[Madison]

Hello everyone! Just a quick Merry Christmas to all my friends here at MacNN!

Tom

[subego]

[iMOTOR]

Merry Christmas to all from Sunny San Diego.

[E's Lil Theorem]

Thanks!

Ditto!

[imitchellg5]

Thank you! What's everybody's plans? For me, work. As usual

[lpkmckenna]

Merry Christmas! I'm posting this from work right now.

[subego]

Ditto.

I'm enjoying it at the moment though, so no complaints.

Chinese food and hanging out with my dad tomorrow, which is also no complaints.

[ebuddy]

Merry Christmas!

I shall be sipping egg-nog while wearing gorilla head slippers and watching my 16 and 19 year olds open their... gift cards, Wii games, and cash. It's not like it used to be when "Santa Claus" would set all the toys up late the night before. I miss having young'ns. (this time of year )

Nonetheless, I will not be working today and will have all those I hold most dear within hug's reach and that's the best Christmas I could ask for. My thoughts go out to those serving overseas or working on holidays or missing loved ones for any number of reasons and I pray for a sense of hope and peace for all. God Bless all y'all!

[ghporter]

And Joyeux Noel to all!

My wife, a nurse, is working today, while I have the day off. So far it's been some house cleaning and general hanging out. We had our "get together" with friends and family yesterday evening with my wife's schedule in mind.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

We had our "get together" with friends and family yesterday evening with my wife's schedule in mind.

You did the right thing.

Christmas Eve is what it's all about. Ask any European

-t

[bstone]

[Oisín]

^ Why thumbs down? Don’t like Christmas?

Originally Posted by turtle777 

You did the right thing.

Christmas Eve is what it's all about. Ask any European

-t

Exactly. Christmas was yesterday; today is just relax-and-try-to-digest-eighty-three-pounds-of-Christmas-dinner day.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

^ Why thumbs down? Don’t like Christmas?

The funny thing is that the staunch atheist had no problem saying "Merry Christmas" and no one here would crash a "Happy Hanukkah" thread with a thumbs down.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

no one here would crash a "Happy Hanukkah" thread with a thumbs down.

Very true.

-t

[ghporter]

I've been confronted by "serious" Christians who were quite miffed at the use of "Xmas" instead of spelling out the word Christmas. Interesting how little they know about early Christianity; the Greek "X" (chi) was used as a sort of "inside code word" for Christ by the early church. It's the first letter in the Greek spelling of Christ (Χριστός). It was used to evade the Romans' early tendency to snuff out Christianity by snuffing out early Christians. These "serious" Christians seem suitably impressed every time I explain this-but they never seem to pass it on to their fellows.

Then they hit me with "why doesn't anyone say "Merry Christmas" at the store anymore? Are they trying to do away with Christmas?" As thin skinned as these individuals are, you'd think that they could at least understand when I explain it to them that Christmas is hardly the only mid-winter holiday there is. If I get too much pushback with this explanation, I go into the historical perspective; the Gospels make it clear that Christ's birth was hardly in mid-winter, and more likely in the spring...but that when the Church started trying to overwhelm every part of the former Roman Empire, the Pope basically decided that adopting the Pagan Yule celebration as the time to celebrate Christmas was both a great bit of symbolism (mid-winter is a time when many cultures celebrate the hope of rebirth in the spring...) but a way to co-opt the existing cultural habits of those the Church was trying to convert. Yeah, I get irritated by such ignorant, insular behavior. And I have no problem irritating such individuals with a few facts. They get quiet for a while after that.

Merry Christmas, Happy (several days late) Hanukkah, Joyous Yule, and pleasant (insert any other mid-winter celebration here) to all.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

I've been confronted by "serious" Christians who were quite miffed at the use of "Xmas" instead of spelling out the word Christmas. Interesting how little they know about early Christianity; the Greek "X" (chi) was used as a sort of "inside code word" for Christ by the early church. It's the first letter in the Greek spelling of Christ (Χριστός). It was used to evade the Romans' early tendency to snuff out Christianity by snuffing out early Christians. These "serious" Christians seem suitably impressed every time I explain this-but they never seem to pass it on to their fellows.

Likely because a "code-word" for Christ is not necessary under circumstances not related to early Christianity or a governing faction not generally known to be hostile to it. Using 'X' is not understood as a harkening back to the days of Roman rule as much as it is a politically correct work-around for "Christ" or a lazy shortened form of the holiday. They're in effect saying; "We're here, we're cheer, get used to it."

