[Busemann]

Originally Posted by starman

Huh? Never heard of it.

It came bundled with all Euro and Asia consoles.

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Originally Posted by Dakar

Gimme a list, then.

Games, music, web surfing, IM, watching movies, email.

What are the most common things to do with a computer?

Games, music, web surfing, IM, watching movies, email.

Originally Posted by Dakar

For how long?

Mmm, lets say 2 years. That's 7 years longer than the Wii which is 5 years behind in terms of graphics the day it comes out.

Originally Posted by Dakar

You might have me there. Depends how much Blu-ray titles are when they come out.
But then again, what's the point for the average person who doesn't own an HDTV?

You really want to see the sales of HDTV's again? The numbers are extraordinarily high and climbing higher than they expected. Actually as of a year ago there are more HDTV owners than Gamecube owners (so are you saying nobody has a gamecube?). You might want to ask television shows why they bother making 99% of all prime time shows in HD if the average home doesn't own an HDTV.
Not to mention Nintendo demo'd the Wii ONLY on HDTV's. Blue ray isn't just for better picture either, it is storage. You can have an entire 7 seasons of one show on one disk.

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by Socially Awkward Solo

Games, music, web surfing, IM, watching movies, email.

What are the most common things to do with a computer?

Games, music, web surfing, IM, watching movies, email.

Oh goody. Stuff I already do on the computer I already own.

Originally Posted by Socially Awkward Solo

Mmm, lets say 2 years. That's 7 years longer than the Wii which is 5 years behind in terms of graphics the day it comes out.

Yeah, but this ain't about the Wii.

Originally Posted by Socially Awkward Solo

You really want to see the sales of HDTV's again? The numbers are extraordinarily high and climbing higher than they expected. Actually as of a year ago there are more HDTV owners than Gamecube owners (so are you saying nobody has a gamecube?).

Again, I'm not talking about GameCube. But yeah, I don't think there was a GameCube in a staggering amount of homes.

Originally Posted by Socially Awkward Solo

You might want to ask television shows why they bother making 99% of all prime time shows in HD if the average home doesn't own an HDTV.

Future sales? To give people a REASON to switch?

Originally Posted by Socially Awkward Solo

Blue ray isn't just for better picture either, it is storage. You can have an entire 7 seasons of one show on one disk.

That's awesome. But I ain't gonna pay a premium just to save shelf space.

[Hal06]

So… are going SONY developer kits be cheaper now?

[Hawkeye_a]

Iv read somewhere that the dev kits foe the Wii are cheaper than the dev kits for the PSP.

Oh the "issue" of HD players.... who cares if your getting it at a better price ? ....how many gamers (most of whom dont have HD displayers) would want to pay for it now ?

Its like saying the XBox/Wii will come with a next gen toaster that makes the best toast and, it'll cost $600.

[goMac]

Maybe the bigger question is why would I want to re-purchase the titles I own on high definition disk? It's not like I have to be have a PS3 to play new titles. I can buy current titles and play them just fine on my DVD player without having to drop $600 on a PS3. Why would I drop $600 on a PS3 when I can just play new titles with the player I have?

The PS3 gives no reason to upgrade to Bluray. It's a horrible selling point.

[TETENAL]

I'm pretty sure BlueRay players can play regular DVDs and CDs as well. Wouldn't make much sense otherwise.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

I'm pretty sure BlueRay players can play regular DVDs and CDs as well. Wouldn't make much sense otherwise.

So the question becomes, why do I need a Bluray player to play my DVD's?

[TETENAL]

If you have an HD television and a BlueRay player or Playstation 3, then from then on you want to purchase high definition movies instead of regular DVDs to make use of your expensive setup. Sony speculates that within the lifetime of the console more people will have HD televisions the the Playstation therefore becomes more attractive than the SD competition. I myself plan to purchase an HD television set in 5 years, and I will pick up a PS3 for €150 with it.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

If you have an HD television and a BlueRay player or Playstation 3, then from then on you want to purchase high definition movies instead of regular DVDs to make use of your expensive setup. Sony speculates that within the lifetime of the console more people will have HD televisions the the Playstation therefore becomes more attractive than the SD competition. I myself plan to purchase an HD television set in 5 years, and I will pick up a PS3 for €150 with it.

