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Confederate Flag Displays (Page 4)
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lpkmckenna
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Sep 22, 2009, 03:19 PM
 
I occasionally see a Confederate flag up here in Canada. I just assume the owner is an idiot.
     
SpaceMonkey
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Sep 22, 2009, 03:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
Uh, oh. Someone played the Latin card. The thread is now doomed.
Side note: my favorite piece of ridiculously bad writing in the latest Dan Brown novel, The Lost Symbol, as revealed by the review I read of it, is:

"Actually, Katherine, it's not gibberish." His eyes brightened again with the thrill of discovery. "It's . . . Latin."

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Chuckit
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Sep 22, 2009, 03:38 PM
 
That's awesome, though still not as good as "Jesus Christ, let's try the Kanji!" (Apparently the Japanese writing system is both a language and an obscure form of cryptography. Who knew?)
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Phileas
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Sep 22, 2009, 05:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
I occasionally see a Confederate flag up here in Canada. I just assume the owner is an idiot.
Which would be a safe assumption to make.
     
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Sep 23, 2009, 03:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by Phileas View Post
Which would be a safe assumption to make.
Now, now. Not everyone up there is.
     
CRASH HARDDRIVE
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Sep 23, 2009, 04:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
Doesn't The Dukes of Hazzard play right into the negative Southern stereotypes that Jawbone, for example, said Southerners' embrace of the flag is in reaction to?
I dunno- my guess is the show was just as popular in the South as it was in the rest of the country. Then again, it could be southerners despise fast cars, stupid car chases, and slutty girls in short-shorts.

These two examples seem to be along the same lines.
Really? So the Nazis in Blues Brothers were the good guys? The heroes of the film? One was rooting for them?

It's worth noting that there is a conspicuous absence of black characters (even minor ones) throughout ...
...the history of Hollywood.
     
CRASH HARDDRIVE
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Sep 23, 2009, 04:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy View Post
It will be centuries before the Confederate flag can be flown without its primary association being with slavery.
FACT: The confederate flag was shown as the symbol of the HEROES of a prime time television show that had tremendous nation wide ratings (not to mention a merchandising bonanza) from 1979 to 1985, with a stupid movie made in 2004. There was no association with slavery.

I bring it up, not to debate the merits of whether or not DoH was a good show (or movie) or not, but that FACTS trump your notions about how everyone views the flag in all cases. It was innocuous enough a symbol that the above could be what it is: A FACT.
     
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Sep 23, 2009, 07:35 AM
 
Daisy Duke was hot, not slutty-she didn't sleep around, just made the locals wish she did. The "boys" were rebels against a corrupt local government, and demonstrated that even though they'd been naughty (moonshining is illegal, which is why they went to jail originally and thus couldn't have guns), they could be against such corruption and for the common folk. The stupid car chases were because, well, lots of people liked seeing those stupid car chases. The "General Lee" was a symbol of the Duke Boys' independence and ingenuity.

And to reinforce such things as how the Confederate Battle Flag isn't inherently tied to slavery and prejudice, I'll point out that in 1979 a physician's office in Ocean Springs, Mississippi was closed because the doctor had segregated waiting rooms. Who closed him? The LOCAL government. Did he fly a flag at all? No. But just a few miles farther west, the Jefferson Davis Home and Presidential Library, "Beauvior", in Biloxi flies BOTH the US flag and the Flag of the Confederacy, along with the Battle Flag, and is a national tourist attraction and has been for decades, with people of all colors and backgrounds flocking to it for its history. Hmmmm... Would that mean that the Confederate Battle Flag is NOT inherently linked to slavery and prejudice, but that stupid people can be prejudiced even without any symbol? DING! That's right!

