Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

BadKosh · Sep 9, 2010, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

Wow, just wow.

What a undifferentiated and illogical view.

Maybe you shouldn't throw everything in the kitchen sink, run the garbage disposal, and then try to read anything into the results.

-t

You actually think logically? Proofs?

turtle777 · Sep 9, 2010, 03:24 PM

Did someone hear the same noise I just heard ?

-t

besson3c · Sep 9, 2010, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

Did someone hear the same noise I just heard ?

-t

Yeah, that was me... Sorry, that hot dog made me pretty flatulent.

sek929 · Sep 9, 2010, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by BadKosh

You actually think logically? Proofs?

I'd start with anyone you disagree with most likely has a better grasp of logic than you.

Also, does anyone else find it telling that one of our resident Conservatives (Turtle) thinks BadKosh has gone to far with his rhetoric? Not a jab at you Turtle, but when he can't even garner support from your end of the spectrum then something is very wrong with his reasoning.

BadKosh · Sep 9, 2010, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

So is your contention that the billions of Muslims wish violence upon us and are all radical? Use your head, this is common sense. If the billions of Muslims that existed all felt as strongly as the Al Queda, there would be no world order - at all.

Again with being unable to understand what you read. I have not EVER said all Muslims are extremists. I said The moderates (if any exist) have been quiet, suggesting they are not that moderate. My office mate is Muslim and we discuss lots of issues that are of concern to us both. We both agree the "AH" in Fla shouldn't burn the Korans for the risks to our citizens(which there shouldn't be if the Muslims were more housebroken and mature) and we both agree that the Mosque at ground zero is a tasteless and inflamatory act, which calls into question the motives of those involved.

BadKosh · Sep 9, 2010, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by sek929

I'd start with anyone you disagree with most likely has a better grasp of logic than you.

Also, does anyone else find it telling that one of our resident Conservatives (Turtle) thinks BadKosh has gone to far with his rhetoric? Not a jab at you Turtle, but when he can't even garner support from your end of the spectrum then something is very wrong with his reasoning.

Since when does consensus equal logic? As far as logic, I used to teach it along with Schedule and Project Management to Aerospace engineers. 11 years writing IBM 360 Assembly and 8 years teaching and writing ARTEMIS code as well.

besson3c · Sep 9, 2010, 03:34 PM

Does not compute. Moderate Muslims have been quiet, so therefore they are not moderate? Huh?

besson3c · Sep 9, 2010, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by BadKosh

Since when does consensus equal logic? As far as logic, I used to teach it along with Schedule and Project Management to Aerospace engineers. 11 years writing IBM 360 Assembly and 8 years teaching and writing ARTEMIS code as well.

Weren't you the one that was saying that Fox's viewership consensus means that they don't peddle in lies? Does not compute.

The Final Dakar · Sep 9, 2010, 03:37 PM

I said The moderates (if any exist) have been quiet, suggesting they are not that moderate.

Explain this logic.

sek929 · Sep 9, 2010, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by BadKosh

Since when does consensus equal logic? As far as logic, I used to teach it along with Schedule and Project Management to Aerospace engineers. 11 years writing IBM 360 Assembly and 8 years teaching and writing ARTEMIS code as well.

Care to make the connection between writing code and the logic of political debates?

I'm sure you were very good at your job, but I fail to see how it proves you are a logic master.

BadKosh · Sep 9, 2010, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

Weren't you the one that was saying that Fox's viewership consensus means that they don't peddle in lies? Does not compute.

Reading comprehension problems? I implied that viewership was down at the lefty spinning MSM because of their lies and spin. They chased away their viewers. People don't hang around liars for the same reason.

besson3c · Sep 9, 2010, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by BadKosh

Reading comprehension problems? I implied that viewership was down at the lefty spinning MSM because of their lies and spin. They chased away their viewers. People don't hang around liars for the same reason.

And you support this theory how? Does not compute.

BadKosh · Sep 9, 2010, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

Does not compute. Moderate Muslims have been quiet, so therefore they are not moderate? Huh?