Then they hit me with "why doesn't anyone say "Merry Christmas" at the store anymore? Are they trying to do away with Christmas?" As thin skinned as these individuals are, you'd think that they could at least understand when I explain it to them that Christmas is hardly the only mid-winter holiday there is. If I get too much pushback with this explanation, I go into the historical perspective; the Gospels make it clear that Christ's birth was hardly in mid-winter, and more likely in the spring...but that when the Church started trying to overwhelm every part of the former Roman Empire, the Pope basically decided that adopting the Pagan Yule celebration as the time to celebrate Christmas was both a great bit of symbolism (mid-winter is a time when many cultures celebrate the hope of rebirth in the spring...) but a way to co-opt the existing cultural habits of those the Church was trying to convert. Yeah, I get irritated by such ignorant, insular behavior. And I have no problem irritating such individuals with a few facts. They get quiet for a while after that.

Yes, but this is the time of year used by Christians to celebrate that birth as the actual date of the birth is not generally known. Not everyone is interested in the "Cliff Claven" breakdown of the history of the holiday celebrated as "Christmas" as A. Most practicing Christians are already well aware of the history behind the choice of this time of year and its pagan roots and B. There's nothing insular about not appreciating the practice of replacing Christ with 'X' when it's unnecessary to do so.

i.e. this is going out of your way to irritate Christians and is perhaps not as much a product of their ignorance as it is your antagonism.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

i.e. this is going out of your way to irritate Christians and is perhaps not as much a product of their ignorance as it is your antagonism.

You're wrong, this is not the motivation at all. Second, any Christian who is irritated by it is a sanctimonious twit looking for offence when none is intended.

[bstone]

Here is why I don't like X-mas.

Please stop reading now if you are or will be offended by this. I don't mean to offend, just share my opinion.





1) this is a pagan holiday, 2) it signifies the start of pain and death for millions of our (Jewish) people, 3) the same for millions of others, 4) the world is a substantially worse place because of the christians.

[Oisín]

This isn’t the PWL. Let’s not get a “Merry Christmas” thread moved there, all right?

This is a thread to wish each other happy holidays, whether your holiday of choice be Christmas, Yule, Chanukkah, Divali, Festivus, or anything else. It’s not a thread about the history of Christianity, nor about pagan, Christian, Jewish, or any other history of warfare or not warfare, or about what to call holidays.

It’s just a thread to wish each other a happy passing of whatever holidays we happen to be celebrating at the moment, religious or not.


So, glædelig jul from me!

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by bstone 

1) this is a pagan holiday,

Really? Which one?

Originally Posted by bstone 

2) it signifies the start of pain and death for millions of our (Jewish) people,

This just in: no Jews ever suffered before 33 C.E.

Originally Posted by bstone 

3) the same for millions of others,

Uh huh.

Originally Posted by bstone 

4) the world is a substantially worse place because of the christians.

Thank G-d it was Christianity that conquered the world. A world without the bacon double cheese burger is worse than the Holocaust.

[bstone]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Really? Which one?

Christmas' pagan origins

This just in: no Jews ever suffered before 33 C.E.

Of course you saw where I wrote "the start". Yes?

Thank G-d it was Christianity that conquered the world. A world without the bacon double cheese burger is worse than the Holocaust.

Pretty sure things would have been so different that Hitler would never have been born, let alone a Holocaust happening.

[lpkmckenna]

Bstone, if you want a clue as to why Christianity was a successful proselytizing movement while Judaism was a failure comparatively: Christianity didn't require its proselytes to completely abandon the culture of their birth.

[turtle777]

Plus, Christians don't require their 8 day old babies to be clipped.

-t

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by bstone 

Christmas' pagan origins

Pretty sure things would have been so different that Hitler would never have been born, let along a Holocaust happening.

Christianity caused the birth of Hitler?! I'm pretty sure babies are caused by sex, not religion.

And your link is hilarious, and unscholarly. Childish errors of fact. For instance:

1) Isis wasn't a "nature deity" and wasn't worshipped in Babylon.
2) Mummers is a relatively recent tradition from northern Europe, not ancient Rome.
3) Saturnalia was chosen by Christians to celebrate Christmas because it was already a holiday. Kind of like the way atheists like myself enjoy Christmas, because it is already a holiday.