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SpaceMonkey
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Sep 23, 2009, 09:21 AM
 
Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE View Post
...the history of Hollywood.
In the early 1980s? I'm talking about background actors, not even bit parts. I stand by my claim that if black people had appeared with any frequency in DoH, the juxtaposition of the Confederate flag would have been far more uncomfortable for many viewers. It's always possible to reclaim something offensive and change the meaning in isolation.
( Last edited by SpaceMonkey; Sep 23, 2009 at 09:27 AM. )

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SpaceMonkey
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Sep 23, 2009, 09:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
But just a few miles farther west, the Jefferson Davis Home and Presidential Library, "Beauvior", in Biloxi flies BOTH the US flag and the Flag of the Confederacy, along with the Battle Flag, and is a national tourist attraction and has been for decades, with people of all colors and backgrounds flocking to it for its history. Hmmmm... Would that mean that the Confederate Battle Flag is NOT inherently linked to slavery and prejudice, but that stupid people can be prejudiced even without any symbol? DING! That's right!
Probably not the best example, since he was the President of the Confederacy and all. I think people flocking to his library for the history are probably well aware of his connection to racism. But they can still be interested in the history. I have no objections to flying the flag as a historical artifact or a symbol representing the CSA.

As I mentioned before, Davis featured slavery as the primary "right" which was felt to be under attack when he made his farewell speech on the floor of the Senate (hopefully this is mentioned in his library):

It has been a conviction of pressing necessity—it has been a belief that we are to be deprived in the Union of the rights which our fathers bequeathed to us—which has brought Mississippi to her present decision. She has heard proclaimed the theory that all men are created free and equal, and this made the basis of an attack upon her social institutions; and the sacred Declaration of Independence has been invoked to maintain the position of the equality of the races. That Declaration is to be construed by the circumstances and purposes for which it was made. The communities were declaring their independence; the people of those communities were asserting that no man was born—to use the language of Mr. Jefferson—booted and spurred, to ride over the rest of mankind; that men were created equal—meaning the men of the political community; that there was no divine right to rule; that no man inherited the right to govern; that there were no classes by which power and place descended to families; but that all stations were equally within the grasp of each member of the body politic. These were the great principles they announced; these were the purposes for which they made their declaration; these were the ends to which their enunciation was directed. They have no reference to the slave; else, how happened it that among the items of arraignment against George III was that he endeavored to do just what the North has been endeavoring of late to do, to stir up insurrection among our slaves? Had the Declaration announced that the negroes were free and equal, how was the prince to be arraigned for raising up insurrection among them? And how was this to be enumerated among the high crimes which caused the colonies to sever their connection with the mother-country? When our Constitution was formed, the same idea was rendered more palpable; for there we find provision made for that very class of persons as property; they were not put upon the equality of footing with white men—not even upon that of paupers and convicts; but, so far as representation was concerned, were discriminated against as a lower caste, only to be represented in the numerical proportion of three-fifths. So stands the compact which binds us together.
( Last edited by SpaceMonkey; Sep 23, 2009 at 09:45 AM. )

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Doofy
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Sep 23, 2009, 10:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
It's worth noting that there is a conspicuous absence of black characters (even minor ones) throughout The Dukes of Hazzard's series run
Good job they included a bunch of Australian aboriginals then, like the chap below.

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Doofy
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Sep 23, 2009, 10:57 AM
 
Or this chap:



Quick, Rosco, arrest the Australian for not having a visa!
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SpaceMonkey
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Sep 23, 2009, 11:05 AM
 
I never meant to imply that black characters never appeared. Just rare enough to the extent that it's conspicuous, particularly in the context of a show set in rural Georgia in the late '70s/early '80s.

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Doofy
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Sep 23, 2009, 11:10 AM
 
Here's another Australian, this time he's working for the county!



Wait. And here's another enjoying a road race with them Duke boys just before he helps 'em steal some slot machines.



Enough of that. Here's both reasons why you didn't see the other characters on DoH:



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Sep 23, 2009, 11:15 AM
 
     
OAW
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Sep 23, 2009, 12:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
All of that said, I know people who display the flag in some fashion that are neither racist, uneducated on the flag's history, nor troublemakers. They simply sport it as a beacon of Southern pride. It's about Southern values (namely family-based, down-to-earth, neighborly values), and not about a side-issue of the Civil War that has been warped throughout history as the primary cause for the War.

I would assert that if someone thinks the Confederate Flag is primarily an icon for racism, then they are the one that is ignorant concerning history.
Keep telling yourself that.

