until the past couple of days. I've been checking regularly since I'm waiting to buy.

I could only wait until MWSF, then had to order... when I ordered my CTO 12", it said 6-8 days... but it shipped in 2-3! I am typing on it now... keyboard has a different feel than my rev A 12".

senseigmg · Jan 21, 2005, 02:51 AM

I'm on my new 12"PB and loving it.

tictactoe · Jan 21, 2005, 02:54 AM

Originally posted by senseigmg:
I'm on my new 12"PB and loving it.

Same here. I just set up Mail and iCal. Next on my list of things to do is to get a Sony Ericsson T637 so I can make full use of iSync

kennedy · Jan 21, 2005, 10:09 AM

Originally posted by zolagol:
i'm no where near the expert or connaisseur most of you are, however to me the one thing that i've known since October 30, 2004 (the day i bought a PBook) is that this is a piece of art and a technological marvel.....i am totally enamoured (if that's possible with an inatimate object) with my PBook...

You should send it back and get a new one... if its inanimate.
They're so much more beautiful when they live and breathe (you can even see it breathing while it sleeps... its so cute).

sorry