I could carry on, but I hope you get the picture. Pick a website made by someone other than an 11 year old.

[bstone]

No, I said that the world would have been so different that Hitler wouldn't have been born. Hey, it wasn't me who brought up the Holocaust.

Mmm'k?

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

This isn’t the PWL. Let’s not get a “Merry Christmas” thread moved there, all right?

Only on MacNN!

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by bstone 

1) this is a pagan holiday, 2) it signifies the start of pain and death for millions of our (Jewish) people, 3) the same for millions of others, 4) the world is a substantially worse place because of the christians.

Stop whining and get back to counting our money.

[turtle777]

This thread should have exploded due to excessive violation of Godwin's Law.

-t

[bstone]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

This thread should have exploded due to excessive violation of Godwin's Law.

-t

No one was called or referred to as a Nazi. No law violation and certainly not in excessive amounts.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Interesting how little they know about early Christianity; the Greek "X" (chi) was used as a sort of "inside code word" for Christ by the early church. It's the first letter in the Greek spelling of Christ (Χριστός). It was used to evade the Romans' early tendency to snuff out Christianity by snuffing out early Christians.

I think this is incorrect. Χ was just an abbreviation, and had nothing to do with evading Roman oppression. There were many, many abbrevs for Jesus, like ICXC, IHS, Xp, INRI, ICTYS, etc.

[andi*pandi]

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all! We had a nice day yesterday with presents and food aplenty. Mmm. Scalloped potatoes. Cookies. My house smells good still.

Today our Happy Newchrismakuh celebration with our Jewish, athiest, and "other" friends has been postponed due to epic snowstormitude. The jews I know don't consider christmas the turning point in their suffering. At worst, it is just an annoyance that has made Hannukah too commercial. At best, they really enjoy our tree, cookies, and the jazzy holiday stylings of The Klezmonauts.

We were all going to make sufganiyot. Stupid snow.

[Oisín]

Sufgani---wha? Never heard of it.

*googles*

Oooh, now there’s a tradition I wouldn’t mind taking over! Yummy!

[brassplayersrock²]

Thank you santa for the 5 boxes of buckey balls; and one year paid netflix streaming.

Hope everyone else had a great christmas.

[Madison]

Are you kidding me? I simply wished everyone a Merry Christmas, that's all. Enough of the Christians vs. Jews vs. Atheists, etc. For pete's sake, just enjoy the day with your family, loved ones, alone, cat, dog, whoever you enjoy spending time with.

Sheesh.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

You're wrong, this is not the motivation at all. Second, any Christian who is irritated by it is a sanctimonious twit looking for offence when none is intended.

I appreciate that lpkmckenna, but I'm certain gh can speak for himself. If someone expresses a distaste for "Xmas" it is no more their ignorance of the time of Roman rule than it is the one using it. Like I said, just because someone isn't interested in the "Cliff Claven" Christmas factoids does not make them insular or ignorant.

I also thought it odd in a thread that had been going relatively politics-free.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Madison 

Are you kidding me? I simply wished everyone a Merry Christmas, that's all. Enough of the Christians vs. Jews vs. Atheists, etc. For pete's sake, just enjoy the day with your family, loved ones, alone, cat, dog, whoever you enjoy spending time with.

Sheesh.

Thanks for the thread anyway. Don't give up on MacNN. If there is ever peace on earth, we'll see it here first.

[imitchellg5]

I don't care what the historical meaning behind Romans and X is, if you get fed up over calling Christmas Xmas, you've blown it.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

i.e. this is going out of your way to irritate Christians and is perhaps not as much a product of their ignorance as it is your antagonism.

The term Christian should be reserved for those who follow Christ's teachings and believe in Him, right? The "holier than thou," sanctimonious, typically "Sunday Christian" individuals with whom I have the discussions I described above hardly seem to fit the basic definition. They go to some length to select something innocuous to have a hissy fit over, and inflict this upon all within the sound of their voices. I merely attempt to reduce their volume from time to time. I sincerely respect people of faith. Those who usurp the label "Christian" do not earn such respect from me. Further, I never go out of my way to find these situations-they find me.

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

I think this is incorrect. Χ was just an abbreviation, and had nothing to do with evading Roman oppression. There were many, many abbrevs for Jesus, like ICXC, IHS, Xp, INRI, ICTYS, etc.