This is a prime example of the myth of universality. A phenomenon that seems to affect many white Americans in particular ... whereby they simply assume that their experience or outlook regarding a topic applies (or should apply) to everybody. The fact of the matter is that African-Americans have lived in the South for centuries. In fact, one can argue that the Southern roots of African-Americans as a whole extends further back than white Americans as a whole because the so much of the US white population resulted from large waves of immigration that occurred well after slavery ended in the US. In many Southern counties African-Americans outnumbered the white population 3 - 1. So if the Confederate Flag was simply a "beacon of Southern pride" and "Southern values" ... then why do we not see large segments of the African-American population in the South sporting it in some fashion? Sure you can dig up a picture or two of some confused black guy displaying a Confederate flag ... but the Southern African-American population as a whole overwhelmingly rejects this flag and takes serious issue with its depiction as a "symbol of Southern pride".

So let's be accurate here. For some, it is a symbol of "Southern white pride". Moreover, "Southern white pride" does NOT equal "Southern pride". And given the history and legacy of "Southern white pride" .... I daresay the meaning of the Confederate flag speaks for itself. To go through all these twists and contortions to try to justify this flag and argue that it means something other that what it clearly stands for in the context of the "Southern white" legacies of slavery, segregation, and Jim Crow makes about as much sense as a white guy trying to argue that he should be able to say the N-word because he hears some black people using it amongst themselves. I mean, he can go there if he wants to I suppose. He just shouldn't be surprised if he catches a beat down for his foolishness.

OAW
     
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Sep 23, 2009, 01:05 PM
 

"Well I heard old Neil put her down..."


Great song. Admit it. Probably the best known answer to a slam ever recorded too. Even Neil thought so.

And any of you that thought there was racism or pro-slavery in anything to do with the band, go look in a mirror. There's a straight up retard.
     
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Sep 23, 2009, 01:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Just good 'ole boys, never meaning no harm...
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dcmacdaddy
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Sep 23, 2009, 02:02 PM
 
Can anyone provide a list of traits/behaviors/attitudes that are indicative of Southern Pride?


Jawbone54 mentioned some descriptions of what he thought were indicators of behavior typical of Southern pride ("family-based, down-to-earth, neighborly values") but I fail to see how these traits are unique to the South? Is this statement supposed to imply that Northerners a) do not have these traits or b) are not as "family-based [and] down-to-earth" as Southerners?

And his description is still quite vague. What are the specific traits/behaviors/attitudes that define being "family-based, down-to-earth, [and having] neighborly values"? What does a Southerner actually *do* to earn the description of being "family-based, down-to-earth, [and having] neighborly values"?


But what about divorce rates? While divorce rates are down overall in this country in the past decade--at least according to the CDC's National Center for Health Statistics--divorce rates among Southern states (and especially those states that made up the Confederacy) are HIGHER percentage-wise than among Northern states (and especially those states that made up the Union). So, how can one argue that being "family-based" is an aspect of Southern Pride (something that makes southerners unique compared to Northerners) when behavioral evidence (e.g.: divorce rates) shows otherwise?

Here is an interesting graphics that shows divorce rates changing over time, with the data broken down by state and county.
Here is a PDF from the CDC's NCHS showing divorce rates for the years 1990, 1995, and 1999-2007.
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Sep 23, 2009, 02:12 PM
 
Well right about then them Duke boys showed up...

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Sep 23, 2009, 02:12 PM
 
Two of my values are integrity and reason. Does this mean that other people have to be insane and duplicitous? No. It just means that I value these things highly.
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Sep 23, 2009, 02:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
Two of my values are integrity and reason. Does this mean that other people have to be insane and duplicitous? No. It just means that I value these things highly.
What's your point? How does this relate to the discussion at hand?
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lpkmckenna
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Sep 23, 2009, 02:23 PM
 
DoH was a cool show (when I was 11). Would be nice to see a new show that exposes moronic cops, but without the modern robin hood nonsense. "To Catch a *********" is kinda catchy...
     
