[jmzorko]

Hello, all ...

I bought a refurb'd dual 2ghz PowerMac G5 from the Apple store, but they accidentally sent me the dual 1.8ghz model instead. They're going to take it back and send me the model I ordered, but I have to communicate that I __really__ hope the dual 2ghz is quieter than this machine. The fans are always full on, even when nothing is really happening (i.e. just boot it after installing Tiger, no additional apps installed or running, and leave it). This thing is _easily_ 3x louder than the dual 1.25ghz MDD G4 that it's going to replace. I use Macs for audio, and this is just _way_ too loud -- it makes as much noise as some 1u rack servers we have at work. Putting it in the next room won't help, putting it in the next _apartment_ might :-(

Like I said, it's going back to Apple anyway and they're going to send me the dual 2ghz I ordered, but i'm really wondering if it's going to be any quieter? OK, a __lot__ quieter?

The following is the output of the top command, specifically "top -s 5 -ocpu" -- as you can see, the machine is basically 98% idle, yet the fans are going full blast even now:

Processes: 44 total, 2 running, 42 sleeping... 133 threads 19:13:16
Load Avg: 0.11, 0.03, 0.01 CPU usage: 0.9% user, 1.2% sys, 97.9% idle
SharedLibs: num = 134, resident = 23.7M code, 3.06M data, 5.63M LinkEdit
MemRegions: num = 3566, resident = 41.7M + 5.79M private, 37.5M shared
PhysMem: 50.8M wired, 60.7M active, 72.2M inactive, 183M used, 328M free
VM: 4.39G + 86.1M 10102(0) pageins, 0(0) pageouts

PID COMMAND %CPU TIME #TH #PRTS #MREGS RPRVT RSHRD RSIZE VSIZE
221 top 1.7% 0:00.31 1 19 22 604K 372K 1.04M 26.9M
0 kernel_tas 0.4% 0:03.50 40 2 1431 13.5M 0K 40.4M 847M
28 configd 0.0% 0:00.63 3 131 61 540K 1.40M 3.72M 29.1M
168 Terminal 0.0% 0:00.82 4 90 118 1.66M 6.69M 15.0M 334M
37 mDNSRespon 0.0% 0:00.07 3 32 26 292K 916K 2.51M 27.9M
56 WindowServ 0.0% 0:03.31 3 161 214 3.20M+ 15.2M 16.7M+ 332M+
216 sshd 0.0% 0:00.01 1 11 41 96K 1.45M 1.03M 29.9M
220 bash 0.0% 0:00.01 1 14 16 172K 816K 832K 27.1M
210 sshd 0.0% 0:00.32 1 34 42 128K 1.45M 3.43M 30.0M
179 NetCfgTool 0.0% 0:00.02 1 22 24 248K 684K 3.08M 27.2M
178 writeconfi 0.0% 0:00.07 1 23 24 376K 716K 1.86M 27.8M
175 System Pre 0.0% 0:01.07 3 121 187 8.67M 9.56M 16.0M 345M
171 bash 0.0% 0:00.02 1 14 17 184K 816K 1.32M 27.1M
170 login 0.0% 0:00.02 1 16 36 144K 388K 1.66M 26.9M
167 iTunesHelp 0.0% 0:00.04 1 47 41 576K 1.73M 1.65M 289M
165 mdimport 0.0% 0:00.25 4 62 46 828K 1.92M 2.30M 38.8M
158 Finder 0.0% 0:01.65 3 106 146 3.82M 14.9M 12.1M 348M
157 SystemUISe 0.0% 0:00.66 2 179 129 1.97M 5.75M 5.44M 333M
154 mds 0.0% 0:00.16 8 91 56 1.30M 1.74M 2.67M 42.2M
134 crashrepor 0.0% 0:00.00 1 17 18 104K 328K 208K 26.6M
133 Dock 0.0% 0:00.34 2 89 112 752K 7.39M 2.81M 303M
114 lookupd 0.0% 0:00.12 2 34 38 412K 928K 1.18M 28.5M
109 pbs 0.0% 0:00.40 2 40 40 696K 1.92M 1.87M 53.8M
107 automount 0.0% 0:00.02 3 41 29 304K 836K 1.05M 28.7M
102 automount 0.0% 0:00.03 3 43 33 304K 860K 1.10M 29.0M
99 rpc.lockd 0.0% 0:00.00 1 10 17 68K 376K 196K 26.7M
90 nfsiod 0.0% 0:00.00 5 30 25 112K 320K 188K 28.6M
61 loginwindo 0.0% 0:00.41 3 125 99 1.30M 3.14M 3.86M 306M
60 ATSServer 0.0% 0:00.18 2 63 69 672K 2.96M 2.19M 48.1M