Why would I want to pay $600 now to play high dev movies later? If where titles that I could only get on high def, maybe I'd consider it. But I can continue buying movies without having to pay the $600 Sony tax. I plan on getting an HD set for my next set too, but I don't plan on buying a high def player for my next player, simply because I want something nice for the next 5 years that won't get cut of in the HD cut off date. The only HD device I plan on getting is the XBox 360.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by goMac

Why would I want to pay $600 now to play high dev movies later?

I didn't say "now", I said in five years when HD-TVs are affordable and the price of the PS3 dropped to €150.

Notice how the PS and PS2 had a 5 years lifespan. Sony is planning ahead with the PS3. In 5 years when Microsoft and Nintendo have to develop yet another console generation for the HD demand that might be there at that time, Sony is already there. That is the time when they will cash in.

[goMac]

God, Sony is at it again:

"PS3 Could Allow Users to Install OS X"
http://www.macobserver.com/article/2006/06/09.5.shtml

Funny, maybe someone should tell Sony how Apple would not appreciate this.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

I didn't say "now", I said in five years when HD-TVs are affordable and the price of the PS3 dropped to €150.

Notice how the PS and PS2 had a 5 years lifespan. Sony is planning ahead with the PS3. In 5 years when Microsoft and Nintendo have to develop yet another console generation for the HD demand that might be there at that time, Sony is already there. That is the time when they will cash in.

I really doubt the PS3 will be around in 5 years. Sony has said that with every other console, and it's never been true. The GPU in the PS3 will be horrible 5 years from now, and you can bet we'll see another Playstation by then.

[Hawkeye_a]

I read a Kutaragi(or whatever)....interview where he's positioning it more as a PC as well...and the *idea* of regularily upgrading the platform has crossed their minds. so imagine a "new" PS3 coming out every year with better graphics card and CPU...faster drive, etc.

Not too appealing to me, cause when i buy a gaming console its an investment for 3-5 years and thats the end of the story. the prosect of upgrades might suit PCs and hardcore gamers, but not me.

Cheers

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

I read a Kutaragi(or whatever)....interview where he's positioning it more as a PC as well...and the *idea* of regularily upgrading the platform has crossed their minds. so imagine a "new" PS3 coming out every year with better graphics card and CPU...faster drive, etc.

And magically they'll also claim the PS3 is built to last five years, while they keep upgrading it and the game requirements get higher!

Sony's marketing department at it's best.

[Busemann]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

I read a Kutaragi(or whatever)....interview where he's positioning it more as a PC as well...and the *idea* of regularily upgrading the platform has crossed their minds. so imagine a "new" PS3 coming out every year with better graphics card and CPU...faster drive, etc.

Not too appealing to me, cause when i buy a gaming console its an investment for 3-5 years and thats the end of the story. the prosect of upgrades might suit PCs and hardcore gamers, but not me.

Cheers

They'll no doubt update the HD every year, since 60GB doesn't give a lot of headroom. They'll also fine-tune [ie: re-work] the motherboards within the system to reduce the size and/or costs or going to a smaller die size in order to cut costs & reduce heat, etc... (Nintendo did this 3x with the Gamecube, Sony 12x with the PS2 and Microsoft 7x with the original Xbox). They'll probably update the BluRay drive as well, so that it can burn discs. What I doubt they'll do is change the specs of its core components (The Cell and RSX) so that users will be forced to upgrade. But at this stage no one knows.

And magically they'll also claim the PS3 is built to last five years, while they keep upgrading it and the game requirements get higher!

Sony's marketing department at it's best.

Even if I doubt Sony will actually do this--they often pitch new ideas prior to the launches just to get feedback and gauge consumer reaction--it has been done before. With the Nintendo 64, you had to get extra RAM in order to play games like Perfect Dark.

I really doubt the PS3 will be around in 5 years. Sony has said that with every other console, and it's never been true.