Chuckit
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Sep 23, 2009, 03:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy View Post
What's your point? How does this relate to the discussion at hand?
It was in regards to your post about how some "Southern" values are not unique to the South. I'm saying just because somebody else might share your values doesn't mean you don't still feel like they're part of your identity.
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Sep 23, 2009, 05:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
It was in regards to your post about how some "Southern" values are not unique to the South. I'm saying just because somebody else might share your values doesn't mean you don't still feel like they're part of your identity.
Wrong!

I ASKED a question inquiring if there were some values unique to the South? I never said there were, or were not, values unique to the South. I simply asked if someone could provide a list of what values they thought were typically "Southern" as the theme of this argument--as it relates to flying the Confederate flag--and Jawbone54's point in particular, is that there are certain values that can be identified as "Southern". And those "Southern" values instill a sense of "southern pride" (Jawbone54's phrase) in people.

So I would like to know what values people would articulate as being uniquely Southern. Or, to phrase my question in another way,
What values exist such that the particular manifestation of these values in the South makes them different enough to be called "Southern" values, as opposed to just regular old values?

In other words, if people everywhere in the US hold value X, what makes the particular manifestation of value X different in the South such that it needs to be identified as a "Southern" value X, and not just value X?
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Sep 24, 2009, 08:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
Probably not the best example, since he was the President of the Confederacy and all. I think people flocking to his library for the history are probably well aware of his connection to racism. But they can still be interested in the history. I have no objections to flying the flag as a historical artifact or a symbol representing the CSA.

As I mentioned before, Davis featured slavery as the primary "right" which was felt to be under attack when he made his farewell speech on the floor of the Senate (hopefully this is mentioned in his library):
When you see people visiting Beauvior, they're not doing it for the link between Jeff Davis and slavery. They're doing it for the historical significance of the man and his old home, which is specifically what I was trying to point out. When people visit Gettysburg, they're not doing so to look at a particularly unproductive piece of farm land, they're going there for the history too. Knowing about the links between the Confederacy and slavery is not at all the same as endorsing those ideas that SOME Confederates held. There's a lot of evidence, for example, that Texas did not want to be part of the CSA, but seceded in sympathy; Texas was one of the few states that had decent cash flow without complete dependence on agriculture based on intensive human labor, but the leaders of Texas at the time felt themselves bound by principle to secede-one of several instances of states' leaders acting on principle but not logic, law or ethics.

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Sep 24, 2009, 09:09 AM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
When you see people visiting Beauvior, they're not doing it for the link between Jeff Davis and slavery. They're doing it for the historical significance of the man and his old home, which is specifically what I was trying to point out. When people visit Gettysburg, they're not doing so to look at a particularly unproductive piece of farm land, they're going there for the history too. Knowing about the links between the Confederacy and slavery is not at all the same as endorsing those ideas that SOME Confederates held.
Right. That's part of what I was trying to say. As I mentioned, I have no objection to flying the flag as a historical artifact. I wouldn't freak out if I saw Nazi paraphernalia in a museum, either.

But I can't help associate slavery as the dominant organizing economic and social feature of the Confederacy, as well as the dominant rationale cited by secessionist leaders in forming the Confederacy (even Texas), and so if I see some guy flying the flag at his house out of "pride" I have to think he's being unnecessarily insensitive.
( Last edited by SpaceMonkey; Sep 24, 2009 at 09:28 AM. )

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Sep 24, 2009, 10:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy View Post
Jawbone54 mentioned some descriptions of what he thought were indicators of behavior typical of Southern pride ("family-based, down-to-earth, neighborly values") but I fail to see how these traits are unique to the South? Is this statement supposed to imply that Northerners a) do not have these traits or b) are not as "family-based [and] down-to-earth" as Southerners?

And his description is still quite vague. What are the specific traits/behaviors/attitudes that define being "family-based, down-to-earth, [and having] neighborly values"? What does a Southerner actually *do* to earn the description of being "family-based, down-to-earth, [and having] neighborly values"?
It's not always something that's easily quantifiable, but I'll give you one example.

Down here in Virginia, when you pass someone on the street, you say hello. Or maybe you just smile. But you look at the person and acknowledge their existence.

I just spent a weekend in Princeton, NJ. Walking down the street there people don't even make eye contact. I saw a woman that I thought was looking at me and I said hello, and she gave me the strangest look I've ever seen.