Regards,

John

[Al G]

Originally Posted by jmzorko

Like I said, it's going back to Apple anyway and they're going to send me the dual 2ghz I ordered, but i'm really wondering if it's going to be any quieter? OK, a __lot__ quieter?

Yes, indeed it will be quieter. Unless of course you happen to get two in a row that are broken--which the 1.8 obviously is.

[CanadaRAM]

You didn't by any chance look inside the machine and forget to put the clear plastic airflow guide back into it, did you? If you don't get it all put back together legit., then the fans crank up to full speed as a protective measure against overheating.

Or, of course, the thermostats may be borked. That'd do it too.

[AC Rempt]

Yeah, must be a malfunction cuz my dual 1.8 is dead quiet. Always has been.

[OogaBooga]

Your plastic shield is probably missing.

[jmzorko]

Originally Posted by OogaBooga

Your plastic shield is probably missing.

... no, the plastic shield is indeed intact. Not only that, but when I open it, the funky red light comes on, which tells me that the machine _knows_ the plastic shield is installed correctly.

Also, the thing locks up solid after perhaps an hour (with the fans running full blast the whole time), and this is after applying all software updates it found (10.4.2, etc.) Yes, me thinks it's broken ... good thing this isn't the one I ordered :-)

Another question for anyone using these things for audio -- when do the fans kick in normally? In other words, if I have even a few stereo audio tracks with a few plugins per track (not a lot, something my 12" 1.5ghz PowerBook can easily handle without breaking a sweat), will the thing all of a sudden get too loud to use for the audio i'm trying to record? My main applications are Digital Performer, Ableton Live 5, Reason, Absynth 3 ... so i'd love to hear experiences of others using these to do pro audio production (with vocals) ...

Regards,

John

[booboo]

Sounds to me like poor contact between the CPU's and the heatsinks - and the fans are doing their best to keep them cool - and ultimately failing.

The MDD is easily 3x louder than the G5.

We have a G5 upstairs and the fans have never kicked in noticeably (and perhaps surprisingly) even when Cubase SX is maxing out the CPU's.

[OogaBooga]

Originally Posted by jmzorko

... no, the plastic shield is indeed intact. Not only that, but when I open it, the funky red light comes on, which tells me that the machine _knows_ the plastic shield is installed correctly.

Also, the thing locks up solid after perhaps an hour (with the fans running full blast the whole time), and this is after applying all software updates it found (10.4.2, etc.) Yes, me thinks it's broken ... good thing this isn't the one I ordered :-)

Another question for anyone using these things for audio -- when do the fans kick in normally? In other words, if I have even a few stereo audio tracks with a few plugins per track (not a lot, something my 12" 1.5ghz PowerBook can easily handle without breaking a sweat), will the thing all of a sudden get too loud to use for the audio i'm trying to record? My main applications are Digital Performer, Ableton Live 5, Reason, Absynth 3 ... so i'd love to hear experiences of others using these to do pro audio production (with vocals) ...

Regards,

John

You'll not be disappointed with the G5 for audio work. I'm no pro in digital audio, but I do it as a hobby and I still haven't been able to bog down my DP 2.0 in LE. Even with the Live 5 demo, I just kept dragging effects onto various tracks, and I still couldn't get my processor usage above 60%. And this is with one processor disabled and the other set at "Reduced".


But as for the noise, I thought my all my fans were broken in my G5 when I first turned it on because it was silent compared to my Athlon64 PC. The only noise complaint I have with the G5 is the chirping that seems to be prevalent on pretty much all DP G5 models. There is an easy work-around for this, but personally I'd expect more from Apple. If you install the CHUD tools and disable NAP, that should stop it. However, this usually leads to increased processor heat and higher fan RPMs, so be warned.