Of course it'll be around five years from now. The PSone had a shelf life of close to ten years, and the PS2 is still selling extremely well even six years after launch. If history serves as a lesson, then the PS4 is 6 years away at the earliest

[Hal06]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

Iv read somewhere that the dev kits foe the Wii are cheaper than the dev kits for the PSP

One can access to Wii dev kits for 1/10 the cost of PS3 or xbox360 dev kits.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Busemann

Of course it'll be around five years from now. The PSone had a shelf life of close to ten years, and the PS2 is still selling extremely well even six years after launch. If history serves as a lesson, then the PS4 is 6 years away at the earliest

Shelf life? That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about how long before it's replacement is put out on the market. I still see N64's for sale at some places. That doesn't mean I consider the n64 alive and kicking.

[goMac]

Square Enix has noted that ports from XBox 360 or PC to the PS3 could take almost take 3 years.

http://videogames.yahoo.com/newsarti...=452561&page=0

[mdc]

would it be possible to please copy that article here? Game related websites are blocked here at work, and i'm dying of boredom for the next 2 hours.

[Chuckit]

That isn't quite what he said. He said the Xbox 360's operating system is similar enough to Windows that Windows games can be quickly ported to the Xbox 360. This isn't to say that the PS3 is any harder to port to than anything else — just that it isn't running Windows.

The text of the article:

Japanese news site Impress reports that Final Fantasy XI development team leaders let slip some tidbits on their next-gen plans. While talking up Treasures of Aht Urhgan--the game's latest expansion--FFXI producer Hiromichi Tanaka commented that his team is now working on a new massively multiplayer online role-playing game for Windows Vista and the PlayStation 3. He also shared his thoughts on porting games to new hardware, including bringing FFXI to the PS3 as well as the PlayStation Portable.
Tanaka didn't provide any details on his as-yet untitled game for Vista and the PS3, perhaps holding something back for a formal announcement at E3 in May. However, he did make some interesting comments about developing for the Xbox 360 versus the PlayStation 3.
The Xbox 360 operating system shares enough similarities with Windows, he said, so that porting the Windows version of FFXI to the 360 was a fairly quick task. A PS3 version of FFXI, on the other hand, would require redeveloping the game almost from scratch, a process that Tanaka estimated would take two or three years.
As a result, FFXI will emphatically not be a launch title for the PS3. In fact, Tanaka did not commit to bringing out FFXI for the PS3 at any time. He feels that the resources required to port the game to the PS3 might be better invested in a new game that's built from the ground up for next-gen hardware--but his team has yet to make a final decision one way or another.
Asked about FFXI on the PSP, Tanaka notes that although a fully playable version of the game is probably not realistic, he could envision enabling some functions--such as auctions and chat--for PSP users. However, his team has not had time to work on a handheld version of the game, and without evidence of overwhelming user demand, it seems unlikely that it will happen.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

That isn't quite what he said. He said the Xbox 360's operating system is similar enough to Windows that Windows games can be quickly ported to the Xbox 360. This isn't to say that the PS3 is any harder to port to than anything else — just that it isn't running Windows.

The text of the article:

I'm not sure that's quite the reasoning he has. A DirectX -> OpenGL port (which is essentially what you had to do for XBox->Playstation before) doesn't really take that long. I mean, most students in game programming have to build engines in both DirectX and OpenGL for their assignments. Not to trivialize it, but it isn't that hard. I got more of a feeling it was an issue with the Cell. I think he was pointing out how easy moving from PC to XBox is, in contrast of moving from XBox to PS3, but he wasn't saying that Windows was the main factor.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by goMac

he wasn't saying that Windows was the main factor.

I think you lack reading comprehension.

The Xbox 360 operating system shares enough similarities with Windows, he said

[goMac]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

I think you lack reading comprehension.

Right. He was saying that moving from the PC to XBox 360 was fairly quick due to both using Windows. No where does he say that moving from PC to PS3 is slow because it does not use Windows.

You wouldn't redesign a game from scratch just because you are moving operating systems. XBox 1 games which were based on Windows were very quick ports to both the Gamecube, PS2 and even the Mac in some cases. It's very heavily implied that the overall design of the PS3 is to blame. Otherwise his comments make very little sense.