There is such a thing as southern hospitality, and it is something that we're quite proud of.

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Sep 24, 2009, 10:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
the leaders of Texas at the time felt themselves bound by principle to secede-one of several instances of states' leaders acting on principle but not logic, law or ethics.
And this is something to take pride in? Acting on "principle" over logic, law and ethics to take a nation to war to defend the right to own slaves? Acting immorally on "principle" does not magically make your actions moral.
     
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Sep 24, 2009, 12:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy View Post
Wrong!

I ASKED a question inquiring if there were some values unique to the South? I never said there were, or were not, values unique to the South. I simply asked if someone could provide a list of what values they thought were typically "Southern" as the theme of this argument--as it relates to flying the Confederate flag--and Jawbone54's point in particular, is that there are certain values that can be identified as "Southern". And those "Southern" values instill a sense of "southern pride" (Jawbone54's phrase) in people.

So I would like to know what values people would articulate as being uniquely Southern. Or, to phrase my question in another way,
What values exist such that the particular manifestation of these values in the South makes them different enough to be called "Southern" values, as opposed to just regular old values?

In other words, if people everywhere in the US hold value X, what makes the particular manifestation of value X different in the South such that it needs to be identified as a "Southern" value X, and not just value X?
You said "traits/behaviors/attitudes that are indicative of Southern Pride," and then implied that they would have to be 100% unique to the South, and I was explaining why that seems like an unfounded idea.

This new question is probably impossible. The odds that any idea wouldn't be shared by somebody else somewhere are astronomical with 6 billion people on the planet. They can still be an integral part of the Southern identity, though. There are ideals considered "Christian values" and "Buddhist values" without necessarily being 100% unique to those groups.
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Sep 24, 2009, 12:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy View Post
So I would like to know what values people would articulate as being uniquely Southern. Or, to phrase my question in another way,
What values exist such that the particular manifestation of these values in the South makes them different enough to be called "Southern" values, as opposed to just regular old values?

In other words, if people everywhere in the US hold value X, what makes the particular manifestation of value X different in the South such that it needs to be identified as a "Southern" value X, and not just value X?
We can't talk about a culture's values and then seek a single value which defines that culture.

Everyone in the US may hold value X, but perhaps southerners hold X-Y-J-K-G-H rather than the X-Y-S-K-U-H held by northerners. It's like genetics, but cultural.

For example, there may be the odd Englishman who likes getting it on with sheep. There may be the odd Englishman who likes to talk a lot. There may be the odd Englishman who likes working underground. But take those traits together, you're Welsh.
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Sep 24, 2009, 12:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
We can't talk about a culture's values and then seek a single value which defines that culture.

Everyone in the US may hold value X, but perhaps southerners hold X-Y-J-K-G-H rather than the X-Y-S-K-U-H held by northerners. It's like genetics, but cultural.
OK, so what you're saying is that some values are held by all while some values are held by specific groups. That's an interesting point.


Following on Doofy's observation, can someone provide me a list of values held by Southerners that are not held by Northerners.

Let's say Southerners hold values A-B-C-F-Q-Z and Northerners hold values A-B-D-F-P-Z. What are examples of those values C and Q held by Southerners that are not held by Northerner? Specifics please.
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Sep 24, 2009, 12:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by jokell82 View Post
Down here in Virginia, when you pass someone on the street, you say hello. Or maybe you just smile. But you look at the person and acknowledge their existence.
So going down a street in the South is like walking into an infinite amount of Wal•Marts with their greeters?

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Sep 24, 2009, 12:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
So going down a street in the South is like walking into an infinite amount of Wal•Marts with their greeters?

I suddenly know what hell will be like when I die.
Whilst watching this vid the other day, I noticed that the driver passes three cyclists (starting about 5:40). Not a wave in sight from the first three. Here, in that situation, they'd put a hand up in acknowledgement of the presence of their fellow man. Unless one party was a Mercedes driver.

Since I assume that southerners do say hi and wave at each other, there's one for DC's example set of southern values: "not ignorant b@stards".
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CRASH HARDDRIVE
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Sep 24, 2009, 12:52 PM
 
Geeze, some people need to get out of their mom's basements more often.
     