So *Only* radical muslims would denounce the violence of the rest?

besson3c · Sep 9, 2010, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by BadKosh

So *Only* radical muslims would denounce the violence of the rest?

So silence = agreement? Does not compute.

You also haven't answered where you'd expect to hear these moderate muslims speak out.

Doofy · Sep 9, 2010, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

You also haven't answered where you'd expect to hear these moderate muslims speak out.

Same place that you'd hear moderate Christians speak out? By, say, them making a thread about it in their favourite forum and distancing themselves from the nutjobs?

OAW · Sep 9, 2010, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by BadKosh

Again with being unable to understand what you read. I have not EVER said all Muslims are extremists. I said The moderates (if any exist) have been quiet, suggesting they are not that moderate. My office mate is Muslim and we discuss lots of issues that are of concern to us both. We both agree the "AH" in Fla shouldn't burn the Korans for the risks to our citizens(which there shouldn't be if the Muslims were more housebroken and mature) and we both agree that the Mosque at ground zero is a tasteless and inflamatory act, which calls into question the motives of those involved.

No what you said was this ....

Originally Posted by BadKosh

Actually, the lefties are trying to make it such, but it isn't...yet. PC is a way to control the subject matter during discussions. It keeps the real issues from being discussed. We have an honest distrust of Muslims because of their actions. Muslims are being disproportionally discussed over other religions. I'm tired of Muslim this and Muslim that and their intrusion into western society as they try to change our laws and such, instead of integrating into our society. I'm sick of one-way tolerance. I'm sick of being intimidated by them and their violence and radical nature. Reminds me of the 1960's and the threats of riots unless......

No qualifications or caveats there. You go on to say this when someone called you out for painting ALL muslims with the RADICAL muslim brush ...

Originally Posted by BadKosh

Except the moderates are at best a rumor. Where are they? What do they have to say about it? How do you assume to know what percentage of Muslims are radical and which are 'moderate'??

Again ... no qualifications or caveats there.

I then chimed in against my better judgement because I found your inane and ignorant comments to be too over the top to go unchallenged anymore. And I say "against my better judgement" because the regulars around here can unquestionably see that you are a sh*t talker ... and not a very good one at that. And I should know better than to try to reason with someone of your ilk. Tried to point out to you that simple common sense and mathematics ought to prevent you from trying to paint the billions of Muslims in the world with the brush of the thousands of radicals in physical conflict with the US. And all you could say in reply was "Assumptions." Which only demonstrated my point that your debate skills are a joke. I then challenged you to produce your evidence to the contrary and your response?

:::::: crickets :::::::

And then you have the nerve to say this to Turtle?

Originally Posted by BadKosh

You actually think logically? Proofs?

Woooooowwwwwwww!!!!!!!!!

Which leads me to this .....

Originally Posted by sek929

Also, does anyone else find it telling that one of our resident Conservatives (Turtle) thinks BadKosh has gone to far with his rhetoric? Not a jab at you Turtle, but when he can't even garner support from your end of the spectrum then something is very wrong with his reasoning.

It is quite telling indeed.

OAW

OAW · Sep 9, 2010, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by sek929

Care to make the connection between writing code and the logic of political debates?

Bingo!

OAW

OAW · Sep 9, 2010, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by BadKosh

Reading comprehension problems? I implied that viewership was down at the lefty spinning MSM because of their lies and spin. They chased away their viewers. People don't hang around liars for the same reason.

Oh jeez ... the so-called "lefty spinning MSM" still dwarfs the viewership of Fox News. Fox might have the highest ratings among cable news ... but that is a fraction of the ratings in comparison to traditional broadcast news. Frikking "Shark Week" on the Discovery Channel probably had higher ratings than all the news channels combined! Fox News has the highest ratings on cable news because the conservative crowd has all congregated over there over the years. So is it any wonder that the ratings have gone down at CNN or MSNBC since Fox News came on the scene and provided that audience an alternative that was more attractive to them?