[Hawkeye_a]

Porting games. I do programming in OpenGL (OSX, Solaris, Windows)...and im ASSUMING that game developers do the same. game engines are designed over basic APIs such as OpenGL and DirectX, which makes porting *easier*. Seeing as how OpenGL libraries have been ported to almost any processor/OS it's all a matter of getting the basic framework optomized for a particular hardware/os platform.

SO if the Cell/PS3 OS is so radically different from anything before.....everything from the kernels, APIs and upwards needs to be recoded to make it work..or work well. If thats the case.....and Sony hasnt done that already through theyre dev kits..... theyre idiots.

Personally, i think the PS3 dev kits are expensive cause they have made the appropriate APIs available for their "special" hardware.

Porting games from XB360-> PC....its going from PPC->Intel. remember how big an issue this was a few years ago ? now it's like the hardware layer is almost oblivious to developers cause the APIs are all the same....and in my opinion, thats how it sould be.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

Porting games. I do programming in OpenGL (OSX, Solaris, Windows)...and im ASSUMING that game developers do the same. game engines are designed over basic APIs such as OpenGL and DirectX, which makes porting *easier*. Seeing as how OpenGL libraries have been ported to almost any processor/OS it's all a matter of getting the basic framework optomized for a particular hardware/os platform.

I do too but I wasn't about to play that card.

[Obi Wan's Ghost]

goMac still believes he is an Open GL programmer.

After two years or something of these claims have you any apps we can test drive?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Obi Wan's Ghost

goMac still believes he is an Open GL programmer.

After two years or something of these claims have you any apps we can test drive?

...and this is why.

It's not like OpenGL is hard.

[goMac]

Take this with as much salt as needed:

http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/sony/mo...way-179863.php

[Obi Wan's Ghost]

Originally Posted by goMac

It's not like OpenGL is hard.

Did you finish the spinning cube tutorial yet or were you distracted by The Islamo-Icelandic Theory of the White Alien Shape Shifting Jews Who Should Leave Israel ?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Obi Wan's Ghost

Did you finish the spinning cube tutorial yet or were you distracted by The Islamo-Icelandic Theory of the White Alien Shape Shifting Jews Who Should Leave Israel ?

I actually did it for class. You know... academic training... degree earning... learning from professors...

Where do you think this argument is going to get you? Are you some OpenGL expert?

[Obi Wan's Ghost]

How the story changes.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

I do programming in OpenGL.

Originally Posted by goMac

I do too.

Originally Posted by goMac

I actually did it for class.

Sounds about as likely as your knowledge of Jewish history.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Obi Wan's Ghost

How the story changes.

What the hell are you talking about? I do OpenGL sometimes on my own. I do OpenGL for academics.

Is there something you're trying to prove here? I'd like to hear your working knowledge of OpenGL. Are you some sort of programmer, or just a person who'd like to think they know as much about OpenGL as one?

[Obi Wan's Ghost]

This I do not call Open GL programming but I now understand how you come up with White Alien Jew Theory™ and why you threaten to sue members of this forum from time to time. Desperate to feel superior.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Obi Wan's Ghost

This I do not call Open GL programming but I now understand how you come up with White Alien Jew Theory™ and why you threaten to sue members of this forum from time to time. Desperate to feel superior.

Huh? I don't recall I've ever threatened to sue anyone here. I think you need to take five minutes to get your facts straight. And I have no idea what this "White Alien Jew Theory" is about. You probably have me mixed up with another member of these forums. Threatening to sue people just isn't my style.

You know what they say about arguing on the internet...

[Obi Wan's Ghost]

Originally Posted by goMac

Huh? I don't recall I've ever threatened to sue anyone here. I think you need to take five minutes to get your facts straight. And I have no idea what this "White Alien Jew Theory" is about. You probably have me mixed up with another member of these forums. Threatening to sue people just isn't my style.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Obi Wan's Ghost

Seriously, you're wasting my time. I'm not arguing this with you anymore. Good night.

[Hawkeye_a]

Jeeze...quit your bickering and BS....both of you.

Im really starting to like what i see of that new Rayman game. (http://media.wii.ign.com/media/821/821585/vids_1.html ). It looks so random/weird and light headed.... worth a look at imo.