My research indicates that in the very, very early history of the church it was very important to keep one's faith extremely close to the vest. The use of Chi was reported to be one of several ways one could let one's faith be known surreptitiously. Remember, only one of the Apostles died of natural causes. The remaining ten were persecuted in exile, by either the Romans, the Pharisees, or both. It was extremely dangerous to be a Christian during the 1st Century CE.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

The term Christian should be reserved for those who follow Christ's teachings and believe in Him, right?

Yes, but your post begged questions.

What criteria were you using for "serious" Christians? Did they call themselves serious? Do they even call themselves Christian? Otherwise, what you spoke to were holier than thou, sanctimonious, blowhards looking for something, anything innocuous to have a hissy-fit over. For all you know, they're just railing on political correctness in general and using "Happy Holidays/Xmas" as the example du jour.

They go to some length to select something innocuous to have a hissy fit over, and inflict this upon all within the sound of their voices. I merely attempt to reduce their volume from time to time. I sincerely respect people of faith. Those who usurp the label "Christian" do not earn such respect from me. Further, I never go out of my way to find these situations-they find me.

To be clear this whole thing is no battle of mine, but AFAIK no Christian serious or otherwise had made this complaint in this thread. It seemed odd to me that you in effect, went out of your way to find the instance in this case. Besides, providing one with the historical significance of 'X' doesn't really address their complaint anyway. This is why they're not forwarding your information to their friends.

I've not witnessed anything more contentious than "Merry Christmas... or I mean Happy Holidays" [wink-wink]. You're really in an environment where people are going about in a hissy-fit over this stuff?

[brassplayersrock²]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

Exactly. Christmas was yesterday; today is just relax-and-try-to-digest-eighty-three-pounds-of-Christmas-dinner day.

The 30,000-calorie Christmas feast.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

Yes, but your post begged questions.

What criteria were you using for "serious" Christians? Did they call themselves serious? Do they even call themselves Christian? Otherwise, what you spoke to were holier than thou, sanctimonious, blowhards looking for something, anything innocuous to have a hissy-fit over. For all you know, they're just railing on political correctness in general and using "Happy Holidays/Xmas" as the example du jour.


To be clear this whole thing is no battle of mine, but AFAIK no Christian serious or otherwise had made this complaint in this thread. It seemed odd to me that you in effect, went out of your way to find the instance in this case. Besides, providing one with the historical significance of 'X' doesn't really address their complaint anyway. This is why they're not forwarding your information to their friends.

I've not witnessed anything more contentious than "Merry Christmas... or I mean Happy Holidays" [wink-wink]. You're really in an environment where people are going about in a hissy-fit over this stuff?

I guess this is a particularly sore issue with me. While I'm not particularly religious, I have a number of friends and relatives who are. They take their faith-and commitment to certain ideals-quite seriously. On the other hand, every day I see people who call themselves Christians while wielding that title like a holy cudgel, all the while making it clear that anyone who looked or acted like Christ would not be welcome in their homes-or their churches. Long hair, a beard, sandals and hanging out with prostitutes, leppers and the poor? Unthinkable!

The obvious and extensive hypocrisy is something that sets these people apart. Yes, I do frequently encounter people going to extremes to complain about this stuff. I'm in Texas, which seems to be the center for hypocritical, pseudo-religious bloviation.

[andi*pandi]

Well, Texas, and Facebook.

[subego]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

I've been confronted by "serious" Christians who were quite miffed at the use of "Xmas" instead of spelling out the word Christmas. Interesting how little they know about early Christianity; the Greek "X" (chi) was used as a sort of "inside code word" for Christ by the early church. It's the first letter in the Greek spelling of Christ (Χριστός). It was used to evade the Romans' early tendency to snuff out Christianity by snuffing out early Christians. These "serious" Christians seem suitably impressed every time I explain this-but they never seem to pass it on to their fellows.

Ask if they can find the "x" in this picture. It's just like Where's Waldo.

[The Final Dakar]

So, in the history of NN how many other Merry Xmas threads have been shat upon?

Classy, bstone.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

So, in the history of NN how many other Merry Xmas threads have been shat upon?

I can't believe you said "Xmas!" I'm SO MAD.

[The Final Dakar]

My sig must infuriate you.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

Well, Texas, and Facebook.

Only some of Facebook... But definitely more than just a little of it. Fortunately I can avoid people on Facebook that I don't want to interact with. Not quite the same here in San Antonio with a combination of Catholic history and Baptist bluster.