Another trick I've found that kills the chirping is to simply disable one CPU via CHUD. Hey, if you're doing audio work, and you're not using the power for plugins and effects, why not disable a CPU and set the Energy Saver to Reduced? It certainly helps to keep the fan noise at a minimum and also eliminates the chirping (in my experience) without having to resort to disabling NAP.


But all in all, the G5 is a very quiet machine, and perfect for audio work.

[crooner]

Originally Posted by booboo

Sounds to me like poor contact between the CPU's and the heatsinks - and the fans are doing their best to keep them cool - and ultimately failing.

The MDD is easily 3x louder than the G5.

We have a G5 upstairs and the fans have never kicked in noticeably (and perhaps surprisingly) even when Cubase SX is maxing out the CPU's.

Hmm... I just got my 2.7Ghz G5 and I gotta say that the fans are always going on this monster. Moreover, when doing intensive tasks, I can *really* hear them go into overdrive. MUCH louder than I expected.

How might I tell if there is poor contact between the CPU's and the heatsinks?

I'm getting a CPU temp read of about 132 to 158 degrees F. Is this high?

[elvis2000]

Originally Posted by jmzorko

Also, the thing locks up solid after perhaps an hour (with the fans running full blast the whole time), and this is after applying all software updates it found (10.4.2, etc.) Yes, me thinks it's broken ... good thing this isn't the one I ordered :-)

REFURB = Hope the next buyer doesn't send it back also. Or the one after that, or after that...

[Doc Juansinn]

Originally posted by Elvis2000:
REFURB = Hope the next buyer doesn't send it back also. Or the one after that, or after that...

Sadly this is more true of Apple refurbs these days.

The refurb G5 Apple sent me had a fair amount of dust on the inside and was missing a few items in the box. The G5 also didn't work properly! Four trips to the Apple Store, two logic boards, and one hard drive later, Apple took it back and sent me a faster brand new model with an upgraded video card. The replacement has been rock solid.

From the stories I've read here and heard about elsewhere, I no longer recommend Apple refurbs.

[Leonard]

There's definitely a problem with the DP1.8 you have, even my DP2.5 doesn't run with fans full blast. That should only happen if you:

- run the machine in target disk mode
- run the machine without the shield or the shield is missing the opaque covering on the back tab
- get a kernel panic
- I think it happens if you boot into open firmware too

[Big Mac]

This may have been brought up before, but it's important to ensure there is ample ventilation in the back of the G5. G5s are very quiet most all of the time.

[crooner]

Originally Posted by Big Mac

<snip>
G5s are very quiet most all of the time.

Yeah... as long as they're asleep.

Mine is noisy as all get out. Still, it's a fast motherer.

[jmzorko]

Hello, all ...

Well, the Apple replacement arrived today, dual 2ghz G5 (which is what I had originally ordered, they sent the wrong -- as well as broken -- model before). I must say, this is much better, and yes, it makes the dual 1.25ghz MDD G4 (which I didn't consider to be that loud i.e. it wasn't hard to deal with) seem really loud in comparison. This is super-super quiet.

Plus, Apple gave me 1G of RAM at no charge, and this model has the ADC connector on the gfx card, so I can continue to use my 17" Apple LCD. The only thing is, the gfx card was supposed to be an ATI R9600 ... and System Profiler says it's "ATY,RV350" with only 64M of VRAM. This isn't a big deal to me, since I do audio and not gfx stuff, but i'm wondering ...

Regards,

John

[crooner]

Originally Posted by jmzorko

Hello, all ...

Well, the Apple replacement arrived today, dual 2ghz G5 (which is what I had originally ordered, they sent the wrong -- as well as broken -- model before). I must say, this is much better, and yes, it makes the dual 1.25ghz MDD G4 (which I didn't consider to be that loud i.e. it wasn't hard to deal with) seem really loud in comparison. This is super-super quiet.

Plus, Apple gave me 1G of RAM at no charge, and this model has the ADC connector on the gfx card, so I can continue to use my 17" Apple LCD. The only thing is, the gfx card was supposed to be an ATI R9600 ... and System Profiler says it's "ATY,RV350" with only 64M of VRAM. This isn't a big deal to me, since I do audio and not gfx stuff, but i'm wondering ...