Cheers

[Hawkeye_a]

Gamecube vs Wii ..... visually....



GCN X 2 ??!?! looks like more imo.

Cheers

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by goMac

Right. He was saying that moving from the PC to XBox 360 was fairly quick due to both using Windows. No where does he say that moving from PC to PS3 is slow because it does not use Windows.

No, but there's nothing that indicates it's anything else. Just from what he said, we can take it that FFXI is a hard game to port, but it was made easier by the 360's familiar APIs. Extrapolating further isn't really justified.

Originally Posted by goMac

You wouldn't redesign a game from scratch just because you are moving operating systems. XBox 1 games which were based on Windows were very quick ports to both the Gamecube, PS2 and even the Mac in some cases. It's very heavily implied that the overall design of the PS3 is to blame. Otherwise his comments make very little sense.

Right, because C++ code for one processor usually looks insanely different than C++ code for another processor.

Or, actually, it doesn't. There's generally a bigger difference from using completely different system libraries (see: Carbon apps run on Intel and PPC Macs, but they won't run on Windows even using the same hardware).

[starman]

Wow, I ignore the boards for the weekend and goMac yet again proves he knows nothing.

[Busemann]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

Why are Link and Mario standing in front of empty backgrounds on the GC? Seems to me they picked out the worst pics they could find on the GC just to make Wii look better than it is. In any case, developers with access to the Wii tools say it is somewhere between GC and Xbox in terms of performance.

[Hawkeye_a]

really ? ive read that developers are calling it a "souped up XBox"

[starman]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

really ? ive read that developers are calling it a "souped up XBox"

Really? I thought "graphics didn't matter".

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by starman

Really? I thought "graphics didn't matter".

Why would YOU say graphics dont matter ? your one of the biggest graphic&power whore on these boards.

What I feel is that grpahics and power matter as much as every other ingredient in games....the major one being control. something neither Microsoft nor Sony seem to want to invest their resources, time or effort into developing.

[Busemann]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

What I feel is that grpahics and power matter as much as every other ingredient in games....the major one being control. something neither Microsoft or Sony seem to want to invest their resources, time or effort into developing.

What makes you say that? The 360 controller is probably one of the most comfortable controllers ever made, and Sony has most definitely spent lots of time and resources on the new motion sensing controller, of which the first patent dates back to '99. And "graphics and power" are more than pretty pictures anyways. If it weren't for the increased performance the last generation gave us, games like Rez, Ico, Metroid Prime & Halo would be inconceivable.

[Hawkeye_a]

And who do you give credit to for...
-2 handed controllers
-direction pad
-shoulder buttons
-analog sticks
-wireless conrollers
-rumble
-direct pointing device

Graphics have been improved on every system. some over emphasize it and belittle the very nature of [b]interactive[b] systems.... thankfully Nintendo isnt one of them. If all i want is graphics and visual entertainment ...ill rent out Incredibles or Finding Nemo.

And as far as Sony's "motion sensing"...funny how after a period of 6-7 years (as you and probably they claim) ...they only had one game to show that included it. The warhawk (or whatever ) demo that used it sucked by the way....the ship was all over the place...and the guy controlling it looked like a guy hgh on coke on a dance floor.

[starman]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

Why would YOU say graphics dont matter ? your one of the biggest graphic&power whore on these boards.

What I feel is that grpahics and power matter as much as every other ingredient in games....the major one being control. something neither Microsoft nor Sony seem to want to invest their resources, time or effort into developing.

You are FULL OF SH*T.

Had Nintendo not come out with the Wii controller you would NOT be making that statement.

[starman]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

And who do you give credit to for...
-2 handed controllers
-direction pad
-shoulder buttons
-analog sticks
-wireless conrollers
-rumble
-direct pointing device

Nintendo
Atari, technically
Nintendo
Odyssey 2
Atari
Nintendo
Xerox

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

Why would YOU say graphics dont matter ? your one of the biggest graphic&power whore on these boards.

I'm pretty sure he's just mocking the boobs who have been saying this on MacNN for a while now.