OAW

Jawbone54 · Sep 9, 2010, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Same place that you'd hear moderate Christians speak out? By, say, them making a thread about it in their favourite forum and distancing themselves from the nutjobs?

I don't think I'd call myself a "moderate Christian" though. I'm definitely old-school in a lot of my beliefs; I just think a lot of modern Christianity gets stuff wrong, especially concerning their response to detractors.

Person Man · Sep 9, 2010, 04:42 PM

BadKosh. Ignore list. Bam.

imitchellg5 · Sep 9, 2010, 05:12 PM

The plan is off. America is reveling in new found reason.

OAW · Sep 9, 2010, 05:14 PM

Well it appears that the so-called "pastor" has bowed to public pressure (and/or decided that he's garnered enough publicity from all this) and cancelled the burning of the Qu'rans scheduled for Sept. 11.

He claims it's because the group behind the so-called "Ground Zero mosque" (that's neither a mosque nor at Ground Zero) has agreed to move the center to another location. We'll see if that's turns out to be true or if he's just pulling something out of his a*s to save face.

OAW

The Final Dakar · Sep 9, 2010, 05:14 PM

Being a cynic, I don't wonder if this event was created solely for the purpose of giving right-wingers media types something to illogically compare to the Mosque.

Doofy · Sep 9, 2010, 05:14 PM

(From Mitch's link)

Terry Jones said he was calling off the Florida event after the group behind a planned mosque close to Ground Zero in New York agreed to relocate it.

Win?

turtle777 · Sep 9, 2010, 05:19 PM

I don't believe it. Why would they give up the Ground 0 mosque over some lunatic's threats ?

-t

OAW · Sep 9, 2010, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

I don't believe it. Why would they give up the Ground 0 mosque over some lunatic's threats ?

-t

Exactly.

The pastor planning to burn Qurans on the Sept. 11 anniversary said Thursday that he had called off the event after being given assurances that the Muslim group seeking to build an Islamic center near the World Trade Center site would move the project.

"We would consider that a sign from God," the Rev. Terry Jones told reporters.

But sources close to the imam behind the New York mosque denied any deal had been struck. Jones insisted, however, that "I have his word that he will move the mosque to a different location."

Jones also said he would travel to New York on Saturday to meet with officials of the mosque project.

This guy is just trying to save face. Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf is just on Larry King Live in the last day or so saying that "the radicals win if the project is moved" ... and then does a complete about face over this nutjob? Sorry ... not buying that until the Imam himself says that's the case.

Pastor cancels burning, says mosque moving - Politics - White House - msnbc.com

The Final Dakar · Sep 9, 2010, 05:34 PM

Well, this just got taken to a whole new level of crazy, and entertaining

sek929 · Sep 9, 2010, 05:37 PM

I like this whole role reversal thing that's going on.

A Muslim, commenting that he isn't going to give in to radicals? What a bizzare age we live in.

imitchellg5 · Sep 9, 2010, 05:53 PM

I don't know, but if I were a pastor in Florida and the POTUS and the highest ranking military official warned me against doing something, I MIGHT have listened in the first place. Probably.

OAW · Sep 9, 2010, 06:08 PM

Breaking news from AP:

Imam statement: Will not bargain over site of planned NYC mosque near ground zero.

"Pastor" Jones is a liar in addition to being a nutjob. Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf only agreed to talk to this fool. Like I said .... he's just trying to save face.

OAW

Doofy · Sep 9, 2010, 06:10 PM

What does it not occur to you that perhaps the "pastor" is speaking the truth and the "imam" is lying?

Bit of bias going on there perhaps, OAW?

OAW · Sep 9, 2010, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

What does it not occur to you that perhaps the "pastor" is speaking the truth and the "imam" is lying?

Bit of bias going on there perhaps, OAW?

Common sense does go a long way. See what I said about the interview on Larry King Live above. And then also consider this ....

