[besson3c]

Whatever guys, having options is a good thing, especially in a time where we are very short of good ones. I'll save my criticism until a little later, if any, and will vote for her if I think she will do the best job regardless of how she looks and how friendly she is.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by torsoboy 

I felt the same way with Obama's... he was okay until he started talking about how he was going to make everything wonderful by getting us "out of the war that we never should have been involved in". If this is the best he's got as to why we should vote for him, he's got nothing because even crazy Cindy Sheehan could run using that as her playing card. Boring old democrats... come up with something new and then get back to me.

Yeah, speaking directly and forthrightly about the most important political issue of our time - what's up with that? If you disagree with him, and the majority of the American people and virtually every expert, and believe that this war was a good idea, that's one thing. But I really can't conceive how it could be wrong to directly express your opinion on it, something that John Kerry and Hillary Clinton have had considerably more trouble with.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Whatever guys, having options is a good thing, especially in a time where we are very short of good ones.

I agree. Like I said, I look forward to having so many relatively viable third-party candidates.

[olePigeon]

Good for Hillary. Even if she doesn't win, I hope it's a platform for change in this country. Hopefully a non-white, non-male will be a serious contender for the Presidency within the next 20 years. Republicans might have their hands full.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

Good for Hillary. Even if she doesn't win, I hope it's a platform for change in this country. Hopefully a non-white, non-male will be a serious contender for the Presidency within the next 20 years. Republicans might have their hands full.

Especially if Bush's surge fails and the party continues to crumble apart from polarization and lack of a machine-like party consensus which they worked so hard to build up over the years.


I actually hope that we move away from party talking points and everybody saying the exact same thing. A little debate is a good thing even among parties, providing the debaters have taken a few civics classes.

[King Bob On The Cob]

Originally Posted by selowitch 

Oh, I see. You're one of those folks who prefers a lackluster economy, ballooning deficits, and zero international credibility to fiscal responsibility, prosperity, and respect abroad. I hate to break it to you, but Dubya is not exactly a model of personal responsibility in his life, either.
I think we'd sooner have a black woman president than a black male president.

Yay for parroting partisan talking points and not taking in the reasonings behind why these things are how they are!

</sarcasm>

[torsoboy]

Originally Posted by BRussell 

Yeah, speaking directly and forthrightly about the most important political issue of our time - what's up with that? If you disagree with him, and the majority of the American people and virtually every expert, and believe that this war was a good idea, that's one thing. But I really can't conceive how it could be wrong to directly express your opinion on it, something that John Kerry and Hillary Clinton have had considerably more trouble with.

I have no problem with him stating his opinion, but it just seems like a cop-out speech that we have been hearing from every democrat for the last couple of years now. Like they just have one speech and they pass it between each other to save themselves from having to think about any other issues. More Americans are violently killed in America every year than they are in Iraq, so I don't really consider Iraq to be "the most important political issue of our time" to the American people. It may be the most media hyped issue of our time though. Glad to see you're following the media though.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by torsoboy 

I have no problem with him stating his opinion, but it just seems like a cop-out speech that we have been hearing from every democrat for the last couple of years now. Like they just have one speech and they pass it between each other to save themselves from having to think about any other issues. More Americans are violently killed in America every year than they are in Iraq, so I don't really consider Iraq to be "the most important political issue of our time" to the American people. It may be the most media hyped issue of our time though. Glad to see you're following the media though.

I believe that it, or global warming, is the most important issue of our time. In addition to the number of lives lost, consider the financial expense, the duration of the war, and what it has done to our foreign policy.

I don't really care about who gives better speeches, but I'd add that Republicans are at least just as guilty in recycling the same speeches, which is a shame, as it seems that political machines that speak and behave in line are what it takes to succeed, which I feel is perhaps why we are so damn partisan these days.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by torsoboy 

I have no problem with him stating his opinion, but it just seems like a cop-out speech that we have been hearing from every democrat for the last couple of years now. Like they just have one speech and they pass it between each other to save themselves from having to think about any other issues. More Americans are violently killed in America every year than they are in Iraq, so I don't really consider Iraq to be "the most important political issue of our time" to the American people. It may be the most media hyped issue of our time though. Glad to see you're following the media though.

How many of those other things were directly caused by the government? I mean, more people die from lung cancer than your average serial killer, but I don't think it's a misuse of resources to have the police chasing the murderer rather than fighting cancer — there's a greater chance they can have a positive effect there.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by torsoboy 

I have no problem with him stating his opinion, but it just seems like a cop-out speech that we have been hearing from every democrat for the last couple of years now. Like they just have one speech and they pass it between each other to save themselves from having to think about any other issues. More Americans are violently killed in America every year than they are in Iraq, so I don't really consider Iraq to be "the most important political issue of our time" to the American people. It may be the most media hyped issue of our time though. Glad to see you're following the media though.

I can understand your reaction, and I'd say that Democrats like Kerry, Edwards, and H Clinton deserve nothing but scorn for their position(s) on Iraq. But of all the Democratic candidates, Obama has actually had a principled and respectable opinion about the war. He spoke out against it before it happened. So I think he, unlike the others, has some credibility on this. Granted he was just a state senator at the time the war began, but I think we should give him some credit and distinguish him from the other Democrats on this issue.