Regards,

John

Glad that worked out for you, John.

Thing is, I'm still a bit puzzled over whether the loudness of my dual 2.7's fans is normal or if there is something hinky goin' on.

Anyone got any thoughts on this?

[jmzorko]

Originally Posted by OogaBooga

The only noise complaint I have with the G5 is the chirping that seems to be prevalent on pretty much all DP G5 models. There is an easy work-around for this, but personally I'd expect more from Apple. If you install the CHUD tools and disable NAP, that should stop it. However, this usually leads to increased processor heat and higher fan RPMs, so be warned.

Another trick I've found that kills the chirping is to simply disable one CPU via CHUD. Hey, if you're doing audio work, and you're not using the power for plugins and effects, why not disable a CPU and set the Energy Saver to Reduced? It certainly helps to keep the fan noise at a minimum and also eliminates the chirping (in my experience) without having to resort to disabling NAP.


But all in all, the G5 is a very quiet machine, and perfect for audio work.

Ooga,

I've read about this problem -- it sounds kind of like the zipping sounds that sometimes made it into recordings on the old SCSI-based 8500s I used to use, right? I'm wondering, does this also effect firewire-based audio? My interface is a MOTU Traveler (which I also use with my PowerBook for live gigs or remote recording). Also, I have a PowerCore PCI board (original model) in the MDD dual G4 that i'll be putting into the G5 ... hopefully I won't notice any unexpected noises when I use that ...

Regards,

John

[Al G]

Originally Posted by jmzorko

Well, the Apple replacement arrived today, dual 2ghz G5...
Plus, Apple gave me 1G of RAM at no charge, and this model has the ADC connector on the gfx card, so I can continue to use my 17" Apple LCD. The only thing is, the gfx card was supposed to be an ATI R9600 ... and System Profiler says it's "ATY,RV350" with only 64M of VRAM. This isn't a big deal to me, since I do audio and not gfx stuff, but i'm wondering ...

That is the Radeon 9600 Pro 64MB from the rev. A or first version machines. Apple sent you a refurb, not new, right? If so, then the 64MB version is what I would expect. It's a better card than the GeForce FX5200 64MB from the rev. B machines. And it's just as fast as the currently shipping 9600, just with less VRAM--but 64MB is still plenty for all but the most demanding 3D apps.

===

Crooner, it's difficult to say. Noise is so subjective. Tell us a little more, like whether the fan noise is constant or cycles up and down. Can you characterize the noise (plain-old fan sound or is there any grinding or squealing)? What's the typical ambient temperature in the room? Have you run the Hardware Test from the install DVD? The Hardware Test will run the fans at full blast and give you a baseline to compare to normal operation.

[JMII]

Originally Posted by booboo

The MDD is easily 3x louder than the G5.

Same here... my dual 2GHz G5 at work is darn near slient, especially compared to my dual 1GHz G4 at home.

[Leonard]

jmzorko, great to hear you got a G5 DP2.0 in great working condition! Have fun and enjoy the quiet.

[jmzorko]

Hello, all ...

I'm not so sure if the dual 2ghz G5 Apple (finally) sent me is all right, for the following reasons:

1. when I open the plastic door inside, no red light comes on, and the fans don't speed up
2. though it is very quiet (and i'm glad), it does make a small bit of noise -- a sound not unlike a fan just slightly off -- it's not one of the CPU fans, it might be the one in the PCI compartment
3. Everything i've read says that I can use my TC|PowerCore PCI DSP card in the PCI-X slots of the G5, but the plastic bridge seems to be about 20 pins farther up the slot than it is on my dual G4. Hence, the PowerCore PCI card doesn't seem to fit (and I didn't want to force it).

... other than those things, it seems really cool. It hasn't locked up, I installed the developer tools on it (i'm a software engineer as well as a music composer / producer). I don't want to send it back to Apple and wait yet again ... but I do want these things fixed (if they're problems). Where is the sensor used to detect when the plastic door is closed? Perhaps it's just not aligned correctly or something?

Regards,

John

[jmzorko]

... PowerCore PCI card is installed -- I wasn't aligning it right :-)

Regards,

John