The imam and developer behind a plan to build an Islamic center near ground zero are denying reports that there is a deal to move the facility.

A Florida pastor who had threatened to burn copies of the Quran in protest of the center announced Thursday that he had negotiated a deal to have its location changed.

Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf issued a statement through his publicist saying that was false, and there had been no negotiations of the sort.

Manhattan real estate developer Sharif El-Gamal also denied that any talks had taken place.

He said the center would go forward as planned.

AP - Fla. minister cancels burning of Qurans on 9/11

Furthermore .... I initially said that I didn't believe the good "pastor". It just didn't make any sense what he was saying. I did not say he was a liar until AFTER the news reports came out categorically rejecting his claim. So no that's not "bias" ... that's just stating the facts. However unwelcome they may be for you.

OAW

turtle777 · Sep 9, 2010, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

What does it not occur to you that perhaps the "pastor" is speaking the truth and the "imam" is lying?

Bit of bias going on there perhaps, OAW?

You gotta admit: it would be rather unlikely that the imam gave in due to this wacko pastor from FL.

On the other hand, this would open new opportunities: you storm a bank in a Muslim country, with a Quran and a lighter: "Give me all your money, or this book burns."

-t

Doofy · Sep 9, 2010, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

You gotta admit: it would be rather unlikely that the imam gave in due to this wacko pastor from FL.

I admit that it'd be highly unlikely that an imam would give in to a whacko from FL.

However, that doesn't mean that the imam didn't promise whacko from FL that he'd relocate. I mean, politics 101 here.

Since none of us knows the contents of any telephone call between "imam" and "pastor" (should said call have actually occurred), none of us are in a position to comment without bias.

OAW · Sep 9, 2010, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

You gotta admit: it would be rather unlikely that the imam gave in due to this wacko pastor from FL.

-t

You think?

In any event, it appears that the tap dancing has commenced ....

The imam proposing to build an Islamic center near the World Trade Center denied a Florida pastor's claim that a deal had been struck to move the project.

"I am glad that Pastor Jones has decided not to burn any Qurans," Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf issued a statement. "However, I have not spoken to Pastor Jones or Imam Musri (of Florida). I am surprised by their announcement.* We are not going to toy with our religion or any other. Nor are we going to barter. We are here to extend our hands to build peace and harmony."

The Rev. Terry Jones had said a deal was made, and as a result called off his plan to burn Qurans on the anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks this Saturday.

Jones also said he would travel to New York on Saturday to meet with officials of the mosque project.

At a press conference, Jones said he had met with Imam Muhammad Musri of the Islamic Society of Central Florida and that Musri had told him that officials would guarantee that the mosque would be moved.

"I asked him three times, and I have witnesses," Jones said. "If it's not moved, then I think Islam is a very poor example of religion. I think that would be very pitiful. I do not expect that."

But after the press conference Musri said what he offered was a meeting among Jones, the New York imam and himself to talk about moving the mosque.

Imam denies pastor's claim on mosque move - U.S. news - Security - msnbc.com

Seems like "Pastor" Jones is going to try to toss the Florida Imam under the bus now.

Now that the Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf has unequivocally stated that there will be no "quid pro quo" over their development of the cultural center and this nutjob's "protest" ... we'll see if he says that the Qur'an burnings will proceed as planned. Something tells me he won't. My guess is that he will back down and fade into a well-deserved obscurity by the end of next week.

OAW

* @ Doofy .... please note the outright denial of any contact whatsoever with this "pastor" by the "imam" in NY. Just accept the fact that this guy is simply trying to save face.

Doofy · Sep 9, 2010, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by OAW

* @ Doofy .... please note the outright denial of any contact whatsoever with this "pastor" by the "imam" in NY. Just accept the fact that this guy is simply trying to save face.

@ OAW .... Learn about how politics works.

Doofy · 06:57 PM

BBC News - US pastor Terry Jones cancels Koran burning

Mr Jones' plan had been internationally condemned and had already sparked many protests around the world.

