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olePigeon · Dec 28, 2009, 05:19 PM

Extinct ibex is resurrected by cloning - Telegraph

Amazing. Unfortunately the kid died from defects in its lungs, apparently a problem that is not too uncommon in clones. However, it does bring hope for possibly reintroducing the species to its native habitat.

I wonder if the Thylacine will be cloned.

I can understand not cloning dinosaurs or species that went extinct naturally, but I'm all for cloning animals that went extinct as a result of human actions. OK, maybe cloning one dinosaur... cuz that would be one of the coolest things ever.

nonhuman · Dec 28, 2009, 05:21 PM

What makes human actions not 'natural'? We're competing for habitats and resources just like every other species on the planet.

nonhuman · Dec 28, 2009, 05:21 PM

Also, ethical issues be damned, I WANT A DINOSAUR!

downinflames68 · Dec 28, 2009, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by nonhuman

Also, ethical issues be damned, I WANT A DINOSAUR!

Me too. Having a pet dinosaur, or even seeing some, would be simply amazing. Even crazier, is that it is within the realm of possibility, in our lifetime. It's a fairly exciting time to be alive.

TETENAL · Dec 28, 2009, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by nonhuman

What makes human actions not 'natural'?

The definition of the word natural?

The Final Dakar · Dec 28, 2009, 05:44 PM

Technology.

SpaceMonkey · Dec 28, 2009, 05:47 PM

nonhuman · Dec 28, 2009, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

The definition of the word natural?

Which, clearly, is what I'm disputing here...

nonhuman · Dec 28, 2009, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar

Technology.

Other animals use (rudimentary) technologies. Does that mean the things they do are unnatural too?

pooka · Dec 28, 2009, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by nonhuman

What makes human actions not 'natural'?

Well for one thing, I'm pretty sure that one hole is for poopoo to come out of and not to put things into.

The Final Dakar · Dec 28, 2009, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by nonhuman

Other animals use (rudimentary) technologies. Does that mean the things they do are unnatural too?

If you don't wish to accept the answer, be my guest. However I'm not going to be drawn into a semantic argument when the difference between us and animals is pretty ****ing clear.

Spheric Harlot · Dec 28, 2009, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar

If you don't wish to accept the answer, be my guest. However I'm not going to be drawn into a semantic argument when the difference between us and animals is pretty ****ing clear.

Actually, you're being completely arbitrary, whether you realize it or not.

There are plenty of examples where animals use tools - actual, manufactured tools fashioned with great care - to their competitive advantage, and there are plenty of examples where animals did "unnatural" things like hunt others animals to the brink of extinction.
Just look at recent studies on the behavior of chimpanzees in the wild for some pretty scary re-delineation of "natural" behavior.

Claiming that human behavior is "unnatural" because we are destructive and arbitrarily cruel to our environment, and we use tools, is simply bullshit.

It is merely a matter of degree - and once it's a matter of degree, where you draw the line of distinction is no longer a matter of semantics.

There is no line to be drawn.

The ONLY difference is that we are aware and capable enough to consciously try and slow or stop or even reverse the effects of our actions, but it's becoming painfully obvious that simple awareness is not enough to separate us from the animals.

Anyway, carrion.

Uncle Skeleton · Dec 28, 2009, 07:15 PM

The animals' actions are only "unnatural" when they're the ones talking about it. "Natural" is in the eye of the beholder.

olePigeon · Dec 28, 2009, 07:35 PM

Regardless of your definition of natural, humans are in the unique position to be able to recognize the repercussions of our actions; that makes us responsible for them. The evolution of our intelligence and cognitive ability forces us to assume the role of caretaker.

Aeolius · Dec 28, 2009, 07:44 PM

Two words: Mammoth Steaks

torsoboy · Dec 28, 2009, 07:50 PM

And what is it about a huge asteroid hitting the earth that is "natural"? It's not like they had much of a fighting chance with that.

But, back on topic, this is pretty amazing.

Spheric Harlot · Dec 28, 2009, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by olePigeon

Regardless of your definition of natural, humans are in the unique position to be able to recognize the repercussions of our actions; that makes us responsible for them. The evolution of our intelligence and cognitive ability forces us to assume the role of caretaker.

I addressed that point: it doesn't seem to be happening.

olePigeon · Dec 28, 2009, 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot

I addressed that point: it doesn't seem to be happening.

Being capable and caring enough to do something about it are two completely different issues. I could lose 50 pounds if I wasn't lazy.

moonmonkey · Dec 29, 2009, 04:53 AM

Wouldn't it be simpler to go back in time and "collect" a male and female of the species and then breed them.

Spheric Harlot · Dec 29, 2009, 04:56 AM

Originally Posted by olePigeon

Being capable and caring enough to do something about it are two completely different issues. I could lose 50 pounds if I wasn't lazy.

If the end result is the same, the planet fails to see the difference.

hyteckit · Dec 29, 2009, 10:04 AM

You know what's unnatural?

Having sex while using a condom.

Anyway. Great news.

I can finally have sex using a condom made from ibex skin rather than lamb skin. Lamb skin always gives me a baaaahd rash.

Spheric Harlot · Dec 29, 2009, 10:06 AM

baaahd pun

The Final Dakar · Dec 29, 2009, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot

Actually, you're being completely arbitrary, whether you realize it or not.

Yeah, apparently not. But if you guys are telling me that our ability and scale with which we can change the environment around us is arbitrary, I'll accept that.

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot

Anyway, carrion.

I realize this is probably a gaffe, but it's kinda of amusing as an insult.

olePigeon · Dec 29, 2009, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot

If the end result is the same, the planet fails to see the difference.

I'm confused about what end result you think is inevitable.

Spheric Harlot · Dec 29, 2009, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by olePigeon

I'm confused about what end result you think is inevitable.

The end result being that nothing is done.

I'm not starting a political discussion. I'm saying that if the difference between an animal and a human is that the human is aware of the crap he's doing, but he fails to change his behavior anyway, then there is no difference.

Spheric Harlot · Dec 29, 2009, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar

I realize this is probably a gaffe, but it's kinda of amusing as an insult.

Do not underestimate the Power of Pun.

(I'm curious at what level this one could have been considered a "gaffe" - I find it difficult to imagine how it could NOT have been deliberate…)

olePigeon · Dec 29, 2009, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot

(I'm curious at what level this one could have been considered a "gaffe" ...)

When it acquired brown patches and a long neck.

The Final Dakar · Dec 29, 2009, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot

Do not underestimate the Power of Pun.

(I'm curious at what level this one could have been considered a "gaffe" - I find it difficult to imagine how it could NOT have been deliberate…)

Brain fart.

Spheric Harlot · Dec 29, 2009, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by olePigeon

When it acquired brown patches and a long neck.

shabbasuraj · Jan 1, 2010, 04:44 AM

Science = dumb.

andreas_g4 · Jan 1, 2010, 05:27 AM

It's got the clone-stare. Happens to 92,73%. It will go away when it grows older.