CRASH HARDDRIVE
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Sep 24, 2009, 12:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy View Post
Following on Doofy's observation, can someone provide me a list of values held by Southerners that are not held by Northerners.

Let's say Southerners hold values A-B-C-F-Q-Z and Northerners hold values A-B-D-F-P-Z. What are examples of those values C and Q held by Southerners that are not held by Northerner? Specifics please.


Here's an idea: if you're really so interested in southerners -or anyone else- get off your rear end, get out of the basement, and go VISIT the south, open your eyes, and turn on your brain.

Or... keep asking the same lameless over and over again.

I mean, really, I can only conclude that people that are astonished to find out that, yes Virginia (heh, irony) there are differences in people and places, have NEVER BEEN ANYWHERE. This is like a discussion a parent has with a two year old.
     
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Sep 24, 2009, 01:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by jokell82 View Post
It's not always something that's easily quantifiable, but I'll give you one example.

Down here in Virginia, when you pass someone on the street, you say hello. Or maybe you just smile. But you look at the person and acknowledge their existence.

I just spent a weekend in Princeton, NJ. Walking down the street there people don't even make eye contact. I saw a woman that I thought was looking at me and I said hello, and she gave me the strangest look I've ever seen.

There is such a thing as southern hospitality, and it is something that we're quite proud of.
I've also found this to be true in the South. But again, African-Americans in the South do this as well. Yet they overwhelmingly do not support the Confederate flag. So please explain how the Confederate flag is a symbol of "Southern pride" again? Or is the viewpoint of Southern rednecks who promote the Confederate flag the only one that matters?

OAW
     
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Sep 24, 2009, 01:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Whilst watching this vid the other day, I noticed that the driver passes three cyclists (starting about 5:40). Not a wave in sight from the first three. Here, in that situation, they'd put a hand up in acknowledgement of the presence of their fellow man. Unless one party was a Mercedes driver.

Since I assume that southerners do say hi and wave at each other, there's one for DC's example set of southern values: "not ignorant b@stards".
Doofy, how does a video taking place in Colorado, which you then compare to a similar experience in the UK, lead you to make an assumption about behaviors in the Southern US?

And what would make you assume that Southerners "do say hi and wave at each other" i the first place? Do you have first-hand experience of being in the American South? Do you have first-hand experience of being elsewhere in the Us and not having people behave the same way as they do in the South?
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Sep 24, 2009, 01:04 PM
 
How come we never say hi and wave to each other here on this forum? I don't think anybody has ever said hi to me...
     
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Sep 24, 2009, 01:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Whilst watching this vid the other day, I noticed that the driver passes three cyclists (starting about 5:40). Not a wave in sight from the first three. Here, in that situation, they'd put a hand up in acknowledgement of the presence of their fellow man. Unless one party was a Mercedes driver.
In the United States, there is a cold war between cyclists and drivers that occasionally becomes "hot" and results in bloodshed. I am only sort of joking.

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Sep 24, 2009, 01:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
In the United States, there is a cold war between cyclists and drivers that occasionally becomes "hot" and results in bloodshed. I am only sort of joking.
Ahhh.

Is this war all over, or limited to the north?
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Sep 24, 2009, 01:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy View Post
Doofy, how does a video taking place in Colorado, which you then compare to a similar experience in the UK, lead you to make an assumption about behaviors in the Southern US?

And what would make you assume that Southerners "do say hi and wave at each other" i the first place?
I'm taking jokell at his word and extrapolating.

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy View Post
Do you have first-hand experience of being in the American South? Do you have first-hand experience of being elsewhere in the Us and not having people behave the same way as they do in the South?
Yes, yes and no. But then, I'm English, so everyone in the US tends to want to get into my pants say hi.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
CharlesS
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Sep 24, 2009, 04:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Whilst watching this vid the other day, I noticed that the driver passes three cyclists (starting about 5:40). Not a wave in sight from the first three. Here, in that situation, they'd put a hand up in acknowledgement of the presence of their fellow man. Unless one party was a Mercedes driver.