US Defence Secretary Robert Gates had telephoned him to urge him to reconsider his plans. The pastor had also been visited several times by the FBI.

Hmmm. FBI getting involved in a constitutionally legal activity.
You muppets still think you live in a free country?

imitchellg5 · Sep 9, 2010, 07:17 PM

America's never been "free."

Warren Pease · Sep 9, 2010, 07:21 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

I don't believe it. Why would they give up the Ground 0 mosque over some lunatic's threats ?

-t

IMO, they should just build a community center there instead.

ebuddy · Sep 9, 2010, 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

BBC News - US pastor Terry Jones cancels Koran burning

Hmmm. FBI getting involved in a constitutionally legal activity.
You muppets still think you live in a free country?

Apparently the city told the pastor he needed a permit for the burning, declined his permit, then urged him not to break the law or face the consequences.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not shedding a tear over the giant "hey look at me" that's going on with this friggin' buffoon, but I'd sure love to get my hands on the decline of that permit for whatever legitimate reasons might be forthcoming.

Doofy · Sep 9, 2010, 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by ebuddy

Apparently the city told the pastor he needed a permit for the burning, declined his permit, then urged him not to break the law or face the consequences.

You need a permit to have a bonfire?

OldManMac · Sep 9, 2010, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

You need a permit to have a bonfire?

Yes, you do in certain situations. My daughter has a fire pit in her backyard. During a severe dry spell last year, she was visited by the local fire chief, who explained that she needs a permit to burn within township limits, and that makes sense. If she starts a fire and it goes out of control, the results could be devastating.

smacintush · Sep 9, 2010, 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

You need a permit to have a bonfire?

It's America. We need a permit or a license for everything.

smacintush · Sep 9, 2010, 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by OldManMac

Yes, you do in certain situations. My daughter has a fire pit in her backyard. During a severe dry spell last year, she was visited by the local fire chief, who explained that she needs a permit to burn within township limits, and that makes sense. If she starts a fire and it goes out of control, the results could be devastating.

Necessity…safety…public interest…etc.

These excuses are always used to limit peoples' freedoms.

besson3c · Sep 9, 2010, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by smacintush

Necessity…safety…public interest…etc.

These excuses are always used to limit peoples' freedoms.

As true as that is, I have no doubt that there would be people doing extremely stupid things and making problems for me (such as fires) if there was complete freedom.

OldManMac · Sep 9, 2010, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by smacintush

Necessity…safety…public interest…etc.

These excuses are always used to limit peoples' freedoms.

Your freedoms don't include the unlimited ability to burn other peoples' houses down. There was no fee for the permit, either.

imitchellg5 · Sep 9, 2010, 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by OldManMac

Yes, you do in certain situations. My daughter has a fire pit in her backyard. During a severe dry spell last year, she was visited by the local fire chief, who explained that she needs a permit to burn within township limits, and that makes sense. If she starts a fire and it goes out of control, the results could be devastating.

Yes. Permits for bonfires are a good thing, or else all of the middle of America would be burned down by now.

Wiskedjak · Sep 9, 2010, 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by BadKosh

I said The moderates (if any exist) have been quiet, suggesting they are not that moderate.

You do realize that being quiet is what makes the Moderates moderate ... regardless of culture? It's the extremists that are loud. Just look at your own culture. The loudest people are the extremists. The quietest are the undecideds ... America's version of "moderates".

smacintush · Sep 9, 2010, 09:57 PM

Originally Posted by OldManMac

Your freedoms don't include the unlimited ability to burn other peoples' houses down. There was no fee for the permit, either.

Imagined threats are not a good reason to limit people's freedom. The fee is irrelevant, though I am surprised. It's a rare thing that the government doesn't charge money of its serfs for such things.

Doofy · Sep 9, 2010, 09:58 PM

And @ all the above posts.

Originally Posted by smacintush

It's America. We need a permit or a license for everything.

Bizarre. I want a fire, I just start one.
And to my knowledge, I haven't burnt down a neighbours' house yet.