Since I assume that southerners do say hi and wave at each other, there's one for DC's example set of southern values: "not ignorant b@stards".
The reason you think there wasn't any interaction is because the audio track on that video has been replaced with that musical dub-over, so you can't hear the part where the motorist laid the horn down continuously for five seconds and shouted "SIDEWALK! **** YOU!" as he passed the cyclist.

You'll sure as hell never get me to wave at every motorist that goes by.

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Sep 24, 2009, 09:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by Paco500 View Post
And this is something to take pride in? Acting on "principle" over logic, law and ethics to take a nation to war to defend the right to own slaves? Acting immorally on "principle" does not magically make your actions moral.
Back then they thought so. It's something that "Southern Gentlemen" prided themselves in. Today's ideas about this are quite different, of course. But the concept of actually HAVING principles and acting on them, rather than being just another sheep is a good one that needs emphasis, especially today. Most people I talk to who mention "Southern heritage" are quick to point out that principles and honor are different facets of ethical behavior, and that you can't have either without a solid basis in the facts of a situation, and of course the legalities of it.

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Jul 17, 2012, 12:39 PM
 
Why does it bother you? Do you not know anything about history? The civil war had nothing to do with slavery. The war was about the unfair taxation or the southern Scots and Irish...why do you think the Rebel Battle Flag is a tribute to the Scottish Cross of Saint Andrews? History is written and re-written by the winners and Liberal revisionist scum have rewritten history to their favor.
The battle of Kentucky in 1857 is what really started the what is now called "The Civil War". The Southern Scots lived in self sufficient bliss and had no use for the new countries laws, currency and taxes and viciously apposed being annexed. Their currency was sheep and whiskey, you know, barter and trade? That's haw they wanted to live but the northern English filth would have none of it. The Northern city dwellers marches into the south taxing and stealing everything they could.
War started in 1857, South Carolina started the secession of states in 1861 and it wasn't until 1863 when Lincoln, in and effort to cripple The South's ability to grow food and maintain commerce, "freed" the slaves. But, if you actually READ the Emancipation Proclamation, only the Confederate slaves were freed in ten states. It wasn't until the 13 amendment was adopted on December 6, 1865 that the slaves were really freed and that was well after fighting had stopped.
     
subego
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Jul 17, 2012, 12:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
How come we never say hi and wave to each other here on this forum? I don't think anybody has ever said hi to me...
Hi.
     
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Jul 17, 2012, 01:01 PM
 
ZOMBIE THREAD~!!!!!
     
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Jul 17, 2012, 06:28 PM
 
Angry Zombie Thread, at that.
Sheesh.
     
lpkmckenna
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Jul 17, 2012, 07:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by Slagwhore View Post
Why does it bother you? Do you not know anything about history? The civil war had nothing to do with slavery. The war was about the unfair taxation or the southern Scots and Irish...why do you think the Rebel Battle Flag is a tribute to the Scottish Cross of Saint Andrews? History is written and re-written by the winners and Liberal revisionist scum have rewritten history to their favor.
The battle of Kentucky in 1857 is what really started the what is now called "The Civil War". The Southern Scots lived in self sufficient bliss and had no use for the new countries laws, currency and taxes and viciously apposed being annexed. Their currency was sheep and whiskey, you know, barter and trade? That's haw they wanted to live but the northern English filth would have none of it. The Northern city dwellers marches into the south taxing and stealing everything they could.
War started in 1857, South Carolina started the secession of states in 1861 and it wasn't until 1863 when Lincoln, in and effort to cripple The South's ability to grow food and maintain commerce, "freed" the slaves. But, if you actually READ the Emancipation Proclamation, only the Confederate slaves were freed in ten states. It wasn't until the 13 amendment was adopted on December 6, 1865 that the slaves were really freed and that was well after fighting had stopped.
Neo-confederates are the most revolting form of life, just below cockroaches.
     
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Jul 18, 2012, 03:09 AM
 
It appears that zombies don't seem to be able to conceive of interpretations of certain images and impressions that are different from theirs. "Oppression of the Scotch-Irish through unfair taxation?" Really now...

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
 
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